RE: can fats be allergenic? or otherwise problematic on an elimination diet?

[Guest guest]

e:

>Aren't proteins the only things that are allergenic? I know that carbs can

>be problematic in other ways, such as if one lacks the enzymes to digest

>them, but what about fats? I'm still in the elimination phase of my diet and

>I'm wondering if I should return to taking my cod liver oil dose, as it's

>part of the protocol my naturopath has me on for my inactive thyroid. Plus

>I'm getting almost no vits A and D right now and feel I could use some.

Technically anything can be allergenic, but I think you are right, usually it's

proteins.

The " allergic " response is the body thinking a protein is really a virus or

bacteria

and acting accordingly. Most fats though contain bits of proteins, not much.

I've

never had a reaction to meats though, or fish, so I don't think about them

much as allergens.

When people say " food intolerance " they all get lumped together,

but you are right, the problems with sugars and starches are different,

the issue is usually digestibility. I was thinking about the gas

issue and really, cukes and cabbage are noted for that (hence the

" burpless cucumber " ). The issues with proteins have to do with

digestion too ... if you fully digest casein and gliadin they don't

have much chance to do damage (but the peptide bits left from digestion

would probably hurt a sensitized person anyway).

>I also would like to cook with coconut oil - should I shy away from CO

>during my elimination phase? I did eat it daily prior to the ED. Right now

>I'm cooking with either ghee or organic lard. So far, the ghee seems fine

>and I'm not sure about the lard yet. I'll probably know shortly as I'm

>frying apple slices in lard now and will have just that and fish this

>morning.

I never stopped using butter until recently, when I noticed I got the big D when

I went out (I usually put butter on potatoes when I'm out). Then I experimented

at home, and sho nuff, butter is a problem. Not a big problem though, doesn't

make me feel bad. I never tried ghee though.

If it was me I wouldn't worry about the oils at this stage ... if they DO bother

you it's probably slight compared to the other stuff, and you can

deal with them later. CO is probably the least problematic though, and olive

oil.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

I would definitely get back on the cod liver oil.

Why would you stay away from coconut oil, knowing it helps rev up your

thyroid? Shouldn't you use it frequently, and even eat VCO by itself?

Why are you doing the elimination diet? It isn't supposed to help

your thyroid, is it?

> Aren't proteins the only things that are allergenic? I know that

carbs can

> be problematic in other ways, such as if one lacks the enzymes to digest

> them, but what about fats? I'm still in the elimination phase of my

diet and

> I'm wondering if I should return to taking my cod liver oil dose, as

it's

> part of the protocol my naturopath has me on for my inactive

thyroid. Plus

> I'm getting almost no vits A and D right now and feel I could use some.

>

> I also would like to cook with coconut oil - should I shy away from CO

> during my elimination phase? I did eat it daily prior to the ED.

Right now

> I'm cooking with either ghee or organic lard. So far, the ghee seems

fine

> and I'm not sure about the lard yet. I'll probably know shortly as I'm

> frying apple slices in lard now and will have just that and fish this

> morning.

>

>

>

>

> Suze Fisher

> Lapdog Design, Inc.

> Web Design & Development

> http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

> Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

> http://www.westonaprice.org

>

> ----------------------------

> ?The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

> heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.?

--

> Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

> University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

>

> The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

> <http://www.thincs.org>

> ----------------------------

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>I never stopped using butter until recently, when I noticed I got

>the big D when

>I went out (I usually put butter on potatoes when I'm out). Then I

>experimented

>at home, and sho nuff, butter is a problem. Not a big problem

>though, doesn't

>make me feel bad. I never tried ghee though.

Is the butter that gave you a problem *100%* fat? I only eat WFN ghee and

Kerry Gold butter now as both are top quality 100% fat. I can see where

you'd have a problem with butter that's got casein in it though.

>

>If it was me I wouldn't worry about the oils at this stage ... if

>they DO bother

>you it's probably slight compared to the other stuff, and you can

>deal with them later. CO is probably the least problematic though,

>and olive oil.

Ohhhhh...now that's *music* to my ears! :-)

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

> Re: can fats be allergenic? or otherwise problematic on an

>elimination diet?

