Re: Infant formula

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Did you have another baby? I had a year ago. We had him on

Alimentum. It as worked the best. The proteins are all broken down. It is

expensive, but worth it. How are YOU? Kathy Buckley

[Guest guest]

Hi Kathy,

I'm due May 23 with #4! Thanks for the advice on Nutramigen - how do you

get it? I always breast feed the kids for a year, but they end up getting

some formula around 3 months (I just can't keep up when I go back to work!)

We are heading off on vacation, but I'll write more off-list when I get

back.

Congratulations on YOUR baby!!!

>From: liamcbuckley@...

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: infant formula

>Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 14:34:44 EDT

>

>Hi ,

>Did you have another baby? I had a year ago. We had him on

>Alimentum. It as worked the best. The proteins are all broken down. It

>is

>expensive, but worth it. How are YOU? Kathy Buckley

>

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[Guest guest]

>My question is: if I pasturize the goats milk and then add the kefir

>or piima will the goats milk be just as nutritious as if it were in

>a raw state? Or if I decide not to do anything to the pasturized

>milk,and feed to my baby as is. Isn't the goats milk still a lot

>better then the formula's on the market?

You'll want to do your own research, but my own opinion

is that once you " kefirize " milk, it is a whole different thing

than what you started with. So if you start with raw milk

(even raw milk with perhaps some bad bacteria) you will

end up with kefir with good bacteria. If you start out with

cooked milk, you will end up with kefir with good bacteria.

Whatever the proteins were to begin with, they are different

once the kefir bacteria work them over. In either case, kefirized

milk is easier to digest and safer than the original product. My

take is: give the kid (and the dog, chickens, and anyone else

you have in the household) some form of kefir, no matter

what raw material you start with (even if it is apple juice or

coconut milk!).

Interestingly, however, I've been noticing that I have *fewer*

problems with milk when it is cooked. (I mean cooked, not

pasteurized). Ditto for my daughter. I think maybe the

issues I was experiencing were due to the hormone

content of the dairy, not the allergic issues, because my

main symptom with dairy was migraines, which for me are

decidedly linked to hormones. Maybe the heat destroys the

hormones? I don't know.

Also, it isn't unusual for babies to get fevers and diarrhea,

tho it IS always worrying. Since my kids have been on kefir

though, we haven't had any cases of " food poisoning " or

major diarrhea, that seems to be a thing of the past. Once

the good bacteria take hold, they seem to give a high level

of protection.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Heidi,

Thanks for your reply. What's the difference between cooked and

pasturized? Isn't pasturized heating until boil?

Thanks, Gail

>

> >My question is: if I pasturize the goats milk and then add the

kefir

> >or piima will the goats milk be just as nutritious as if it were

in

> >a raw state? Or if I decide not to do anything to the pasturized

> >milk,and feed to my baby as is. Isn't the goats milk still a lot

> >better then the formula's on the market?

>

> You'll want to do your own research, but my own opinion

> is that once you " kefirize " milk, it is a whole different thing

> than what you started with. So if you start with raw milk

> (even raw milk with perhaps some bad bacteria) you will

> end up with kefir with good bacteria. If you start out with

> cooked milk, you will end up with kefir with good bacteria.

> Whatever the proteins were to begin with, they are different

> once the kefir bacteria work them over. In either case, kefirized

> milk is easier to digest and safer than the original product. My

> take is: give the kid (and the dog, chickens, and anyone else

> you have in the household) some form of kefir, no matter

> what raw material you start with (even if it is apple juice or

> coconut milk!).

>

> Interestingly, however, I've been noticing that I have *fewer*

> problems with milk when it is cooked. (I mean cooked, not

> pasteurized). Ditto for my daughter. I think maybe the

> issues I was experiencing were due to the hormone

> content of the dairy, not the allergic issues, because my

> main symptom with dairy was migraines, which for me are

> decidedly linked to hormones. Maybe the heat destroys the

> hormones? I don't know.

>

> Also, it isn't unusual for babies to get fevers and diarrhea,

> tho it IS always worrying. Since my kids have been on kefir

> though, we haven't had any cases of " food poisoning " or

> major diarrhea, that seems to be a thing of the past. Once

> the good bacteria take hold, they seem to give a high level

> of protection.

