Re: Mercury interferes with enzyme that digests gluten and casein

[Guest guest]

>Could be one reason so many modern folks have problems with these two foods

>since the level of mercury emmissions and the amount from amalgams is

>extremely high these days. And can't help thinking about those Swiss that

>Price studied having rye gluten as a staple food and thriving. Genetics?

>Relatively heavy metal free lives? Food quality? So many possibilities!

Celiac was first described about 100 AD though, and the Egyptians

and Assyrians had the first wheat-related health problems. By all accounts,

the first grain farmers had health problems that were unknown to the paleos,

and there is no reason to believe they had any more mercury in their systems.

Also, there were a LOT more deaths of infants from diarrhea ( " the flux " ) at the

turn of the century ... they never made it to adulthood to be sickly adults. It

is

thought that this is the first generation to have wheat-sensitive folks actually

grow up to complain about it. Although at the turn of the century they also

were rather lackadaisical about mercury (it was in a lot of the " medicines " of

the day,

and Hooke, I think, drank liquid mercury to help his stomach problems (!). Also

it

doesn't explain Price's observations that natives got sickly after " white flour

and sugar "

were introduced to their trading posts ... certainly they weren't having

amalgams done?

Even today, most of the people diagnosed with gluten intolerance are like 2

years

old ... they might be getting mercury by breast feeding, but in fact breast fed

babies have fewer problems.

I suspect those isolated Swiss communities just lacked the gene involved.

And/or they breast fed longer, and they were dealing with rye,

not wheat, as the first food fed to kids. And it was whole rye, not finely

ground,

which for some reason seems easier on the body?

I'm not sure our level of mercury exposure is actually greater now though.

Back in the 1800's, and even when I was a kid, liquid mercury wasn't thought

to be terribly toxic, nor were mercury chemicals, you could buy them and

experiment with them (I had some, in fact, and my Mom had a pint of

liquid mercury she used to play with). I used to see experiments in books

that called for a container of mercury (for kids). Not that people didn't get

sick off it. Who knows how they disposed of it (poured it down the sink?

Tossed it in the bushes, next to the well shed?).

Maybe it is a vicious cycle. Most people *don't* have enzymes to digest

gluten, I don't know about casein, and a lot of people don't have very

acidic stomachs in the first place.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

What about sprouted bread, if it has gluten in it does this mean that a

person wiith celiac allergic reation would happen?. And what if the grains

are certified organicallly grown? Does this still have an impact on the

ability to digest and assimalate this food? Something else has change in

the diet of modern man and woman. Could it be not enough gut

probotic?..........steve

>From: Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: Mercury interferes with enzyme that digests gluten and

>casein

>Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 23:09:15 -0700

>

>

> >Could be one reason so many modern folks have problems with these two

>foods

> >since the level of mercury emmissions and the amount from amalgams is

> >extremely high these days. And can't help thinking about those Swiss that

> >Price studied having rye gluten as a staple food and thriving. Genetics?

> >Relatively heavy metal free lives? Food quality? So many possibilities!

>

>Celiac was first described about 100 AD though, and the Egyptians

>and Assyrians had the first wheat-related health problems. By all accounts,

>the first grain farmers had health problems that were unknown to the

>paleos,

>and there is no reason to believe they had any more mercury in their

>systems.

>Also, there were a LOT more deaths of infants from diarrhea ( " the flux " ) at

>the

>turn of the century ... they never made it to adulthood to be sickly

>adults. It is

>thought that this is the first generation to have wheat-sensitive folks

>actually

>grow up to complain about it. Although at the turn of the century they also

>were rather lackadaisical about mercury (it was in a lot of the " medicines "

>of the day,

>and Hooke, I think, drank liquid mercury to help his stomach problems (!).

>Also it

>doesn't explain Price's observations that natives got sickly after " white

>flour and sugar "

>were introduced to their trading posts ... certainly they weren't having

>amalgams done?

>Even today, most of the people diagnosed with gluten intolerance are like 2

>years

>old ... they might be getting mercury by breast feeding, but in fact breast

>fed

>babies have fewer problems.

>

>I suspect those isolated Swiss communities just lacked the gene involved.

