Re: Which sugar is worse?

[Guest guest]

Robin,

I avoid all refined carbohydrates. I wouldn't touch them even if

I was starving.

Now to your question. White sugar is sucrose and consists of

molecules of fructose and glucose linked together which the

body separates. A certain amount of white sugar therefore

contains less fructose than the same amount of refined

fructose. I believe refined fructose is way more detrimental

than refined glucose. Here's a web page about the effects of

refined fructose: http://www.drkaslow.com/html/fructose.html.

Therefore, if I had to harm people and would have to choose

between white sugar and fructose, I would choose fructose.

Just an opinion.

Fredrik

> On the bad scale which sugar is worse, white sugar or fructose? My

> family does not like when I cook with other sweetners, including

> stevia. Fructose is the only alternative that my family would

> probably accept. If it's worse than white sugar than I may as well

> just stay with the white sugar, but if it's even remotely better I

> will switch.

>

> Robin

[Guest guest]

Robin, why don't you try to use maple syrup, rapadura (sucanat), honey

or even something like stevia which is sweet but not artificial.

There's plenty of options for healthy sugars out there.

Fructose is extremely bad for you. It has to be processed and stored in

the liver rather than the muscles, and the liver is usually full of

stored sugars at most times, therefore most of the fructose you eat is

turned into fat.

http://www.westonaprice.org/modernfood/highfructose.html

this article from the WAPF is excellent. Check it out.

Which sugar is worse?

On the bad scale which sugar is worse, white sugar or fructose? My

family does not like when I cook with other sweetners, including

stevia. Fructose is the only alternative that my family would

probably accept. If it's worse than white sugar than I may as well

just stay with the white sugar, but if it's even remotely better I

will switch.

Robin

[Guest guest]

, I'm sure it's individual but the so called healthy sweeteners:

honey (ecological) and maple syrup (natural, no additives), both give

me pain in the chest. I can get this pain by eating dried dates

(ecological) as well. I wonder why. Fructose? Swelling of liver? Do

you have any ideas?

Fredrik

> Robin, why don't you try to use maple syrup, rapadura (sucanat),

honey

> or even something like stevia which is sweet but not artificial.

> There's plenty of options for healthy sugars out there.

>

> Fructose is extremely bad for you. It has to be processed and

stored in

> the liver rather than the muscles, and the liver is usually full of

> stored sugars at most times, therefore most of the fructose you eat

is

> turned into fat.

>

> http://www.westonaprice.org/modernfood/highfructose.html

>

> this article from the WAPF is excellent. Check it out.

>

[Guest guest]

> Robin, why don't you try to use maple syrup, rapadura (sucanat),

honey

> or even something like stevia which is sweet but not artificial.

> There's plenty of options for healthy sugars out there.

>

> Fructose is extremely bad for you. It has to be processed and

stored in

> the liver rather than the muscles, and the liver is usually full of

> stored sugars at most times, therefore most of the fructose you

eat is

> turned into fat.

>

> http://www.westonaprice.org/modernfood/highfructose.html

>

> this article from the WAPF is excellent. Check it out.

>

Thank you for all the information on sugars, and Fredrik.

I have tried all of those sweeteners. Rapadura was the most

tolerated but still disliked. I even used it for at least a year

hoping they would get used to it. Nope. They still don't like it.

I actually have half a canister of Rapadura left that I will be

using myself to sweeten my oatmeal, etc. I also have some stevia

(good quality) left that I will be using to sweeten my tea with.

I think if their taste buds were not constantly reminded, by outside

sources, of the difference between white sugar and the other

sweeteners it wouldn't be so difficult. There have been many times

that my husband has outright asked me not to make something again

that I had made with Rapadura, honey, brown rice syrup, sorghum

syrup, etc. , and he is typically quite tolerant with

my " experiments " . I truly have tried everything. The thing that's

frustrating for me is that I like the stuff I make with those

sweeteners. The only thing my husband does like without white sugar

is tea. He prefers sweetening his tea with honey. It's amazing to

think how differently I would cook and eat if I lived by myself.

Robin

[Guest guest]

hi robin,

if i lived by myself, i think i would NEVER cook!! i would just live on

kefir, yogurt, raw cheese, eggs, butter and fruit!

as far as sugar goes, i was on a web site for 3 years and gradually

weaned myself off ALL sweeteners. i thought this would be impossible; i

have been an intense sugar addict from day one but i knew it was killing

me and i had to do something. so for one whole year i consumed no

sweeteners whatsoever. it was WONDERFUL!! i lost weight. i felt great.

i totally lost the desire for sweets. fruit began to taste absolutely

incredible to me; so i would always have fruit for dessert and enjoyed

every bite.

i had some of Sally's almond cookies at a fellow WAPF friend's house the

other day. i knew i shouldn't cuz it might set up cravings.

well, i was right. the next day i was craving chocolate. that night my

son asked me to take him for an ice cream (dad was at volleyball

otherwise he would have asked him) so i took him and had a choc. cone.

the next day, yesterday, i was completely wiped out as a result. (sugar

makes you tired. so if you get it out of your diet, you get more

energetic. but then, sometimes a taste of sugar will cause some

tiredness in some people). i got nothing done. it was a 'couch' day. i

ended up going to bed at 8 last night and was out by 8:30. so I've been

up since 4 am cuz that was enuf!!

so anyway, that's my $.02 about sweeteners.

laura

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 15:42:47 -0000 " givemeamomenttothink "

<deweyli@...> writes:

> Robin, why don't you try to use maple syrup, rapadura (sucanat),

honey

> or even something like stevia which is sweet but not artificial.

