Guest guest Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 Kathy, You don't have to answer this on here, but is there any basis for the fear that your x will hurt you? If the answer is no, which I presume it is since OCD likes to find irrational fears to magnify in our kids, would it help to remind her that this is not a rational fear? Or to remind her that Dad will be at work (school, whatever) during the time she is at school? I know that OCD makes our kids think they are being rational so they don't believe us when we tell them that they are not. Sometimes I talk to my son in a very calm, almost monotonic voice when he is weirding out about something. I tell him, " you are hearing two voices, one is the voice of OCD and the other is the voice of reason. I am the voice of reason, and I need you to know that the odds of me getting carjacked and murdered on the way to WalMart are about 1 in 5 million. It's not going to happen. " or whatever the issue is. I can usually get him to calm down. Yesterday he felt his worms (which he feeds his turtle) were contaminated because his sister was talking loudly downstairs while he was opening the lid. I was able to talk him out of throwing away the worms and starving his turtle. On his own, he said, " Maybe I could just rinse them off " which I thought was a reasonable solution. Of course I would rather have him realize that the stupid worms are not even contaminated, but the solution was a better outcome than I expected. If her fear is based on something that has happened in the past would something like a restraining order make her feel like you are safer? Has your mom read any of the OCD books? When I came out of the closet to my parents about 's OCD they went right out and bought Dr. Chansky's book, and the next time I talked to them they were well-informed and supportive. (I had kept it a secret from them for about 6 mos. for fear they would not react well, which I wouldn't have been able to handle.) If your mom has the internet, there is a list like this one for family members. I hope things begin to stabalize and calm down for you and your girls! Kim in IA ( 15 OCD) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 Thanks for your input Kim. There is no basis for her to fear my x. He does act irrational at times, yet has never been physically violent. But we have had violence issues in our family lately. My brother in law beat up his wife recently and almost killed her, put her in the hospital. Also, I run a family daycare out of my home, and about 2 months ago, I had a non-custodial parent of one of the children that I watch, come and try to remove the child from daycare. Well, the custodial parent happened to be here, so it escalated into a physical fight in front of all of my daycare children. I got them all out of the room (the children), but they heard screaming profanities and a very violent fist fight. It was a gay couple, in case you are picturing a man hitting a woman. And to top it off, one of the partners (the aggressive one) was my own niece. So, I have had a restraining order on my niece for some time, although my daughter just can't seem to understand (or else it's the ocd), that the protective order will protect us. Although, I have to admit, I didn't feel very protected by the police that day that I called 911, when they told me since I run a business, I have to expect things like this to happen. Sorry, to go on and on, but there is background of violence, but none from the father. Although her father does react with loud voice and does stress us all out. It's hard to explain. And her father doesn't work until the afternoon. So, it's kind of hard to tell her he'll be at work. As far as my mother, she wants nothing to do with mental illness, (her words). Yes, this hurts me greatly, she is like a second parent to my girls, but tells me flat out, " I can't deal with it. " I so wish she would educate herself and get involved, but honestly I think she knows that if she does then the children will look to her for help and she just doesn't want to deal with it. She sees that sense she plays naieve about it, they really don't look to her. If that makes sense. Thank you for your advice, it all helps me so much!! Kathy > Kathy, > You don't have to answer this on here, but is there any basis for the > fear that your x will hurt you? If the answer is no, which I presume it > is since OCD likes to find irrational fears to magnify in our kids, > would it help to remind her that this is not a rational fear? Or to > remind her that Dad will be at work (school, whatever) during the time > she is at school? I know that OCD makes our kids think they are being > rational so they don't believe us when we tell them that they are not. > Sometimes I talk to my son in a very calm, almost monotonic voice when > he is weirding out about something. I tell him, " you are hearing two > voices, one is the voice of OCD and the other is the voice of reason. I > am the voice of reason, and I need you to know that the odds of me > getting carjacked and murdered on the way to WalMart are about 1 in 5 > million. It's not going to happen. " or whatever the issue is. I can > usually get him to calm down. Yesterday he felt his worms (which he > feeds his turtle) were contaminated because his sister was talking > loudly downstairs while he was opening the lid. I was able to talk him > out of throwing away the worms and starving his turtle. On his own, he > said, " Maybe I could just rinse them off " which I thought was a > reasonable solution. Of course I would rather have him realize that the > stupid worms are not even contaminated, but the solution was a better > outcome than I expected. > > If her fear is based on something that has happened in the past would > something like a restraining order make her feel like you are safer? > > Has your mom read any of the OCD books? When I came out of the closet > to my parents about 's OCD they went right out and bought Dr. > Chansky's book, and the next time I talked to them they were > well-informed and supportive. (I had kept it a secret from them for > about 6 mos. for fear they would not react well, which I wouldn't have > been able to handle.) If your mom has the internet, there is a list > like this one for family members. > > I hope things begin to stabalize and calm down for you and your girls! > > Kim in IA ( 15 OCD) > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Tammy, Sorry you had such a rough visit to the doctor today! I, too, have been through a lot regarding home schooing since my son's diagnosis. We are " lifers " as well. It has been good for our family until my son's OCD onset a year ago. Most of his contamination issues involve our home and his sister, though, so this year he is in public school for the first time. Some of his doctors have been pro-home school (his psychologist is pro) and some have been con or at least hesitant to be pro, like his pediatrician and his psychiatrist. Without restarting the debate on home schooling, each family must decide which school choice is best for its needs. When we started, we had to move a lot (military), so it worked for us as far as our kids having fewer gaps in their educations. Then we got to like it and stayed with it. We also do community theatre so are up late when there are shows. Having a flexible school schedule is a good fit. Having said that, many people (friends and acquaintences) want to tell us that the kids should all be in school, that 's OCD is enough stress for me and that I don't need schooling stress on top of that. I guess if I was getting a lot of that from doctors, I would have to look for someone just as qualified who would