>And/or they breast fed longer, and they were dealing with rye,

>not wheat, as the first food fed to kids. And it was whole rye, not finely

>ground,

>which for some reason seems easier on the body?

>

>I'm not sure our level of mercury exposure is actually greater now though.

>Back in the 1800's, and even when I was a kid, liquid mercury wasn't

>thought

>to be terribly toxic, nor were mercury chemicals, you could buy them and

>experiment with them (I had some, in fact, and my Mom had a pint of

>liquid mercury she used to play with). I used to see experiments in books

>that called for a container of mercury (for kids). Not that people didn't

>get

>sick off it. Who knows how they disposed of it (poured it down the sink?

>Tossed it in the bushes, next to the well shed?).

>

>Maybe it is a vicious cycle. Most people *don't* have enzymes to digest

>gluten, I don't know about casein, and a lot of people don't have very

>acidic stomachs in the first place.

>

>-- Heidi Jean

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Isn't there a connection between insufficient zinc and autism?

And if the mom is deficient in zinc before/while pregnant with the

child(ren), aren't they likely to be born deficient in zinc? Aren't

mineral deficiencies, whether inherited or not, hard to overcome using

supplementation?

Isn't there an antagonistic relationship beteen zinc and mercury? In

other words, if you're deficient in zinc, doesn't mercury toxicity

affect you more?

I remember reading an article about the prevalence of autism (or the

Asperger's syndrome) among West Coast yuppies, especially those

associated with computer industries, including programmers. Couples

who were working in the computer industry in the Silicon Valley were

especially prone to producing children who developed autism or

Asperger's, according to the article, IIRC.

I remember wondering what they were eating. Are they likely to be

vegetarians, eschewing meat, a good source of zinc? Or are they

likely to be living on overprocessed junk food? I would imagine they

ate next to no natural fat. Isn't zinc also found in bran? But I

understand that demineralization of the soil is a major problem, and

if the soil that grains are grown in is deficient in zinc, then the

bran of that grain won't be a good source of zinc.

Uh...I know we're talking about gluten intolerance, but if our grains

these days are deficient in zinc, and we take in a lot of mercury

through vaccinations and such, perhaps that's why so many people

develop gluten intolerance, while the Swiss that Price studied had no

problems along that line?

>

> >Could be one reason so many modern folks have problems with these

two foods

> >since the level of mercury emmissions and the amount from amalgams is

> >extremely high these days. And can't help thinking about those

Swiss that

> >Price studied having rye gluten as a staple food and thriving.

Genetics?

> >Relatively heavy metal free lives? Food quality? So many possibilities!

>

> Celiac was first described about 100 AD though, and the Egyptians

> and Assyrians had the first wheat-related health problems. By all

accounts,

> the first grain farmers had health problems that were unknown to the

paleos,

> and there is no reason to believe they had any more mercury in their

systems.

> Also, there were a LOT more deaths of infants from diarrhea ( " the

flux " ) at the

> turn of the century ... they never made it to adulthood to be sickly

adults. It is

> thought that this is the first generation to have wheat-sensitive

folks actually

> grow up to complain about it. Although at the turn of the century

they also

> were rather lackadaisical about mercury (it was in a lot of the

" medicines " of the day,

> and Hooke, I think, drank liquid mercury to help his stomach

problems (!). Also it

> doesn't explain Price's observations that natives got sickly after

" white flour and sugar "

> were introduced to their trading posts ... certainly they weren't

having amalgams done?

> Even today, most of the people diagnosed with gluten intolerance are

like 2 years

> old ... they might be getting mercury by breast feeding, but in fact

breast fed

> babies have fewer problems.

>

> I suspect those isolated Swiss communities just lacked the gene

involved.

> And/or they breast fed longer, and they were dealing with rye,

> not wheat, as the first food fed to kids. And it was whole rye, not

finely ground,

> which for some reason seems easier on the body?

>

> I'm not sure our level of mercury exposure is actually greater now

though.

> Back in the 1800's, and even when I was a kid, liquid mercury wasn't

thought

> to be terribly toxic, nor were mercury chemicals, you could buy them

and

> experiment with them (I had some, in fact, and my Mom had a pint of

> liquid mercury she used to play with). I used to see experiments in

books

> that called for a container of mercury (for kids). Not that people

didn't get

> sick off it. Who knows how they disposed of it (poured it down the

sink?

