Guest guest Posted May 14, 2004 Report Share Posted May 14, 2004 Should kefiili be agitated like Kefir or just let it sit? Can you make Kefili with goat milk? Thanks Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2004 Report Share Posted May 19, 2004 Heidi, I tried to make kefiili two times now with goat milk. It does not thicken at all. Any tips or ideas. Thanks, Chris > > >>Can you make Kefili with goat milk? > > Why not? However, if you use raw milk, keep some in > reserve, the viili portion can get wiped out by other bacteria > (or by sitting too long without fresh milk, or hot days). > > and while we're on the topic, heidi, how did you start your keflii? did you > >start with vilii milk and kefirize it? or mix it all together? > > I kept viili and kefir in the same kitchen, and the mated ... it wasn't on purpose, > but y'know, these things happen ... I didn't practice " safe kefirizing " ! > > -- Heidi Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2004 Report Share Posted May 19, 2004 yeah, i tried with raw cow milk and just ened up with kefir. maybe my kefir strain is particularly buff At 09:06 AM 5/19/2004, you wrote: >Heidi, > >I tried to make kefiili two times now with goat milk. >It does not thicken at all. Any tips or ideas. > >Thanks, >Chris > > > > > > >>Can you make Kefili with goat milk? > > > > Why not? However, if you use raw milk, keep some in > > reserve, the viili portion can get wiped out by other bacteria > > (or by sitting too long without fresh milk, or hot days). > > > > and while we're on the topic, heidi, how did you start your keflii? did >you > > >start with vilii milk and kefirize it? or mix it all together? > > > > I kept viili and kefir in the same kitchen, and the mated ... it wasn't on >purpose, > > but y'know, these things happen ... I didn't practice " safe kefirizing " ! > > > > -- Heidi Jean > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2004 Report Share Posted May 19, 2004 That could be. I had it going okay with raw cow milk. Tried to put some in store goat milk turned out as kefir. So then I tried to put some in store cow milk, turned out thick. Then took some of that and used it in the goat milk. Kefir again. I've had allergy testing (ELISA) which tested high for cows milk, casien and beef but goat milk was fine. After staying away from cows milk for 3 months I started with some raw cows milk to see if I would notice anything. After a few months I hadn't really noticed but it makes it hard to tell when you have arthritis. So I've stopped the cows milk for a couple weeks to see if I notice any changes. I 'm waiting on a source for raw goat milk later this month. Chris > yeah, i tried with raw cow milk and just ened up with kefir. > maybe my kefir strain is particularly buff > > > At 09:06 AM 5/19/2004, you wrote: > >Heidi, > > > >I tried to make kefiili two times now with goat milk. > >It does not thicken at all. Any tips or ideas. > > > >Thanks, > >Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2004 Report Share Posted May 19, 2004 Ok, dumb question. How do you know if you have kefir or kefilli? I still don't get this whole thing. I was given kefilli separately from kefir grains and put the two together. I don't even know why I need the grains because I was making kefilli without the grains before. Does kefir make kefir without the grains like kefilli makes kefilli without the grains? Are the two just distinguished from each other by the bacteria strains in them? Where did all these different strains originate from, and what about water kefir grains? I came across this website talking about the origination of kefir grains. I thought the story was quite interesting and fun to read. I didn't know kefir was 5,000 years old and the " grains of the prophet " . > From: katja <katja@...> > Reply- > Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 09:38:10 -0400 > > Subject: Re: Kefiili > > yeah, i tried with raw cow milk and just ened up with kefir. > maybe my kefir strain is particularly buff > > > At 09:06 AM 5/19/2004, you wrote: >> Heidi, >> >> I tried to make kefiili two times now with goat milk. >> It does not thicken at all. Any tips or ideas. >> >> Thanks, >> Chris >> >> >>> >>>>> Can you make Kefili with goat milk? >>> >>> Why not? However, if you use raw milk, keep some in >>> reserve, the viili portion can get wiped out by other bacteria >>> (or by sitting too long without fresh milk, or hot days). >>> >>> and while we're on the topic, heidi, how did you start your keflii? did >> you >>>> start with vilii milk and kefirize it? or mix it all together? >>> >>> I kept viili and kefir in the same kitchen, and the mated ... it wasn't on >> purpose, >>> but y'know, these things happen ... I didn't practice " safe kefirizing " ! >>> >>> -- Heidi Jean >> >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2004 Report Share Posted May 19, 2004 >Heidi, > >I tried to make kefiili two times now with goat milk. >It does not thicken at all. Any tips or ideas. > >Thanks, >Chris When you use raw milk, it's a crap shoot. The viili part of kefiili is a bit more picky than the other bacteria ... it is leuconostoc cremoris, but there are different strains of LC, and they seem to be easily replaced by each other. So if your raw milk has a DIFFERENT LC, you'll lose the thickness. But I do know people who use commercial goat milk, and it thickens ok. Or, try a lower temperature. Kefiili likes colder temps. Actually all kefir is thicker if you use