Re: Fw: Conquering Yeast/ Gut Treatment in Germany

[Guest guest]

Would Apple cider vinegar count?

> , where can you get fruit vinegar? and are there any negatives

> to this treatment?

> Patti

>

> - In , Moppett@T... wrote:

> >Forgot to add this.

> >

> >The fruit vinegar should be taken on an empty stomach for full

> impact. This is very important.

>

[Guest guest]

--, where can you get fruit vinegar? and are there any negatives

to this treatment?

Patti

- In , Moppett@T... wrote:

> Forgot to add this.

>

> The fruit vinegar should be taken on an empty stomach for full

impact. This is very important.

>

> Conquering Yeast/ Gut Treatment in Germany

>

>

> Dear listers,

>

> I am currently attending a Heilprakterin School which has beena

mind-boggling experience. I say this because we are hearing about the

other side of modern medicine, something which is not altogether new

for frequent visitors to these lists. Heilprakterinen are subject to

the same first State Exam in Germany as medical doctors. Areas such

as surgery and pharmaceutical know-how are not part of the curricula (

for obvious reasons). We do however learn how to give injections

sub-cutaneous up to i.m. but tis is the extent of our invasive medical

treatment.

>

>

> My daughter has improved dramatically over the years but there are

some glitches. Recently I decided that perhaps I should really try a

GFCF diet as her lab tests had indicated this. I had been loathe to do

this as she is a picky eater anyway and it would have been WW3 trying

to get this up and running.

>

> As Europe is full of neat and interesting sorts of health clinics, I

cast my eye around looking for a GFCF clinic just to try out a two

week stint in an enclosed space without the temptations to see if this

would make a difference. Not surprising, I couldn't find anything of

a sort..Gluten free yes but not together with cassein. I did find one

clinic which came with wonderful recommendations from a German lady I

have befriended by email. Before I take that step however, I will have

to get a prescription from my doctor so that the health insurance

kicks in.

>

> In the meantime, one of the teachers at my school introduced me to

the idea of Bach remedies, an area which I have not yet looked at but

has since certainly piqued my interest. The North American in me kept

rebelling against soft remedies thinking always you need toget the big

guns out for big problems..not always so. Homeopathy has taught me

otherwise.

>

> Dr. Bach was a microbiologist ( think he did surgery also)

who worked in a London hospital in the 1920s. He carried out tests on

all stool sent to his lab irregardless of the diagnosis. He observed a

particular bacteria which was elevated in all chronic illnesses. He

developed the idea to isolate this bacteria, develop a vaccine and

administer it orally. I don't know the name of this bacteria but it

appears to be one that only Bach has isolated and not recognised by

mainstream labs ( I love these sorts of things..may be it's part of

the puzzle which is being kept from us!!!)

>

> The interesting part of this is that a stool sample is taken and

sent to a SPECIAL BACH oriented lab. There seems to be a BIG

difference with the preparation of the sample and what is generally

required for lab samples at labs in the States.

>

> First of all, the Bach expert pointed out that certain bacteria

decompose on exposure to air. This should come as no surprise to us!

Therefore the lab sends you a special tube with a special preservative

with the purpose of maintaining these sorts of bacteria.

>

> Secondly and this certainly gave me much food for thought...I was

told to give my daughter 3 tablespoons of fruit vinegar ( OBSTESSIG)

in a glass of lukewarm water to drink the night BEFORE the stool

sample was to be taken. The Bach lady pointed out that yeast does not

like an acid environment. Lactic acid does ie Lactobacillus but not

yeast. Apparently, the fruit vinegar renders the gut so inhospitable

that the yeast crawl out of the crevices into the main intestinal

column. She said that they literally swim out! At some time in the

history of the labs, they noticed they were not getting high amounts

of the expected yeats, so tried this out and presto..lots of yeast in

the stool.

>

> It has occured to me that fruit vinegar ( apple also) may be an

idea to rid your child of yeast WITHOUT the die-off. I believe those

on SCD are not allowed vinegar so they will have to take this into

consideration.

>

> For children and adults with extreme sensitivities, gut and

otherwise, I would caution you to use just a little fruit vinegar to

make sure there is no horrible reaction before going on to the Full Monty.

