Zoe...RDI with non verbal kids

[Guest guest]

Hi Zoe

So, so , so pleased for you, your family and Philip. A wee question to

ask...in your experience can RDI help non verbal children?

Helen xx

[Guest guest]

Hi Helen,

My son is not completely non verbal - but he doesn't have a huge amount

of words/ vocabulary. RDI is most definitely helping him. Some areas

that we have seen improvements in are flexibility, being able to

sustain an activity for much longer than he used to (without being

constantly reinforced), much better attention, trust and patience (

able to wait for things without getting frustrated). Executive

functions skills have greatly improved. He is generally a lot calmer

and sweeter to be around. We are only one year in and still learning

ourselves.

In terms of language, we have removed a lot of the demands we made on

my son to answer questions, constant manding etc., We use 80 %

declarative, 20% imperitive when communicating with him. We use a lot

of non verbal communication and this has made a difference to him. He

always had reasonable eye contact, but now when he looks at us it is

more meaningful. ation is better.

We do still work on articulation with using Kaufman materials

as he has apraxia and needs to keep those muscles moving every day.

Jane

helenco68 wrote:

Hi Zoe

So, so , so pleased for you, your family and Philip. A wee question to

ask...in your experience can RDI help non verbal children?

Helen xx

[Guest guest]

Hi Anita

It wasnt Philip's interests that allowed us to engage with him to

begin with - he just wasnt interested in participating in anything

that wasnt on his terms so we went right back to the baby stages of

interaction. Some of the things we used to do to establish a

pattern were simple things like sitting on chairs next to each

other, holding hands and swinging our hands with variations in pace,

or walking across a room together.

It took us a while to even be able to do that. When we were in

Houston at the Connections Centre doing our first RDA, Philip was

very very defensive and hostile and there were tears and meltdowns

(not just his) on more than one occasion. They told us then that

they thought it would take us about 6 months to establish

mentor/apprentice - it actually took us over a year :(

I wonder whether your 'something else underlying' your son's lack of

engagement is that mentor/apprentice is not yet fully in place?

Another thing that can get in the way is a co-occuring condition (eg

ADHD or dyspraxia etc - not suggesting he has any of these - I dont

know him - just saying other parents have reported that co-occuring

conditions can get in the way).

Am not sure that 'reaching out' in a purely instrumental way (which

is what Philip was doing with his verbal ability.....and then

some!!) is a positive thing (in RDI terms) because the objective is

just to get needs met, not share emotion.

But yes, it is better to have the ability to get your needs met than

not.

Another way of looking at it could be that your lad is in his own

world not because he lacks language but because he doesnt feel

competent and confident about coming outside of his world - in fact,

he doesnt understand things outside of his world because he has

missed all those fundamental developmental steps that he has to

learn in order to lay the foundations for (language and)

communication........?

Just my take on it

Zoe

> >

> > Hi Helen

> >

> > I can only endorse what Sara said - yes, definitely, in fact its

a

> > lot easier with non-verbal children.

>

> I know that Gutstein makes this statement too, but I'd like to add

my

> bit. My son is nonverbal and we are doing RDI. Mind, we're only

a

> four months into it, but I would find it really difficult to

believe

> that non-verbalness makes RDI easier. I think it's something

else.

>

> My son has very few interests, cannot tell us anything he wants,

how

> he feels, what he thinks. This is in part what makes it very

> difficult for us to engage him in any activity. So, many of the

> things that other people can do with their kids to practice guided

> participation and to work on whatever objective they have just

don't

> happen for us (yet) because ds is so much in his own world--partly

a

> result of the lack of language. Anytime a verbal child is

actually

> speaking to someone, he/she is at least reaching out. A nonverbal

> child who does no reaching out isn't easy to RDI with, IME. So, I

> think there is something else underlying what might make RDI

easier

> or not.

>

> As difficult as it is putting things into practice, like Zoe and I

> suspect all the other moms pursuing this, the theory of RDI makes

> perfect sense to me and I will not stop. I don't believe that RDI

> will give my son verbal language; however, I do believe it will

> eventually allow him to communicate with us. So, to the original

> question (I think this was it), will RDI help a nonverbal child.

