RE: paucity of delta, theta, alpha

[Guest guest]

Pete, A/T ratios tend to be low (blue) EC, but okay-to-high (red) with EO and at task, at the front, central, and midline. T/B is low in all conditions, especially temporals and parietals. I wish I could reach in and pluck out or help him integrate whatever the emotional material is that seems to be troubling him. Van Deusen wrote: , My guess is that this guy is

burning so much energy at work (where he "has to" perform), that by the time he gets home he is totally drained. Certainly reducing the very fast activity in the temporals and dealing with the front/back reversals should help some with that. You said his alpha peak looked okay, but how about alpha levels? Does he produce good A/T ratios with eyes closed and block them well with eyes open? It would be kind of unusual for someone with such an uphill EEG to be able to produce alpha very well. Pete On Feb 18, 2008 2:28 PM, <kneurotyk> wrote: I'm trying to reduce excessive beta and hibeta for a person whose complaints are insomnia, chronic pain

and fatigue, anxiety, depression, and lack of motivation / ideation for non-work-related activities. He is a professional who performs very well at work. He does not spend excessive time at the office or bring work home, for the most part. He is a different person at home -- he mostly rests and reads, and has trouble getting interested in house projects or playing. He's good with deadlines but struggles with organizing himself to be productive in non-work realms. He has very hot temporals and front/back reversals, among other things. When we are doing a session (temporal, parietal), his spectrum analyzer looks like an inverted pyramid. Beta and hibeta are dominant; delta and theta are minimal. Alpha PF seems fine (10+), so I am not too worried about squashing the higher frequencies parietally. But, should I be addressing the lower frequencies as well -- e.g.,

rewarding 2-9? Could the lack of low frequencies be contributing to his overall discomfort? . -- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmailhttp://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

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[Guest guest]

Pete, A/T ratios tend to be low (blue) EC, but okay-to-high (red) with EO and at task, at the front, central, and midline. T/B is low in all conditions, especially temporals and parietals. I wish I could reach in and pluck out or help him integrate whatever the emotional material is that seems to be troubling him. Van Deusen wrote: , My guess is that this guy is

burning so much energy at work (where he "has to" perform), that by the time he gets home he is totally drained. Certainly reducing the very fast activity in the temporals and dealing with the front/back reversals should help some with that. You said his alpha peak looked okay, but how about alpha levels? Does he produce good A/T ratios with eyes closed and block them well with eyes open? It would be kind of unusual for someone with such an uphill EEG to be able to produce alpha very well. Pete On Feb 18, 2008 2:28 PM, <kneurotyk> wrote: I'm trying to reduce excessive beta and hibeta for a person whose complaints are insomnia, chronic pain

and fatigue, anxiety, depression, and lack of motivation / ideation for non-work-related activities. He is a professional who performs very well at work. He does not spend excessive time at the office or bring work home, for the most part. He is a different person at home -- he mostly rests and reads, and has trouble getting interested in house projects or playing. He's good with deadlines but struggles with organizing himself to be productive in non-work realms. He has very hot temporals and front/back reversals, among other things. When we are doing a session (temporal, parietal), his spectrum analyzer looks like an inverted pyramid. Beta and hibeta are dominant; delta and theta are minimal. Alpha PF seems fine (10+), so I am not too worried about squashing the higher frequencies parietally. But, should I be addressing the lower frequencies as well -- e.g.,

rewarding 2-9? Could the lack of low frequencies be contributing to his overall discomfort? . -- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmailhttp://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Guest guest]

Pete, A/T ratios tend to be low (blue) EC, but okay-to-high (red) with EO and at task, at the front, central, and midline. T/B is low in all conditions, especially temporals and parietals. I wish I could reach in and pluck out or help him integrate whatever the emotional material is that seems to be troubling him. Van Deusen wrote: , My guess is that this guy is

burning so much energy at work (where he "has to" perform), that by the time he gets home he is totally drained. Certainly reducing the very fast activity in the temporals and dealing with the front/back reversals should help some with that. You said his alpha peak looked okay, but how about alpha levels? Does he produce good A/T ratios with eyes closed and block them well with eyes open? It would be kind of unusual for someone with such an uphill EEG to be able to produce alpha very well. Pete On Feb 18, 2008 2:28 PM, <kneurotyk> wrote: I'm trying to reduce excessive beta and hibeta for a person whose complaints are insomnia, chronic pain

and fatigue, anxiety, depression, and lack of motivation / ideation for non-work-related activities. He is a professional who performs very well at work. He does not spend excessive time at the office or bring work home, for the most part. He is a different person at home -- he mostly rests and reads, and has trouble getting interested in house projects or playing. He's good with deadlines but struggles with organizing himself to be productive in non-work realms. He has very hot temporals and front/back reversals, among other things. When we are doing a session (temporal, parietal), his spectrum analyzer looks like an inverted pyramid. Beta and hibeta are dominant; delta and theta are minimal. Alpha PF seems fine (10+), so I am not too worried about squashing the higher frequencies parietally. But, should I be addressing the lower frequencies as well -- e.g.,

rewarding 2-9? Could the lack of low frequencies be contributing to his overall discomfort? . -- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmailhttp://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Guest guest]

Tony,

Well, that's always a danger when one gets to pontificating on a single case with only bits and pieces of the data.