support my decision. As far as the staying up late, do your girls take their zoloft in the daytime? With , I have found that the earlier in the day he takes his, the better he sleeps at night. At first we were giving it later in the day, and he couldn't go to sleep at all. Now he takes it by 7 a.m. every school day, sometimes a bit later on the weekends. Being " in school " didn't make a difference. He would sleep all the way there in the car and sleep through history class and finally wake up after 2nd period P.E. class. When we finally switched the time he took the zoloft it helped. (he still snoozes some days in history, though.) Now he is usually asleep by 10 or 11 p.m., and takes a nap between school and dinner most days (he's 15). You're not the world's worst mom. You're doing what you think is best for your family and making personal sacrifices to do it. Hang in there! Kim in IA (2 Home school grads, 15 OCD in p.s., 2 h.s. girls 5th and 3rd) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 I am sorry you were made to feel so bad by your children's doctor. That is terrible. Though I do not homeschool, I do respect your choice. As for the sleeping issue, I am wondering have they always been like this or is it a newer thing? My daughter, during her first depression couldn't sleep at night. She was awake all through the night and then would finally fall asleep and it was challenging to get her up. She then had trouble staying awake during the day. Now, the depression that she just recently had, acted differently. She was already on 150 mg of Zoloft and wasn't able to stay awake. This is a 13 year old girl and it took everything to get her to stay up until 8. The pharmacist thought it was the Zoloft causing this. We upped her dose to 200 mg due to some issues, and it took away her depression and fixed her sleep issue. It turned out to be the depression was causing the problem. She now can stay awake until around 10, sleeps normally and is much easier to wake up in the morning. In her case depression acted differently both times. Good luck. Kim In a message dated 12/8/2004 11:41:29 PM Central Standard Time, susabean@... writes: My girls are both night owls, and no matter what I do, they seem to stay up all night and want to sleep until early afternoon. I have brought this to the pdoc's attention, thinking it may be medicine related, and have been told that it isn't....that it is basically parenting related. She didn't say it like that, but basicallly told me to put them to bed earlier and get them up earlier. Well, duh. Like I haven't tried that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 we too are homeschooling and feeling a ton of pressure from Shads Psychiatrist to go back in on jan 5th..we have been in and out and of and on homeschooling since k and I just know jan 5th wont work either...I have no homeschool support system right now and I know how you feel when people begin to assosiate ocd with staying at home..we stayed at home in the first place because of ocd. Its easier said than done but i would find a different doc who supports your views and tries to help in any situation.. and I have been called over protective..hey..call me overprotective rather than call me from school cause my son is having yet another ocd a panic attack! need advice > > > Hi. I don't often post, but I lurk and read all the posts. I need some > advice, if that's ok. I am feeling very much like throwing in the towel. > We went to the pdoc today and that didn't make it any better. > > First, a little background. My oldest dd, 11, had an acute onset of ocd > in June. It was pure obsessive thought, with scrupulosity and religiousity > thrown in for good measure. She was seen by a psychiatrist, and put on 25 > mg of zoloft, which has been slowly increased to her present dosage of 100 > mg. She was seeing a psychologist, but I really don't think she had true > cbt/erp therapy, although the therapist said that was what she did. Anyway, > the therapist d/c'd the therapy, so dd has been on meds only and coping > pretty well. Younger dgt, 8, has been dx'd with general anxiety disorder. > She is fearful of a lot of things, and she doesn't sleep unless she is in > between my dh and I. She was initially put on 5 mg buspar, but I saw very > little change in her. She was put on 25 mg of zoloft today. Both girls are > homeschooled, and have been since the beginning. Homeschooling is a way of > life for us, and I am not open to public school right now, as I do not like > the schools at which they would attend. My girls are both night owls, and > no matter what I do, they seem to stay up all night and want to sleep until > early afternoon. I have brought this to the pdoc's attention, thinking it > may be medicine related, and have been told that it isn't....that it is > basically parenting related. She didn't say it like that, but basicallly > told me to put them to bed earlier and get them up earlier. Well, duh. > Like I haven't tried that. > > Here's where I need the advice. I left the office today in tears. The > pdoc basically told me that if the girls were in school, they would get > up....that homeschooling allows them to remain in this pattern. My take on > this is different....if they were in school, they would be missing a lot of > school or being very late, as they are very difficult or impossible to waken > in the morning. She also told me that the reason I don't put them into > school is that perhaps I am overprotective. This may or may not be true, > but who is she to question how we school our children? Would she have the > same concerns if they were privately schooled?? I said as much to her, and > she backed off, but it is apparent she doesn't think very much of > homeschooling. I don't need her approval, but I don't want her attributing > things to homeschooling that aren't attributable, if that makes sense. She > then gave me, very reluctantly, a medication called Provigil. It is a med > used for people with narcolepsy. The theory is that if I keep them up all > day, they will sleep at night. She does not want to give them sleeping > pills, as she does not want them to get dependent upon them, which I > understand. I have used benedryl, which works to a degree with one dgt, but > hypes the other one up. The Provigil is temporary until we get them > " switched back around " . > > Here's the thing. I don't like the idea of giving them this drug. I am > also not convinced that my 8 year old needs zoloft. Yet when I try and > express this, I don't feel that I get anywhere. Also, I am very frustrated > over what seems to be a judgement regarding our homeschooling. I am feeling > as if I should get the world's worst mother award....and I don't know what > to do from here. Any advice? > > Thanks for listening, if you got this far..... > > Blessings, > Tammy > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.789 / Virus Database: 534 - Release Date: 11/07/2004 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 we too are homeschooling and feeling a ton of pressure from Shads Psychiatrist to go back in on jan 5th..we have been in and out and of and on homeschooling since k and I just know jan 5th wont work either...I have no homeschool support system right now and I know how you feel when people begin to assosiate ocd with staying at home..we stayed at home in the first place because of ocd. Its easier said than done but i would find a different doc who supports your views and tries to help in any situation.. and I have been called over protective..hey..call me overprotective rather than call me from school cause my son is having yet another ocd a panic attack! need advice > > > Hi. I don't