Re: Stupid gluten question - Heidi (was nutrition and genetics)

[Guest guest]

Heidi, how do you know if someone is gluten intolerant if they show no

symptoms? My dh and dd have bad teeth with lots of decay just as my mil

does. Could this be a gluten problem?

Helen

From: Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@...>

Reply-

Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 13:29:22 -0700

Subject: Re: Re: nutrition and genetics

>IMHO, Price's " Nutrition and Physical Degeneration " had as a strong

>undercurrent the premise that many of what are currently considered

>genetic problems are actually defects that arise precisely because

>the nutrition of the parents was inadequate for reproduction at the

>time the child was conceived/gestated.

Tooth decay, which was one of the things he focused on,

has absolutely been shown to be related to gluten intolerance (as

one dietary cause, for example, I'm sure there are others)

maybe because gluten intolerance robs the body of nutrients

even in an otherwise OK diet. Most gluten intolerant people

have lousy teeth, and so do their kids. So Price's thesis

(that what are considered genetic problems may be nutritional)

is absolutely " proven " at this point.

Though in the case of gluten intolerance it is ALSO genetic.

A tribe of South Americans could have great teeth eating

manioc, but some percentage would get lousy teeth

eating wheat bread, depending on genes.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>Heidi, how do you know if someone is gluten intolerant if they show no

>symptoms? My dh and dd have bad teeth with lots of decay just as my mil

>does. Could this be a gluten problem?

>

>Helen

The only way to tell, really, is with a blood or stool test. A LOT of people

seem to get sick off gluten but may not be IgA gluten

intolerant (of course the tests give a lot of false negatives,

so it's hard to know for sure).

The stool test is pretty pricey, but it's the most accurate.

There is also a new saliva test from York labs, which

also tests for other IgA immune reactions, but I don't

know how it compares.

However, something like 70 percent of folks who have the

suspect genes show up as postive on the stool test, so

it might be cheapest to just have the gene test.

Personally I suspect that most of the tooth decay in America

is rooted in gluten intolerance, esp. after reading Price's work.

Other IgA reactions might cause it too. But the reaction seems

to cause the enamel to form improperly, maybe because of

nutrient malabsorption, or maybe because the calcium just

isn't used correctly (the calcium forms DEPOSITS in the brain

and kidneys and the same people get bone spurs etc, so it's

not a simple matter of lack of calcium).

Some other signs to look for though are osteoporosis

(esp your MIL), canker sores, migraines, depression,

short stature, thin hair, skin problems (esp. itchy skin

or eczema or little red dots on the skin), indigestion,

IBS, pain in the feet or joints. Most folks who are gluten

intolerant don't know they react to wheat, and most don't

think they have digestive problems (I didn't, and I'd pack

away a plate of pasta no problem) but very often they

have some " associated " disease (thin dental enamel

being one of many).

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Some other signs to look for though are osteoporosis

(esp your MIL), canker sores, migraines, depression,

short stature, thin hair, skin problems (esp. itchy skin

or eczema or little red dots on the skin), indigestion,

IBS, pain in the feet or joints. Most folks who are gluten

intolerant don't know they react to wheat, and most don't

think they have digestive problems (I didn't, and I'd pack

away a plate of pasta no problem) but very often they

have some " associated " disease (thin dental enamel

bei

Heidi, I can't believe this. My mil has many of these symptoms and my dh

has a bone spur on his toe. My mil is close to osteoporosis, gets

migraines, has IBS and pain in her joints with some arthritis, as well as

her terrible decayed teeth. I really want to have my family tested now.

Where do I get these tests?

Helen

From: Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@...>

Reply-

Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 00:17:47 -0700

Subject: Re: Stupid gluten question - Heidi (was nutrition and

genetics)

>Heidi, how do you know if someone is gluten intolerant if they show no

>symptoms? My dh and dd have bad teeth with lots of decay just as my mil

>does. Could this be a gluten problem?

>

>Helen

The only way to tell, really, is with a blood or stool test. A LOT of people

seem to get sick off gluten but may not be IgA gluten

intolerant (of course the tests give a lot of false negatives,

so it's hard to know for sure).

