Guest guest Posted February 3, 2002 Report Share Posted February 3, 2002 > > > Andy, > > > I do not mean to be difficult or rude in any way. If this is really > > > > a huge issue, I will leave the list. I do not feel comfortable giving > > > > out personal information like what state I live in to people I have > > just met, let alone the town, or my last name.. it's not something > > that a teenager should be doing online. > > > > It would be perfectly acceptable to provide verifiable information > > privately to someone relevant, e. g. myself, Moria, Lyn Redwood. > > > > What is appropriate at this point is that concerned people on the list > > > > have a good reason to believe your story is as stated when they think > > they have a good reason to be suspicious. > > > > If you would prefer to have your parents make the contact that is also > > > > fine. If they provide verifiable identity information but state that > > they wish your identity to remain confidential I am sure everyone > > would be glad to honor that request. > > > > What is NOT fine is asking for people to take part in a poll > > disclosing sensitive and potentially legally significant information > > (some of the parents may be pursuing legal action via the NVIC or > > other routes) and then to refuse to provide verifiable identifying > > information or any way to check your story when asked to do so by some > > > > concerned people. > > > > You may wish to ask your parents' advice on this - after all, you are > > saying that as a minor you shouldn't be giving out personal > > information on the internet, which is quite reasonable. As a minor, > > you should also let your parents make these kinds of decisions for > > you. Please share this e-mail with them, remind them that I am not > > the only one on list who has been asking that you provide some > > verifiable identification to support your story, and that it is common > > > > (and in many situations required by law) that when people send you > > surveys in the mail or call you up for a telephone survey the first > > thing they do is clearly and unambiguously identify themselves and > > tell you how to get in touch with them. > > > > > > >I know that many people do post this information about themselves but > > > > they don't have to worry about the same things that a kid does.. I am > > a frequenter user of the #autism channel and if you stop in any time > > of day, I am sure there will be someone there who will know who I am.. > > > > but if this is really a big issue, I don't wish to create a > > disturbance so I will leave the group. I hope you can understand that > > > > I simply can not give out that information to anyone... it is not > > safe. > > > > This is a not unreasonable attitude for a 15 year old girl. Perhaps > > you should have one of your parents contact a responsible adult on the > > > > list to exchange enough information that everyone's needs are > > satisfied - yours for security, ours for a different kind of security > > - rather than feel compelled to leave the list. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2002 Report Share Posted February 4, 2002 Roxanne, I personally think " Kendra " is a cynical marketing executive, working for one of the Pharmaceutical companies, or a " stooge " working for their lawyers. It was interesting how the style of the e-mails changed into a more age appropriate style once we questioned the feasibility of the rhetoric in a 15 year old. Celia (who's also cynical but has been there and seen that before) [ ] More information > " Another option for Kendra is to give her personal information to Andy > privately if she feels strange about it going out to all of us. He can > then do the check and get back to us with his findings. This option is > MORE than fair. " > > Andy, > > If this girl is unwilling to give you, Moria, or Lyn her information for > verification, then I am left to assume that our suspicions are valid > about all of this. The option I suggested above was indeed fair so that > her personal information was not being spread across the list. There is > no threat involved in giving her information to one of you especially in > light of the fact that you asked she show your last email to her parents > for their suggestions. > > I believe that Kendra's wanting to leave the list now rather than let us > know her real identity is an easy way out because she cannot seem to > back up her story. If this girl is trusting enough to go out there with > a survey and her email address attached in the first place, then she had > better be responsible enough to backup her claims. Just for the record, > I feel that parental consent should have been given in the beginning > before Kendra ever decided to circulate her survey to this or any other > list. > > What I feel bad about now is that there are many list mates who probably > in good faith filled out this " survey " and have now possibility aided in > something that was not of good intent (or at least feels that way > anyway). When we started making inquiries about all of this Kendra > became very vague, but