often post, but I lurk and read all the posts. I need some > advice, if that's ok. I am feeling very much like throwing in the towel. > We went to the pdoc today and that didn't make it any better. > > First, a little background. My oldest dd, 11, had an acute onset of ocd > in June. It was pure obsessive thought, with scrupulosity and religiousity > thrown in for good measure. She was seen by a psychiatrist, and put on 25 > mg of zoloft, which has been slowly increased to her present dosage of 100 > mg. She was seeing a psychologist, but I really don't think she had true > cbt/erp therapy, although the therapist said that was what she did. Anyway, > the therapist d/c'd the therapy, so dd has been on meds only and coping > pretty well. Younger dgt, 8, has been dx'd with general anxiety disorder. > She is fearful of a lot of things, and she doesn't sleep unless she is in > between my dh and I. She was initially put on 5 mg buspar, but I saw very > little change in her. She was put on 25 mg of zoloft today. Both girls are > homeschooled, and have been since the beginning. Homeschooling is a way of > life for us, and I am not open to public school right now, as I do not like > the schools at which they would attend. My girls are both night owls, and > no matter what I do, they seem to stay up all night and want to sleep until > early afternoon. I have brought this to the pdoc's attention, thinking it > may be medicine related, and have been told that it isn't....that it is > basically parenting related. She didn't say it like that, but basicallly > told me to put them to bed earlier and get them up earlier. Well, duh. > Like I haven't tried that. > > Here's where I need the advice. I left the office today in tears. The > pdoc basically told me that if the girls were in school, they would get > up....that homeschooling allows them to remain in this pattern. My take on > this is different....if they were in school, they would be missing a lot of > school or being very late, as they are very difficult or impossible to waken > in the morning. She also told me that the reason I don't put them into > school is that perhaps I am overprotective. This may or may not be true, > but who is she to question how we school our children? Would she have the > same concerns if they were privately schooled?? I said as much to her, and > she backed off, but it is apparent she doesn't think very much of > homeschooling. I don't need her approval, but I don't want her attributing > things to homeschooling that aren't attributable, if that makes sense. She > then gave me, very reluctantly, a medication called Provigil. It is a med > used for people with narcolepsy. The theory is that if I keep them up all > day, they will sleep at night. She does not want to give them sleeping > pills, as she does not want them to get dependent upon them, which I > understand. I have used benedryl, which works to a degree with one dgt, but > hypes the other one up. The Provigil is temporary until we get them > " switched back around " . > > Here's the thing. I don't like the idea of giving them this drug. I am > also not convinced that my 8 year old needs zoloft. Yet when I try and > express this, I don't feel that I get anywhere. Also, I am very frustrated > over what seems to be a judgement regarding our homeschooling. I am feeling > as if I should get the world's worst mother award....and I don't know what > to do from here. Any advice? > > Thanks for listening, if you got this far..... > > Blessings, > Tammy > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.789 / Virus Database: 534 - Release Date: 11/07/2004 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 In short - dump the doc. > > Hi. I don't often post, but I lurk and read all the posts. I need some > advice, if that's ok. I am feeling very much like throwing in the towel. > We went to the pdoc today and that didn't make it any better. > > First, a little background. My oldest dd, 11, had an acute onset of ocd > in June. It was pure obsessive thought, with scrupulosity and religiousity > thrown in for good measure. She was seen by a psychiatrist, and put on 25 > mg of zoloft, which has been slowly increased to her present dosage of 100 > mg. She was seeing a psychologist, but I really don't think she had true > cbt/erp therapy, although the therapist said that was what she did. Anyway, > the therapist d/c'd the therapy, so dd has been on meds only and coping > pretty well. Younger dgt, 8, has been dx'd with general anxiety disorder. > She is fearful of a lot of things, and she doesn't sleep unless she is in > between my dh and I. She was initially put on 5 mg buspar, but I saw very > little change in her. She was put on 25 mg of zoloft today. Both girls are > homeschooled, and have been since the beginning. Homeschooling is a way of > life for us, and I am not open to public school right now, as I do not like > the schools at which they would attend. My girls are both night owls, and > no matter what I do, they seem to stay up all night and want to sleep until > early afternoon. I have brought this to the pdoc's attention, thinking it > may be medicine related, and have been told that it isn't....that it is > basically parenting related. She didn't say it like that, but basicallly > told me to put them to bed earlier and get them up earlier. Well, duh. > Like I haven't tried that. > > Here's where I need the advice. I left the office today in tears. The > pdoc basically told me that if the girls were in school, they would get > up....that homeschooling allows them to remain in this pattern. My take on > this is different....if they were in school, they would be missing a lot of > school or being very late, as they are very difficult or impossible to waken > in the morning. She also told me that the reason I don't put them into > school is that perhaps I am overprotective. This may or may not be true, > but who is she to question how we school our children? Would she have the > same concerns if they were privately schooled?? I said as much to her, and > she backed off, but it is apparent she doesn't think very much of > homeschooling. I don't need her approval, but I don't want her attributing > things to homeschooling that aren't attributable, if that makes sense. She > then gave me, very reluctantly, a medication called Provigil. It is a med > used for people with narcolepsy. The theory is that if I keep them up all > day, they will sleep at night. She does not want to give them sleeping > pills, as she does not want them to get dependent upon them, which I > understand. I have used benedryl, which works to a degree with one dgt, but > hypes the other one up. The Provigil is temporary until we get them > " switched back around " . > > Here's the thing. I don't like the idea of giving them this drug. I am > also not convinced that my 8 year old needs zoloft. Yet when I try and > express this, I don't feel that I get anywhere. Also, I am very frustrated > over what seems to be a judgement regarding our homeschooling. I am feeling > as if I should get the world's worst mother award....and I don't know what > to do from here. Any advice? > > Thanks for listening, if you got this far..... > > Blessings, > Tammy > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.789 / Virus Database: 534 - Release Date: 11/07/2004 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 In short - dump the doc. > > Hi. I don't often post, but I lurk and read all the posts. I need some > advice, if that's ok. I am feeling very much like throwing in the towel. > We went to the pdoc today and that didn't make it any better. > > First, a little background. My oldest dd, 11, had an acute