Re: For was: which sugar is worse

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

thanks for filling me in.

you mean trim the posts way down so the people who receive the digest

don't have to wade thru all the repeated stuff in the reply that was

posted before?

okay, the 3 books that really helped me were:

Potatoes Not Prozac

The Sugar Addict's Total Recovery Program

Your Last Diet.

the author is Dr. Kathleen DesMaisons. her web site is

www.radiantrecovery.com

please bear in mind if you decide to post to the forum, there are a lot

of strict rules so your post may be not be accepted, it might end up

getting deleted, or you might get an email telling you what you did

wrong! the first correcting email will PROBABLY be nice but if you

repeat your mistake you could end up banned!! it's really not all that

bad. you just have to KNOW the rules and STICK to them if you don't want

to get slapped on the wrist. yes i know! it can be horrible. but it

doesn't have to be (follow the rules).

if i could combine her 7 step plan with WAPF I'd be in heaven. but she

recommends cutting out sat. fat.

it turns out, from her and others' research, that those of us who are

'sugar sensitive' also have a marked tendency to put on weight from sat.

fat! and i am living proof (see my previous post...)

while i was on her plan i did not cut out sat. fat. but i reduced it a

substituted olive oil whenever i could. and i lost weight and never

'dieted'. all i did was cut out sugar, white flour and alcohol and try

to eat healthier. that's all!

by the way, in my continuing diatribe on sugar, it is also a known fact

that sugar exacerbates other addictions. getting off sugar can help you

quit alcohol. it also helps food addiction cuz when you cut out sugar

you lose interest in food except when you are hungry. it also helps cure

OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) and related disorders like

tourette's.

anyway.

laura

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:11:57 -0400 " " <jc137@...>

writes:

,

This is funny--I read Adelle as a teenager and her ideas " stuck "

with

me. Finding WAP reminded me of the importance of eating " real food. "

She

advocated too much supplement use, but everything else was spot on, IMO.

ps-we have very few rules here--if you post something way off topic (eg

about birth control) just put " OT: birth control " in the subject line.

And

please trim trim trim your posts and CHANGE THE SUBJECT LINE when the

subject drastically changes. We love book and website references for

things

that have helped you overcome your health issues.

[Guest guest]

,

>

> you mean trim the posts way down so the people who receive the digest

> don't have to wade thru all the repeated stuff in the reply that was

> posted before?

YES--but keep the relevant part of the post that you're responding to.

> it turns out, from her and others' research, that those of us who are

> 'sugar sensitive' also have a marked tendency to put on weight from sat.

> fat! and i am living proof (see my previous post...)

HMMMM-this is contrary to my experience (and others on this list) who have

substantially cut sugar cravings by adding tons of sat. fat to the diet.

What kind of sat. fat do you avoid? I eat grass fed lamb, beef, and pork

fat, butter, and lots of good quality coconut oil. But I don't have the

magnitude of cravings that you describe. Another diet popular in this neck

of the woods is " the Warrior Diet " do a search in the archives and you'll

find plenty (LOL!!!) Heidi (aka, " The Glutenator " and our den mother, IMO)

has stabilized her blood sugar and lost weight on this crazy-seeming diet.

I tried it for awhile, but it doesn't work with my lifestyle very well and I

can't stay on it.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

i no longer cut down on sat. fat., and as i explained in another post

about kefir, i had lost weight cutting down on sat. fat. now that I'm a

WAPF member I've been packing on the lbs with all the raw milk, yogurt,

kefir, butter and cream i have been consuming. it's VERY distressing for

someone who was already a size 18 and is now a size 20.

i have a friend on this list who got me to sign up for this list; she

said a lot of people said the same thing as me, that all these full fat

dairy products were causing weight gain here on this list.

also, talking with WAPF friends, the same with them. it's so VERY

distressing!

i don't know anyone who has lost weight. even a skinny friend of mine

put on weight.

the thing is, when i lost weight on that web site and with those books,

at first you GAIN. then what you gained comes off, and then you keep

losing weight til you stop. that's what happened with me, too.

i googled the warrior diet. i take it it's feasting and fasting. I'm

one who has fasted a lot in the past and ALWAYS without fail put back on

whatever weight i lost AND THEN SOME.

my body wants to be fat, no matter what i do. it's like a disorder.

it's very frustrating.

laura

HMMMM-this is contrary to my experience (and others on this list) who

have

substantially cut sugar cravings by adding tons of sat. fat to the diet.