she then began making other posts which were > seeking similar sorts of information to that of the survey material. As > well she made reference to a Maurice article about " Recovery > from Autism " through behavioral intervention. Maurice has in > the past and possibly still does, clearly denounce the effectiveness of > Biological Treatments for Autism. Why would Kendra send an article like > that to this list when most people here are all about Biological > Treatments? > > This all feels a bit strange...don't you think? > > Friends, > Roxanne > > ********************************* > > > andrewhallcutler wrote: > > > > > > Andy, > > > I do not mean to be difficult or rude in any way. If this is really > > > > a huge issue, I will leave the list. I do not feel comfortable giving > > > > out personal information like what state I live in to people I have > > just met, let alone the town, or my last name.. it's not something > > that a teenager should be doing online. > > > > It would be perfectly acceptable to provide verifiable information > > privately to someone relevant, e. g. myself, Moria, Lyn Redwood. > > > > What is appropriate at this point is that concerned people on the list > > > > have a good reason to believe your story is as stated when they think > > they have a good reason to be suspicious. > > > > If you would prefer to have your parents make the contact that is also > > > > fine. If they provide verifiable identity information but state that > > they wish your identity to remain confidential I am sure everyone > > would be glad to honor that request. > > > > What is NOT fine is asking for people to take part in a poll > > disclosing sensitive and potentially legally significant information > > (some of the parents may be pursuing legal action via the NVIC or > > other routes) and then to refuse to provide verifiable identifying > > information or any way to check your story when asked to do so by some > > > > concerned people. > > > > You may wish to ask your parents' advice on this - after all, you are > > saying that as a minor you shouldn't be giving out personal > > information on the internet, which is quite reasonable. As a minor, > > you should also let your parents make these kinds of decisions for > > you. Please share this e-mail with them, remind them that I am not > > the only one on list who has been asking that you provide some > > verifiable identification to support your story, and that it is common > > > > (and in many situations required by law) that when people send you > > surveys in the mail or call you up for a telephone survey the first > > thing they do is clearly and unambiguously identify themselves and > > tell you how to get in touch with them. > > > > > > >I know that many people do post this information about themselves but > > > > they don't have to worry about the same things that a kid does.. I am > > a frequenter user of the #autism channel and if you stop in any time > > of day, I am sure there will be someone there who will know who I am.. > > > > but if this is really a big issue, I don't wish to create a > > disturbance so I will leave the group. I hope you can understand that > > > > I simply can not give out that information to anyone... it is not > > safe. > > > > This is a not unreasonable attitude for a 15 year old girl. Perhaps > > you should have one of your parents contact a responsible adult on the > > > > list to exchange enough information that everyone's needs are > > satisfied - yours for security, ours for a different kind of security > > - rather than feel compelled to leave the list. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2002 Report Share Posted February 4, 2002 In the girls defense, I believe you are not allowed to give personal info out on the web. If she gives her school name, who knows what psycho can come, and stalk her. It's a strange world out there, so...just a thought-Shari [ ] More information " Another option for Kendra is to give her personal information to Andy privately if she feels strange about it going out to all of us. He can then do the check and get back to us with his findings. This option is MORE than fair. " Andy, If this girl is unwilling to give you, Moria, or Lyn her information for verification, then I am left to assume that our suspicions are valid about all of this. The option I suggested above was indeed fair so that her personal information was not being spread across the list. There is no threat involved in giving her information to one of you especially in light of the fact that you asked she show your last email to her parents for their suggestions. I believe that Kendra's wanting to leave the list now rather than let us know her real identity is an easy way out because she cannot seem to back up her story. If this girl is trusting enough to go out there with a survey and her email address attached in the first place, then she had better be responsible enough to backup her claims. Just for the record, I feel that parental consent should have been given in the beginning before Kendra ever decided to circulate her survey