More WD questions

[Guest guest]

Hey again everyone, I have some more questions about the WD.

I've been on it for 5 days now and I wouldn't say that I feel " free "

or fabulous but I do feel a slight increase in energy. What's

worrying me is that I hear some people saying to eat protein if I

work out or am active - what exactly constitutes as active? I'm a

student so the most activity I get during the day w/o working out is

walking between classes or shopping on weekends. I do cardio 3x for

30-45 min and light weight training 3x for 40-45 min a week. Also,

the guides online say to eat lowfat protein (I haven't had a chance

to read the book and my library doesn't carry it) but I also hear

about people drinking cream in their breakfast shakes.. so which is

correct? Lowfat or regular?

I also find that I'm not very hungry at all during the day, I can

pretty much get through with only a grapefruit + tsp of coconut oil

for breakfast and maybe a small salad for lunch (less than 1 cup of

lettuce). Should I be eating more or following my hunger signals,

because I find that if I go for a period without food I just don't

feel hungry anymore. (and should I be putting any sort of dressing on

the day salad, like watered down nut butter or vinaigrette?)

And are the supplements absolutely necessary if I'm not struggling

with hunger pangs, or do they have some other use?

What would be really, really helpful is if someone can post a menu of

what he/she eats during the day AND the order he/she eats the big

dinner at night; I find that I end up eating a normal meal of around

6 oz meat and 3-4 cups of veg, maybe a starch w/ fat, and then graze

an hour later on a very small cup of yogurt w/ fruit. Should I

instead eat 3 small meals spread out, or continue my current way of

eating?

Thanks so much for all your help!! I know I'm kind of insufferable

but this is the first group that actually makes me feel accepted,

so... tells you a lot about me, huh?

Thanks again

Nina

[Guest guest]

>What would be really, really helpful is if someone can post a menu of

>what he/she eats during the day AND the order he/she eats the big

>dinner at night; I find that I end up eating a normal meal of around

>6 oz meat and 3-4 cups of veg, maybe a starch w/ fat, and then graze

>an hour later on a very small cup of yogurt w/ fruit. Should I

>instead eat 3 small meals spread out, or continue my current way of

>eating?

You know, I wouldn't stress about it. Here is why: You have built

into you a VERY sensitive chemistry lab, which is tracking every

single thing about your body. Sometimes it gets out of whack,

and you end up hungry all the time, or can't choke down

enough food and get all skinny. But, if you are not hungry all

day, and eat til you are full at night, and are not anorexically thin,

and feel good, then the chances are your body is getting what it needs.

You may find on this diet that you NEED less. I have ... I ate

a LOT at first, then became satisfied with less and less. I

switched fats and stopped eating so many nuts because

I wanted to lose weight faster, but otherwise, if I get hungry

during the day I eat something, and at night I eat til

I don't feel like eating any more.

But here is my general menu at the moment:

AM: One grapefruit (I don't know why, I crave grapefruit at the moment).

Lunch: A salad, with olive oil and MCT, maybe some lox or smoked chicken.

If I'm hungry: Anchitos (fried dried anchovies) or coconut candy balls.

Dinner: a steak or some chicken, leftover salad, hash browns or some

other potato, any vegies that are handy, kimchi, wine. I usually do the salad

first, then meat, then starch, but not always. Or, a big bowl of some soup

(the soup is too filling, I can't eat it with anything else).

Now, I have too much body fat at the moment, and I figure my body

*shouldn't* want so many calories since it has plenty to burn already

stored up. Ori has very little body fat, and he works out hard ... and he's

a guy, and he probably eats a LOT MORE than most folks. But I feel

fine, my metabolism hasn't slowed down (which it has on every other

diet I've been on, you can tell because you get cold all the time) and I

don't have dry skin so I'm getting enough fat.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

> But, if you are not hungry all

> day, and eat til you are full at night,

I thought we were meant to over eat? Ie until we were stuffed?

Eating until full would, for me, be eating enough, not over eating.

Unless I eat loads at night, I need full breakfast and lunch.

>

AM: One grapefruit (I don't know why, I crave grapefruit at the

moment).

> Lunch: A salad, with olive oil and MCT, maybe some lox or smoked

chicken.

> If I'm hungry: Anchitos (fried dried anchovies) or coconut candy

balls.