>

> Anyway the treatment is not outrageouslessy expensive and is worth a

try. I sent in a sample last week and am waiting with baited breath.

>

> I tried the fruit vinegar also just to give my daughter moral

support. The next day I was more alert and had more energy. I know a

lot of Germans who use this daily as part of a regime to lose weight.

>

> I would love to hear back positive and negative from people who try

the fruit vinegar to rid yeast.

>

> I ahve NO idea where you can find Bach labs in the States to carry

out the above test. Maybe someone based in the States can help.

British and European residents can avail themselves of the Bach lab in

Berlin.

>

>

> in Germany

> -----

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

I have never heard of this lab before. Please let us know what (if

anything) they find. This must have been the same Dr Bach who

devised the Bach Flower remedies. (Several practitioners have tried

them on me; I found them totally ineffective.)

Margaret (UK)

-- In , " tiredmamma18042 "

<pattiecakef@v...> wrote:

> --, where can you get fruit vinegar? and are there any

negatives

> to this treatment?

> Patti

>

> - In , Moppett@T... wrote:

> > Forgot to add this.

> >

> > The fruit vinegar should be taken on an empty stomach for full

> impact. This is very important.

> >

> > Conquering Yeast/ Gut Treatment in Germany

> >

> >

> > Dear listers,

> >

> > I am currently attending a Heilprakterin School which has beena

> mind-boggling experience. I say this because we are hearing about

the

> other side of modern medicine, something which is not altogether

new

> for frequent visitors to these lists. Heilprakterinen are subject

to

> the same first State Exam in Germany as medical doctors. Areas

such

> as surgery and pharmaceutical know-how are not part of the

curricula (

> for obvious reasons). We do however learn how to give injections

> sub-cutaneous up to i.m. but tis is the extent of our invasive

medical

> treatment.

> >

> >

> > My daughter has improved dramatically over the years but there

are

> some glitches. Recently I decided that perhaps I should really try

a

> GFCF diet as her lab tests had indicated this. I had been loathe

to do

> this as she is a picky eater anyway and it would have been WW3

trying

> to get this up and running.

> >

> > As Europe is full of neat and interesting sorts of health

clinics, I

> cast my eye around looking for a GFCF clinic just to try out a two

> week stint in an enclosed space without the temptations to see if

this

> would make a difference. Not surprising, I couldn't find anything

of

> a sort..Gluten free yes but not together with cassein. I did find

one

> clinic which came with wonderful recommendations from a German

lady I

> have befriended by email. Before I take that step however, I will

have

> to get a prescription from my doctor so that the health insurance

> kicks in.

> >

> > In the meantime, one of the teachers at my school introduced me

to

> the idea of Bach remedies, an area which I have not yet looked at

but

> has since certainly piqued my interest. The North American in me

kept

> rebelling against soft remedies thinking always you need toget the

big

> guns out for big problems..not always so. Homeopathy has taught me

> otherwise.

> >

> > Dr. Bach was a microbiologist ( think he did surgery also)

> who worked in a London hospital in the 1920s. He carried out tests

on

> all stool sent to his lab irregardless of the diagnosis. He

observed a

> particular bacteria which was elevated in all chronic illnesses. He

> developed the idea to isolate this bacteria, develop a vaccine and

> administer it orally. I don't know the name of this bacteria but it

> appears to be one that only Bach has isolated and not recognised by

> mainstream labs ( I love these sorts of things..may be it's part of

> the puzzle which is being kept from us!!!)

> >

> > The interesting part of this is that a stool sample is taken and

> sent to a SPECIAL BACH oriented lab. There seems to be a BIG

> difference with the preparation of the sample and what is generally

> required for lab samples at labs in the States.

> >

> > First of all, the Bach expert pointed out that certain bacteria

> decompose on exposure to air. This should come as no surprise to

us!

> Therefore the lab sends you a special tube with a special

preservative

> with the purpose of maintaining these sorts of bacteria.