>

> -- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Hi Gail,

I used the NT formula with my baby and loved it. He has never

been sick, only snufflie nose when teething. I used kefirized

pasturized cows milk intially until I could access raw cows milk. I

honestly don't think it was the formula that made your baby sick.

What was the baby getting before you started using the NT formula?

I'd be more afraid of pasturized milk then raw milk. And if you

have to use pasturized I'd be sure to make it into kefir before

using it, but I'd recommend the raw over the pasturized milk anyday.

Why would you want to substitute the liver in NT's other formula?

We used it once and he drank it, but he liked the milk formula

better. If I remember right little liver pieces kept getting caught

in the nipple, which was frustrating!

Hope this helps,

Robin

--- In , " gailann7 " <gailann7@y...>

wrote:

> Hi everyone,

>

> I was giving my 6 month old the raw goats milk N.T baby formula.

> After 5 days of him being on the formula he became ill with a 103

> degress fever. I thought to myself " oh no what have I done to my

> baby " thinking he caught something from the goats. I ended up

taking

> him to his Pediatrician and told her what I was doing. She ended

> up running all kinds of tests. Thank goodness it was only a virus.

> So now after such a scare I'm afraid to give him the raw goats

milk.

>

> My question is: if I pasturize the goats milk and then add the

kefir

> or piima will the goats milk be just as nutritious as if it were

in

> a raw state? Or if I decide not to do anything to the pasturized

> milk,and feed to my baby as is. Isn't the goats milk still a lot

> better then the formula's on the market?

>

> Also does anyone have any suggestions for substituting the raw

liver?

>

> Thanks,

> Gail

[Guest guest]

Hi Robin,

Thanks for your input.

I was giving my baby Carnation Good Start. He had been on CGS for a

month when I switched him to the N.T. milk formula using goat milk.

Five days after switching he got sick so I assumed it was the raw

goats milk. Most people I know are against consuming raw milk

including my baby's pediatrician. It's hard to feel good about

something when most people are against it. And the last thing I want

is something to happen to my baby and hear " I TOLD YOU SO! " That's

why I was inquiring about piima or kefiring the pasturized milk.

My question regarding the liver was intended for the milk formula

using goats milk. Since goats milk is lacking B-12 and low in iron

Sally says include raw liver to make up for the deficency of B-12

and iron. Isn't there something easier to use in place of the liver?

Gail

> > Hi everyone,

> >

> > I was giving my 6 month old the raw goats milk N.T baby formula.

> > After 5 days of him being on the formula he became ill with a

103

> > degress fever. I thought to myself " oh no what have I done to

my

> > baby " thinking he caught something from the goats. I ended up

> taking

> > him to his Pediatrician and told her what I was doing. She ended

> > up running all kinds of tests. Thank goodness it was only a

virus.

> > So now after such a scare I'm afraid to give him the raw goats

> milk.

> >

> > My question is: if I pasturize the goats milk and then add the

> kefir

> > or piima will the goats milk be just as nutritious as if it were

> in

> > a raw state? Or if I decide not to do anything to the pasturized

> > milk,and feed to my baby as is. Isn't the goats milk still a lot

> > better then the formula's on the market?

> >

> > Also does anyone have any suggestions for substituting the raw

> liver?

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Gail

[Guest guest]

>Thanks for your reply. What's the difference between cooked and

>pasturized? Isn't pasturized heating until boil?

>

>Thanks, Gail

I don't know the exact temps used in pastuerizing, but usually they use

the minimum they can get away with. It doesn't kill all the bacteria.

If you BOIL milk it tastes REALLY different.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Boiling is what you do at home. The temperature is higher.

But when you have raw milk and you boil it at home, it's not

homogenized. Maybe it's better when you boil just the amount you need

and drink right away when it's cooled down again???

CU Anja

> What's the difference between cooked and pasturized? Isn't

pasturized heating until boil?

