Re: Brining - specifically chicken

[Guest guest]

:

>Will be defrosting a chicken. Nice approved free-roaming etc. In

>case none of you have noticed, these tend to be a bit tougher than your

>average Oven Stuffer Roaster. Was thinking I'd brine it before roasting

>it, but I'm not in the mood at the moment to do a lot of expensive

>experimenting.

This may be too late to be useful, but for next time:

I used to brine my chickens using 1 cup salt to about a gallon

of water, while it was thawing basically. Which worked.

But, then I discovered the " Chinese Chicken "

method and that works better. It's in the archives somewhere

but here it is again:

Chinese Chicken

First, take a chicken. It can still be frozen, but take the wrapper off. Put it

in a big stockpot of water with some salt and seasoning. Let it boil for a bit.

Meanwhile, toss some vegies (potato, onion, carrots are the classic mix, but any

vegies will do) with some olive oil, salt, and garlic. Bake them in your

roasting pan until they are almost done. You can use a high heat if you keep an

eye on them (about 400 degrees) and that will carmelize them nicely.

When the chicken is almost done, then take it out of the water and let it cool

for a bit. This is easiest if you use one of those Italian Spaghetti pots with

the insert, or you can use those new heat-proof silicon gloves. Just be careful

around all that hot water.

When the chicken is cool enough to work with, carefully butterfly it and lay it

over the vegies. Return the pan to the oven and roast until the skin is nice and

crispy and the chicken is done.

You can put the giblets back in the boiling stock, and the bones after you eat

the chicken, and boil some more to make a nice soup stock for later. Also add

the drippings from the roasting pan ... those vegie juices taste great. Strain

the stock and store in the fridge or your freezer for making quick soup.

You can use this recipe on any poultry. Goose works well this way. Since I don’t

have a pot big enough for a whole goose, I lay it in a long roasting pan on top

of the stove, about half in some water, covered with foil, and cook it that way.

Also I cook it whole, without butterflying it (goose is too hard to cut).

-----------------------------

Since someone always asks " what is butterflying " -- a picture is in the Files

section.

Recently I discovered (in Joy of Cooking) that you can boil chicken parts,

dry them, and use them in French Fried chicken. I dipped them in batter

and fried 'em ... the family went nuts over them. Since the chicken is already

cooked you don't have to worry about them being " done " or not, and boiling

them makes the chicken really juicy and flavorful.

Fried chicken seems so, so, " fast foodish " but since the

family misses KFC it seems worth it. I did some flounder fillets and

potatoes while I was at it and had fish and chips too.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

At 12:25 PM 3/15/04 -0800, you wrote:

>This may be too late to be useful, but for next time:

>

>I used to brine my chickens using 1 cup salt to about a gallon

>of water, while it was thawing basically. Which worked.

>But, then I discovered the " Chinese Chicken "

>method and that works better. It's in the archives somewhere

>but here it is again:

>

>Chinese Chicken

>First, take a chicken. It can still be frozen, but take the wrapper off.

Put it in a big stockpot of water with some salt and seasoning. Let it boil

for a bit.

Ah, Heidi, well on her way to becoming my new best friend. At least as

far as food and food prep goes

Not too late at all. Actually, a friend is supposed to be showing up to

visit sometime this week, and I haven't seen her in three years, AND she's

bringing her girlfriend SO I'll be the first to actually MEET the

girlfriend, and well, I started thinking about some of the " weird " foods I

eat now, and was trying to come up with something that would work for all

of us. ... your timing is excellent, as she's not here yet. Hehe.

So, got it, 1 c salt to one gal water. Excellent, thank you! The bit

about not having to defrost it first is spiffy too - sort of along the

lines of popping a frozen steak into the broiler and still having crispy

fat bits. It's the little tricks, ya know, that we luvs ya for!

And I definitely love any recipe that is written in such as way as to

include " remember to take the wrapper off first " . The use of the words

" some " , " buncha " , " lots " and ESPECIALLY " mix till it looks good and if it

doesn't, add more " are pretty much guaranteed to catch my culinary eye as

well.

*toodles off to put that frozen chicken, sans wrapper, into some salt water

- eh, the 'es will show up eventually, might as well have something

ready to feed*

MFJ

Any moment in which you feel like dancing is a perfect moment. Singing

works, too.