> >

> > Secondly and this certainly gave me much food for thought...I was

> told to give my daughter 3 tablespoons of fruit vinegar (

OBSTESSIG)

> in a glass of lukewarm water to drink the night BEFORE the stool

> sample was to be taken. The Bach lady pointed out that yeast does

not

> like an acid environment. Lactic acid does ie Lactobacillus but

not

> yeast. Apparently, the fruit vinegar renders the gut so

inhospitable

> that the yeast crawl out of the crevices into the main intestinal

> column. She said that they literally swim out! At some time in the

> history of the labs, they noticed they were not getting high

amounts

> of the expected yeats, so tried this out and presto..lots of yeast

in

> the stool.

> >

> > It has occured to me that fruit vinegar ( apple also) may be an

> idea to rid your child of yeast WITHOUT the die-off. I believe

those

> on SCD are not allowed vinegar so they will have to take this into

> consideration.

> >

> > For children and adults with extreme sensitivities, gut and

> otherwise, I would caution you to use just a little fruit vinegar

to

> make sure there is no horrible reaction before going on to the

Full Monty.

> >

> > Anyway the treatment is not outrageouslessy expensive and is

worth a

> try. I sent in a sample last week and am waiting with baited

breath.

> >

> > I tried the fruit vinegar also just to give my daughter moral

> support. The next day I was more alert and had more energy. I know

a

> lot of Germans who use this daily as part of a regime to lose

weight.

> >

> > I would love to hear back positive and negative from people who

try

> the fruit vinegar to rid yeast.

> >

> > I ahve NO idea where you can find Bach labs in the States to

carry

> out the above test. Maybe someone based in the States can help.

> British and European residents can avail themselves of the Bach

lab in

> Berlin.

> >

> >

> > in Germany

> > -----

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Moppett@T... wrote:

> The fruit vinegar should be taken on an empty stomach for full

impact. This is very important.

Hello

Thanks for this information. This would indicate that Heidi's hooch

turned into vinegar is an important part of our diet.

I have really enjoyed the hooch Heidi, so has my 74 year old mother!

Gayle

[Guest guest]

>Hello

>

>Thanks for this information. This would indicate that Heidi's hooch

>turned into vinegar is an important part of our diet.

Ah ... so, " new " hooch in the evening, for relaxing, " old " hooch (vinegar) in

the AM for cleansing ... I'm not sure what the " new " hooch does to

gut bacteria but it seems to be potent.

BTW I had some vinegar and I put it in a bottle with some garlic

cloves and now use it on salad ... I was looking for some garlic

vinegar since our old brand got discontinued at the market

and then I thought, " how silly ... I have a lot of organic

wonderful vinegar around, all it needs is some garlic! " .

>

>I have really enjoyed the hooch Heidi, so has my 74 year old mother!

Thanks!

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Ok....now I am listening!Please find out the name of that " Bach " bacteria.

This could be critical to curing our kids.!Thanks, R

[Guest guest]

I know!!

I was thinking the same thing myself.

I get the results in two/three weeks.

So I will let you know then what is written on the sheet.

Best,

Re: [ ] Re: Fw: Conquering Yeast/ Gut Treatment in

Germany

> Hi ,

> Ok....now I am listening!Please find out the name of that " Bach " bacteria.

> This could be critical to curing our kids.!Thanks, R

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

> Ah ... so, " new " hooch in the evening, for relaxing, " old " hooch

(vinegar) in

> the AM for cleansing ... I'm not sure what the " new " hooch does to

> gut bacteria but it seems to be potent.

So, what's the story on vinegar? Is it supposed to kill yeast or

feed yeast? I keep hearing both. Is our body supposed to be more

acidic or alkaline?

Robin

[Guest guest]

>So, what's the story on vinegar? Is it supposed to kill yeast or

>feed yeast? I keep hearing both. Is our body supposed to be more

>acidic or alkaline?

>

>Robin

Personally I can't understand why anyone would say it FEEDS yeast.

If you take some water, add sugar, add yeast, you'll see the yeast

grow. Do the same thing in another glass, only add some vinegar

to the mix. Vinegar tends to kill yeast ... so does alcohol, their

own byproduct (which is why they winemakers have developed

special yeasts so they can make high-alcohol wines).

Also, drinking another specie of yeast (kefir, for example)

would tend to compete with the bad yeasts, not feed

them.

You can grow yeast quite easily on your kitchen counter, and

baker's yeast is pretty harmless unless you are allergic to it,

so ... try growing some and see what it likes to eat ...