>

>

>I would definitely get back on the cod liver oil.

>

>Why would you stay away from coconut oil, knowing it helps rev up your

>thyroid? Shouldn't you use it frequently, and even eat VCO by itself?

Because the protocol that Deb posted said not to eat anything that you ate

regularly before the elimination diet. I ate CO daily.

>

>Why are you doing the elimination diet? It isn't supposed to help

>your thyroid, is it?

Not that I'm aware of. I'm doing it because I've been chronically bloated

for over 5 months and suspect food intolerance + yeast overgrowth.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

>Is the butter that gave you a problem *100%* fat? I only eat WFN ghee and

>Kerry Gold butter now as both are top quality 100% fat. I can see where

>you'd have a problem with butter that's got casein in it though.

I think all butter has a little casein. If you fry it in a pan, you get little

brown bits, which are casein. Ghee has all that gone though (which

is what makes it easier to cook with).

Really, if it's an allergic reaction

it only takes MOLECULES of the stuff to set off the immune system.

I haven't tried ghee though. I don't use butter much anyway, as

I am impatient ... it takes awhile to melt ... but I did get some Indian

Ghee at the India store so I'll try it one of these days.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

> RE: can fats be allergenic? or otherwise problematic on an

>elimination diet?

>

>

>

>>Is the butter that gave you a problem *100%* fat? I only eat WFN ghee and

>>Kerry Gold butter now as both are top quality 100% fat. I can see where

>>you'd have a problem with butter that's got casein in it though.

>

>I think all butter has a little casein.

Oh brother...now we're going to have to call you " The Caseinator " too. LOL!

How about " Gluto-caseinator " ? snicker. <g>

Are you SURE about that though? Kerry Gold, for example, says on the package

that 100% of the calories are from fat.

If you fry it in a pan,

>you get little

>brown bits, which are casein. Ghee has all that gone though (which

>is what makes it easier to cook with).

You know, now that you mention it, I don't recall ever seeing that brown

stuff with the ghee.

>

>Really, if it's an allergic reaction

>it only takes MOLECULES of the stuff to set off the immune system.

>I haven't tried ghee though. I don't use butter much anyway, as

>I am impatient ... it takes awhile to melt ... but I did get some Indian

>Ghee at the India store so I'll try it one of these days.

If you leave the ghee at room temp (or butter for that matter) you don't

have to wait for it to melt. I like WFN ghee - I think it's from the Wetzel

farm, but not certain. It's much yellower than the ghee at my HFS, and is

raw, which is nice, and which doesn't make it true ghee in that sense. And

the label says it's over 2% CLA - a nice little added benefit.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

>Oh brother...now we're going to have to call you " The Caseinator " too. LOL!

>How about " Gluto-caseinator " ? snicker. <g>

Eh, I'm not really anti-casein. I don't think it is nearly as big an issue,

and since it seems to be ok if it's hydrolyzed, anyone with a decent

stomach can probably handle it. I tend to think it's a secondary

allergy, and it probably wouldn't form opioids if the person didn't

already have a leaky gut.

>Are you SURE about that though? Kerry Gold, for example, says on the package

>that 100% of the calories are from fat.

Yeah, but fry with it and you'll get little brown bits burning in it.

They probably contribute very little to the caloric content.

>If you fry it in a pan,

>>you get little

>>brown bits, which are casein. Ghee has all that gone though (which

>>is what makes it easier to cook with).

>

>You know, now that you mention it, I don't recall ever seeing that brown

>stuff with the ghee.

Long time ago when I read a book about making ghee, getting

rid of that was the main point about making it (and it stores better).

>If you leave the ghee at room temp (or butter for that matter) you don't

>have to wait for it to melt. I like WFN ghee - I think it's from the Wetzel

>farm, but not certain. It's much yellower than the ghee at my HFS, and is

>raw, which is nice, and which doesn't make it true ghee in that sense. And

>the label says it's over 2% CLA - a nice little added benefit.

Yeah, I just can't get used to keeping butter at room temp. It's

on my " things to think about someday " list. For today I squished up

some blackberries from last year's harvest and hung them in a bag,

got all the juice out, mixed it with fizz water to make blackberry

fizzes ... ummm .. looking for ways to use up the berries because I'm

betting we'll have a great harvest this year.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

> RE: can fats be allergenic? or otherwise problematic on an

>elimination diet?