> Tossed it in the bushes, next to the well shed?).

>

> Maybe it is a vicious cycle. Most people *don't* have enzymes to digest

> gluten, I don't know about casein, and a lot of people don't have very

> acidic stomachs in the first place.

>

> -- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>What about sprouted bread, if it has gluten in it does this mean that a

>person wiith celiac allergic reation would happen?. And what if the grains

>are certified organicallly grown? Does this still have an impact on the

>ability to digest and assimalate this food? Something else has change in

>the diet of modern man and woman. Could it be not enough gut

>probotic?..........steve

Well, folks have been studying this a LOT for 20 years or more, and

really, it does seem to be an adaptation thing, at least for the folks

who have an immune system reaction (vs. folks that just don't digest

it well .. gliadin is damaging to the gut whether or not

you are allergic to it).

Basically, folks started eating wheat in the Middle East several

thousand years ago. The mummies from that time, Assyrians and

Egyptian, show damage that is consistant with gluten intolerance.

Now, gluten intolerance, the IgA kind, is found in people with 1

of 4 genes. 1 of those genes accounts for 80% of the intolerance,

more or less. People without those genes do not get the IgA reaction.

In the Middle East, those genes are really, really rare now. But

in places where gluten has only been consumed recently (like Ireland

and Scotland) those genes are very common. If you have those genes,

and you eat wheat, your lifespan will likely be shorter (and since it

is also associated with infertility, you'd be less likely to pass the

gene on).

The etiology of the disease is that it first starts in babies.

Presumably babies whose mothers eat gluten or are feeding cereals.

Back in the 1800's, a LOT of babies and young children were

dying of a wasting disease, or the " flux " ... it was considered

inevitably fatal. That same disease of young children was noticed

in Rome, where they coined the word " celiac " apparently. Some

doctors would treat it with a diet of raw liver and cream, with

success. Later, in 1940 or so, they started treating it in babies

with " the banana diet " . In 1950 they finally figured out that what

was killing the babies was wheat cereal.

However, if the baby survived, it seemed to outgrow the disease,

and the kids were put back on a regular diet, and seemed ok. 20

years or so later, they get sick again. Now it is 1970 or so, and

this strange problem starts happening in young adults. So some

docs try putting them on allergy diets (and by this time they

are allergic to lots of stuff). And sure enough, in a few

years they become " immune " to wheat again. Actually even

without treatment, the symptoms seem to go away.

Now, again in a 20 year cycle, those 20 year olds turn 40.

And they get sick AGAIN. Only this time they are even sicker,

their thyroids and adrenals etc. are shot. So they start

going back to the docs to figure out what is wrong. Some

of the docs catch on and start doing blood tests, and lo

and behold a lot of them have celiac, which all this time

is thought to be a baby disease. So now they are rewriting

the books. And it turns out that celiac is just ONE of

the diseases associated with this ... others are T1

diabetes, depression, cancer, mental illness.

Anyway, the point is it ISN'T a new problem. The diagnosis

is new, but in the celiac group most of the folks start

seeing that their parents and grandparents had the same

problem, maybe not as severe. The disease can be silent,

and in fact usually is, with the " gut " part of it popping

up in 20 year cycles. The fact is, modern medicine is keeping

these folks alive longer, they would not have survived into

adulthood, the worst cases. Me being one of them, without

a whole lot of antibiotics I just wouldn't be here, I had

infection after infection. In the 1800's I'd be dead, and my

Mom would've had 14 kids of which 4 survived, most likely.

The 4 that survived either would lack the gene or be

really tough in some other way. My Mom has had a ton of

gluten problems, and my Dad had problems that were probably

gluten related too ... but they survived with a lot of medical

intervention.

If you want to know if you are in the " at risk " group, you

can just get the gene test. Folks without the genes do not

seem to be at risk.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

wow, laura, that was a really interesting mental journey

here's some thoughts:

1. we're technoweenies (or, we were. now there's just vestiges of

technoweenies that remain while we build up farm infrastructure), but we

were east-coast. perhaps east-coast technoweenies have a different diet

than west-coast technoweenies? among my net of acquaintance, there doesn't

seem to be much in the way of autism/asperiger's. then again, in that net,

we tend to be a very meaty crowd...and many are into organics too.