I thought the daytime WD was raw carbs and lean protein only? I've

been purposely avoiding anything I would consider high fat, eg olive

oil and coconut, parma ham etc. I have the same confusion as Nina

over this point.

It occurs to me that what you are doing is pretty much the

carbohydrate addict's diet by the Hellers.

As you can tell, I haven't read the book yet.

Jo

[Guest guest]

>I thought we were meant to over eat? Ie until we were stuffed?

>Eating until full would, for me, be eating enough, not over eating.

>Unless I eat loads at night, I need full breakfast and lunch.

At first I stuffed myself ... it took awhile before I was ok with not

eating during the day. It got better when I started eating BIG steaks at

night (well, 10 oz or so, anyway). But then I started just getting full

faster. I think you just have to experiment and see what works for you.

If you get hungry during the day unless you overeat, then you should

overeat.

You mention having chocolate during the day ... I would stay away from

anything sweet, at least at first (unless it is no-carb chocolate).

You might have to go through a day or two of hunger, to

let yourself get HUNGRY at night so you eat the right amount.

But your stomach has to stretch a little too, to get used to it.

It really is an adaptive process. I jumped right into it

and forced myself, but I felt pretty lousy for awhile.

>I thought the daytime WD was raw carbs and lean protein only? I've

>been purposely avoiding anything I would consider high fat, eg olive

>oil and coconut, parma ham etc. I have the same confusion as Nina

>over this point.

>

>It occurs to me that what you are doing is pretty much the

>carbohydrate addict's diet by the Hellers.

I've heard they are very similar. Ori doesn't recommend fat, at least

not fat meat. One reason being, as I recall, that the meat most people

eat is grain fed, so the fat isn't a good fat (high in Omega 6's). However

I borrowed some ideas from Cliff Sheats and NT, so what I do is

sort of my version. I think people need a bit of fat to feel

satisfied, at least I do, plus most carbs tend to raise your blood

sugar. Plus coconut oil keeps your metabolism high, which is good

for losing weight.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 23:56:12 -0000

" jopollack2001 " <jopollack2001@...> wrote:

>

> > But, if you are not hungry all

> > day, and eat til you are full at night,

>

> I thought we were meant to over eat? Ie until we were stuffed?

> Eating until full would, for me, be eating enough, not over eating.

> Unless I eat loads at night, I need full breakfast and lunch.

In my opinion, if you can manage it, one of the secrets to success on

the WD is taking Ori seriously when he says to make the evening meal a

*feast*. When I eat a real feast at night the next day is *much* easier

throughout the day. In my case I'm rarely if ever hungry and my energy

levels are quite high even when I'm exercising vigorously on a regular

basis.

I think for some folks the feast meal presents both a psychological and

physical limitation, they just can't force themselves to eat that much

food over a 4 hour period. Me, I eat and drink a *lot* over that time

span and it makes the day pretty much a breeze.

I think however if you can't bring yourself to eat a lot, at least at

first until your body makes the transition, the WD can present a

challenge.

I also think the feast " limitation " for some folks is similar to the fat

" limitation " that some folks have with the Atkins Diet, they just can't

believe that eating *lots* of fat is good for them. Thus setting

themselves up for failure because low carb diets of the Atkins sort need

to incorporate lots of fat in order to be able to stick with it..

> >

> AM: One grapefruit (I don't know why, I crave grapefruit at the

> moment).

> > Lunch: A salad, with olive oil and MCT, maybe some lox or smoked

> chicken.

> > If I'm hungry: Anchitos (fried dried anchovies) or coconut candy

> balls.

>

> I thought the daytime WD was raw carbs and lean protein only? I've

> been purposely avoiding anything I would consider high fat, eg olive

> oil and coconut, parma ham etc. I have the same confusion as Nina

> over this point.

Ori mentions fruit and vegetable juices, he also mentions fruit and

veggies, lean protein, cultured dairy and some other items during the

fasting/undereating phase.

I think however that it is the principle that is most important, that is

eating the bulk of your food at the feast meal. So if you are hungry

during the day then eat just enough to get rid of the hunger, like a can

of sardines, but save most of your food for dinner. Personally I'm

partial to all the products of the coconut during the undereating phase,

as they provide satiating fats and metbolic increase which is good for

getting lean. I also like fish and cultured dairy as sources of day time

protein.