> Thanks, Gail

[Guest guest]

Gail,

those people thinking bad of raw milk, do you really think they are

going to think good of kefir? There are people who believe kefir (and

kombucha) may become contaminated and make people sick, grains growing

further in the intestines etc. all those stories, you hear one of

them, you heard them all. And, it's not about other people, it's about

you and your baby. How about you drink the same milk as your baby? Of

course, as you spend a lot of time with him, there still is the chance

that you both caught some infection elsewhere. Best bet, buy a good

book about raw milk and educate yourself, then you can resist all the

talk coming from uneducated (in this field) people. And just don't

talk about raw milk to anybody. Only to people who drink it

themselves, because they are not going to scare you out of it. I did

like your pediatrics reaction, though, he/she didn't just think it was

the raw milk because you told him so but discovered that it wasn't the

raw milk! Not all drs would go that far. It's more work. You go there

and tell them you have this and that problem and think this and that

is the reason, most would be lazy enough to just believe you and seek

no further! I mean, if I went to a dr and told him that since I was

drinking raw milk I was having diarrhea, what are most drs going to

tell me? Stop drinking the raw milk and if the diarrhea continues,

come seeing me again. If anybody has a dr. who'd take a stool sample

but still has the same advise, keep him!

But sure, kefirized pasteurized milk is better than just pasteurized milk!

CU Anja

> Most people I know are against consuming raw milk

> including my baby's pediatrician. It's hard to feel good about

> something when most people are against it. And the last thing I want

> is something to happen to my baby and hear " I TOLD YOU SO! " That's

> why I was inquiring about piima or kefiring the pasturized milk.

> Gail

[Guest guest]

At 01:56 AM 5/10/2004, you wrote:

> There are people who believe kefir (and

>kombucha) may become contaminated and make people sick, grains growing

>further in the intestines etc. all those stories, you hear one of

>them, you heard them all.

I might also point out that whenever you expose yourself to

a new bacteria (even a harmless one) your body can react.

A lot of happy kefir drinkers started out with some gut

reaction to it.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Hi Gail,

Of course your pediatrician and most people are against

consuming raw milk. They don't know the real facts. You should

read and study more about this for yourself before taking anyones

word on it. A good place to start is www.realmilk.com,

www.rawmilk.org, www.price-pottenger.org and www.westonaprice.org.

Get a copy of The Milk Book by , M.D. Here

is a paragraph on the back of A Campaign for Real Milk brochure that

I have.

" Studies show that children fed raw milk had more resistance to

TB than children fed pasteurized milk (Lancet, p 1142, 5/8/37); that

raw milk is very effective in preventing scurvy and protecting

against flu, diphtheria and pneumonia (Am J Dis Child, Nov 1917);

that raw milk prevented tooth decay, even in children who ate a lot

of sugar (Lancer, p 1142. 5/8/37); that raw milk is better than

pasteurized milk promoting growth and calcium absorption (Ohio

Agricultural Experiment Station Bulletin 518, p 8, 1/33); that a

substance present in raw cream (but not in pasteurized cream)

prevents joint stiffness and the pain of arthritis (Annual Review of

Biochemistry, 18: 435, 1944); and that chidren who drink raw milk

have fewer allergic skin problems and far less asthma than children

who drink pasteurized milk (Lancer 353: 1485, 1999). "

IMO, I think your baby was detoxing from the Carnation Good

Start when you switched him to the NT Formula. His getting sick was

the bodies way of getting rid of the junk he had build up in his

system from the CGS. His body was waiting for an opportunity to

detox and once it did you freaked. It's a mom thing, I know. Thats

why I recommend that you study up more on raw milk until you are

convinced that it is the best option for you and your baby.

Otherwise, you'll be afraid of it for no reason.

In regards to the raw liver, I think its the best choice. I

have only used raw cows milk, so I'm not familiar with using the raw

goats milk. I don't understand what is difficult about using the

raw liver though. I'd cut it into small ice cube tray size chunks

to keep in your freezer. That way you only need to take out a chunk

at a time for quicker thawing time and use.

Robin

> > > Hi everyone,

> > >

> > > I was giving my 6 month old the raw goats milk N.T baby

formula.

> > > After 5 days of him being on the formula he became ill with a

> 103

> > > degress fever. I thought to myself " oh no what have I done to

> my

> > > baby " thinking he caught something from the goats. I ended up

> > taking

> > > him to his Pediatrician and told her what I was doing. She

ended

> > > up running all kinds of tests. Thank goodness it was only a

> virus.