What kind of sat. fat do you avoid? I eat grass fed lamb, beef, and pork

fat, butter, and lots of good quality coconut oil. But I don't have the

magnitude of cravings that you describe. Another diet popular in this

neck

of the woods is " the Warrior Diet " do a search in the archives and

you'll

find plenty (LOL!!!) Heidi (aka, " The Glutenator " and our den mother,

IMO)

has stabilized her blood sugar and lost weight on this crazy-seeming

diet.

I tried it for awhile, but it doesn't work with my lifestyle very well

and I

can't stay on it.

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry you're having trouble with weight gain--in terms of eating sat.

fat, I was talking about curbing sugar cravings, not losing weight.

Yes, the Warrior Diet is a fast/feast deal, but it also has other

guidelines...you can still eat NT style and avoid dairy--many on this list

do.

Re: For was: which sugar is worse

>

> my body wants to be fat, no matter what i do. it's like a disorder.

> it's very frustrating.

>

> laura

[Guest guest]

hi Marie,

thanks for that.

what I'm thinking...is...i think what i read by Mercola.

I've given up sugar, white flour and alcohol. all three were very

difficult for me. now I'm working on caffeine. this isn't easy either.

somebody said, maybe Mercola, that our bodies were designed, optimally,

to burn fat for energy and not carbs. if you eat a lot of fat, you'll be

thin. if you eat a lot of carbs, you'll be fat.

i can never give up starches for very long. i must be addicted to them,

too and have to work on giving them up, too. sigh. i just hope that's

IT!!

so, Marie, i really appreciate what you said. i don't eat much starch;

a piece of bread here, a baked potato there.

I've tried Atkins several times but always came back to the starches.

anyone have any success getting off and staying off starches? any

secrets? i hate veggies. love fruit.

thanks.

laura

p.s. Marie, does fruit count?

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 14:33:54 -0700 " Marie P " <pollard@...> writes:

I'm a newbie here as well...but I wanted to say...When I eat lots of

dairy, veggies and meat....I do great, losing weight smoothly and slowly

at the moment..

When I eat the dairy, veggies and meat AND grains AND sugar...then I gain

gain gain and feel awful...

Just my experience.

marie

[Guest guest]

, I have to avoid starches totally -- if I break down and have some (just

a little bite), it will create the cravings all over again. Go cold turkey and

in a few days the cravings will cease. I do use fruit but in a limited amount.

I usually try to eat it with some protein. In the beginning I used only berries

and a few nuts when I needed a snack. Now since my body has had some time to

heal I can tolerate more fruits. Irene Chi Marie,anyone have any success getting off and

staying off starches? anysecrets? i hate veggies. love fruit.thanks.laurap.s.

Marie, does fruit count?

_______________________________________________

No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.

Make My Way your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com

[Guest guest]

Busse <laurabusse@j...> wrote:

> my body wants to be fat, no matter what i do. it's like a

> disorder. it's very frustrating.

Most women I know who say they want to loose weight are not fat

in my eyes. I don't understand what they´re talking about. I

like when woman have body fat. I don't think that makes me

an anomaly. I hope I'm not offending anybody here. I don't think

you have a disorder . I think nature just wants to make you

attractive to some men.

