Re: ionising electrons

[Guest guest]

> what the hell is ionising electrons?

---> not sure but possibly ozone. I have no idea what that does to

the herb. It sure as hell isn't any good for our lung tissue.

> im getting pretty tired of these companies using descriptions that

the avg person has NO iea what it is

----> Yup ain't that the truth!

Lynn

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/25/04 7:50:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,

anthony.byron@... writes:

> im getting pretty tired of these companies using descriptions that the avg

> person has NO iea what it is

How else would they use meaningless pseudo-science to sell products then?

I have a year of general chemistry and a year of organic chemistry, and even

I don't know what the hell it means.

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/26/04 8:07:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,

anthony.byron@... writes:

> damn man. all tha tknowledge from thsoe 2 subjects to.

> maybe collages shoudl start havign courses in the analogy used in shop

> products.

How about " How to get duped by an internet salesman 101 " ?

Chris

[Guest guest]

damn man. all tha tknowledge from thsoe 2 subjects to.

maybe collages shoudl start havign courses in the analogy used in shop products.

have a year of general chemistry and a year of organic chemistry, and even

I don't know what the hell it means.

Chris

Re: ionising electrons

In a message dated 3/25/04 7:50:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,

anthony.byron@... writes:

> im getting pretty tired of these companies using descriptions that the avg

> person has NO iea what it is

How else would they use meaningless pseudo-science to sell products then?

I have a year of general chemistry and a year of organic chemistry, and even

I don't know what the hell it means.

Chris

[Guest guest]

From: " byron "

> just lookign at my dandelion root dried herb

> and i just saw on the box that

> this product has been treated with ionising electrons to destroy harmfull

mirco-organisms.

>

> what the hell is ionising electrons?

I would guess it means that the product has been irradiated.

Bruce

http://www.hi-tm.com/Documents/Irradref.html

" When machine sources of irradiation (electrons and x-rays) are used, no nuclear

waste is produced. Uses: Sterilization of

disposable medical devices, radiation-sterilized diets for hospital patients

with impaired immune systems; radiation-pasteurization

of spices, milk, fruits, meat, and poultry; deinfestation of grains; sprout

inhibition in potatoes, onions and garlic; delay of

ripening and subsequent shelf extension of bananas, mangoes, papayas, guavas,

and avocados; elimination of trichinae in pork;

increased loaf volume of bread made from some irradiated wheat and flour; and

irradiated dehydrated vegetables reconstitute more

quickly. "

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: <ChrisMasterjohn@...>

> In a message dated 3/25/04 7:50:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> anthony.byron@... writes:

>

> > im getting pretty tired of these companies using descriptions that

the avg

> > person has NO iea what it is

>

> How else would they use meaningless pseudo-science to sell products

then?

Well, it's also an important technique in using pseudo-science to scare

people away from products, so I guess it all balances out in the end.

> I have a year of general chemistry and a year of organic chemistry,

and even

> I don't know what the hell it means.

Is organic chemistry as hard as they say? I wanted to take it, but as a

computer science major, I just couldn't fit an extra seven credits for

two consecutive semesters into my schedule.

To answer the original question, I believe that " ionizing electrons " are

beta particles. Radiation, in layman's terms.

[Guest guest]

well that sux

1) i dont WANT to eat irradiated food

2) how would hte dandelion root have anythign nutritional left after it aswell

damn this upsets me to no end

thanks fro the info mate. Im goign to be returning the unused portion of product

and ask fro refund

Re: ionising electrons

From: " byron "

> just lookign at my dandelion root dried herb

> and i just saw on the box that

> this product has been treated with ionising electrons to destroy harmfull

mirco-organisms.

>

> what the hell is ionising electrons?

I would guess it means that the product has been irradiated.

Bruce

http://www.hi-tm.com/Documents/Irradref.html

" When machine sources of irradiation (electrons and x-rays) are used, no

nuclear waste is produced. Uses: Sterilization of

disposable medical devices, radiation-sterilized diets for hospital patients

with impaired immune systems; radiation-pasteurization

of spices, milk, fruits, meat, and poultry; deinfestation of grains; sprout

inhibition in potatoes, onions and garlic; delay of

ripening and subsequent shelf extension of bananas, mangoes, papayas, guavas,

and avocados; elimination of trichinae in pork;

increased loaf volume of bread made from some irradiated wheat and flour; and

irradiated dehydrated vegetables reconstitute more

quickly. "

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Byron " <anthony.byron@...>

> well that sux

> 1) i dont WANT to eat irradiated food

> 2) how would hte dandelion root have anythign nutritional left after

it aswell

Uh...by not having all of its nutritional content destroyed by the

radiation? Come on--it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand

nuclear physics.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/27/04 2:49:07 AM Eastern Standard Time,

bberg@... writes:

> Is organic chemistry as hard as they say? I wanted to take it, but as a

> computer science major, I just couldn't fit an extra seven credits for

> two consecutive semesters into my schedule.

