RE: Filippa//Iron/Zinc/food vs pills

[Guest guest]

Mike -

Firstly, thanks for your always wonderful and insightful posts.

<<It's just so incredibly easy to get iron from meats.>>

The problem seems to be us " ex-veggies " . I know several reformed vegetarians

who have iron absorption issues. But now I'm thinking that regardless of the

form it is taken in, if your body has difficulty absorbing it, then it's going

to have difficulty in whatever form.

<<spleen is much more concentrated in iron than even liver, so

you could easily eat a small serving of spleen and just forget about

the whole issue. Spleen is also a low-demand food you could probably

get practically for free>>>

Sounds good. Not sure if we can get them in Australia. Will ask the butcher.

<<<Don't sigh! 25g of raw liver everyday is far from a waste of time!

That's pretty serious nutrition! Look at it this way: 25g of beef liver has

about 1.7mg of iron. Suppose, for the sake of understanding how the numbers can

fall, that you absorb 58% of that. Then you just scored 1mg of iron, which is

nothing to sneeze at. >>>

Thanks for the encouragement. Makes it much easier to guzzle that liver (and

next hopefully spleen) down! Didn't know that spleen has so much more iron.

Sounds like the superfood for me!

<<<Oh geez, now we discover what you meant by " meat " .... aaargh... That

is one of my pet peeves.... All those meats have plenty of iron, not

just ruminant meat or whatever, so you're probably eating enough

meat, although it couldn't hurt to increase the serving size... Or

at least all three of those meats at every WD meal...>>

OK, so I guess it's a misconception that only red meat has iron. Well I have

animal/fish flesh every day, except maybe once a week when the fridge is empty

and I stick to eggs (they have iron too right?). I also have raw egg every

morning in my kefir smoothie.

Don't think I can increase the serving size as I seem to have put on weight on

the WD (3kg). It was good for me to put on weight, I look and feel better for

it but definitely don't want to put on anymore and am even thinking I need to

reduce what I'm eating. Hmmm, maybe it's about more variety.

Well I will report back with my next blood tests. Thanks for the input and info

everyone.

Filippa

[Guest guest]

Hi Filippa,

I am curious about iron from cast iron cookware and leaf vegetables. As a

vegetarian, I was told to cook in cast iron and eat greens. Is this iron a

good source I wonder? If so, cook that meat in cast iron with some spinach,

eh?

Deanna

[Guest guest]

Mike-

>okay, then a lot more meat for those special cases...

Not always possible or reasonable, particularly for smaller people who

can't eat that much in the first place.

>I don't follow the logic here--if they have absorption problems for

>the mineral in question, then why would food be less effective than

>pills? The absorption problem should affect both, but if anything,

>for minerals the greatest bioavailability will be from foods.

The logic is simple enough: where absorption is reduced in efficiency,

swamp yourself with the nutrient in quantities available only from

supplements in a short-term attempt to boost levels.

>I don't see why eating extra

>amounts of pretty much any meat (along with digestive aids or

>whatever other independent protocols are being followed

>simultaneously) wouldn't be preferable to pills.

Preferable? Well, who knows about that. How about affordable? Not

everyone can afford to eat all meat all the time, or at least not meat

that's going to be worth a damn nutritionally. And some people need to eat

lots of different things (like yoghurt or kefir, and like coconut products,

and vegetables and fruits) and simply can't fit enough meat into their diet

to overcome a severe zinc deficiency without the temporary aid of

supplementation.

>As for the

>economics of the specific case of osyters, as a budgetary compromise,

>a person could always eat canned oysters (in water), which are quite

>inexpensive, and of course have an indefinite shelflife, and hence

>couldn't be considered unavailable or inconvenient.

I've never actually seen canned oysters, and oyster production has declined

precipitously since the days when they traveled in cans across the entire

country and made their way into almost everyone's cooking.

>So problem

>solved.

What about for people who hate oysters, or are allergic to them, or simply

can't stomach canned oysters?

>But if someone is allergic to shellfish or something, simply

>eating a pound of beef or the like per day would probably give plenty

>of zinc for anyone.

LOL! Try forcing a pound of beef down an elderly person or your average a

5'2 " woman! (This is something I have quite a bit of experience with in

the form of my elderly, infirm, deficient-in-everything grandmother.) Your

attitude is quite doctrinaire, to say the least.