My thinking was that ordinarily delta and theta, because they are longer waveforms, tend to be 1.5 to 2 times higher in amplitude than 13-21 Hz beta activity--and should be higher than that in relation to high beta. If the ratio is very low (theta/beta), by definition it is heavily unbalanced to whatever is on the bottom (in this case, beta). That means either theta is very low or beta is very high or both. The brain is unbalanced toward very fast activity (especially in the eyes closed EC and eyes open EO resting states). I'm not sure how you would have high slowwave activity AND a low theta/beta ratio.

You can train to reduce fast activity; some also train to increase slower activity. Or you can do both, which a squish of everything above 11 Hz would do.

Hope this isn't just more confusing.

Pete

Am confused now (sorry to butt in) I have low theta/beta ratios and my histogram shows high slow wave activity and hot temporals, I thought I had too much theta but according to your reply to this its not so?

..

-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

Couldn’t he have high delta which could be skewing the data to

slow wave activity even though his theta is low? Or, would that be

unrealistic for delta to skew it that much.

Connie

From:

braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf

Of Van Deusen

Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 4:29 AM

To: braintrainer

Subject: Re: paucity of delta, theta, alpha

Tony,

Well, that's always a danger when one gets to pontificating

on a single case with only bits and pieces of the data.

My thinking was that ordinarily delta and theta, because

they are longer waveforms, tend to be 1.5 to 2 times higher in amplitude than

13-21 Hz beta activity--and should be higher than that in relation to high

beta. If the ratio is very low (theta/beta), by definition it is heavily

unbalanced to whatever is on the bottom (in this case, beta). That means

either theta is very low or beta is very high or both. The brain is

unbalanced toward very fast activity (especially in the eyes closed EC and eyes

open EO resting states). I'm not sure how you would have high slowwave

activity AND a low theta/beta ratio.

You can train to reduce fast activity; some also train to

increase slower activity. Or you can do both, which a squish of

everything above 11 Hz would do.

Hope this isn't just more confusing.

Pete

Am confused now (sorry to butt in) I have low theta/beta ratios and

my histogram shows high slow wave activity and hot temporals, I thought I had

too much theta but according to your reply to this its not so?

..

Error! Filename not specified.

--

Van Deusen

pvdtlc@...

http://www.brain-trainer.com

305/433-3160

The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

Connie,

Yes, that's very possible. He wrote, though, that he thought his theta was high. The " Two Towers " EEG pattern shows spike of delta and spike of high beta, so your idea is right on target.

Pete

Couldn't he have high delta which could be skewing the data to slow wave activity even though his theta is low? Or, would that be unrealistic for delta to skew it that much.

..-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com

305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

Pete -- Duh! I knew that, but I got side-tracked by his peak alpha. Thanks for the reminder. Poor guy! Van Deusen wrote: , With front/back beta reversals, I always teach that you can train down beta in the back IF there is enough alpha! If the alpha theta ratios are lower that, say, 1.3 or so, I would train up alpha. Especially get the 10-12 Hz alpha going.

Pete On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 3:46 PM, <kneurotyk> wrote: Thanks I tried to bring the beta+hibeta down and that was very uncomfortable (P4) for him. He reported increasing anxiety during the session, and BioReview revealed the hibeta actually went up. Maybe he's not ready to feel/process that stuff right now, because his anxiety was diffuse and not related to anything he could articulate. I was thinking of trying to support the slower frequencies first (e.g., reward 6-12, no inhibit at 15-38). What do you think? .--

Van Deusenpvdtlcgmailhttp://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

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[Guest guest]

Pete -- Duh! I knew that, but I got side-tracked by his peak alpha. Thanks for the reminder. Poor guy! Van Deusen wrote: , With front/back beta reversals, I always teach that you can train down beta in the back IF there is enough alpha! If the alpha theta ratios are lower that, say, 1.3 or so, I would train up alpha. Especially get the 10-12 Hz alpha going.

Pete On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 3:46 PM, <kneurotyk> wrote: Thanks I tried to bring the beta+hibeta down and that was very uncomfortable (P4) for him. He reported increasing anxiety during the session, and BioReview revealed the hibeta actually went up. Maybe he's not ready to feel/process that stuff right now, because his anxiety was diffuse and not related to anything he could articulate. I was thinking of trying to support the slower frequencies first (e.g., reward 6-12, no inhibit at 15-38). What do you think? .--

Van Deusenpvdtlcgmailhttp://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.