>

>

>

>>Oh brother...now we're going to have to call you " The Caseinator "

>too. LOL!

>>How about " Gluto-caseinator " ? snicker. <g>

>

>Eh, I'm not really anti-casein. I don't think it is nearly as big an issue,

>and since it seems to be ok if it's hydrolyzed, anyone with a decent

>stomach can probably handle it. I tend to think it's a secondary

>allergy, and it probably wouldn't form opioids if the person didn't

>already have a leaky gut.

So let me get this straight...you can't eat butter because the trace amounts

of casein bother you BUT you *can* drink kefir/kefilli and their byproducts

because the casein is hydrolized? I'm very interested in this because I'm

DYING to get raw cream back into my life. I miss it so much but I cut out

cow dairy two months ago and ALL dairy (I was drinking goat kefir) a couple

weeks ago, except ghee. I'm going to measure the brix index of all local

cream sources in late May/early June when the grass is growing rapidly and

try to have a little of the highest brix cream. I'm hoping I'll be OK with

it. I'll probably kefirize it to be safe.

>

>Yeah, I just can't get used to keeping butter at room temp. It's

>on my " things to think about someday " list. For today I squished up

>some blackberries from last year's harvest and hung them in a bag,

>got all the juice out, mixed it with fizz water to make blackberry

>fizzes ... ummm .. looking for ways to use up the berries because I'm

>betting we'll have a great harvest this year.

You are lucky to have so many wild berries!

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

>So let me get this straight...you can't eat butter because the trace amounts

>of casein bother you BUT you *can* drink kefir/kefilli and their byproducts

>because the casein is hydrolized? I'm very interested in this because I'm

>DYING to get raw cream back into my life. I miss it so much but I cut out

>cow dairy two months ago and ALL dairy (I was drinking goat kefir) a couple

>weeks ago, except ghee. I'm going to measure the brix index of all local

>cream sources in late May/early June when the grass is growing rapidly and

>try to have a little of the highest brix cream. I'm hoping I'll be OK with

>it. I'll probably kefirize it to be safe.

I really don't *know* and so I'm still experimenting. I don't have any

immediate reaction to dairy products ... but sometimes I get a migraine

24 hours after I eat it. Which makes it darn hard to figure out. When I

was eating a lot of cream, I was getting 5 migraines a week, which

was depressing. Then I cut most of it out, except the kefir, and got

very few, say 4 a month. Now I'm experimenting with no kefir either, and I

haven't

got any since early March. (though I have had some bread with kefir in

it and a few other things).

But ... there are other things that cause migraines, and my blood sugar

keeps getting more stable too, and I'm losing weight, all of which

may be factors. I'll have to do more experimenting! I do think

the plain cream is problematic, for me. I'm not sure the reaction

that causes the migraines is the same that may be causing your

bloating though ... I suspect it is more an opioid style reaction,

because it affects me mainly neurologically (I also get really fuzzy-headed

and my eyes go fuzzy too, I can't read roadsigns without a

higher prescription of glasses).

>You are lucky to have so many wild berries!

Some of them are wild. We planted a mess of them too. This year

I staked up the raspberries, and we cleaned out the blueberries,

but we planted a lot of them a few years back. I'm also trellising some of the

wild

blackberries to make them easier to pick.

Another thing we did was that we found some hybrids that popped

up, and we cleared out the OTHER berries from around them. I don't

know what they are, likely a cross between the raspberries and

blackberries, but they are REALLY productive.

Anyone can have berries, tho the type depends on where you live.

The blueberries do well here, and they are great landscaping items,

don't take much room. I highly encourage folks to plant them! Once

you have them, they are the EASIEST gardening a person can

do. Right up there with nut trees ... all of these things don't cost

much when they are little, all you have to do really is stick them

in the ground somewhere.

-- Heidi Jean

BTW I " planted " some almonds in the worm bin and they all

sprouted ... now I have 10 baby almond trees in some pots!

I have no idea if almond trees grow well in this area, but I guess

we'll find out.