-

[Guest guest]

<<I am curious about iron from cast iron cookware and leaf vegetables. As a

vegetarian, I was told to cook in cast iron and eat greens. Is this iron a

good source I wonder? If so, cook that meat in cast iron with some spinach,

eh?>>

Hi Deanna, yes I remember reading that in my vegetarian cookbook when I was

veggie. I have no idea how absorbable that is. Perhaps others will pipe in

here. We do cook in cast iron but so far despite eating meat for a year cooked

in cast iron, my iron levels don't seem to be rising - and therefore this

" issue " of vegetarianism impairing the body's ability to absorb iron - an

ex-veggie friend is now having iron injections for this reason. So I am now in

full combat mode taking it in every " natural " source I can get my hands on as I

don't want to take iron tablets or have injections.

How are your iron levels?

Filippa ;-)

[Guest guest]

How are your iron levels? - Filippa ;-)

That's a good question! Isn't stool color a good indicator? I haven't had

it checked in years, but it was always fine. And my stools are dark when I

eat more iron rich veg like seaweed and dark greens. I love greens,

especially dandelion salad. Now that I am back on meat, my stools seem

always dark brown.

Short of running out to have it checked, what are the symptoms of anemia or

low iron I should look for?

Deanna

[Guest guest]

How are your iron levels? - Filippa ;-)

That's a good question! Isn't stool color a good indicator? I haven't had

it checked in years, but it was always fine. And my stools are dark when I

eat more iron rich veg like seaweed and dark greens. I love greens,

especially dandelion salad. Now that I am back on meat, my stools seem

always dark brown.

Short of running out to have it checked, what are the symptoms of anemia or

low iron I should look for?

Deanna

[Guest guest]

>Short of running out to have it checked, what are the symptoms of anemia or

>low iron I should look for?

>

>Deanna

OK, you didn't hear it form me, but the cheapest way to figure out

your iron levels is to donate blood. Hey, it's for a good cause too,

and you lose about 3,000 calories, and overcome your fear

of needles. They check for anemia on every giver. Also they

check for STDs and other stuff ... they will notify you if something

comes up.

However, the Catch-22 is you are NOT supposed to donate

blood for the purpose of getting free testing. So .... donate blood

because it is a good thing to do, the rest is freebies. (of course, if

you ARE anemic they won't allow you to donate, which is a bad idea

for anemic folks).

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>Short of running out to have it checked, what are the symptoms of anemia or

>low iron I should look for?

>

>Deanna

OK, you didn't hear it form me, but the cheapest way to figure out

your iron levels is to donate blood. Hey, it's for a good cause too,

and you lose about 3,000 calories, and overcome your fear

of needles. They check for anemia on every giver. Also they

check for STDs and other stuff ... they will notify you if something

comes up. - Heidi

---------------------------------------

Good idea, Heidi. Unfortunately, since I lived in the UK for a year in the

1990s, I am ineligible to give my fine blood. The FDA restricts anyone who

has lived in Europe over 6 months because of the mad cow scare. But now

that it has been found in North America - US and Canada - I wonder if that

means no one can donate blood anymore? Funny thing, I didn't even eat beef

in Europe, yet thousands that only visit, ate beef to their heart's content,

come back and give blood. Stupid rule!

Deanna

[Guest guest]

(How are your iron levels?)

<<Isn't stool color a good indicator? >> - Deanna

--> I thought stool colour is mainly an indicator of how well the bile is

flowing. When bile is blocked and not flowing well, your stools are light. When

the bile is flowing as it should, the biliribin makes the stools dark.

<<Short of running out to have it checked, what are the symptoms of anemia or

low iron I should look for?>>

Some of the more common symptoms include:

Headache, lightheadedness, paleness, mouth sores, chest pain, shortness of

breath, brittle nails, decreased/irregular heartbeat, weakness and general

fatigue.

Some people have no symptoms at all.

I got rejected by the Red Cross :-( for both low iron and low blood pressure.

I've also had blood tests.

- Filippa

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/25/04 1:58:35 AM Eastern Standard Time,

michaelantonparker@... writes:

> ... But also, it's not like it would very bright for

> most folks to drink, say, a quart of milk in one meal on a daily

> basis,

Why not?

Chris