lower temps. -- Heidi Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2004 Report Share Posted May 19, 2004 >Ok, dumb question. How do you know if you have kefir or kefilli? I still >don't get this whole thing. I was given kefilli separately from kefir >grains and put the two together. I don't even know why I need the grains >because I was making kefilli without the grains before. Does kefir make >kefir without the grains like kefilli makes kefilli without the grains? Kefiili without the grains is " viili " ... which is Finnish yogurt. It doesn't have as wide a variety of bacteria as kefir or kefiili ... the grains " house " a bunch of stuff that eventually goes away if you don't have the grains. If you use the kefiili grains and don't change them enough or it gets to hot, they lose the " viili " bacteria and revert to thin, sour kefir. > Are >the two just distinguished from each other by the bacteria strains in them? Yep. Actually I guess I can take credit for starting all this (tho I'm sure someone else did and didn't talk about it so much) when I inadvertantly mixed some viili and kefir (both from GEM cultures). >Where did all these different strains originate from, and what about water >kefir grains? Water kefir is a whole different thing, no one knows where it came from. -- Heidi Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2004 Report Share Posted May 19, 2004 Instead of sitting out on the counter or sitting in a pan of cold water, can we just " kefiili " it in the fridge? Mine is already starting to go thin with the heat. It was in the 80's today. Del > > >Ok, dumb question. How do you know if you have kefir or kefilli? I still > >don't get this whole thing. I was given kefilli separately from kefir > >grains and put the two together. I don't even know why I need the grains > >because I was making kefilli without the grains before. Does kefir make > >kefir without the grains like kefilli makes kefilli without the grains? > > Kefiili without the grains is " viili " ... which is Finnish yogurt. It doesn't have > as wide a variety of bacteria as kefir or kefiili ... the grains " house " a bunch > of stuff that eventually goes away if you don't have the grains. > > If you use the kefiili grains and don't change them enough or it > gets to hot, they lose the " viili " bacteria and revert to thin, sour kefir. > > > > Are > >the two just distinguished from each other by the bacteria strains in them? > > Yep. Actually I guess I can take credit for starting all this (tho I'm sure someone else > did and didn't talk about it so much) when I inadvertantly mixed some viili and kefir > (both from GEM cultures). > > > >Where did all these different strains originate from, and what about water > >kefir grains? > > Water kefir is a whole different thing, no one knows where it came from. > > -- Heidi Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2004 Report Share Posted May 20, 2004 >Instead of sitting out on the counter or sitting in a pan of cold >water, can we just " kefiili " it in the fridge? Mine is already >starting to go thin with the heat. It was in the 80's today. >Del I put mine in the fridge when it gets too hot, but it takes a long time to " make kefiili " that way. I usually let it go for the night on the counter, THEN put it in the fridge to go the rest of the way. We don't have many days that hot tho. I think I might move it to the basement when the hot days come this summer. What I'd really love to do is build a root cellar. If you are getting hot days tho, be sure to keep a backup in the fridge! If your kefiili thins out permanently, you can rejuvenate it with a shot of the thick stuff. -- Heidi Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2004 Report Share Posted May 20, 2004 I'll have to try it in the fridge then. The goat milk I'm using is commercial. I also have some in cows milk in the fridge just in case. I hope to get it working in the goats milk. THanks Heidi Re: Kefiili > When you use raw milk, it's a crap shoot. The > viili part of kefiili is a bit more picky than > the other bacteria ... it is leuconostoc cremoris, > but there are different strains of LC, and they > seem to be easily replaced by each other. So if > your raw milk has a DIFFERENT LC, you'll lose the > thickness. But I do know people who use commercial > goat milk, and it thickens ok. > > Or, try a lower temperature. Kefiili likes colder temps. > Actually all kefir is thicker if you use lower temps. > > -- Heidi Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2004 Report Share Posted May 20, 2004 > Re: Kefiili > > >Ok, dumb question. How do you know if you have kefir or kefilli? I still >don't get this whole thing. I was given kefilli separately from kefir >grains and put the two together. I don't even know why I need the grains >because I was making kefilli without the grains before. Does kefir make >kefir without the grains like kefilli makes kefilli without the >grains? I don't know how to answer this, but I can tell you that I'm currently using Body ecology powdered kefir starter and to make each new batch, you just put a couple of Tbsp. from the previous batch in fresh milk. BUT, the instructions say you can only do this 7 times before it stops culturing. I don't know why it stops after 7 batches. I also never tried this with kefir I made with *grains*. You'd think it *would* culture fresh milk, since the bacteria/yeasts are present... Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine http://www.westonaprice.org ---------------------------- " The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " -- Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher. The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics <http://www.thincs.org> ---------------------------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2004 Report Share Posted May 20, 2004 > > Re: Kefiili > > > > > >Ok, dumb question. How do you know if you have kefir or kefilli? I still > >don't get this whole thing. I was given kefilli separately from kefir > >grains and put the two together. I don't even know why I need the grains > >because I was making kefilli without the grains before. Does kefir make > >kefir without the grains like kefilli makes kefilli without the > >grains? > > I don't know how to answer this, but I can tell you that I'm currently using > Body ecology powdered kefir starter and to make each new batch, you just put > a couple of Tbsp. from the previous batch in fresh milk. BUT, the > instructions say you can only do this 7 times before it stops culturing. I > don't know why it stops after 7 batches. I also never tried this with kefir > I made with *grains*. You'd think it *would* culture fresh milk, since the > bacteria/yeasts are present... The kefir grain, containing dozens of organisms forming the rubbery colony of symbionts, acts as a blueprint for the ratio of organisms in the kefir. Viili is created by only 1 bacteria, a variant of Leuconostoc cremoris, and requires no blueprint. The strained kefir acts like a complex starter mix, but without the mother grain, the ratio of orgaisms will change over time, for example over a period of 6 or 7 ferments. Kefiili mother grains are just normal kefir grains which have adopted 1 more bacteria, the viili bacteria, into its rubbery symbiotic colony. As I understand it kefiili is a thicker creamier form of kefir. There is supposed to be a method of changing the kefiili grain back to a kefir grain. The method may be on Dominic's Kefir In-Site if you are interested. At the moment I am considering trying to get a kefir grain to accept a wheat fermenting yeast called Weihenstephan Weizen #3068 which creates flavors of clove, vanilla, and banana in an ale/lager. Although this yeast ferments at 68F-77F which is optimal for kefir, it may turn out to be a total flop but who knows unless someone tries? Darrell G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2004 Report Share Posted November 27, 2004 Well, I tried to look this up on the web, but Google didn't recognize Kefiili. What is it - something you drink like kefir, or eat with a spoon? Something you use for fermenting? Carol Heidi, This is as good a time as any to tell you that I lost my grains that you gave me through a tragic accident for the grains and so I did just that! I ordered some kefir grains and some viili culture and I am trying to make kefiili. At first I was going to keep them apart and have both but it didn't last a week! I am having a hard time getting the right ratio of milk to grains. Tour grains were so good never a problem. It is still not stringy but it has a great taste! Del Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2004 Report Share Posted November 27, 2004 >>>Well, I tried to look this up on the web, but Google didn't recognize Kefiili. What is it - something you drink like kefir, or eat with a spoon? Something you use for fermenting? Carol<<< From the NN site, click on 'Files' and then 'Kefiili.pdf' (you'll need Adobe Acrobat to read it). Cheers, Tas'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2004 Report Share Posted November 27, 2004 >Well, I tried to look this up on the web, but Google didn't recognize Kefiili. What is it - something you drink like kefir, or eat with a spoon? Something you use for fermenting? >Carol I kinda made it up, with some help from my email friends. It was an accident or unconscious experiment, I'm not sure which: my family just didn't like the sour kefir, so I ordered Fil Mjolk and viili from GEM, and they got mixed up. Anyway, it is not as sour as kefir, and much thicker (gloopy!), probably full of polysaccharides, and has a lot of subtle flavors. The bacteria in question, Leuconostoc Cremoris, is also used in commercial buttermilk to add aroma. Dom tried the same experiment, and found that sometimes the LC " took " and became part of the culture, sometimes it didn't, so maybe I just lucked out. If you put kefiili thru the blender, it loses the gloopiness and makes a great smoothie. Since it isn't sour, you don't have to add sugar to get the kids to drink it, a banana will do. It makes amazing sour cream (I've had folks get the grains just for the sour cream!). Since I don't do dairy myself, I actually use the grains more to make kefir beer, which they do nicely! I just heard back from my " experimental case " ... I shipped her the grains with no milk, just in a bubble envelope, which is really quick and easy! She said they arrived flat, but plumped up after 2 days and make fine kefiili. So ... I can send grains to those that wants 'em. (my previous shippings were really iffy, I think some of the post offices irradiate the mail, and those liquidy packages make them more curious than a light bubble envelope. Course I won't know til we do this a few times ...). Write me privately, anyone who is interested. Heidi Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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