No; it's much easier than general chemistry. I don't think you could take it

without having had college-level general chemistry, but high school-level

general chemistry is probably sufficient to understand the concepts and other

than that they are pretty unrelated. (The only relation really is you have to

understand bonding and octets).

If you're really good at math and really bad at remembering anything, you

might find general chemistry easier, but most people (somewhere between 6 to 1

and 10 to 1) seem to find the reverse. My extra-class study time to class time

ratio was probably 3 -5 times higher for general chemistry 1 and 8 to 10 times

higher for gen chem 2 than for my organic classes.

If you have moderately good memorizational skill and moderately good

analytical skill organic is easy.

> To answer the original question, I believe that " ionizing electrons " are

> beta particles. Radiation, in layman's terms.

So in that phrase what is the object of the " ionization " ?

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/27/04 8:15:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,

johnny_tesla@... writes:

> " Ionizing electrons " means her herbs were zapped with ionizing

> radiation in the form of a beam of high energy electrons generated by

> a larger, more powerful version of the electron gun found in the back

> of every cathode ray tube (CRT) monitor or TV set.

Thanks. I'll ask the same question I asked -- what's the object of

the ionization?

There's nothing > meaningless or pseudoscience about it; it's pure physics.

>

The terminology seems deliberately obfuscatory. *shrug*

Chris

[Guest guest]

> In a message dated 3/25/04 7:50:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> anthony.byron@d... writes:

>

> > im getting pretty tired of these companies using descriptions

> > that the avg

> > person has NO iea what it is

>

> How else would they use meaningless pseudo-science to sell

> products then?

>

> I have a year of general chemistry and a year of organic

> chemistry, and even I don't know what the hell it means.

" Ionizing electrons " means her herbs were zapped with ionizing

radiation in the form of a beam of high energy electrons generated by

a larger, more powerful version of the electron gun found in the back

of every cathode ray tube (CRT) monitor or TV set. There's nothing

meaningless or pseudoscience about it; it's pure physics.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/27/04 1:09:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,

bberg@... writes:

> Strange. I've heard that it's extremely difficult. Maybe I was thinking

> of physical chemistry.

Prior to taking organic, I'd hear that it was extremely difficult and I'd

heard that it was extremely easy. So it's possible you heard the former from a

few people. On the other hand, I've heard that p chem is very difficult, and

have never heard it was easy.

>

> >>To answer the original question, I believe that " ionizing electrons "

> are

> >>beta particles. Radiation, in layman's terms.

> >

> >So in that phrase what is the object of the " ionization " ?

>

> Presumably anything that gets in their way. Depending on what it hits,

> it might knock an electron free from an atom or begin orbiting it.

Ok. I wasn't sure, by the language, whether it meant that the electrons were

being ionized (which wouldn't make any sense), or whether the objects being

struck were being ionized.

> Here's an overview of the different types of ionizing radiation:

>

> http://www.epa.gov/radiation/docs/ionize/ionize.htm

What I'd primarily been confused about was how there could be a qualitative

difference between some ionizing electron radiation and some non-ionizing

electron radiation, but this article answers that:

" Ionizing radiation is radiation that has sufficient energy to remove

electrons from atoms. "

So it just depends on the strength. Makes sense.

This also makes sense:

" In this document, it will be referred to simply as radiation. "

While their (the producer of anthony's product) usage is apparently

technically blameless, it still seems to me that they are deliberately using

terminology to obfuscate the fact that they are irradiating the product.

Chris

[Guest guest]

,

Could be they're using a negative ion generator which produces electrons

that destroy pollutants and pathogens. My air purifier does this. High

concentrations of negative ions are found in nature, at waterfalls

especially. This site explains it some

http://www.toolsforwellness.com/airwaternegative.html

Wanita

[Guest guest]

Re: ionising electrons

> In a message dated 3/27/04 2:49:07 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> bberg@... writes:

>

> > Is organic chemistry as hard as they say? I wanted to take it, but

as a

> > computer science major, I just couldn't fit an extra seven credits

for

> > two consecutive semesters into my schedule.