> > > So now after such a scare I'm afraid to give him the raw goats

> > milk.

> > >

> > > My question is: if I pasturize the goats milk and then add the

> > kefir

> > > or piima will the goats milk be just as nutritious as if it

were

> > in

> > > a raw state? Or if I decide not to do anything to the

pasturized

> > > milk,and feed to my baby as is. Isn't the goats milk still a

lot

> > > better then the formula's on the market?

> > >

> > > Also does anyone have any suggestions for substituting the raw

> > liver?

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > Gail

[Guest guest]

I'm one of those that had a gut reaction to most all fermented

foods, including kefir.

Robin

> > There are people who believe kefir (and

> >kombucha) may become contaminated and make people sick, grains

growing

> >further in the intestines etc. all those stories, you hear one of

> >them, you heard them all.

>

> I might also point out that whenever you expose yourself to

> a new bacteria (even a harmless one) your body can react.

> A lot of happy kefir drinkers started out with some gut

> reaction to it.

>

> -- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>

> Where do you live in Canada?

> There is a brand of organic, un-homogenised milk that is sold here

in Ontario by a dairy

> farm called Harmony Organics.

> It is available in most health food stores.

Hi Pratick,

We don't have that brand here, unfortunately. We do have a brand of

non-organic non-homogenised milk here (Avalon). I have requested that

they offer a non-homogenised milk in their organic line.

Hi Sonya,

About the liver in the formula, whizzing the liver in a blender with

some liquid might puree it properly. Has anyone done that?

Food processors don't puree things well at all compared to blenders. I

think that my dad would whizz up lamb heart for me that way when I was

a baby. I was allergic to a lot of things, so that was recommended.

Pretty WAP, huh? Unfortunately, I was also given soy formula.

[Guest guest]

Actually, I tried both the blender AND food processor. If you think

about it it makes sense that the liver would not completely liquify.

Imagine blending a banana and expecting the liquid to fit through the

baby's bottle nipple - to me it sounds impossible, and it is.

>

>

> >

> > Where do you live in Canada?

> > There is a brand of organic, un-homogenised milk that is sold here

> in Ontario by a dairy

> > farm called Harmony Organics.

> > It is available in most health food stores.

>

> Hi Pratick,

>

> We don't have that brand here, unfortunately. We do have a brand of

> non-organic non-homogenised milk here (Avalon). I have requested

that

> they offer a non-homogenised milk in their organic line.

>

> Hi Sonya,

>

> About the liver in the formula, whizzing the liver in a blender with

> some liquid might puree it properly. Has anyone done that?

> Food processors don't puree things well at all compared to

blenders. I

> think that my dad would whizz up lamb heart for me that way when I

was

> a baby. I was allergic to a lot of things, so that was recommended.

> Pretty WAP, huh? Unfortunately, I was also given soy formula.

>

>

[Guest guest]

thebestcolours wrote:

>

>

> Actually, I tried both the blender AND food processor. If you think

> about it it makes sense that the liver would not completely liquify.

> Imagine blending a banana and expecting the liquid to fit through the

> baby's bottle nipple - to me it sounds impossible, and it is.

Actually, we had to do exactly that! If you add a little liquid to the

banana, it can liquify to the point it will go through a tiny little

opening. We do it, in fact, with hamburger too. However, we have a

Vitamix, which we bought for expressly that purpose. Pricey, but worth

it if you have the need.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Maybe my blender/cuisinart are not powerful enough. Think you can put

liver through a juicer? I might try that next.

> >

> >

> > Actually, I tried both the blender AND food processor. If you

think

> > about it it makes sense that the liver would not completely

liquify.

> > Imagine blending a banana and expecting the liquid to fit through

the

> > baby's bottle nipple - to me it sounds impossible, and it is.

>

> Actually, we had to do exactly that! If you add a little liquid to

the

> banana, it can liquify to the point it will go through a tiny

little

> opening. We do it, in fact, with hamburger too. However, we have a

> Vitamix, which we bought for expressly that purpose. Pricey, but

worth

> it if you have the need.

>

> -- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

thebestcolours wrote:

> > Actually, I tried both the blender AND food processor. If you think

> > about it it makes sense that the liver would not completely liquify.