2. i think that there's likely a lot of factors that explain the small

swiss exception to the gluten intolerance thing. some of them might be:

climate - the grain that can grow there would be a very different variant

than the grain growing in southern italy, for example. isolation - the

swiss are known for being pretty isolated, geographically and otherwise. to

me it seems that would affect both human genetics and grain genetics.

perhaps their strain was a much older strain. modern input - the people

that price studied were pre-mass-transportation and stuff. do the swiss

still retain the anti-intolerance-ness? probably not. i can keep babbling

about the various reasons and how the swiss " anomaly " is not incongruous

with all the other information out there but what it really comes down to

is: I'M NOT SWISS! (you can tell by looking at my bank account.) and for

that matter, most people aren't. and for that matter, grain is not an

entitlement. so ya know. it's alllll academic.

-katja

At 12:34 PM 4/21/2004, you wrote:

>Uh...I know we're talking about gluten intolerance, but if our grains

>these days are deficient in zinc, and we take in a lot of mercury

>through vaccinations and such, perhaps that's why so many people

>develop gluten intolerance, while the Swiss that Price studied had no

>problems along that line?

[Guest guest]

> wow, laura, that was a really interesting mental journey

Haha! You're very kind. :-)

I can imagine that some out there gave up after the first 2

paragraphs, since the discussion didn't connect with the subject line

very well.

That article about the " geek syndrome " , as it was called, was on the

Wired web site.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aspergers.html

There may be nothing to the low-zinc/high-mercury idea, but it keeps

cropping up for me. I guess that comes from reading so much of Mark

Purdey's writing!

I always figured the West Coast yuppies ate lots of veggies (though

not necessarily organic), since California is known for such things.

And it seems that the upwardly-aspiring folks might tend to practice

vegetarianism because it was the politically correct thing to do.

Do we have any on the list who might be familiar with the eating

habits of West Coast yuppies and geeks in the 80s and 90s? I'm

assuming that's the period during which autism became more prevalent.

Does anyone have figures for how much autism there used to be, and

how much there is now, and when it became more common?

On the other hand, did anyone see the NY Times article about the

Rockefeller farm/restaurant in NY? I guess when you have " arrived " ,

it becomes fashionable again to eat animal-source foods.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/21/dining/21BARN.html?8br

I am annoyed at how much our opinions are manipulated about what

constitutes a healthy diet!

[Guest guest]

Omigosh!

I like it when you talk history. :-)

We're doing a dining survey of almost 5800 people. When I looked at

the responses to the open-ended question, one fellow spent a fair

amount of time talking about his gluten intolerance and the lack of

eating places on campus that he could feel safe patronizing.

I'm wishing now that we had asked some questions about what people

_couldn't_ eat, and whether it affected their ability to eat on campus.

Just how common is this class of diseases?

>

> >What about sprouted bread, if it has gluten in it does this mean

that a

> >person wiith celiac allergic reation would happen?. And what if

the grains

> >are certified organicallly grown? Does this still have an impact

on the

> >ability to digest and assimalate this food? Something else has

change in

> >the diet of modern man and woman. Could it be not enough gut

> >probotic?..........steve

>

> Well, folks have been studying this a LOT for 20 years or more, and

> really, it does seem to be an adaptation thing, at least for the folks

> who have an immune system reaction (vs. folks that just don't digest

> it well .. gliadin is damaging to the gut whether or not

> you are allergic to it).

>

> Basically, folks started eating wheat in the Middle East several

> thousand years ago. The mummies from that time, Assyrians and

> Egyptian, show damage that is consistant with gluten intolerance.

>

> Now, gluten intolerance, the IgA kind, is found in people with 1

> of 4 genes. 1 of those genes accounts for 80% of the intolerance,

> more or less. People without those genes do not get the IgA reaction.

> In the Middle East, those genes are really, really rare now. But

> in places where gluten has only been consumed recently (like Ireland

> and Scotland) those genes are very common. If you have those genes,

> and you eat wheat, your lifespan will likely be shorter (and since it

> is also associated with infertility, you'd be less likely to pass the

> gene on).