The stool test is pretty pricey, but it's the most accurate.

There is also a new saliva test from York labs, which

also tests for other IgA immune reactions, but I don't

know how it compares.

However, something like 70 percent of folks who have the

suspect genes show up as postive on the stool test, so

it might be cheapest to just have the gene test.

Personally I suspect that most of the tooth decay in America

is rooted in gluten intolerance, esp. after reading Price's work.

Other IgA reactions might cause it too. But the reaction seems

to cause the enamel to form improperly, maybe because of

nutrient malabsorption, or maybe because the calcium just

isn't used correctly (the calcium forms DEPOSITS in the brain

and kidneys and the same people get bone spurs etc, so it's

not a simple matter of lack of calcium).

Some other signs to look for though are osteoporosis

(esp your MIL), canker sores, migraines, depression,

short stature, thin hair, skin problems (esp. itchy skin

or eczema or little red dots on the skin), indigestion,

IBS, pain in the feet or joints. Most folks who are gluten

intolerant don't know they react to wheat, and most don't

think they have digestive problems (I didn't, and I'd pack

away a plate of pasta no problem) but very often they

have some " associated " disease (thin dental enamel

being one of many).

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>Heidi, I can't believe this. My mil has many of these symptoms and my dh

>has a bone spur on his toe. My mil is close to osteoporosis, gets

>migraines, has IBS and pain in her joints with some arthritis, as well as

>her terrible decayed teeth. I really want to have my family tested now.

>Where do I get these tests?

>

>Helen

www.finerhealth.com

or York Labs (I haven't memorized their website, but it's easy to find).

Both work mail order. Dr. Fine specializes in gluten intolerance, and has

a good stool test ... which has some advantages he discusses on his

site, but is harder to get people to do! York has a saliva test which is

much easier. The gene test though, is just a swab in the mouth, from

either lab, and THAT is easy. You send them money, they send you

a test kit. If there is a blood draw, you need to get some lab to do it

then they usually send it, but the saliva and stool tests don't need that.

Chances are, if they have a lot of symptoms, a blood are saliva

test will show good results, esp. if they are still eating a normal American

diet. ( " Good " in this case meaning " accurate " ). I went GF for several months

before thinking about testing, which made it harder.

Anyway, to summarize:

A cheek swab will show (accurately) if have the HLA genes in question.

If you have those genes, there is about a 70% chance you are gluten

intolerant. If you do not have those genes, there is very little chance

of gluten intolerance (though there may be other IgA allergies that have

similar symptoms ... gluten is by FAR the most problematic).

A blood test, stool test, or saliva test will show if IgA antigens are being

produced. If they are, then you are definitely gluten intolerant. The stool

test is the most sensitive test. All the tests can show " false negatives " ...

that

is, if the test is negative, that does not necessarily mean you are ok. Some

people just don't produce a lot of IgA of ANY type, but still have symptoms that

resolve if they stop gluten (and they still have the problematic genes).

Some people produce low levels of IgA because they instinctively avoid

those foods. Some people produce IgA, but it stays in the gut where it

belongs, so only the stool test picks it up.

If the IgA antigens are at a high level, then you are " celiac " and REALLY

have to be careful ... that means you have a bit of gut damage (or a lot

of gut damage) which leads to other complications. Not all gluten intolerant

folks develop celiac, but that doesn't mean they are ok ... there are loads

of other problems you can get.

Anyway, that all sounds depressing ... the good news is that it's all curable

and fairly easily, and the GF diet isn't as horrific as folks imagine (my GYN

commented " But ... but ... then you can't eat pizza! " (like so what, I HATE

pizza, but I can make it GF and I do, for my dh, but I can eat all the rare

steak and hashbrowns I want, so life is good!). I cook for clients, employees,

and guests on a regular basis, and no one feels sorry for us! (most don't even

know we have any dietary rules).

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

Heidi, I just checked out the website for York Labs at

http://www.yorkallergyusa.com/panels.html

They have a new elisa test that tests for 113 potential allergens. All you

have to do is send them the money ($379.00 !!) and they send you a finger

prick test. Then you send them your blood and they do the test. I think I

would like to do this test for my family, but I would like to get doctors to

order the tests so our insurance will pay. I wonder how hard that would be?