[Guest guest]

>Ah, Heidi, well on her way to becoming my new best friend. At least as

>far as food and food prep goes

Wait til my cookbook comes out ... <G>

>Not too late at all. Actually, a friend is supposed to be showing up to

>visit sometime this week, and I haven't seen her in three years, AND she's

>bringing her girlfriend SO I'll be the first to actually MEET the

>girlfriend, and well, I started thinking about some of the " weird " foods I

>eat now, and was trying to come up with something that would work for all

>of us. ... your timing is excellent, as she's not here yet. Hehe.

Yeah, serving old friends water bugs and raw steak probably

isn't a great idea (unless they are Asian).

>So, got it, 1 c salt to one gal water. Excellent, thank you! The bit

>about not having to defrost it first is spiffy too - sort of along the

>lines of popping a frozen steak into the broiler and still having crispy

>fat bits. It's the little tricks, ya know, that we luvs ya for!

Be sure you don't get the two mixed up ... " Chinese chicken " is

NOT brining! Brining you use the 1 cup salt to a gallon of water,

cold water, and only for an hour or maybe overnight. For Chinese

chicken you boil the bird, but you only use a *little* salt (as you

would for soup) and soup spices (poultry seasoning and garlic

powder are good). One reason I like Chinese chicken better

is you don't toss out the brine after (I hate to waste things,

and I'm not sure what salt does to the septic system and I

don't want it on the garden). When you get Peking Duck at

a good Chinese restaurant they basically use this approach ...

you get " free " soup out of the recipe.

And yeah, I'm basically a lazy cook. My problem with most

recipes is they have too much STUFF to do. It's like they

want to prove how much you need their recipe. My grandma

used to say German cookbooks were written for wives who

didn't have enough to do.

>And I definitely love any recipe that is written in such as way as to

>include " remember to take the wrapper off first " . The use of the words

> " some " , " buncha " , " lots " and ESPECIALLY " mix till it looks good and if it

>doesn't, add more " are pretty much guaranteed to catch my culinary eye as

>well.

Simple is good! I hate books that I have to interpret. Mine has lots

of pictures too.

BTW I thought about it after, and if you REALLY want to tenderize

a chicken you could try the " kefir soak " approach. That works

wonders for beef ... just put the beef in some kefir in the fridge

for a day (add salt/spices as desired). Kefir really tenderizes the meat,

to the point it falls apart if you leave it too long. Just plain milk is

supposed to work too, or buttermilk, or yogurt. However it is not

Kosher, in which case you should use kimchi juice.

I don't like to leave meat in plain brine for long unless it's

pretty strong brine (and hopefully with some acid too)

because of the bacterial issue. If buggies are growing in

it, I want them to be MY buggies!

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

At 03:24 PM 3/15/04 -0800, you wrote:

>>Ah, Heidi, well on her way to becoming my new best friend. At least as

>>far as food and food prep goes

>

>Wait til my cookbook comes out ... <G>

And I shall buy it by the dozens. <return g>

>Yeah, serving old friends water bugs and raw steak probably

>isn't a great idea (unless they are Asian).

I dunno, seems to work for Mike, but probably not for me. Maybe I just

need to cultivate a more eclectic group of friends.

>Be sure you don't get the two mixed up ... " Chinese chicken " is

>NOT brining!

Ah, but I would NEVER do that (mix up the two)! I try really REALLY hard

not to confuse my recipes too much. Although thanks for adding the " hour

or maybe overnight " part - chances are that without that caveat, I would

have stuck it in there for a couple three days and then been pissed because

it was too salty. ... As far as the Chinese chicken, I figure I'm

okay with the recipe as is, since I regularly boil chickens for cat food

(is that too faffy?), so I'm used to being careful about all that splashing.

So yeah, Chinese chicken is definitely on my list. AFTER the guests

leave. Well, maybe ... errr .... we'll see.

>And yeah, I'm basically a lazy cook. My problem with most

>recipes is they have too much STUFF to do. It's like they

>want to prove how much you need their recipe. My grandma

>used to say German cookbooks were written for wives who

>didn't have enough to do.

Well, the whole NT thing DOES provide more opportunities for lazy cooks,

too ... when you don't have to worry about whether it's " done enough " and

all. But that reminds me - HOW many people are you cooking for besides

yourself? DH and couple kids at least? Ages?