>

> The etiology of the disease is that it first starts in babies.

> Presumably babies whose mothers eat gluten or are feeding cereals.

> Back in the 1800's, a LOT of babies and young children were

> dying of a wasting disease, or the " flux " ... it was considered

> inevitably fatal. That same disease of young children was noticed

> in Rome, where they coined the word " celiac " apparently. Some

> doctors would treat it with a diet of raw liver and cream, with

> success. Later, in 1940 or so, they started treating it in babies

> with " the banana diet " . In 1950 they finally figured out that what

> was killing the babies was wheat cereal.

>

> However, if the baby survived, it seemed to outgrow the disease,

> and the kids were put back on a regular diet, and seemed ok. 20

> years or so later, they get sick again. Now it is 1970 or so, and

> this strange problem starts happening in young adults. So some

> docs try putting them on allergy diets (and by this time they

> are allergic to lots of stuff). And sure enough, in a few

> years they become " immune " to wheat again. Actually even

> without treatment, the symptoms seem to go away.

>

> Now, again in a 20 year cycle, those 20 year olds turn 40.

> And they get sick AGAIN. Only this time they are even sicker,

> their thyroids and adrenals etc. are shot. So they start

> going back to the docs to figure out what is wrong. Some

> of the docs catch on and start doing blood tests, and lo

> and behold a lot of them have celiac, which all this time

> is thought to be a baby disease. So now they are rewriting

> the books. And it turns out that celiac is just ONE of

> the diseases associated with this ... others are T1

> diabetes, depression, cancer, mental illness.

>

> Anyway, the point is it ISN'T a new problem. The diagnosis

> is new, but in the celiac group most of the folks start

> seeing that their parents and grandparents had the same

> problem, maybe not as severe. The disease can be silent,

> and in fact usually is, with the " gut " part of it popping

> up in 20 year cycles. The fact is, modern medicine is keeping

> these folks alive longer, they would not have survived into

> adulthood, the worst cases. Me being one of them, without

> a whole lot of antibiotics I just wouldn't be here, I had

> infection after infection. In the 1800's I'd be dead, and my

> Mom would've had 14 kids of which 4 survived, most likely.

> The 4 that survived either would lack the gene or be

> really tough in some other way. My Mom has had a ton of

> gluten problems, and my Dad had problems that were probably

> gluten related too ... but they survived with a lot of medical

> intervention.

>

> If you want to know if you are in the " at risk " group, you

> can just get the gene test. Folks without the genes do not

> seem to be at risk.

>

> -- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>I always figured the West Coast yuppies ate lots of veggies (though

>not necessarily organic), since California is known for such things.

>And it seems that the upwardly-aspiring folks might tend to practice

>vegetarianism because it was the politically correct thing to do.

I think that is true in CA, but I personally know two families

locally that have autistic kids, and their parents

are geeky, but not vegetarian. Being from an Asbergerish

lineage myself, I wonder what would have happened

to our male child if he had been on a normal diet! Actually

my own voyage into diet changes started when I saw one

of those kids improve massively on a GF/CF diet (I really,

really, did not think such a thing could work until I saw it

with my own eyes).

My own experience obviously leads me to believe that

the IgA reactions are the cause of the zinc/calcium/sulfate etc.

abnormalities ... once I started avoiding the problematic

foods the neurological issues faded quickly (and they come

back quickly if I eat those foods!).

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>I'm wishing now that we had asked some questions about what people

>_couldn't_ eat, and whether it affected their ability to eat on campus.

>

>Just how common is this class of diseases?

>

>

Interesting question!

1. 10 years ago, the answer was " 1 in 2,000 people " . Very rare.

Very few physicians diagnosed it, and it was considered only

a childhood disease.

2. 3 years ago: 1 in 250 people, thanks to a random sampling of

blood center blood by the University of land.

3. 2 years ago: 1 in 110 people, thanks to a better testing method

and random sampling of blood.

4. Dangerous grains: 1 in 10 people, because the blood tests

for 1 in 10 show higher levels of IgA antigliadin antibodies, even

though these levels are below " official " level for diagnosing

celiac, they are associated with a lot of diseases.