to this or any other list. What I feel bad about now is that there are many list mates who probably in good faith filled out this " survey " and have now possibility aided in something that was not of good intent (or at least feels that way anyway). When we started making inquiries about all of this Kendra became very vague, but she then began making other posts which were seeking similar sorts of information to that of the survey material. As well she made reference to a Maurice article about " Recovery from Autism " through behavioral intervention. Maurice has in the past and possibly still does, clearly denounce the effectiveness of Biological Treatments for Autism. Why would Kendra send an article like that to this list when most people here are all about Biological Treatments? This all feels a bit strange...don't you think? Friends, Roxanne ********************************* andrewhallcutler wrote: > > > Andy, > > I do not mean to be difficult or rude in any way. If this is really > > a huge issue, I will leave the list. I do not feel comfortable giving > > out personal information like what state I live in to people I have > just met, let alone the town, or my last name.. it's not something > that a teenager should be doing online. > > It would be perfectly acceptable to provide verifiable information > privately to someone relevant, e. g. myself, Moria, Lyn Redwood. > > What is appropriate at this point is that concerned people on the list > > have a good reason to believe your story is as stated when they think > they have a good reason to be suspicious. > > If you would prefer to have your parents make the contact that is also > > fine. If they provide verifiable identity information but state that > they wish your identity to remain confidential I am sure everyone > would be glad to honor that request. > > What is NOT fine is asking for people to take part in a poll > disclosing sensitive and potentially legally significant information > (some of the parents may be pursuing legal action via the NVIC or > other routes) and then to refuse to provide verifiable identifying > information or any way to check your story when asked to do so by some > > concerned people. > > You may wish to ask your parents' advice on this - after all, you are > saying that as a minor you shouldn't be giving out personal > information on the internet, which is quite reasonable. As a minor, > you should also let your parents make these kinds of decisions for > you. Please share this e-mail with them, remind them that I am not > the only one on list who has been asking that you provide some > verifiable identification to support your story, and that it is common > > (and in many situations required by law) that when people send you > surveys in the mail or call you up for a telephone survey the first > thing they do is clearly and unambiguously identify themselves and > tell you how to get in touch with them. > > > >I know that many people do post this information about themselves but > > they don't have to worry about the same things that a kid does.. I am > a frequenter user of the #autism channel and if you stop in any time > of day, I am sure there will be someone there who will know who I am.. > > but if this is really a big issue, I don't wish to create a > disturbance so I will leave the group. I hope you can understand that > > I simply can not give out that information to anyone... it is not > safe. > > This is a not unreasonable attitude for a 15 year old girl. Perhaps > you should have one of your parents contact a responsible adult on the > > list to exchange enough information that everyone's needs are > satisfied - yours for security, ours for a different kind of security > - rather than feel compelled to leave the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2002 Report Share Posted February 4, 2002 At 08:56 AM 2/4/2002 -0500, you wrote: >In the girls defense, I believe you are not allowed to give personal info out on the web. If she gives her school name, who knows what psycho can come, and stalk her. It's a strange world out there, so...just a thought-Shari Dear Shari, Please note that Kendra has already brought up the safety issue and that Andy, and, um, Roxanne (? sorry I'm not sure who), have already suggested a reasonable alternative: that Kendra (or Kendra's parents) can contact me or Andy or Lyn Redwood to give one of us some basic verifyable information. This really is a very safe option. It is fine with me if Kendra (or her parents) do this. I'd be willing to do the work involved. This option has been more than mentioned, it has been spelled out. If Kendra (or her parents) have any questions about it, they are certainly free to contact me or Lyn or Andy privately. Anyone can reach BOTH me and Lyn by writing to autism treatment-owner or to Andy at AndyCutler@... . best wishes, Moria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2002 Report Share Posted February 4, 2002 Dear Roxanne, My father just sent an email to Andy in private providing him with information to get in contact with him. I really hope that they will talk