But this is something everyone can work out for themselves.

>

> It occurs to me that what you are doing is pretty much the

> carbohydrate addict's diet by the Hellers.

Superficially, especially regarding the reward meal, yes. But it is

really just an apparent similarity, not a real one.

The *New* Ten Commandments

http://tinyurl.com/245sr

" They told just the same,

That just because a tyrant has the might

By force of arms to murder men downright

And burn down house and home and leave all flat

They call the man a captain, just for that.

But since an outlaw with his little band

Cannot bring half such mischief on the land

Or be the cause of so much harm and grief,

He only earns the title of a thief. "

--Geoffrey Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale

[Guest guest]

>> I also think the feast " limitation " for some folks is similar to the fat

" limitation " that some folks have with the Atkins Diet, they just can't

believe that eating *lots* of fat is good for them. Thus setting

themselves up for failure because low carb diets of the Atkins sort need

to incorporate lots of fat in order to be able to stick with it.. <<

I agree with this completely. There are several obstacles I see people stumbling

at with Atkins, including they eat too little, they eat too much processed food,

and some who insist on eating TOO MUCH. But the biggest one is NOT ENOUGH FAT.

No matter that Dr. Atkins said in plain English, " This is a high fat, low carb,

moderate protein diet, " the media continues to portray it as being high protein,

and people continue to try to minimize their fat intake. I doubt I'd have had

the success I've had on Atkins, if I hadn't first been de-brainwashed by NT as

regards dietary fat!

Christie

[Guest guest]

Nina (miffytiramisu) asked:

" What kind of vegetable juice do you drink? I'm thinking of juicing

in the morning, but I've never juiced vegetables before so I don't

know what kinds are suitable (other than carrots and celery). "

Right now I buy this Vita Sea juice from Columbia Gorge Organic

Vitration from the local food co-op. It contains a blend of organic

fruit juices/purees with wheat grass juice and other grain grass

juices plus spiralina, kelp, and royal jelly. It's green but tastes

good!

I'd like to juice my own (and have a great juicer) but no time at

work...

M

[Guest guest]

> No matter that Dr. Atkins said in plain English, " This is a high

fat, low carb, moderate protein diet, " the media continues to portray

it as being high protein, and people continue to try to minimize

their fat intake. I doubt I'd have had the success I've had on

Atkins, if I hadn't first been de-brainwashed by NT as regards

dietary fat!

======> I haven't even read Atkins but this is really interesting to

me. I have read other low-carb books, and follow Protein Power. I

seem to have ignored their emphasis on lean meats etc. though. I've

done a bit of tracking using www.fitday.com and my fat intake is

always in the 75% range. If it weren't for cheese, I think I'd be

eating less fat.

Ghislaine

[Guest guest]

At 06:48 PM 4/19/04 -0000, you wrote:

>If it weren't for cheese, I think I'd be

>eating less fat.

>

>Ghislaine

>

*sung to the tune of the Spam song* ...

Cheese cheese CHEESE cheese .... !!!!

Yum.

MFJ

Wheeeeee! ~Katja

[Guest guest]

> In my opinion, if you can manage it, one of the secrets to success

on

> the WD is taking Ori seriously when he says to make the evening

meal a

> *feast*.

I agree. The more I eat at night, the less hungry I wake up.

Since Jo asked in another email, here's what I eat on the WD:

undereating phase:

3 raw whole eggs upon waking

snack: 2 raw egg yolks

snack: 1 bunch of celery sticks

snack: 2 raw egg yolks

pre-working out: some quality protein mix

overeeating phase:

4-5 slices bacon

6 scrambled eggs (with garlic, pepper, and spices)

2 pieces manna bread, toasted with butter

1 lb of steak

2 large heaping platefulls of steamed kale with butter

1/2 lb hamburger with ezekiel bread hamburger buns, butter, onions,

maybe bacon, ketchup, salt

a couple pieces of ezekiel bread dipped in ev olive oil

a pint of hagen daz (i've been finding flavors on clearance sale--

can't beat 1360 calories for $1.79. i'd ideally make my own)

an unfiltered, unpasteurized beer.

sometimes a glass of orange juice.

Chris