5. Dr. Fine and some others: 1 in 3 people, because IgA levels

in the *gut* are high in 1 in 3 people, but the IgA doesn't generally

leak into the blood ... but it is probably compromising the health

of those people.

That's why you are seeing articles like " The Coming Epidemic "

and " The Looming Iceberg " . With better testing and more

research, it is turning into a BIG problem ... it may well be

THE big health crisis of this century. Or this millenium ... a lot

of people think " gluten " may be the hidden cause of many of the

health issues of recent history (including stuff like the Black

Plague).

Personally I think it is behind a lot of the mental issues of

the last millenia too ... it seems to cause a lot of the ADD

and Aspberger's and schizophrenia and fits of anger that

probably have resulted in several wars (nothing like a

crazy king to start a good war!).

I know that sounds extreme, but when you've seen people

turn around so radically you have to wonder. It's also interesting

that the hotbed of social unrest and violence has for eons

been the Middle East, where wheat originated.

As for social stuff ... yeah, it is nearly impossible to function

in our society on a GF diet. Most eating establishments are OUT

and most food in grocery stores. We used to eat out at least

once a week, now it is once every few months, maybe, and I'm

usually not feeling good the day after. It's like playing Russian

Roulette ... is the gun loaded? Heck, it's ONLY one bullet in 6!

Usually I decide I like my own cooking a LOT better, and have

become adept at bringing my own (and the WD helps a lot!). I

don't see how I could be a college student again though, or go

to a sleepover camp, and eating at a friend's house is rather

problematic.

I'm not complaining ... our life has improved a lot as a result,

tho it is much different than I would have anticipated. But I

am curious as to how society will change when this becomes

" mainstream " (as I anticipate it will). A lot of the current diseases

will disappear, and I believe people will be calmer.

Crystal balls, anyone?

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Heidi,

Thanks for the quick summary! That's very informative.

You mentioned the continual unrest in the Middle East. Didja notice

that Cain (the farmer) slew Abel (the herdsman)?

>

> >I'm wishing now that we had asked some questions about what people

> >_couldn't_ eat, and whether it affected their ability to eat on

campus.

> >

> >Just how common is this class of diseases?

> >

> >

>

> Interesting question!

>

> 1. 10 years ago, the answer was " 1 in 2,000 people " . Very rare.

> Very few physicians diagnosed it, and it was considered only

> a childhood disease.

>

> 2. 3 years ago: 1 in 250 people, thanks to a random sampling of

> blood center blood by the University of land.

>

> 3. 2 years ago: 1 in 110 people, thanks to a better testing method

> and random sampling of blood.

>

> 4. Dangerous grains: 1 in 10 people, because the blood tests

> for 1 in 10 show higher levels of IgA antigliadin antibodies, even

> though these levels are below " official " level for diagnosing

> celiac, they are associated with a lot of diseases.

>

> 5. Dr. Fine and some others: 1 in 3 people, because IgA levels

> in the *gut* are high in 1 in 3 people, but the IgA doesn't

generally

> leak into the blood ... but it is probably compromising the health

> of those people.

>

> That's why you are seeing articles like " The Coming Epidemic "

> and " The Looming Iceberg " . With better testing and more

> research, it is turning into a BIG problem ... it may well be

> THE big health crisis of this century. Or this millenium ... a lot

> of people think " gluten " may be the hidden cause of many of the

> health issues of recent history (including stuff like the Black

> Plague).

>

> Personally I think it is behind a lot of the mental issues of

> the last millenia too ... it seems to cause a lot of the ADD

> and Aspberger's and schizophrenia and fits of anger that

> probably have resulted in several wars (nothing like a

> crazy king to start a good war!).

>

> I know that sounds extreme, but when you've seen people

> turn around so radically you have to wonder. It's also interesting

> that the hotbed of social unrest and violence has for eons

> been the Middle East, where wheat originated.

>

> As for social stuff ... yeah, it is nearly impossible to function

> in our society on a GF diet. Most eating establishments are OUT

> and most food in grocery stores. We used to eat out at least

> once a week, now it is once every few months, maybe, and I'm

> usually not feeling good the day after. It's like playing Russian

> Roulette ... is the gun loaded? Heck, it's ONLY one bullet in 6!