Kindly,

Fredrik

Arena for vegheads and meatheads

vegvsmeat/

[Guest guest]

Fredrik,

my husband tells me I'm beautiful. I've over 200 lbs for crying out

loud!! a size 20! technically I'm obese. pretty soon i'll be going to

the camping store to buy a tent to wear!

but i agree with you. the ideal form for women is way too skinny. i

don't wanna be skinny! i don't even want to be thin! i just don't want

to have all this blubber and cellulite! it's pretty hideous.

there was a news article recently about divorced couples; someone

quantified married couples and divorced couples and they found that of

still married couples, the women tended to be curvier, and of the

divorced couples, the women tended to be skinny.

but this may mean that the skinny women were just bitches because of how

little they could eat to make and keep themselves so skinny.

thanks, Fredrik. :-)

laura

Most women I know who say they want to loose weight are not fat

in my eyes. I don't understand what they´re talking about. I

like when woman have body fat. I don't think that makes me

an anomaly. I hope I'm not offending anybody here. I don't think

you have a disorder . I think nature just wants to make you

attractive to some men.

Kindly,

Fredrik

[Guest guest]

> , I have to avoid starches totally -- if I break down and

have some (just a little bite), it will create the cravings all over

again.

Do any of you do sprouted, gluten free, or sourdough for your

grains/flour? That can alleviate some of your problems with carb

addictions. As mentioned Heidi (aka the glutenator) has spoken

extensively on gluten. Just type in gluten to search the archives

and tons of stuff will come up. Dangerous Grains is one book that

has been recommended over and over. You might want to check that

out of the library as a starting point.

Robin

[Guest guest]

> okay, the 3 books that really helped me were:

>

> Potatoes Not Prozac

> The Sugar Addict's Total Recovery Program

> Your Last Diet.

Another really good book is Sugar Blues.

Robin

[Guest guest]

Busse <laurabusse@j...> wrote:

> somebody said, maybe Mercola, that our bodies were designed,

> optimally, to burn fat for energy and not carbs. if you eat

> a lot of fat, you'll be thin. if you eat a lot of carbs,

> you'll be fat.

That's a gross generalisation. I eat a lot of starch every day

(rye bread and rye porridge). I'm not overweight and I'm not

gaining.

> i can never give up starches for very long. i must be addicted

> to them, too and have to work on giving them up, too. sigh. i

> just hope that's IT!!

> anyone have any success getting off and staying off starches?

> any secrets? i hate veggies. love fruit.

Here's a major warning:

I once gave up starchy foods because I thought they were bad.

Immediately I started to gorge on fruit and berries instead,

especially dried ones. I had a couple of fat eating periods

as well but mostly I was a fruit addict besides eating nuts,

vegetables and meat. I had constant attacks of weakness and

fatigue that I thought were normal and would pass. Nothing

happened. After about one and a half years I started to

question why I felt so crappy compared to other people around

me who didn't eat whole foods. I reintroduced starch to my

diet and my weakness, fatigue and unsatisfaction disappeared.

It was a miracle. I felt so stable and happy! For two months

I've been eating mostly rye and fermented dairy. I haven't

had much desire for fruit. I've only eaten it a couple of

times.

Fruit has its limits like all other foods. It's not a

eat-all-you-want food as I thought it was. Modern fruit

seems to be troublesome compared to wild varieties. I wasn't

a fruitarian but here's something to read and ponder:

http://www.beyondveg.com/cat/fruit-dreams/index.shtml

Not all are like me of course but I'm sure many humans

are designed for starch. I know women who have starch as their

primary source of energy and they look fine to me. Although I

eat a lot of butter I don't feel well having fat as my primary

source of energy.

Fredrik,

the fruitphobic and starchlover

Arena for vegheads and meatheads

vegvsmeat/

[Guest guest]

Busse <laurabusse@j...> wrote:

> I've over 200 lbs for crying out

> loud!! a size 20!

Doesn't sound much to me.

> technically I'm obese.

Technically I'm a screwball for avoiding all but whole foods.

> but i agree with you. the ideal form for women is way too

> skinny. i don't wanna be skinny! i don't even want to be thin!

Good to hear that.

> i just don't want to have all this blubber and cellulite! it's

> pretty hideous.

Do as you like. The main thing's you're happy.

> there was a news article recently about divorced couples;

> someone quantified married couples and divorced couples and

> they found that of still married couples, the women tended to

> be curvier, and of the divorced couples, the women tended to

> be skinny. but this may mean that the skinny women were just

> bitches because of how little they could eat to make and keep

> themselves so skinny.

I believe that.

