Re: Garlic and oil and botulism

[Guest guest]

>I know vinegar and salt keep botulism from reproducing, but the

>vinegar and oil separate, of course, and I'm not sure where the

>garlicky flavor and salt go, but I'm thinking we may be lucky we've

>never had food poisoning? So if this is a bad idea, is there another

>way to get garlic into the dressing in advance without it being a

>high risk for botulism growth? Like garlic powder or maybe using

>lacto-fermented garlic cloves instead of fresh garlic?

>Betsy

I make a dressing from kefir and pressed garlic and other spices ...

it doesn't separate, and it tastes great, like Ranch dressing.

For me though, I soak whole garlic cloves in homemade wine vinegar,

in a big jug, and pour off the vinegar as needed into a vinegar

shaker. I keep the oil separate ...everyone likes different amounts

of oil. If you got some garlic oil, that would mix well with the

olive oil.

Now, for REAL garlic flavor ... when I make a salad, I take

the " little " ingredients (other than lettuce, the tomato, celery,

avacado, olives, whatever) and squeeze 4-5 garlic cloves, some

salt, cayenne, allspice (weird, but I like it), olive oil, and

mix the whole bit up. Then mix it with the lettuce. It makes

an amazingly good salad, far better than just a little garlic

in the dressing. Then people add more oil, vinegar, ranch

dressing, meat, whatever they like.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

hmm. this seems pretty darned strange to me. i put garlic in oil for two

weeks in the sun to make garlic oil, and besides that - garlic is

anti-microbial. i don't buy this. i could be flat wrong, but man. don't buy it.

At 12:32 PM 4/29/2004, you wrote:

>I was reading some of the archives yesterday and read that leaving

>garlic in oil overnight is a good way to get botulism started. I've

>been crushing up garlic and soaking it in olive oil for 30 min, then

>straining out the garlic pieces. I mix the oil with vinegar, basil,

>and lots of salt to make our oil & vinegar dressing. I make a week's

>worth and store it on the counter all week long.

>

>I know vinegar and salt keep botulism from reproducing, but the

>vinegar and oil separate, of course, and I'm not sure where the

>garlicky flavor and salt go, but I'm thinking we may be lucky we've

>never had food poisoning? So if this is a bad idea, is there another

>way to get garlic into the dressing in advance without it being a

>high risk for botulism growth? Like garlic powder or maybe using

>lacto-fermented garlic cloves instead of fresh garlic?

>Betsy

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>hmm. this seems pretty darned strange to me. i put garlic in oil for two

>weeks in the sun to make garlic oil, and besides that - garlic is

>anti-microbial. i don't buy this. i could be flat wrong, but man. don't buy it.

It IS anti-microbial, that's the problem. With most stuff

in oil ... tomatoes for example ... lactobacilli get started

and sour the tomato, and the botulism bacteria can't get started.

But there have been cases of garlic in oil giving

people botulism. Maybe being in the sun helps -- ultraviolet

kills most bacteria. Or soaking in vinegar first? See below.

http://www.colostate.edu/orgs/safefood/NEWSLTR/v2n4s08.html

.. Several cases of botulism involving garlic-in-oil preparations brought this

hazard to light in the 1980's. In 1985, Vancouver, BC, 37 people got botulism

from a garlic-in-oil preparation. This was followed by a 1988 laboratory

investigation into the survival of and toxin production by C botulinum in

garlic-in-oil preparations. In 1989, 3 people in Kingston, NY, became ill, also

from a garlic-in-oil infusion. Thus, in 1989 the FDA issued a ruling, ordering

the removal from store shelves of all commercial garlic-in-oil preparations that

lacked an acidifying agent, followed by a mandate requiring the addition of an

acidifying agent (such as phosphoric or citric acid) to all commercial

garlic-in-oil preparations. Acid prevents the growth of the C botulinum, so any

spores that might be present in an infusion will not be able to flourish and

produce toxin. The acid must be added as the recipe is being prepared.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

> Now, for REAL garlic flavor ... when I make a salad, I take

> the " little " ingredients (other than lettuce, the tomato, celery,

> avacado, olives, whatever) and squeeze 4-5 garlic cloves, some

> salt, cayenne, allspice (weird, but I like it), olive oil, and

> mix the whole bit up. Then mix it with the lettuce. It makes

> an amazingly good salad, far better than just a little garlic

> in the dressing. Then people add more oil, vinegar, ranch

> dressing, meat, whatever they like.

>

> -- Heidi Jean

I tried the cayenne/allspice seasonings on my salad last night and it

was really tasty. I would have never thought that allspice would

have worked with salad, but I really liked it. Where did you get the

idea? All my cookbooks tend to use French and Mediterranean type

spices like basil, dill, tarragon etc in salads. What other

culinary secrets do you have? If I could program, I'd program for

you and free you up to finish your cookbook, but alas, all I know is

a little Fortran. Betsy

[Guest guest]

>I tried the cayenne/allspice seasonings on my salad last night and it

>was really tasty. I would have never thought that allspice would

>have worked with salad, but I really liked it. Where did you get the

>idea? All my cookbooks tend to use French and Mediterranean type

>spices like basil, dill, tarragon etc in salads. What other

>culinary secrets do you have? If I could program, I'd program for

>you and free you up to finish your cookbook, but alas, all I know is

>a little Fortran. Betsy

Heh heh ... thanks for the offer! What I really need tho is

a babysitter! And a cook, animal feeder and gardener.

As for the idea ... it's a funny story. We used to get together

with this other couple and cook. And drink wine, at the same

time. The other woman was, well, a little tipsy and grabbed

the allspice instead of whatever it was she was aiming for.

That salad also had chopped cashews, sliced honey-smoked turkey,

and lots of crushed cloves of garlic. We named it " killer salad " and

it's become a staple. I used to serve it as a side salad, but

then no one ate the main dish, so now it's become a main course.

-- Heidi Jean