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

> Personally I can't understand why anyone would say it FEEDS yeast.

I don't know. I didn't think it would, but I was reading something

about it just the other day (sorry, I don't remember where I read

it) and it was saying that vinegar was not good in your diet because

it encourages an overgrowth of yeast. I remember hearing this

before. It never made sense to me, but then again, I still have a

lot to learn. Thanks for your input.

How do you know if a food is acidic or alkaline? Do you know if our

bodies as supposed to be more alkaline or acidic? How would you

know if you are too acidic or too alkaline.

Robin

[Guest guest]

> Personally I can't understand why anyone would say it FEEDS yeast.

People do say that quite often though on various websites. All I can

think of is that they think there are some ingredients in the dead

yeast which are good building materials for other yeasts. (If anyone

here is a fan of that idea, maybe they could list those components?)

>

> You can grow yeast quite easily on your kitchen counter, and

> baker's yeast is pretty harmless unless you are allergic to it,

> so ... try growing some and see what it likes to eat ...

>

>

If it is in fact the dead yeast that is supposed to feed the other

types of yeast, adding vinegar might not give you an answer. You

might need a neutral solution of dead yeast. But if it did grow

better, you'd still need some kind of control because the benefit to

the yeast might not be from any yeast-specific molecules but just

from the extra vitamins, amino acids etc. that would be in the body

anyway in amounts much greater than what would be contained in a

little vinegar.

marty

[Guest guest]

>If it is in fact the dead yeast that is supposed to feed the other

>types of yeast, adding vinegar might not give you an answer. You

>might need a neutral solution of dead yeast. But if it did grow

>better, you'd still need some kind of control because the benefit to

>the yeast might not be from any yeast-specific molecules but just

>from the extra vitamins, amino acids etc. that would be in the body

>anyway in amounts much greater than what would be contained in a

>little vinegar.

>

>marty

Like I said, try it on you kitchen counter! This is one experiment you CAN

do at home!

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>How do you know if a food is acidic or alkaline? Do you know if our

>bodies as supposed to be more alkaline or acidic? How would you

>know if you are too acidic or too alkaline.

>

>Robin

I always thought the acid/base thing was a bunch of bunk, but

then I read what Loren Cordain wrote about it ... he is someone

who does research. His take is basically that you need certain

chemicals to offset other chemicals ... I think the term " acid "

and " base " confuses the issue because they aren't really talking

about H+ and OH- (acid and base).

Basically most of your fruits and vegies (even lemons and kimchi)

are " alkaline " and meat, salt, dairy are " acidic " . Just eat lots of salads

and kimchi.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Then again, other people who have done research say that the acidity

of the ash is irrelevant. Some foods turn acidic in some people, and

alkaline in others, depending on their metabolic type. (Wolcott,

Metabolic Typing Diet)

What always confused me, prior to reading that, is that everybody's

lists were different!!

Personally (and maybe I;m wrong) it always seemed to me that it was

picked up on to justify vegetarian diets.

deb

>

> >How do you know if a food is acidic or alkaline? Do you know if

our

> >bodies as supposed to be more alkaline or acidic? How would you

> >know if you are too acidic or too alkaline.

> >

> >Robin

>

> I always thought the acid/base thing was a bunch of bunk, but

> then I read what Loren Cordain wrote about it ... he is someone

> who does research. His take is basically that you need certain

> chemicals to offset other chemicals ... I think the term " acid "

> and " base " confuses the issue because they aren't really talking

> about H+ and OH- (acid and base).

>

> Basically most of your fruits and vegies (even lemons and kimchi)

> are " alkaline " and meat, salt, dairy are " acidic " . Just eat lots

of salads

> and kimchi.

>

> -- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>Personally (and maybe I;m wrong) it always seemed to me that it was

>picked up on to justify vegetarian diets.

>

>deb

I thought that too, until I read Cordain, like I said. HE used it

to justify the " Paleo Diet " ... which has lots of fruit and

vegies, and no grain. I think there is good reason to think,

for example, that meat eaters need a good bit of calcium ...

and most meat eaters get it, from chewing bones. I personally

would not have thought of calcium (or potassium) as " alkaline "

but basically I think they are meaning it forms " + " ions (and

so uses a '-OH' = alkali) vs stuff like Cl (chlorine) which is a " - "

ion (and so uses a 'H+' = acid). But can correct me

on the chemistry.