onset of ocd > in June. It was pure obsessive thought, with scrupulosity and religiousity > thrown in for good measure. She was seen by a psychiatrist, and put on 25 > mg of zoloft, which has been slowly increased to her present dosage of 100 > mg. She was seeing a psychologist, but I really don't think she had true > cbt/erp therapy, although the therapist said that was what she did. Anyway, > the therapist d/c'd the therapy, so dd has been on meds only and coping > pretty well. Younger dgt, 8, has been dx'd with general anxiety disorder. > She is fearful of a lot of things, and she doesn't sleep unless she is in > between my dh and I. She was initially put on 5 mg buspar, but I saw very > little change in her. She was put on 25 mg of zoloft today. Both girls are > homeschooled, and have been since the beginning. Homeschooling is a way of > life for us, and I am not open to public school right now, as I do not like > the schools at which they would attend. My girls are both night owls, and > no matter what I do, they seem to stay up all night and want to sleep until > early afternoon. I have brought this to the pdoc's attention, thinking it > may be medicine related, and have been told that it isn't....that it is > basically parenting related. She didn't say it like that, but basicallly > told me to put them to bed earlier and get them up earlier. Well, duh. > Like I haven't tried that. > > Here's where I need the advice. I left the office today in tears. The > pdoc basically told me that if the girls were in school, they would get > up....that homeschooling allows them to remain in this pattern. My take on > this is different....if they were in school, they would be missing a lot of > school or being very late, as they are very difficult or impossible to waken > in the morning. She also told me that the reason I don't put them into > school is that perhaps I am overprotective. This may or may not be true, > but who is she to question how we school our children? Would she have the > same concerns if they were privately schooled?? I said as much to her, and > she backed off, but it is apparent she doesn't think very much of > homeschooling. I don't need her approval, but I don't want her attributing > things to homeschooling that aren't attributable, if that makes sense. She > then gave me, very reluctantly, a medication called Provigil. It is a med > used for people with narcolepsy. The theory is that if I keep them up all > day, they will sleep at night. She does not want to give them sleeping > pills, as she does not want them to get dependent upon them, which I > understand. I have used benedryl, which works to a degree with one dgt, but > hypes the other one up. The Provigil is temporary until we get them > " switched back around " . > > Here's the thing. I don't like the idea of giving them this drug. I am > also not convinced that my 8 year old needs zoloft. Yet when I try and > express this, I don't feel that I get anywhere. Also, I am very frustrated > over what seems to be a judgement regarding our homeschooling. I am feeling > as if I should get the world's worst mother award....and I don't know what > to do from here. Any advice? > > Thanks for listening, if you got this far..... > > Blessings, > Tammy > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.789 / Virus Database: 534 - Release Date: 11/07/2004 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 We homeschooled our 2 kids for the past10 years. My dh and I owned a janitorial business. All the work was from about 5:00pm - 1:00am. If our kids had been in public school, we would have never seen them. We often brought them to work with us and paid them for helping out. It was fun. Of course we all stayed up late and got up late in the morning, but I was amazed at how many people had a problem with that. It was like if you don't do things exactly the same as everybody else...but how could we get up at 6:00am if we were working late at night? Before we had kids, dh and I were CNAs at the hospital and worked the night shift. We slept during the day. I don't understand why people get so stuck on this whole sleep thing. Now, dh is working days and I mostly stay home. My dd is in public school and ds at age 16 is going to the local college. We still have trouble getting to bed early and getting up in the morning. I think we are just night people. My dd goes to bed on time, but tosses and turns for an hour or so before she can fall asleep. Then in the morning it is hard to pull her out of bed to get going. I really think that there are just night people and morning people and I think it is not something that you can just change because somebody else thinks you should. My dd is going back to homeschool next year. We mostly put her in public this year for the exposure in her fight against OCD. She has done so well! But she says she learned more in homeschool. On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 16:59:37 -0500 " Ruehlman " writes: > > My girls are both night owls, and > no matter what I do, they seem to stay up all night and want to > sleep until > early afternoon. > > > I know many many homeschooling families that are night owls. We were > for a long time too. I'm not sure what's wrong with it, cause they > don't *have* to get up for anything. It seems like it's just an > idea that you're lazy or something if you sleep late, but if you're > going to bed late, then of course you're going to sleep late. Is it > the same number of hours of sleep? They're not sleeping too long, > right? You could pretend you lived in another part of the world, and > adapt that time zone to suit your family. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 We homeschooled our 2 kids for the past10 years. My dh and I owned a janitorial business. All the work was from about 5:00pm - 1:00am. If our kids had been in public school, we would have never seen them. We often brought them to work with us and paid them for helping out. It was fun. Of course we all stayed up late and got up late in the morning, but I was amazed at how many people had a problem with that. It was like if you don't do things exactly the same as everybody else...but how could we get up at 6:00am if we were working late at night? Before we had kids, dh and I were CNAs at the hospital and worked the night shift. We slept during the day. I don't understand why people get so stuck on this whole sleep thing. Now, dh is working days and I mostly stay home. My dd is in public school and ds at age 16 is going to the local college. We still have trouble getting to bed early and getting up in the morning. I think we are just night people. My dd goes to bed on time, but tosses and turns for an hour or so before she can fall asleep. Then in the morning it is hard to pull her out of bed to get going. I really think that there are just night people and morning people and I think it is not something that you can just change because somebody else thinks you should. My dd is going back to homeschool next year. We mostly put her in public this year for the exposure in her fight against OCD. She has done so well! But she says she learned more in homeschool. On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 16:59:37 -0500 " Ruehlman " writes: > > My girls are both night owls, and > no matter what I do, they seem to stay up all night and want to > sleep until > early afternoon. > > > I know many many homeschooling families that are night owls. We were > for a long time too. I'm not sure what's wrong with it, cause they > don't *have* to get up for anything. It seems like it's just an > idea that you're lazy or something if you sleep late, but if you're > going to bed late, then of course you're going to sleep late. Is it > the same number of hours of sleep? They're not sleeping too long, > right? You could pretend you lived in another part of the world, and > adapt that time zone to suit your family. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 We homeschooled our 2 kids for the past10 years. My dh and I owned a janitorial business. All the work was from about 5:00pm - 1:00am. If our kids had been in public school, we would have never seen them. We often brought them to work with us and paid them for helping out. It was fun. Of course we all stayed up late and got up late in the morning, but I was amazed at how many people had a problem with that. It was like if you don't do things exactly the same as everybody else...but how could we get up at 6:00am if we were working late at night? Before we had kids, dh and I were CNAs at the hospital and worked the night shift. We slept during the day. I don't understand why people get so stuck on this whole sleep thing. Now, dh is working days and I mostly stay home. My dd is in public school and ds at age 16 is going to the local college. We still have trouble getting to bed early and getting up in the morning. I think we are just night people. My dd goes to bed on time, but tosses and turns for an hour or so before she can fall asleep. Then in the morning it is hard to pull her out of bed to get going. I really think that there are just night people and morning people and I think it is not something that you can just change because somebody else thinks you should. My dd is going back to homeschool next year. We mostly put her in public this year for the exposure in her fight against OCD. She has done so well! But she says she learned more in homeschool. On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 16:59:37 -0500 " Ruehlman " writes: > > My girls are both night owls, and > no matter what I do, they seem to stay up all night and want to > sleep until > early afternoon. > > > I know many many homeschooling families that are night owls. We were > for a long time too. I'm not sure what's wrong with it, cause they > don't *have* to get up for anything. It seems like it's just an > idea that you're lazy or something if you sleep late, but if you're > going to bed late, then of course you're going to sleep late. Is it > the same number of hours of sleep? They're not sleeping too long, > right? You could pretend you lived in another part of the world, and > adapt that time zone to suit your family. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Lyme disease and other tick-borne infections, including bartonella, have also been associated with sudden-onset OCD. Pam Weintraub wrote on 2/13/2005, 8:13 PM: > > > Hi, welcome, I have a son, 16, with OCD. His began a few months > before he turned 12. > > You might have already done this, but first the OCD Foundation > website has lots of information about treatment. It's located at > http://ocfoundation.org Be sure to look at the section for some > great books on OCD to read. > > And since you said it seemed to be a sudden onset of OCD, look at any > information on PANDAS OCD at the above site. With PANDAS, that is > where the child has recently been sick with strep throat and began to > have OCD. I think strep is the most common cause, maybe not the > only. PANDAS stands for " Pediatric Autoimmune Neuropsychiatric > Disorders Associated with Streptococcal Infections. " There is also > PITANDS. Here's some info on it: > http://www.tourettesyndrome.net/pandas_overview.htm > (the above site covers lots of conditions, don't let the tourette > syndrome name throw you off) > > My son's OCD seemed to be abrupt also, but I haven't been able to pin > it to the PANDAS type. Howver, growing up he did have a few minor > OCD behaviors, no huge deal or problem. Suddenly at age 11, it was > 24/7 OCD, compulsions everywhere! > > Another good site for information is: > http://www.homestead.com/westsuffolkpsych/index.html > Scroll down the page to the " Articles " and click on it. > > Finding a psychologist or therapist experienced in working with OCD > or even " kids " with OCD has been difficult for some parents. Make > sure you read on the above sites about the therapy (CBT and ERP) that > should be done. It varies among people, but it can take up to 8 or > even 12 weeks for the medication to really begin to kick in. Some > people need that help before therapy can be beneficial if their > anxiety level is still extremely high with the OCD. > > My son has the " something bad will happen to me " and has to get > a " just right " feeling with his OCD. He had lots of touching > compulsions and some repetitive things, some mental ones too I > think. At any rate, he is MUCH better and OCD has taken to the > background in his and our lives. Your son will reach this point too, > I'm sure!!! > > This is a great group, feel free to ask questions, read our FILES > section for information and vent on any bad days your family/son is > having! > > > single mom, 3 sons > , 16, with OCD, dysgraphia and Aspergers > > > > > > > Last month my son just woke up one morning and was repeating things > > and hiding in closets and under bed's and behind the shower > curtains > > and I was told he has OCD. I need any advice from any other parents > > out there to see what steps were taken . The Doctor keeps saying we > > will get the old Tyler back but I am not sure and want to do > > whatever possible to have it happen. We have started meds and our > > seeing a child psychologist but I am not sure if we are seeing any > > progress. Desperate for hope and advice. > > > > > > > Our list archives, bookmarks, files, and chat feature may be accessed > at: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group// . > Our list advisors are Gail B. , Ed.D., Tamar Chansky, Ph.D.( > http://www.worrywisekids.org ), Dan Geller, M.D.,Aureen Pinto Wagner, > Ph.D., ( http://www.lighthouse-press.com ). Our list moderators are > Birkhan, Castle, Fowler, Kathy Hammes, Joye, > Kathy Mac, Gail Pesses, and Kathy . Subscription > issues or suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, > at louisharkins@... , louisharkins@... , > louisharkins@... . > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 From: Dennis Ring To: Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 10:24 PM Subject: Re: need advice That's how old my dd was when I realized she had ocd this past December -- 8 almost 9. She was incredibly upset thinking she was going crazy. I spent countless hours researching online -- which I'm sure is what you did too. On one site, someone was highly recommending the book: " Freeing your Child from OCD " by Tamar Chansky. I went out and bought it and found it very helpful. It explains ocd to you, then has sections that give you actual words to say to your child to explain it to them. Pictures too. This really helped my dd. First of all, she realized she wasn't going crazy and she wasn't alone. I forget now how many children in U.S. have ocd, but it's a big enough number that she was impressed. Understanding what it was gave her power. She was able to boss back the ocd in many instances. The book explains how to do that; explains cbt and erp. It may take you a while to find a good therapist. I was very very lucky and found one quickly, but still we had to wait almost 2 months for the first appointment. Seemed like an eternity to me. The book helped dd to get a handle on the ocd while waiting for the therapist. Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 From: Dennis Ring To: Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 10:24 PM Subject: Re: need advice That's how old my dd was when I realized she had ocd this past December -- 8 almost 9. She was incredibly upset thinking she was going crazy. I spent countless hours researching online -- which I'm sure is what you did too. On one site, someone was highly recommending the book: " Freeing your Child from OCD " by Tamar Chansky. I went out and bought it and found it very helpful. It explains ocd to you, then has sections that give you actual words to say to your child to explain it to them. Pictures too. This really helped my dd. First of all, she realized she wasn't going crazy and she wasn't alone. I forget now how many children in U.S. have ocd, but it's a big enough number that she was impressed. Understanding what it was gave her power. She was able to boss back the ocd in many instances. The book explains how to do that; explains cbt and erp. It may take you a while to find a good therapist. I was very very lucky and found one quickly, but still we had to wait almost 2 months for the first appointment. Seemed like an eternity to me. The book helped dd to get a handle on the ocd while waiting for the therapist. Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Hi there, just a quick note that strep can infect other body parts, not just the throat. (Other sites: sinus, ear, rectum, skin, etc.) You might also want the blood test, if his strep titers are sky high it would indicate that his sudden-onset OCD is due to a strep infection. It is the high circulating antibodies to strep that cause the symptoms, not the strep germ itself, so many times PANDAS kids have abrupt onsets *after* the strep infection is cleared, *while* they have high circulating strep antibodies. Kathy R. in Indiana ----- Original Message ----- From: " Dennis Ring " <dennis_rng@... > That is initially what they thought that it was caused from untreated > strep but the test came back negative so now I will just be patient that I > am asking for answers so soon and be patient for the medicine to work and > hopefully he will strt to open up to the psychologist. Thanks for > responding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Hi there, just a quick note that strep can infect other body parts, not just the throat. (Other sites: sinus, ear, rectum, skin, etc.) You might also want the blood test, if his strep titers are sky high it would indicate that his sudden-onset OCD is due to a strep infection. It is the high circulating antibodies to strep that cause the symptoms, not the strep germ itself, so many times PANDAS kids have abrupt onsets *after* the strep infection is cleared, *while* they have high circulating strep antibodies. Kathy R. in Indiana ----- Original Message ----- From: " Dennis Ring " <dennis_rng@... > That is initially what they thought that it was caused from untreated > strep but the test came back negative so now I will just be patient that I > am asking for answers so soon and be patient for the medicine to work and > hopefully he will strt to open up to the psychologist. Thanks for > responding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Hi there, just a quick note that strep can infect other body parts, not just the throat. (Other sites: sinus, ear, rectum, skin, etc.) You might also want the blood test, if his strep titers are sky high it would indicate that his sudden-onset OCD is due to a strep infection. It is the high circulating antibodies to strep that cause the symptoms, not the strep germ itself, so many times PANDAS kids have abrupt onsets *after* the strep infection is cleared, *while* they have high circulating strep antibodies. Kathy R. in Indiana ----- Original Message ----- From: " Dennis Ring " <dennis_rng@... > That is initially what they thought that it was caused from untreated > strep but the test came back negative so now I will just be patient that I > am asking for answers so soon and be patient for the medicine to work and > hopefully he will strt to open up to the psychologist. Thanks for > responding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Hi there, my child also had the literal, overnight onset, her " anniversary date " is Dec. 8. See comments at ***** > Thanks for responding I needed an email from someone like you. He's not > the same boy and I miss him so much! *****I remember wanting to peel back the OCD, just connect or visit with my " real " little girl and see that she was alright... > He has started to get in troube in school. The teachers say that he thinks the rules do not apply to him anymore. Did your son ever take prozac? That is what my son is on *****Prozac can be disinhibiting as a side effect, you saying the teachers think he does not think the rules apply to him anymore made me think he may be experiencing this side effect. Many times side effects wane over time, sometimes not, there isn't any way to know in advance unfortunately. I suggest you or his doctor speak with the school and his teachers, they should cut him slack while he is being titered up on medications. If he wasn't a troublemaker before, it's very unlikely that he would suddenly start, much more likely this is a med side effect. > and is really not getting anything out of his psychology appointments he > just seems to clam up and not talk at all. *****Is Ty getting Cognitive Behavior Therapy with Exposure and Response Prevention? This is the only type of therapy that reduces and eliminates OCD symptoms plus gives kids " tools " to handle future Os and Cs. A good, experienced child therapist will expect a child with OCD will not be eager to chat about it, and so have tricks up his sleeve to engage the child in therapy. > Ty never slept with the bedroom door closed and now he does and does not > want the night light either. He now likes diet Coke vs rootbeer or orange > soda. He doen't care if we do anything to entertain him. I was thinking I > should switch to a need med. But from what I have been reading it is going > to take time to see any improvements. *****He is probably having fears and worries, night time seems to really kick up the OCD in our kids. Any of these things may be obsessions or compulsions, especially if he gets upset/angry or very anxious if they are wrong somehow--wrong soda, etc. It does take quite awhile to know if a certain SSRI is going to be helpful, and I know from experience that these are among the longest weeks we have to endure. > He has the word " Maybe " stuck in his head and really doesn't ever say yes > or no. *****OCD is nicknamed " the doubting disease " due to this common symptom of being unable to be sure about things. As soon as he says " yes " OCD starts in with " Are you sure, how can you be absolutely sure??? " Lots of kids resort to being vague, using disclaimers ( " At least, I *think* that's what happened " ), or saying " maybe " in order to avoid this trap. > This all started January 7th. *****PANDAS or I'll eat my hat LOL. Your son's story sounds just like my little girl's. The ability to state what day OCD/tics started is one of the big hints that this is PANDAS OCD. > Are you suppose to ask if they want to play hide and seek when they start > to hide? *****Though he is probably anxious or fearful when he hides, actually this would be a good response. Many of us have noticed that a light-hearted or humorous comment can take some of the deathly-serious weight out of OCD. My daughter was four, about to turn five, when she had her onset. She's now 11, long stabilized on an SSRI and the veteran of several months of CBT/ERP. She's happy and herself again, makes good grades and enjoys school and friends, many other activities, and OCD is more a nuisance to her than the huge, upsetting burden it was to begin with. Your boy will get there