Fredrik

[Guest guest]

>> now that I'm a

WAPF member I've been packing on the lbs with all the raw milk, yogurt,

kefir, butter and cream i have been consuming. it's VERY distressing for

someone who was already a size 18 and is now a size 20. <<

I have lost just a hair under a hundred pounds in the last 13 months, doing

WAPF but also doing Atkins, and getting SEVENTY PERCENT OF MY CALORIES FROM

FAT. I believe that high fat diets only cause obesity when the metabolism is

disordered, and I believe that high carbohydrate/sugar diets do damage our

metabolisms, some of us more severely than others.

I am one for whom the Warrior Diet approach is not at all appealing

(although I do not disagree with the approach for those for whom it IS

appealing). I lose weight and feel best eating breakfast like a king, lunch

like a (what the heck is it.. .merchant?), and dinner like a pauper. I

never, ever miss a meal and I never eat after dinner. I did the " induction "

phase of Atkins for two months, and then switched to Ongoing Weight Loss and

have identified my critical carbohydrate level for losing at just between

30-35 grams of carbs a day, not counting fiber.

I eat absolutely NO low carb processed foods. I use stevia as a sweetener in

my tea of decaf coffee. I get all my carbs from low glycemic veggies,

berries, and melon. I get 70 percent of my calories from fat, around 25-28

percent from protein, and the rest in carbs. I eat between 10-12 times my

body weight in calories. I drink 64 ounces of spring water a day. I don't

drink carbonated beverages. I lift weights.

I have had tons of energy since day 1, even before I lost a pound, and no

cravings. I am blissfully happy and think someone should canonize Dr.

Atkins.

Good luck!

Christie

[Guest guest]

>> i don't eat much starch;

a piece of bread here, a baked potato there. <<

Potatoes are higher on the glycemic index than sugar itself is. They are my

number one binge-trigger food.

Christie

[Guest guest]

>> i just don't want

to have all this blubber and cellulite! it's pretty hideous. <<

You know, as someone quite a bit larger than you.... who is perhaps a bit

older than you and who has been struggling with body image and eating

disorders her whole adult life... I would like to say one thing:

No one has ever made positive, lasting change in their lives out of

self-hatred or disgust.

Christie

[Guest guest]

GREAT quote, Christie--this one's a keeper. Is there a source other than

you?

----- Original Message -----

>

> No one has ever made positive, lasting change in their lives out of

> self-hatred or disgust.

>

> Christie

>

[Guest guest]

>> GREAT quote, Christie--this one's a keeper. Is there a source other than

you? <<

Hmmm, not that I know of.... I think it's pure me. <G>

Thanks!

Christie

[Guest guest]

Well YEAH you!

Re: For was: which sugar is worse

> >> GREAT quote, Christie--this one's a keeper. Is there a source other

than

> you? <<

>

> Hmmm, not that I know of.... I think it's pure me. <G>

>

> Thanks!

>

> Christie

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Christie,

Breakfast like a King (Break - Fast) - After all, you have fasted for 12-13

hours and there's a day's work ahead.

Lunch like a Prince - there's still energy required for the afternoon's

work.

Dine like a Pauper - the day's work is finished you will be relaxing and

sleeping for hours.

Chris

Christie Wrote:

I am one for whom the Warrior Diet approach is not at all appealing

(although I do not disagree with the approach for those for whom it IS

appealing). I lose weight and feel best eating breakfast like a king, lunch

like a (what the heck is it.. .merchant?), and dinner like a pauper. I

never, ever miss a meal and I never eat after dinner. I did the " induction "

phase of Atkins for two months, and then switched to Ongoing Weight Loss and

have identified my critical carbohydrate level for losing at just between

30-35 grams of carbs a day, not counting fiber.

[Guest guest]

*spits kefir all over the screen ROTFLOL*

Fredrik Murman <fpm@...> wrote:

Technically I'm a screwball for avoiding all but whole foods.

Mrs. Siemens

Helpmeet to , mommy to Zachary & Lydia

" For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto

salvation.... "

-Romans 1:16a-

---------------------------------

Post your free ad now! Canada Personals

[Guest guest]

I'm a newbie here as well...but I wanted to say...When I eat lots of dairy,

veggies and meat....I do great, losing weight smoothly and slowly at the

moment..