As for acidosis ... human beings don't go into acidosis

unless they are REALLY sick, the body works to keep the

blood very stable, so I think the risk is sort of overblown.

But I do feel a lot better with a balance of food ... right now

I've been eating a LOT of greens, since we have this great organic

farmer down the hill and I'm getting addicted, and my usual steak

or hamburger, and I really do feel good. I suppose you could use

any language ... the " yin " in the steak balances the " yang " in the

salad, or vice versa, but shoot, it works.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Yes, I can't argue with anything you've said there. I guess I just

don't like to think of anyone getting hung up on eating to get an

acid / alkaline balance when that doesn't seem to be an absolute.

Yin and yang always makes more sense to me, but even then you have

to look at the state of the person, it has no meaning on it's own.

It's just clicked to me, I suppose that's what I meant originally -

that any form of balance has to take into account what is being

balanced.

deb

>

> >Personally (and maybe I;m wrong) it always seemed to me that it

was

> >picked up on to justify vegetarian diets.

> >

> >deb

>

> I thought that too, until I read Cordain, like I said. HE used it

> to justify the " Paleo Diet " ... which has lots of fruit and

> vegies, and no grain. I think there is good reason to think,

> for example, that meat eaters need a good bit of calcium ...

> and most meat eaters get it, from chewing bones. I personally

> would not have thought of calcium (or potassium) as " alkaline "

> but basically I think they are meaning it forms " + " ions (and

> so uses a '-OH' = alkali) vs stuff like Cl (chlorine) which is a " -

"

> ion (and so uses a 'H+' = acid). But can correct me

> on the chemistry.

>

> As for acidosis ... human beings don't go into acidosis

> unless they are REALLY sick, the body works to keep the

> blood very stable, so I think the risk is sort of overblown.

> But I do feel a lot better with a balance of food ... right now

> I've been eating a LOT of greens, since we have this great organic

> farmer down the hill and I'm getting addicted, and my usual steak

> or hamburger, and I really do feel good. I suppose you could use

> any language ... the " yin " in the steak balances the " yang " in the

> salad, or vice versa, but shoot, it works.

>

> -- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>Yes, I can't argue with anything you've said there. I guess I just

>don't like to think of anyone getting hung up on eating to get an

>acid / alkaline balance when that doesn't seem to be an absolute.

>

>Yin and yang always makes more sense to me, but even then you have

>to look at the state of the person, it has no meaning on it's own.

>It's just clicked to me, I suppose that's what I meant originally -

>that any form of balance has to take into account what is being

>balanced.

>

>deb

Yeah ... actually I keep a food diary and figure out what works for *me*.

There are a lot of variables for each person ... rules help sometimes.

My basic rules are: " Meat is good. Fruis and vegies are good " .

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

I think the difference is what kind of vinegar you use. Is it some

storebought kind or live? When intending to kill yeasts, use live

vinegar. I think whenever you ingest much of it, you should use live

vinegar, when you just use vinegar for cleaning your bathroom, use

whatever is cheapest and works

CU Anja

> So, what's the story on vinegar? Is it supposed to kill yeast or

> feed yeast? I keep hearing both. Is our body supposed to be more

> acidic or alkaline?

> Robin

[Guest guest]

> I think the difference is what kind of vinegar you use. Is it some

> storebought kind or live? When intending to kill yeasts, use live

> vinegar.

What would be your reason for this? What is it about the non-

pasteurized vinegar that you think would kill yeasts that is

different from the pasteurized vinegar?

marty

[Guest guest]

> I think the difference is what kind of vinegar you use. Is it some

> storebought kind or live?

I use Bragg's vinegar. It says it's raw and unfiltered on the

bottle.

Robin

[Guest guest]

Heidi-

>I always thought the acid/base thing was a bunch of bunk, but

>then I read what Loren Cordain wrote about it ... he is someone

>who does research.

Loren Cordain is someone who does distorted research, anyway. I don't know

whether he intentionally lies (to himself or to everyone else) or whether

he's honestly deceived, but have you read his arguments against saturated

animal fat?

-