>

> No; it's much easier than general chemistry.

Strange. I've heard that it's extremely difficult. Maybe I was thinking

of physical chemistry.

> > To answer the original question, I believe that " ionizing electrons "

are

> > beta particles. Radiation, in layman's terms.

>

> So in that phrase what is the object of the " ionization " ?

Presumably anything that gets in their way. Depending on what it hits,

it might knock an electron free from an atom or begin orbiting it. In

either case, this tends to break apart chemical bonds and create

free-radical damage. It does not, as some people believe, cause the

target to become radioactive itself.

Here's an overview of the different types of ionizing radiation:

http://www.epa.gov/radiation/docs/ionize/ionize.htm

[Guest guest]

> In a message dated 3/27/04 8:15:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,

> johnny_tesla@y... writes:

>

> > " Ionizing electrons " means her herbs were zapped with ionizing

> > radiation in the form of a beam of high energy electrons

> > generated by

> > a larger, more powerful version of the electron gun found in

> > the back

> > of every cathode ray tube (CRT) monitor or TV set.

>

> Thanks. I'll ask the same question I asked --

> what's the object of the ionization?

The object of the ionization is to kill any microorganisms that might

be present in the food being irradiated.

[Guest guest]

> While their (the producer of anthony's product) usage is

> apparently technically blameless, it still seems to me

> that they are deliberately using terminology to obfuscate

> the fact that they are irradiating the product.

Chris... don't think of it as irradiation. Think of it

as " cold pasteurization " . Corporate McFood is there to feed you, take

care of you, and make sure that your food is safe. They want only the

best for you.

[Guest guest]

Chris-

>I have a year of general chemistry and a year of organic chemistry, and even

>I don't know what the hell it means.

It's so-called " cold pasteurization " , which is to say, food irradiation

with electron beams. Very nasty.

-

[Guest guest]

-

>Is organic chemistry as hard as they say?

Not as long as you have a decent memory, but there's a _lot_ of stuff to

remember.

-

[Guest guest]

Chris-

>On the other hand, I've heard that p chem is very difficult, and

>have never heard it was easy.

The difficulty of physical chemistry is almost entirely a function of the

teacher and the textbook. When I took it, I found it all but

incomprehensible -- until I got a better textbook and worked things out on

my own. The class's textbook was gruesome by comparison, and the professor

sucked. (And this wasn't some crappy university, either. I think for

whatever reason p chem classes just tend to suck. Of course, now I don't

remember much of it at all. So it goes.)

-

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/29/04 11:28:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,

bberg@... writes:

> By the way, what do you think about the alarmingly high levels of

> hydroxylic

> acid in our nation's water supply?

I think it rivals the frightening concentrations of hydrogen hydroxide-- but

frankly, I'm more worried about the shameless dumping of chemicals like

dihydrogen monoxide into our rivers and streams.

Chris

[Guest guest]

> It's so-called " cold pasteurization " , which is to say, food irradiation

> with electron beams. Very nasty.

>

>

> -

I have been looking at irradiation as it is in use here in Canada.

It doesn't seem to be in very common use here.

All irradiated products here in Canada have to have the international symbol for

irradiated food the " radura " and the word

" irradiated " under it on the package.

http://images.google.com/images?svnum=100 & hl=en & lr=lang_en & ie=ISO-8859-1 & q=radur\

a+irradiation

The allowed radiation types are:

a) Gamma radiation from radionuclides Cobalt-60 or Cesium-137

X-rays generated from machine sources operated at or below an energy level of

5 MeV

c) Electrons generated from machine sources operated at or below an energy level

of 10MeV

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/food-aliment/fpi-ipa/e_code_of_practice.pdf

The allowed amount of radiation used it seems is about 100 million times the

amount used to make a chest x-ray.

That is so scary, what are these people thinking.! :S

Bruce

[Guest guest]

They are thinking its longer shelf life = more $$ On the bottom line

I was listening to our prime minister the other day and the whole society

functions on the fragility of the word economy.

That is ALL it is about. Pisses me off

_____

From: Bruce Stordock [mailto:stordock@...]