too, (((hugs))) I am so sorry that it is so hard in the beginning, but he is on his way and his symptoms will begin to improve :-) Take care, Kathy R. in Indiana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Hi there, my child also had the literal, overnight onset, her " anniversary date " is Dec. 8. See comments at ***** > Thanks for responding I needed an email from someone like you. He's not > the same boy and I miss him so much! *****I remember wanting to peel back the OCD, just connect or visit with my " real " little girl and see that she was alright... > He has started to get in troube in school. The teachers say that he thinks the rules do not apply to him anymore. Did your son ever take prozac? That is what my son is on *****Prozac can be disinhibiting as a side effect, you saying the teachers think he does not think the rules apply to him anymore made me think he may be experiencing this side effect. Many times side effects wane over time, sometimes not, there isn't any way to know in advance unfortunately. I suggest you or his doctor speak with the school and his teachers, they should cut him slack while he is being titered up on medications. If he wasn't a troublemaker before, it's very unlikely that he would suddenly start, much more likely this is a med side effect. > and is really not getting anything out of his psychology appointments he > just seems to clam up and not talk at all. *****Is Ty getting Cognitive Behavior Therapy with Exposure and Response Prevention? This is the only type of therapy that reduces and eliminates OCD symptoms plus gives kids " tools " to handle future Os and Cs. A good, experienced child therapist will expect a child with OCD will not be eager to chat about it, and so have tricks up his sleeve to engage the child in therapy. > Ty never slept with the bedroom door closed and now he does and does not > want the night light either. He now likes diet Coke vs rootbeer or orange > soda. He doen't care if we do anything to entertain him. I was thinking I > should switch to a need med. But from what I have been reading it is going > to take time to see any improvements. *****He is probably having fears and worries, night time seems to really kick up the OCD in our kids. Any of these things may be obsessions or compulsions, especially if he gets upset/angry or very anxious if they are wrong somehow--wrong soda, etc. It does take quite awhile to know if a certain SSRI is going to be helpful, and I know from experience that these are among the longest weeks we have to endure. > He has the word " Maybe " stuck in his head and really doesn't ever say yes > or no. *****OCD is nicknamed " the doubting disease " due to this common symptom of being unable to be sure about things. As soon as he says " yes " OCD starts in with " Are you sure, how can you be absolutely sure??? " Lots of kids resort to being vague, using disclaimers ( " At least, I *think* that's what happened " ), or saying " maybe " in order to avoid this trap. > This all started January 7th. *****PANDAS or I'll eat my hat LOL. Your son's story sounds just like my little girl's. The ability to state what day OCD/tics started is one of the big hints that this is PANDAS OCD. > Are you suppose to ask if they want to play hide and seek when they start > to hide? *****Though he is probably anxious or fearful when he hides, actually this would be a good response. Many of us have noticed that a light-hearted or humorous comment can take some of the deathly-serious weight out of OCD. My daughter was four, about to turn five, when she had her onset. She's now 11, long stabilized on an SSRI and the veteran of several months of CBT/ERP. She's happy and herself again, makes good grades and enjoys school and friends, many other activities, and OCD is more a nuisance to her than the huge, upsetting burden it was to begin with. Your boy will get there too, (((hugs))) I am so sorry that it is so hard in the beginning, but he is on his way and his symptoms will begin to improve :-) Take care, Kathy R. in Indiana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Hi there, my child also had the literal, overnight onset, her " anniversary date " is Dec. 8. See comments at ***** > Thanks for responding I needed an email from someone like you. He's not > the same boy and I miss him so much! *****I remember wanting to peel back the OCD, just connect or visit with my " real " little girl and see that she was alright... > He has started to get in troube in school. The teachers say that he thinks the rules do not apply to him anymore. Did your son ever take prozac? That is what my son is on *****Prozac can be disinhibiting as a side effect, you saying the teachers think he does not think the rules apply to him anymore made me think he may be experiencing this side effect. Many times side effects wane over time, sometimes not, there isn't any way to know in advance unfortunately. I suggest you or his doctor speak with the school and his teachers, they should cut him slack while he is being titered up on medications. If he wasn't a troublemaker before, it's very unlikely that he would suddenly start, much more likely this is a med side effect. > and is really not getting anything out of his psychology appointments he > just seems to clam up and not talk at all. *****Is Ty getting Cognitive Behavior Therapy with Exposure and Response Prevention? This is the only type of therapy that reduces and eliminates OCD symptoms plus gives kids " tools " to handle future Os and Cs. A good, experienced child therapist will expect a child with OCD will not be eager to chat about it, and so have tricks up his sleeve to engage the child in therapy. > Ty never slept with the bedroom door closed and now he does and does not > want the night light either. He now likes diet Coke vs rootbeer or orange > soda. He doen't care if we do anything to entertain him. I was thinking I > should switch to a need med. But from what I have been reading it is going > to take time to see any improvements. *****He is probably having fears and worries, night time seems to really kick up the OCD in our kids. Any of these things may be obsessions or compulsions, especially if he gets upset/angry or very anxious if they are wrong somehow--wrong soda, etc. It does take quite awhile to know if a certain SSRI is going to be helpful, and I know from experience that these are among the longest weeks we have to endure. > He has the word " Maybe " stuck in his head and really doesn't ever say yes > or no. *****OCD is nicknamed " the doubting disease " due to this common symptom of being unable to be sure about things. As soon as he says " yes " OCD starts in with " Are you sure, how can you be absolutely sure??? " Lots of kids resort to being vague, using disclaimers ( " At least, I *think* that's what happened " ), or saying " maybe " in order to avoid this trap. > This all started January 7th. *****PANDAS or I'll eat my hat LOL. Your son's story sounds just like my little girl's. The ability to state what day OCD/tics started is one of the big hints that this is PANDAS OCD. > Are you suppose to ask if they want to play hide and seek when they start > to hide? *****Though he is probably anxious or fearful when he hides, actually this would be a good response. Many of us have noticed that a light-hearted or humorous comment can take some of the deathly-serious weight out of OCD. My daughter was four, about to turn five, when she had her onset. She's now 11, long stabilized on an SSRI and the veteran of several months of CBT/ERP. She's happy and herself again, makes good grades and enjoys school and friends, many other activities, and OCD is more a nuisance to her