> > Imagine blending a banana and expecting the liquid to fit through

the baby's bottle nipple - to me it sounds impossible, and it is.

> Actually, we had to do exactly that! If you add a little liquid to the

> banana, it can liquify to the point it will go through a tiny little

> opening. We do it, in fact, with hamburger too. However, we have a

> Vitamix, which we bought for expressly that purpose. Pricey, but worth

> it if you have the need.

>

> -- Heidi Jean

I wonder if liver is still tricky if one's blender isn't powerful

enough, as Heidi is suggesting. Has anyone made the formula in such a

way that it definitely fit through a baby's bottle nipple? Adding

liquid to things you puree in a blender or food processor is essential

to make a thourough puree (unless you're processing something really

watery like berries), sure, but maybe liver is too tough? I'll also

post on Chapter Leaders and hopefully Sally or someone will have some

tips.

[Guest guest]

> Maybe my blender/cuisinart are not powerful enough. Think you can put

> liver through a juicer? I might try that next.

>

Sorry so late to the discussion but I been sick. A lovely 5 day viral

detoxification that had me flat on my back.

I'm embarrassed to admit this but I bought one of those Magic Bullet

thingies that they advertise on TV. The good news is that it actually works

BETTER than they describe and I expected. The motor is pretty substantial

and the mechanisms all work together properly. I tossed the big blender and

juicer attachments and just use the enclosed " bullet " sealed containers. My

guess is that it would completely liquefy liver in about 30 seconds. I've

used it to puree garlic in water several times and the garlic freakin

disappears! Must turn it into garlic vapor. I've never seen a blender or

food processor do that. Cleanup is instant -- throw the pieces in the

dishwasher.

Couldn't find the manufacturer's page but here's a vendor link.

http://tinyurl.com/6g9bb I don't know this vendor, so this is not a site I'm

recommending. IIRC you can find the Bullet for less money at the big box

kitchen stores now.

Ron

[Guest guest]

RBJR wrote:

>

> > Maybe my blender/cuisinart are not powerful enough. Think you can put

> > liver through a juicer? I might try that next.

> >

>

> Sorry so late to the discussion but I been sick. A lovely 5 day viral

> detoxification that had me flat on my back.

>

> I'm embarrassed to admit this but I bought one of those Magic Bullet

> thingies that they advertise on TV. The good news is that it actually works

> BETTER than they describe and I expected. The motor is pretty substantial

> and the mechanisms all work together properly. I tossed the big blender and

> juicer attachments and just use the enclosed " bullet " sealed containers. My

> guess is that it would completely liquefy liver in about 30 seconds. I've

> used it to puree garlic in water several times and the garlic freakin

> disappears! Must turn it into garlic vapor. I've never seen a blender or

> food processor do that. Cleanup is instant -- throw the pieces in the

> dishwasher.

No kidding, it actually works? It's a great idea but I'm so darn

skeptical of most of those things ...

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

> >Couldn't find the manufacturer's page but here's a vendor link.

> >http://tinyurl.com/6g9bb I don't know this vendor, so this

> is not a site I'm

> >recommending. IIRC you can find the Bullet for less money

> at the big box

> >kitchen stores now.

>

> It certainly looks neat, but if, like a VitaMix, it heavily heats and

> aerates the food, you'll just wind up destroying a lot of

> valuable nutrients.

Well, you got me curious. I put about a cup and a half of tap water in the

large bullet and blended for 30 seconds. (That's much longer than it took

to dissolve my garlic cloves, btw.) The water temperature went from 67

degrees to 72 degrees. I think Aajanous V. would approve.

The unit is basically a blender with a few ingenious modifications to make

it more efficient for specific functions.

I love to eat raw eggs but have not spent the time to get myself over the

slime gag factor. Ever since I got the Magic Bullet I make eggnog with

three eggs and about 200 calories worth of raw milk. The combination is

perfectly blended with no gooey parts left over and it takes me less than a

minute from the time I start pulling out the ingredients until the rinsed

pieces are in the dishwasher. Before I got it I was spending about 10

minutes every morning making the concoction with a hand blender and having

to clean and clean until I was happy with results.

It's a great appliance even if it is kind of ugly. I highly recommend it.

Ron