When I eat the dairy, veggies and meat AND grains AND sugar...then I gain gain

gain and feel awful...

Just my experience.

marie

i have a friend on this list who got me to sign up for this list; she

said a lot of people said the same thing as me, that all these full fat

dairy products were causing weight gain here on this list.

[Guest guest]

Hi Robin,

as a WAPF member i'm aware of sprouting and sourdough.

but i still wonder...does eating sprouted and sourdoughed grains take

care of the weight issue? or do i have to go off grains completely til i

lose what i want, then maybe introduce it back gradually, and if i start

gaining again, just go off them completely?

i'm also aware of the book dangerous grains. maybe i should get the book

from the library and look up 'obesity' in the index.

i know a lot of people lose weight when they give up wheat. maybe all

other grains, too.

thanks, robin.

laura

Do any of you do sprouted, gluten free, or sourdough for your

grains/flour? That can alleviate some of your problems with carb

addictions. As mentioned Heidi (aka the glutenator) has spoken

extensively on gluten. Just type in gluten to search the archives

and tons of stuff will come up. Dangerous Grains is one book that

has been recommended over and over. You might want to check that

out of the library as a starting point.

Robin

[Guest guest]

>> Lunch like a Prince <<

Thanks, Chris! For the life of me I couldn't remember!

Christie

[Guest guest]

Marie,

interesting that you were able to tolerate dairy after you gave up wheat.

i cannot tolerate raw milk, but i am fine with kefir, yogurt, cheese,

etc.

i guess i should try going off wheat for that reason alone; i would LOVE

to be able to drink raw milk. it gives me such horrible pains, gas and

bloating.

veggies. well...i just don't like them. i like them in restaurants if

they're prepared well.

i don't like to cook and I'm a lousy cook.

plus, i keep reading about people who live on only dairy, or only meat,

Eskimos, etc. and think, well, if they can live without veggies, then i

can too.

anyway, I've heard that if you consume a lot of dairy, your desire for

veggies goes down. milk is really just bio-processed grass. if you

drink milk, your body thinks it's had its veggies already. since i

joined WAPF and have greatly increased my dairy consumption (i consume

about a quart of kefir per day plus a quart of yogurt. that's pretty

much breakfast, lunch, snacks and before bed) I've consumed even less

veggies than before WAPF

i envy people who love veggies. i figure they're much better off. my dh

doesn't like them either. plus our son.

laura

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:26:11 -0700 " Marie P " <pollard@...> writes:

:

I gave up wheat bread at once when gluten intolerance was mentioned. When

I was feeling overwhelmed about giving up other grains, Katja suggested I

remember how I " quit " wheat bread, just choose one thing and quit it.

Incidentally I was then able to tolerate dairy with no stomach

disturbance....yay!!!!!

I eat an occasional potato, occasional Rice and Shine hot cereal...no

pasta. I still have trouble with sugary baked goodies....but hey, I

started with bread, and that was a ot easier than I thought.

You hate ALL veggies? good grief what a way to go through life! *L* I

feel bad for you!!!!

marie

Re: For was: which sugar is worse

hi Marie,

thanks for that.

what I'm thinking...is...i think what i read by Mercola.

I've given up sugar, white flour and alcohol. all three were very

difficult for me. now I'm working on caffeine. this isn't easy

either.

somebody said, maybe Mercola, that our bodies were designed, optimally,

to burn fat for energy and not carbs. if you eat a lot of fat, you'll

be

thin. if you eat a lot of carbs, you'll be fat.

i can never give up starches for very long.

[Guest guest]

> veggies. well...i just don't like them. i like them in restaurants if

> they're prepared well.

Look at it this way.

You DO like them, it's just you only like them when they're prepared well.

What's wrong with that? Who would want to eat them if they are NOT prepared

well? Why eat things you don't like?

I wrote this article a while ago, you might get something out of it....

The Food of Love Thing

http://www.caberfeidh.com/FoodOfLove.htm

Christie