and that this will be straightened out.. I have great regrets about the way that all of this turned out. I began as a 15 yr old girl who has a great passion in learning about autism and working with autistic children. I came on with intentions of finding advice and stories from people who have a great level of expertise in the area of autism, as well as the connection between the MMR vaccine and autism. Should I choose to leave the list, which I very much hope that I will not have to do, I will return to the same person I was before. I will go to the local autism meeting on Thursday night, with the mother of the two autistic boys I babysit for. I will continue to fill out my assignments for the online ABA course that I am taking. I will go to the special needs preschool tomorrow to volunteer and on Saturday, I will babysit for those wonderful little boys once again. What will be different is that I will have lost out on an opportunity to educate myself in an area that I have previously not had much experience in. I believe that I played a large part in the negative spin that my request for information has caused... If i had known any other way to deal with the situation, any other way to go about doing it, I would have. Unfortunately, I have not had the years of experience, nor the dealings with issues such as these, to know what is appropriate and what is not. I feel awful about what people have come to think of me and mostly because I feel like had I gone about it a different way, or if I had simply not come on at all, that I could have avoided it. But at the same time, I am very grateful to the information I have received the few days I have been on the list. As far as the article I sent about Maurice, I had no intention of stirring up debate nor defying the ideas that this group stands for. I received the article as part of the online aba course I am taking. As I said, I haven't even read the article. I know absolutely nothing about Maurice, other than the 230 pages I have read so far in her book. I take no sides and have no opinions about the validity of any approaches.. I believe that if a certain method has worked with just ONE child, as long as it is reasonable and well-intentioned, that it is a good treatment.. I think that every child is different and that there are so many options out there. I have learned about a ton of these methods from the boys that I babysit: ABA, Son-Rise, physical therapy, dietary intervention, occupational therapy, vision therapy, horse therapy, speech therapy... but I think they have all helped.. so as far as giving the link to an article that was written by a person who opposes biomedical approaches, I had absolutely no knowledge of that at all.. it was a neutral offer to someone looking for the information. I would just like to extend apologies to everyone for any disturbance, suspicion, or anger I have caused. I truly hope that those on this list that have responded to my survey don't regret it, because I am so thankful towards them. Take care, Kendra On Sun, 03 February 2002, Roxanne & Ed Przybysz wrote: > > <html><body> > > > <tt> > & quot;Another option for Kendra is to give her personal information to Andy<BR> > privately if she feels strange about it going out to all of us. & nbsp; He can<BR> > then do the check and get back to us with his findings. & nbsp; This option is<BR> > MORE than fair. & quot;<BR> > <BR> > Andy,<BR> > <BR> > If this girl is unwilling to give you, Moria, or Lyn her information for<BR> > verification, then I am left to assume that our suspicions are valid<BR> > about all of this. & nbsp; The option I suggested above was indeed fair so that<BR> > her personal information was not being spread across the list. & nbsp; There is<BR> > no threat involved in giving her information to one of you especially in<BR> > light of the fact that you asked she show your last email to her parents<BR> > for their suggestions.<BR> > <BR> > I believe that Kendra's wanting to leave the list now rather than let us<BR> > know her real identity is an easy way out because she cannot seem to<BR> > back up her story. & nbsp; If this girl is trusting enough to go out there with<BR> > a survey and her email address attached in the first place, then she had<BR> > better be responsible enough to backup her claims. & nbsp; Just for the record,<BR> > I feel that parental consent should have been given in the beginning<BR> > before Kendra ever decided to circulate her survey to this or any other<BR> > list.<BR> > <BR> > What I feel bad about now is that there are many list mates who probably<BR> > in good faith filled out this & quot;survey & quot; and have now possibility aided in<BR> > something that was not of good intent (or at least feels that way<BR> > anyway). & nbsp; When we started making inquiries about all of this Kendra<BR> > became very vague, but she then began making other posts which were<BR> > seeking similar sorts of information to that of the survey material. & nbsp; As<BR> > well she made reference to a Maurice article about & quot;Recovery<BR> > from Autism & quot; through behavioral intervention. & nbsp; & nbsp; Maurice has in<BR> > the past and possibly still does, clearly denounce the effectiveness of<BR> > Biological Treatments for Autism. & nbsp; Why would Kendra send an article like<BR> > that to this list when most people here are all about Biological<BR> > Treatments?