>

> Usually I decide I like my own cooking a LOT better, and have

> become adept at bringing my own (and the WD helps a lot!). I

> don't see how I could be a college student again though, or go

> to a sleepover camp, and eating at a friend's house is rather

> problematic.

>

> I'm not complaining ... our life has improved a lot as a result,

> tho it is much different than I would have anticipated. But I

> am curious as to how society will change when this becomes

> " mainstream " (as I anticipate it will). A lot of the current

diseases

> will disappear, and I believe people will be calmer.

>

> Crystal balls, anyone?

>

> -- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>Heidi,

>

>Thanks for the quick summary! That's very informative.

??? Quick ??? <g>

>You mentioned the continual unrest in the Middle East. Didja notice

>that Cain (the farmer) slew Abel (the herdsman)?

Yeah ... and before that there is the scene where God rejects

the grain offering ... some theologian/nutritionist could

have a lot of fun with all this ...

Someone once corresponded me privately with an entire analysis

of the role of meat and grains in the Old Testament. Pretty interesting.

The Israelites were mainly herding nomads until they went to

live with the Egyptians ... due to a grain shortage/drought ... and they ended

up being slaves.

You also hear from the folks that go live with tribal cultures (esp

in the past) ... they talk about how " happy and peaceful " those

tribes are. Not that they didn't go to war ... but on a daily basis,

they seemed more " happy " and " relaxed " than the Westerners (who

were generally regarded as rather uptight and strange). Now those

same folk are getting Western food and there seems to be a lot

more violence. Purely anectdotal ... but I have noticed in my family

our fights have gotten very rare, whereas a few years ago one person

or the other would blow up on a regular basis.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

> My own experience obviously leads me to believe that

> the IgA reactions are the cause of the zinc/calcium/sulfate etc.

> abnormalities ... once I started avoiding the problematic

> foods the neurological issues faded quickly (and they come

> back quickly if I eat those foods!).

>

> -- Heidi Jean

Over the last month I've been taking only calcium citrate with D, zinc

picolinate and omega 3 fatty acids from fish oil. Can't remember any combo

doing me more good other than l-glutamine and olive leaf extract.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

> 4. Dangerous grains: 1 in 10 people, because the blood tests

> for 1 in 10 show higher levels of IgA antigliadin antibodies, even

> though these levels are below " official " level for diagnosing

> celiac, they are associated with a lot of diseases.

Article I sent the other day said same from author. Does pasteurization or

homogenization alter casein? Increasing gluten for grain storability and

genetically engineering seed could both make 1 in 10 true. Mercury amalgams

on top of it. SAD grains mantra, grain mycotoxins, stress, other

environmental poisons. With how my mouth and brain fog healed alone I'd

almost dare to say we can't compare grain today to the Swiss or Gaelics. How

close is today's grain to their open pollinated varieties? It's all been

hybridized.

>

> Personally I think it is behind a lot of the mental issues of

> the last millenia too ... it seems to cause a lot of the ADD

> and Aspberger's and schizophrenia and fits of anger that

> probably have resulted in several wars (nothing like a

> crazy king to start a good war!).

LOL!...grain allergy induced brain fog doesn't make good choosers or

diplomats...just carboholics

> I'm not complaining ... our life has improved a lot as a result,

> tho it is much different than I would have anticipated. But I

> am curious as to how society will change when this becomes

> " mainstream " (as I anticipate it will). A lot of the current diseases

> will disappear, and I believe people will be calmer.

>

> Crystal balls, anyone?

You know that commercial frying an egg saying " This is your brain on drugs. "

They'll replace the egg with toast popping up, say " This is your brain on

grain opioids " and put the egg where the bread used to be in the food

pyramid. People are taking more responsibility for their own health. If

Atkins can do what it's done pretty much by word of mouth without much

national mainstream media coverage its not far off to how can I get rid of

this heartburn, constant upset stomach or no energy without 50 visits to the

doctor, a mountain of pills and no results?

Wanita

[Guest guest]

>

> >Heidi,

> >

> >Thanks for the quick summary! That's very informative.