>BTW I thought about it after, and if you REALLY want to tenderize

>a chicken you could try the " kefir soak " approach. That works

>wonders for beef ... just put the beef in some kefir in the fridge

>for a day (add salt/spices as desired). Kefir really tenderizes the meat,

>to the point it falls apart if you leave it too long. Just plain milk is

>supposed to work too, or buttermilk, or yogurt. However it is not

>Kosher, in which case you should use kimchi juice.

Actually, before our conversation about tossing frozen steaks onto the

broiler pan, that's what I was doing. Pull a couple of pieces of steak

out of the freezer and plop them into some kefir. That way they were

always THERE when I had a hankerin' ... and so far the longest I've kept a

piece of beef in the fridge that way was two full weeks - it was fine (i.e.

smelled fine) and was VERY tender and didn't kill me or nuthin'! It's

my lazy way - what? Forgot to actually prepare something? Look!

Sprouts! Butter! Steak! Eggs!

>

>I don't like to leave meat in plain brine for long unless it's

>pretty strong brine (and hopefully with some acid too)

>because of the bacterial issue. If buggies are growing in

>it, I want them to be MY buggies!

Yah, right, and remind me to keep you updated on my own kefir-making

experimentations. LOL. I'm still hoping I haven't sent Mr.

into fainting fits on that one.

MFJ

Any moment in which you feel like dancing is a perfect moment. Singing

works, too.

[Guest guest]

> As far as the Chinese chicken, I figure I'm

>okay with the recipe as is, since I regularly boil chickens for cat food

>(is that too faffy?), so I'm used to being careful about all that splashing.

Most of the Mexican recipes start with " boil a chicken " (or some

other meat). Once in awhile I get a REALLY tough chicken (like,

a rooster) and boiling it is the way to go, then make tacos.

> So yeah, Chinese chicken is definitely on my list. AFTER the guests

>leave. Well, maybe ... errr .... we'll see.

Oh, it's a great one for guests. Makes a wonderful presentation

(see the picture in the Files section!).

>

>Well, the whole NT thing DOES provide more opportunities for lazy cooks,

>too ... when you don't have to worry about whether it's " done enough " and

>all. But that reminds me - HOW many people are you cooking for besides

>yourself? DH and couple kids at least? Ages?

The Korean cooking is lazy too ... cook (or not) some meat,

put some kimchi in little bowls, and everyone picks what they

want and puts in on rice. They also have this one that's like

a fondue ... you slice up meat and vegies, and the guests

poke it into hot broth in the middle of the table to cook it.

I usually just cook for my family (2 kids, hubby) but I also

cook for our company (until recently, 6 adults for lunch,

but now we are doing the WD so it's just salad).

>Actually, before our conversation about tossing frozen steaks onto the

>broiler pan, that's what I was doing. Pull a couple of pieces of steak

>out of the freezer and plop them into some kefir. That way they were

>always THERE when I had a hankerin' ... and so far the longest I've kept a

>piece of beef in the fridge that way was two full weeks - it was fine (i.e.

>smelled fine) and was VERY tender and didn't kill me or nuthin'! It's

>my lazy way - what? Forgot to actually prepare something? Look!

>Sprouts! Butter! Steak! Eggs!

Keeping some steak in kefir is a nice shortcut. Our steak at the moment

is too tender to bother (hence the broiling frozen steak). I like to

boil up a mess of short ribs and keep them in the fridge for a week,

then broil them with BBQ sauce as needed. Or a make up a couple

of lbs. of burger, same thing. " meat for the week " . Burger you

can make into tacos, spaghetti, chili, tostadas, whatever as needed.

If you keep a container of chopped onions and grated cheese too, dinner is

almost made ...

You can keep meat in kefir or vinegar or salty enough water forever, I think.

That was the

whole point about " corned beef " -- they took it on sea voyages. And

pickled herring. Kimchi traditionally has a fair amount of fish

or seafood in it, and it keeps fine.

>Yah, right, and remind me to keep you updated on my own kefir-making

>experimentations. LOL. I'm still hoping I haven't sent Mr.

>into fainting fits on that one.

??? I didn't know it was possible to shock Mr. . Unless

maybe you admitted to using margerine on soy toast <g>.

-- Heidi Jean