<BR> > <BR> > This all feels a bit strange...don't you think?<BR> > <BR> > Friends,<BR> > Roxanne<BR> > <BR> > *********************************<BR> > <BR> > <BR> > andrewhallcutler wrote:<BR> > <BR> > & gt; & nbsp; <BR> > & gt; & gt; Andy,<BR> > & gt; & gt; I do not mean to be difficult or rude in any way. & nbsp; If this is really<BR> > & gt;<BR> > & gt; a huge issue, I will leave the list. & nbsp; I do not feel comfortable giving<BR> > & gt;<BR> > & gt; out personal information like what state I live in to people I have<BR> > & gt; just met, let alone the town, or my last name.. it's not something<BR> > & gt; that a teenager should be doing online.<BR> > & gt;<BR> > & gt; It would be perfectly acceptable to provide verifiable information<BR> > & gt; privately to someone relevant, e. g. myself, Moria, Lyn Redwood.<BR> > & gt;<BR> > & gt; What is appropriate at this point is that concerned people on the list<BR> > & gt;<BR> > & gt; have a good reason to believe your story is as stated when they think<BR> > & gt; they have a good reason to be suspicious.<BR> > & gt;<BR> > & gt; If you would prefer to have your parents make the contact that is also<BR> > & gt;<BR> > & gt; fine. & nbsp; If they provide verifiable identity information but state that<BR> > & gt; they wish your identity to remain confidential I am sure everyone<BR> > & gt; would be glad to honor that request.<BR> > & gt;<BR> > & gt; What is NOT fine is asking for people to take part in a poll<BR> > & gt; disclosing sensitive and potentially legally significant information<BR> > & gt; (some of the parents may be pursuing legal action via the NVIC or<BR> > & gt; other routes) and then to refuse to provide verifiable identifying<BR> > & gt; information or any way to check your story when asked to do so by some<BR> > & gt;<BR> > & gt; concerned people.<BR> > & gt;<BR> > & gt; You may wish to ask your parents' advice on this - after all, you are<BR> > & gt; saying that as a minor you shouldn't be giving out personal<BR> > & gt; information on the internet, which is quite reasonable. & nbsp; As a minor,<BR> > & gt; you should also let your parents make these kinds of decisions for<BR> > & gt; you. & nbsp; Please share this e-mail with them, remind them that I am not<BR> > & gt; the only one on list who has been asking that you provide some<BR> > & gt; verifiable identification to support your story, and that it is common<BR> > & gt;<BR> > & gt; (and in many situations required by law) that when people send you<BR> > & gt; surveys in the mail or call you up for a telephone survey the first<BR> > & gt; thing they do is clearly and unambiguously identify themselves and<BR> > & gt; tell you how to get in touch with them.<BR> > & gt;<BR> > & gt;<BR> > & gt; & gt;I know that many people do post this information about themselves but<BR> > & gt;<BR> > & gt; they don't have to worry about the same things that a kid does.. I am<BR> > & gt; a frequenter user of the #autism channel and if you stop in any time<BR> > & gt; of day, I am sure there will be someone there who will know who I am..<BR> > & gt;<BR> > & gt; but if this is really a big issue, I don't wish to create a<BR> > & gt; disturbance so I will leave the group. & nbsp; I hope you can understand that<BR> > & gt;<BR> > & gt; I simply can not give out that information to anyone... it is not<BR> > & gt; safe.<BR> > & gt;<BR> > & gt; This is a not unreasonable attitude for a 15 year old girl. & nbsp; Perhaps<BR> > & gt; you should have one of your parents contact a responsible adult on the<BR> > & gt;<BR> > & gt; list to exchange enough information that everyone's needs are<BR> > & gt; satisfied - yours for security, ours for a different kind of security<BR> > & gt; - rather than feel compelled to leave the list.<BR> > <BR> > <BR> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 4, 2002 Report Share Posted February 4, 2002 By all means, please do so! I would appreciate it very much if someone would visit the Autinet email list, the #autism message board, and especially the #autism chatroom where I have been chatting for 3 years. If that would be of any benefit to people believing in who I am and what I am doing, then it would be wonderful. Take care, Kendra On Sun, 03 February 2002, " andrewhallcutler " wrote: > > <html><body> > > > <tt> > <BR> > & gt; & gt; & gt; Andy,<BR> > & gt; & gt; & gt; I do not mean to be difficult or rude in any way. & nbsp; If this is <BR> > really<BR> > & gt; & gt;<BR> > & gt; & gt; a huge issue, I will leave the list. & nbsp; I do not feel comfortable <BR> > giving<BR> > & gt; & gt;<BR> > & gt; & gt; out personal information like what state I live in to people I <BR> > have<BR> > & gt; & gt; just met, let alone the town, or my last name.. it's not something<BR> > & gt; & gt; that a teenager should be doing online.