Sent: Tuesday, 30 March 2004 1:11 PM

Subject: Re: ionising electrons

> It's so-called " cold pasteurization " , which is to say, food irradiation

> with electron beams. Very nasty.

>

>

> -

I have been looking at irradiation as it is in use here in Canada.

It doesn't seem to be in very common use here.

All irradiated products here in Canada have to have the international symbol

for irradiated food the " radura " and the word

" irradiated " under it on the package.

http://images.google.com/images?svnum=100

<http://images.google.com/images?svnum=100 & hl=en & lr=lang_en & ie=ISO-8859-1 & q=

radura+irradiation> & hl=en & lr=lang_en & ie=ISO-8859-1 & q=radura+irradiation

The allowed radiation types are:

a) Gamma radiation from radionuclides Cobalt-60 or Cesium-137

X-rays generated from machine sources operated at or below an energy

level of 5 MeV

c) Electrons generated from machine sources operated at or below an energy

level of 10MeV

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/food-aliment/fpi-ipa/e_code_of_practice.pdf

The allowed amount of radiation used it seems is about 100 million times the

amount used to make a chest x-ray.

That is so scary, what are these people thinking.! :S

Bruce

[Guest guest]

Quoting Bruce Stordock <stordock@...>:

> The allowed radiation types are:

> a) Gamma radiation from radionuclides Cobalt-60 or Cesium-137

> X-rays generated from machine sources operated at or below an energy

> level of 5 MeV

> c) Electrons generated from machine sources operated at or below an

> energy level of 10MeV

> http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/food-aliment/fpi-ipa/e_code_of_practice.pdf

>

> The allowed amount of radiation used it seems is about 100 million times

> the amount used to make a chest x-ray.

I have my doubts as to whether that's true, but I don't see how it's a

meaningful comparison, anyway. In one case, you're subjecting your heart to

radiation. In another, you're eating food that's been subjected to

radiation. We cannot draw any a priori conclusions about any relationship

that may or may not exist between the safe dosage for these two entirely

different procedures.

Are you aware that every time you take a breath, you're inhaling hundreds of

times the amount of air necessary to cause a fatal embolism?

> That is so scary, what are these people thinking.! :S

Why do you say that? Do you actually know enough about electromagnetic

radiation and its effects on muscle tissue to draw an informed conclusion,

or are you just frightened by words like " radiation " and " gamma " and

" million? "

By the way, what do you think about the alarmingly high levels of hydroxylic

acid in our nation's water supply?

--

Berg

bberg@...

[Guest guest]

Quoting Byron <anthony.byron@...>:

> They are thinking its longer shelf life = more $$ On the bottom line

Are you telling me that a for-profit business would base a decision on how

it would affect their profits? I'm shocked. Shocked!

Anyway, it won't help them if no one buys it. It doesn't matter how low the

bottom line is if the top line is lower.

> I was listening to our prime minister the other day and the whole society

> functions on the fragility of the word economy.

What does that mean?

> That is ALL it is about. Pisses me off

Presumably that means that you're willing to pay extra for food that doesn't

keep as long. So what's the problem? Irradiated food is clearly labelled as

such. Why is it that you're so determined to make sure that other people

don't have the right to make that choice for themselves?

--

Berg

bberg@...

[Guest guest]

Because I just did some checkin and ALL herbs will be irradiated ( and in

regards to price irradiated stuff pricing structure does NTO change ) I

still paud $7.40 unknowingly for these irradiated SMALL sachet of dandelion

root

_____

From: Berg [mailto:bberg@...]

Sent: Tuesday, 30 March 2004 2:38 PM

Subject: RE: ionising electrons

Quoting Byron <anthony.byron@...>:

> They are thinking its longer shelf life = more $$ On the bottom line

Are you telling me that a for-profit business would base a decision on how

it would affect their profits? I'm shocked. Shocked!

Anyway, it won't help them if no one buys it. It doesn't matter how low the

bottom line is if the top line is lower.

> I was listening to our prime minister the other day and the whole society

> functions on the fragility of the word economy.

What does that mean?

> That is ALL it is about. Pisses me off

Presumably that means that you're willing to pay extra for food that doesn't

keep as long. So what's the problem? Irradiated food is clearly labelled as

such. Why is it that you're so determined to make sure that other people

don't have the right to make that choice for themselves?

--

Berg

bberg@...