> IMO, most definitely yes. Here, we are seeing little glimmers of

> improvement already and I think RDI will help ALL ASD children,

but

> it may not help in the sense that the child will acquire

language. I

> think, too, where a verbal child will have an advantage is, once

> you're far enough through the stages, an already verbal child will

be

> able to use the language he/she has appropriately.

>

> One last thought--it really is a huge relief in some ways to NOT

> focus on language because of the RDI program. Having a nonverbal

> child can make you obsessive about getting the language. In the

> past, I have moved in and out of this obsessiveness. However, now

> having started RDI I no longer give spoken language such

emphasis.

> Or signing such emphasis. So, in that way things are a lot easier

> for me although I think that things are still very hard for my son

in

> that his lack of ability to communicate locks him in. Hopefully

not

> for very much longer :-)

>

> Anita

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for all this Zoe. I think everything about " normal "

development and autism is so complex that it bothers me that Gutsein

says things like being nonverbal is actually an advantage for RDI.

My son is nonverbal, yours is verbal, but other than that they could

have everything in common or nothing in common--and I think that the

everything or the nothing could play a far more crucial role in

the " ease " of RDI.

For my own son, I think you're probably right about lots of things.

If he does have a co-occuring condition no one has been able to

indentify it but ds doesn't fit neatly into much of what previous

therapists/specialists knew about autism.

Floortime has given ds some of the developmental steps that RDI goes

back and redresses (mercifully, because it has also given him--and me-

-some lovely habits in regard to static behaviour!) and he has

already met some of the objectives; however, there is still that very

much in his own world without interests. I guess my thinking is if

ds had language, that would open up the possibility of him having

other interests. I know parents who say that their kid's interest in

, for example, drives them crazy, but from my perspective, it

would be a place to start. Stimming on movie credits isn't a great

place to start RDI or anything ;-)

I guess for me too I've seen ds with language and with the

developmental milestones we're trying to get back, so in my mind the

two are linked. Even after ds regressed and then came back to us a

bit (sadly lost again) when a bit of a language came back, all the

other stuff did too. So, at least for us, language coming back would

seem to be a huge advantage for life in general but also for RDI (I

realize the two are very much the same, but you know what I mean).

In other words, for us, the language in the past has been very

closely linked with the confidence and competence and this has been

noticeable from one day to the next when a biomed intervention seemed

to work or stop working.

Thanks for telling me abuot how things started with RDI for Philip.

His gains truly have been huge! You really have to be a believer to

slog through for that long :-)

Anita

..

>

> Hi Anita

>

> It wasnt Philip's interests that allowed us to engage with him to

> begin with - he just wasnt interested in participating in anything

> that wasnt on his terms so we went right back to the baby stages of

> interaction. Some of the things we used to do to establish a

> pattern were simple things like sitting on chairs next to each

> other, holding hands and swinging our hands with variations in

pace,

> or walking across a room together.

>

> It took us a while to even be able to do that. When we were in

> Houston at the Connections Centre doing our first RDA, Philip was

> very very defensive and hostile and there were tears and meltdowns

> (not just his) on more than one occasion. They told us then that

> they thought it would take us about 6 months to establish

> mentor/apprentice - it actually took us over a year :(

>

> I wonder whether your 'something else underlying' your son's lack

of

> engagement is that mentor/apprentice is not yet fully in place?

>

> Another thing that can get in the way is a co-occuring condition

(eg

> ADHD or dyspraxia etc - not suggesting he has any of these - I dont

> know him - just saying other parents have reported that co-occuring

> conditions can get in the way).

>

> Am not sure that 'reaching out' in a purely instrumental way (which

> is what Philip was doing with his verbal ability.....and then

> some!!) is a positive thing (in RDI terms) because the objective is

> just to get needs met, not share emotion.

>

> But yes, it is better to have the ability to get your needs met

than

> not.

>

> Another way of looking at it could be that your lad is in his own

> world not because he lacks language but because he doesnt feel

> competent and confident about coming outside of his world - in

fact,

> he doesnt understand things outside of his world because he has

> missed all those fundamental developmental steps that he has to

> learn in order to lay the foundations for (language and)

> communication........?

>

> Just my take on it

>

> Zoe

>

>