<BR> > & gt; & gt;<BR> > & gt; & gt; It would be perfectly acceptable to provide verifiable information<BR> > & gt; & gt; privately to someone relevant, e. g. myself, Moria, Lyn Redwood.<BR> > & gt; & gt;<BR> > & gt; & gt; What is appropriate at this point is that concerned people on the <BR> > list<BR> > & gt; & gt;<BR> > & gt; & gt; have a good reason to believe your story is as stated when they <BR> > think<BR> > & gt; & gt; they have a good reason to be suspicious.<BR> > & gt; & gt;<BR> > & gt; & gt; If you would prefer to have your parents make the contact that is <BR> > also<BR> > & gt; & gt;<BR> > & gt; & gt; fine. & nbsp; If they provide verifiable identity information but state <BR> > that<BR> > & gt; & gt; they wish your identity to remain confidential I am sure everyone<BR> > & gt; & gt; would be glad to honor that request.<BR> > & gt; & gt;<BR> > & gt; & gt; What is NOT fine is asking for people to take part in a poll<BR> > & gt; & gt; disclosing sensitive and potentially legally significant <BR> > information<BR> > & gt; & gt; (some of the parents may be pursuing legal action via the NVIC or<BR> > & gt; & gt; other routes) and then to refuse to provide verifiable identifying<BR> > & gt; & gt; information or any way to check your story when asked to do so by <BR> > some<BR> > & gt; & gt;<BR> > & gt; & gt; concerned people.<BR> > & gt; & gt;<BR> > & gt; & gt; You may wish to ask your parents' advice on this - after all, you <BR> > are<BR> > & gt; & gt; saying that as a minor you shouldn't be giving out personal<BR> > & gt; & gt; information on the internet, which is quite reasonable. & nbsp; As a <BR> > minor,<BR> > & gt; & gt; you should also let your parents make these kinds of decisions for<BR> > & gt; & gt; you. & nbsp; Please share this e-mail with them, remind them that I am <BR> > not<BR> > & gt; & gt; the only one on list who has been asking that you provide some<BR> > & gt; & gt; verifiable identification to support your story, and that it is <BR> > common<BR> > & gt; & gt;<BR> > & gt; & gt; (and in many situations required by law) that when people send you<BR> > & gt; & gt; surveys in the mail or call you up for a telephone survey the <BR> > first<BR> > & gt; & gt; thing they do is clearly and unambiguously identify themselves and<BR> > & gt; & gt; tell you how to get in touch with them.<BR> > & gt; & gt;<BR> > & gt; & gt;<BR> > & gt; & gt; & gt;I know that many people do post this information about themselves <BR> > but<BR> > & gt; & gt;<BR> > & gt; & gt; they don't have to worry about the same things that a kid does.. I <BR> > am<BR> > & gt; & gt; a frequenter user of the #autism channel and if you stop in any <BR> > time<BR> > & gt; & gt; of day, I am sure there will be someone there who will know who I <BR> > am..<BR> > & gt; & gt;<BR> > & gt; & gt; but if this is really a big issue, I don't wish to create a<BR> > & gt; & gt; disturbance so I will leave the group. & nbsp; I hope you can understand <BR> > that<BR> > & gt; & gt;<BR> > & gt; & gt; I simply can not give out that information to anyone... it is not<BR> > & gt; & gt; safe.<BR> > & gt; & gt;<BR> > & gt; & gt; This is a not unreasonable attitude for a 15 year old girl. & nbsp; <BR> > Perhaps<BR> > & gt; & gt; you should have one of your parents contact a responsible adult on <BR> > the<BR> > & gt; & gt;<BR> > & gt; & gt; list to exchange enough information that everyone's needs are<BR> > & gt; & gt; satisfied - yours for security, ours for a different kind of <BR> > security<BR> > & gt; & gt; - rather than feel compelled to leave the list.<BR> > & gt; <BR> > & gt; <BR> > <BR> > <BR> > </tt> > > <br> > > <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> > > <table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2> > <tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC> > <td align=center><font size= " -1 " color=#003399><b> Sponsor</b></font></td> > </tr> > <tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF> > <td align=center width=470><a href= " http://rd./M=210672.1513963.3091383.1442549/D=egroupweb/S=1705061\ 616:HM/A=655239/R=0/*http://www.prostateinfo.com/piyj " ><img src= " http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/as/astrazeneca/j2.gif " width= " 468 " height= " 60 " border= " 0 " ></a></td> > </tr> > <tr><td><img alt= " " width=1 height=1 src= " http://us.adserver./l?M=210672.1513963.3091383.1442549/D=egroupmai\ l/S=1705061616:HM/A=655239/rand=224465926 " ></td></tr> > </table> > > <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> > > > <br> > <tt> > =======================================================<BR> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2004 Report Share Posted May 18, 2004 Hi again, As a general rule: Use 1 tablespoon of lemon juice, whey (whey is the thin, clear liquid that separates from natural yogurt and cheese. Don't use whey protein powder!), raw vinegar, buttermilk, or yogurt per 1 cup of raw whole grains or beans/legumes. Use 1 tablespoon of sea salt per 4 cups of raw nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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