than the huge, upsetting burden it was to begin with. Your boy will get there too, (((hugs))) I am so sorry that it is so hard in the beginning, but he is on his way and his symptoms will begin to improve :-) Take care, Kathy R. in Indiana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 yes, exactly, it is autoimmune. The damage remains even after the antibodies subside. So a negative test does not negate an infectious etiology. Pam Weintraub Kathy wrote on 2/13/2005, 11:29 PM: > > Hi there, just a quick note that strep can infect other body parts, > not just > the throat. (Other sites: sinus, ear, rectum, skin, etc.) You might > also > want the blood test, if his strep titers are sky high it would > indicate that > his sudden-onset OCD is due to a strep infection. It is the high > circulating antibodies to strep that cause the symptoms, not the strep > germ > itself, so many times PANDAS kids have abrupt onsets *after* the strep > infection is cleared, *while* they have high circulating strep > antibodies. > > Kathy R. in Indiana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 we had suddent onset ocd following on the heels of Lyme disease and bartonella. age 13 Kathy wrote on 2/13/2005, 11:51 PM: > > Hi there, my child also had the literal, overnight onset, her > " anniversary > date " is Dec. 8. See comments at ***** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 Pam, I thought it was not yet known whether damage persists once strep titers fall in PANDAS, this process has been characterized in papers as an " irritation " or " assault " on the basal ganglia. Some kid's symptoms tail off to nothing between exacerbations caused by the infection/immune response cycle, which holds out hope that the process does not cause permanent damage, at least not early on. I'm speaking here specifically of strep and PANDAS, I've only begun reading through the material you posted earlier and so know very little about Lyme and some of the other pathogens you have mentioned caused your son's OCD It's true a neg. test does not mean no chance that OCD was kicked off by a strep infection. I don't think there's any way to rule out...it's just that one showing elevated strep titers at the same point in time as abrupt onset or worsening of OCD/tics, is considered suggestive. I shouldn't have written in my initial post, that sky-high antibody titers would indicate strep etiology. I should have said suggest. Kathy R. in Indiana ----- Original Message ----- From: " Pamela Weintraub " <PWeintraub@... > yes, exactly, it is autoimmune. The damage remains even after the > antibodies subside. So a negative test does not negate an infectious > etiology. Pam Weintraub > > Kathy wrote on 2/13/2005, 11:29 PM: > > > > > Hi there, just a quick note that strep can infect other body parts, > > not just > > the throat. (Other sites: sinus, ear, rectum, skin, etc.) You might > > also > > want the blood test, if his strep titers are sky high it would > > indicate that > > his sudden-onset OCD is due to a strep infection. It is the high > > circulating antibodies to strep that cause the symptoms, not the strep > > germ > > itself, so many times PANDAS kids have abrupt onsets *after* the strep > > infection is cleared, *while* they have high circulating strep > > antibodies. > > > > Kathy R. in Indiana > > > > > Our list archives, bookmarks, files, and chat feature may be accessed at: > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group// . > Our list advisors are Gail B. , Ed.D., Tamar Chansky, Ph.D.( > http://www.worrywisekids.org ), Dan Geller, M.D.,Aureen Pinto Wagner, > Ph.D., ( http://www.lighthouse-press.com ). Our list moderators are > Birkhan, Castle, Fowler, Kathy Hammes, Joye, Kathy > Mac, Gail Pesses, and Kathy . Subscription issues or > suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at > louisharkins@... , louisharkins@... , > louisharkins@... . > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 The last thing I heard a while back was that they were more strongly believing that the damage will " eventually " become permanent. They guy we were working with at the NIH, told me (unofficially) that about 90% of the kids had some type of permanent problem 2 years later. (Although it was often mild). Interestingly enough, I was working on the Baby calendar for our newest addition, and looking through the other ones for comparison's sake and I came across something that just struck me. For the first several months of my son's life, he was really an easy going baby and a great sleeper. Then, I remember it was almost like a switch went off that around 9-10 months, he absolutely would not sleep in his room any more. He howled and cried for hours, if we let him. (This after being one that you could lay down and he'd be happy and play for a few minutes and then out like a light). We spent a few weeks, maybe even months trying everything to get him to sleep in his room. Well, I was looking in his baby book, and isn't it an odd enough coincidence that this all took place two weeks after a major strep infection!! I guess we'll never know, but I wonder how many of his childhood " incidents " were initial PANDAS attacks that went unrecognized. > I thought it was not yet known whether damage persists once strep > titers fall in PANDAS, this process has been characterized in papers > as an > " irritation " or " assault " on the basal ganglia. Some kid's symptoms > tail > off to nothing between exacerbations caused by the infection/immune > response > cycle, which holds out hope that the process does not cause permanent > damage, at least not early on. I'm speaking here specifically of > strep and > PANDAS, I've only begun reading through the material you posted > earlier and > so know very little about Lyme and some of the other pathogens you > have > mentioned caused your son's OCD > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2005 Report Share Posted February 13, 2005 yes, I think you are saying it correctly --my greater knowledge is in the Lyme area, where a very small bit of infection can cause an outsized immune response. The immune response works across the spectrum of a number of genetic (and associated physiologic) variables, and depending upon where one falls on the spectrum, you might have a true autoimmune response (ie infection is no longer required) or you might flare with flaring of the infection, even small amounts of infection. Let's face it, the immune response is not going to cycle in and out unless you have active chronic persistent infection, even if at very low level, driving it. In Lyme this is often the case,necessitating long-term treatment -though this last statement is controversial. The whole notion of chronic persistent infection is one of those areas in medicine that has provoked warfare amongst professionals. If you want to know more about Lyme email me privately and I can be of help. Pam Kathy wrote on 2/14/2005, 12:18 AM: > > Pam, I thought it was not yet known whether damage persists once strep > titers fall in PANDAS, this process has been characterized in papers > as an > " irritation " or " assault " on the basal ganglia. Some kid's symptoms tail > off to nothing between exacerbations caused by the infection/immune > response > cycle, which holds out hope that the process does not cause permanent > damage, at least not early on. I'm speaking here specifically of > strep and > PANDAS, I've only begun reading through the material you posted > earlier and > so know very little about Lyme and some of the other pathogens you have > mentioned caused your son's OCD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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