By the way, thank you so much for all this information. Your saving the

world from gluten, one person at a time!

Helen

From: Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@...>

Reply-

Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 00:33:15 -0700

Subject: Re: Stupid gluten question - Heidi (was nutrition and

genetics)

>Heidi, I can't believe this. My mil has many of these symptoms and my dh

>has a bone spur on his toe. My mil is close to osteoporosis, gets

>migraines, has IBS and pain in her joints with some arthritis, as well as

>her terrible decayed teeth. I really want to have my family tested now.

>Where do I get these tests?

>

>Helen

www.finerhealth.com

or York Labs (I haven't memorized their website, but it's easy to find).

Both work mail order. Dr. Fine specializes in gluten intolerance, and has

a good stool test ... which has some advantages he discusses on his

site, but is harder to get people to do! York has a saliva test which is

much easier. The gene test though, is just a swab in the mouth, from

either lab, and THAT is easy. You send them money, they send you

a test kit. If there is a blood draw, you need to get some lab to do it

then they usually send it, but the saliva and stool tests don't need that.

Chances are, if they have a lot of symptoms, a blood are saliva

test will show good results, esp. if they are still eating a normal American

diet. ( " Good " in this case meaning " accurate " ). I went GF for several months

before thinking about testing, which made it harder.

Anyway, to summarize:

A cheek swab will show (accurately) if have the HLA genes in question.

If you have those genes, there is about a 70% chance you are gluten

intolerant. If you do not have those genes, there is very little chance

of gluten intolerance (though there may be other IgA allergies that have

similar symptoms ... gluten is by FAR the most problematic).

A blood test, stool test, or saliva test will show if IgA antigens are being

produced. If they are, then you are definitely gluten intolerant. The stool

test is the most sensitive test. All the tests can show " false negatives "

.... that

is, if the test is negative, that does not necessarily mean you are ok. Some

people just don't produce a lot of IgA of ANY type, but still have symptoms

that

resolve if they stop gluten (and they still have the problematic genes).

Some people produce low levels of IgA because they instinctively avoid

those foods. Some people produce IgA, but it stays in the gut where it

belongs, so only the stool test picks it up.

If the IgA antigens are at a high level, then you are " celiac " and REALLY

have to be careful ... that means you have a bit of gut damage (or a lot

of gut damage) which leads to other complications. Not all gluten intolerant

folks develop celiac, but that doesn't mean they are ok ... there are loads

of other problems you can get.

Anyway, that all sounds depressing ... the good news is that it's all

curable

and fairly easily, and the GF diet isn't as horrific as folks imagine (my

GYN

commented " But ... but ... then you can't eat pizza! " (like so what, I HATE

pizza, but I can make it GF and I do, for my dh, but I can eat all the rare

steak and hashbrowns I want, so life is good!). I cook for clients,

employees,

and guests on a regular basis, and no one feels sorry for us! (most don't

even

know we have any dietary rules).

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

>They have a new elisa test that tests for 113 potential allergens. All you

>have to do is send them the money ($379.00 !!) and they send you a finger

>prick test. Then you send them your blood and they do the test. I think I

>would like to do this test for my family, but I would like to get doctors to

>order the tests so our insurance will pay. I wonder how hard that would be?

Depends on the doctor, some are quite amenable. That kind of money

is pretty normal for tests, as tests go. But the blood test is for IgG

allergies, I think, not IgA. IgA doesn't show up in the blood well. However,

folks with an IgA allergy to gliaden often have an IgG one too, and it

is good to avoid foods you have an IgG allergy too. However, IgG

allergies aren't always permanent, they can change and go away,

which is nice. IgA allergies are gene-associated and seem to be

permanent, once they get " switched on " . The York saliva test is

new and supposed to be for IgA, but I don't know much about it

other than what I posted from the lab a week or so ago.

>By the way, thank you so much for all this information. Your saving the

>world from gluten, one person at a time!

Heh heh (blowing the smoke from my glutenator pistol).

-- Heidi Jean