>

> ??? Quick ??? <g>

Ummm...quick enough for me, yet full of good info! ;-)

>

> >You mentioned the continual unrest in the Middle East. Didja

notice

> >that Cain (the farmer) slew Abel (the herdsman)?

>

> Yeah ... and before that there is the scene where God rejects

> the grain offering ... some theologian/nutritionist could

> have a lot of fun with all this ...

>

Right.

On the other hand, there are instructions for offering grain

sacrifices. I'm assuming Cain offered grain and/or veggies when at

the time God specifically required an animal sacrifice. Or Cain

simply did it not according to directions. Like when Moses struck

the rock to get water, instead of simply speaking to it. He didn't

follow directions, and he didn't get to enter the Promised Land.

> Someone once corresponded me privately with an entire analysis

> of the role of meat and grains in the Old Testament. Pretty

interesting.

I would be interested in reading that.

> The Israelites were mainly herding nomads until they went to

> live with the Egyptians ... due to a grain shortage/drought ... and

they ended

> up being slaves.

Yeah, but not for a long time. ph got Pharoah to send them to

Goshen (the best part of the land) to take care of the herds and

flocks, which he acquired more of during the famine. (Pharoah ended

up owning all the land, herds, and flocks.) So for most of the time,

ph's relatives had ready access to animal foods, while the rest

were living on stockpiled grain, at least during the famine. Beyond

that, since the Egyptians " loathed " keepers of flocks, they probably

were less likely to deviate from the grain-based diet even after the

famine was over.

No wonder when Moses was born, the midwives said that the Hebrew

babies were born more quickly than the Egyptian babies. Think about

what Dr. Price documented in terms of physical development, with and

without animal foods! Women have healthier babies and deliver them

more easily when they use foods from animal sources.

The problems started when there arose a Pharoah who " knew not

ph " . Who would _you_ choose to build your pyramids, if you

didn't feel like you owed anything to ph and his relatives?

Wouldn't you choose the stronger ones, especially if they were

foreigners anyway? And especially if they seemed to be happier and

healthier than your fellow countrymen?

I have noticed that many of the godly leaders in the OT had

experience herding animals. I mean, Adam was given the take of

naming all the animals. Noah was given the task of preserving the

animals in an ark, living closely with them for a *long* time! Moses

had to spend 40 years herding in the wilderness, after growing up as

a son of Pharoah's daughter, before he was given the task of leading

the Hebrews out of Egypt. was brought in from the sheep

pasture to receive his anointing. And there's the entire system of

animal sacrifice.

And there's the talk about the " good shepherd " . I think God's

pattern was to develop His chosen leaders by having them spend a lot

of time dealing with animals. (There are high-stress and low-stress

ways of handling even large animals.) And once the sacrificial

system was put in place, the keepers of the animals probably knew all

along that even their favorites might end up being selected as one of

the perfect sacrifices. It involved deep feelings sometimes, I would

imagine. But how would you feel, as God, if your " only begotten Son "

had to be sacrified so that others might be saved? I think we're

made to " think God's thoughts after Him " .

[Guest guest]

> > Personally I think it is behind a lot of the mental issues of

> > the last millenia too ... it seems to cause a lot of the ADD

> > and Aspberger's and schizophrenia and fits of anger that

> > probably have resulted in several wars (nothing like a

> > crazy king to start a good war!).

>

> LOL!...grain allergy induced brain fog doesn't make good choosers

or

> diplomats...just carboholics

Well, Hitler was a " vegetarian, " right? Vegetarian usually means

eating lots of bread and grain products along with the veggies,

right?

~~Carolyn

[Guest guest]

>If you want to know if you are in the " at risk " group, you

>can just get the gene test. Folks without the genes do not

>seem to be at risk.

>

>-- Heidi Jean

Does enterolab do the gene test? If not, where does one get the gene test

done?

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

>Does enterolab do the gene test? If not, where does one get the gene test

>done?

>

>

>Suze Fisher

Enterolab does it... Great Plains Lab. does it too, theirs includes another

gene,

I think. There are 4 total that have been implicated, but the 2 most common

are the ones Enterolab tests for.

-- Heidi Jean