> There's plenty of options for healthy sugars out there.

>

> Fructose is extremely bad for you. It has to be processed and

stored in

> the liver rather than the muscles, and the liver is usually full of

> stored sugars at most times, therefore most of the fructose you

eat is

> turned into fat.

>

> http://www.westonaprice.org/modernfood/highfructose.html

>

> this article from the WAPF is excellent. Check it out.

>

Thank you for all the information on sugars, and Fredrik.

I have tried all of those sweeteners. Rapadura was the most

tolerated but still disliked. I even used it for at least a year

hoping they would get used to it. Nope. They still don't like it.

I actually have half a canister of Rapadura left that I will be

using myself to sweeten my oatmeal, etc. I also have some stevia

(good quality) left that I will be using to sweeten my tea with.

I think if their taste buds were not constantly reminded, by outside

sources, of the difference between white sugar and the other

sweeteners it wouldn't be so difficult. There have been many times

that my husband has outright asked me not to make something again

that I had made with Rapadura, honey, brown rice syrup, sorghum

syrup, etc. , and he is typically quite tolerant with

my " experiments " . I truly have tried everything. The thing that's

frustrating for me is that I like the stuff I make with those

sweeteners. The only thing my husband does like without white sugar

is tea. He prefers sweetening his tea with honey. It's amazing to

think how differently I would cook and eat if I lived by myself.

Robin

[Guest guest]

> hi robin,

>

> if i lived by myself, i think i would NEVER cook!! i would just

live on

> kefir, yogurt, raw cheese, eggs, butter and fruit!

>

> as far as sugar goes, i was on a web site for 3 years and gradually

> weaned myself off ALL sweeteners. i thought this would be

impossible; i

> have been an intense sugar addict from day one but i knew it was

killing

> me and i had to do something. so for one whole year i consumed no

> sweeteners whatsoever. it was WONDERFUL!! i lost weight. i felt

great.

> i totally lost the desire for sweets. fruit began to taste

absolutely

> incredible to me; so i would always have fruit for dessert and

enjoyed

> every bite.

That's great. So you stayed away from all sweeteners? Even

stevia? We limit our children's sugar intake. We actually set up

a " Wednesday treat " for their Wednesday lunch at school. They were

feeling totally deprived every day when all the other kids would

take out all the junk from their lunch boxes. So, I made an

agreement with them that on Wednesdays I would put a junk food item

into their lunchbox. They are also allowed to have half a can of

soda on Sundays at my parent's house. We go there every Sunday for

a b-b-q and, of course, everyone there is drinking soda. My kids

were feeling totally deprived and left out so we compromised with

half a soda.

I have talked with them about why I don't let them have much junk

food and the importance of eating healthy. They understand and do

really good with what I do feed them at home, but kids still don't

like feeling left out when they are at other places. The Wednesday

and Sunday compromise has helped greatly. They feel content with

those treats. It's such a balancing act with kids. When it comes

to food, they respond to not getting what others are having so

personally, feeling sooo deprived. I guess we do it too. Nobody

likes to feel left out.

Robin

[Guest guest]

hi robin,

this is very difficult subject for kids and parents.

yes, i stay away from all sweeteners. if you'd like to know more i can

tell you the web site and the names of the books. i don't know if i

should post it (email it to everyone) or email you privately; i don't

know what the rules are here yet. this is my first day here.

sugar, like caffeine, and i guess alcohol, is a drug. once you're

hooked, you want more and more, and if you go off it, there are

withdrawal symptoms. people like me, like alcoholics, can't just have a

little cuz then you are in full blown relapse. or you have days like i

had one yesterday, i was totally useless yesterday.

as far as kids go...there is no sugar or white flour in my house. all

meals in the house, or prepared for lunches or picnics, are from here. i

know my husband and son will get all the sweets they want out in the real

world, and they do.

my excuse: i can't have it because I'm 'sugar sensitive', and if i have

it in the house I'll eat it and be a sugar junkie as long as there's

stuff in the house.

i explain to them WHY and what it does to you. so my son understands but

still wants it. he's addicted to it. we ALL are.

he's 13 now. he buys his lunch but we are buying a house this summer so

starting in Sept. I'll be packing his lunch.

I'm worried about him when he goes to college. when i went to college, i

ended up having a nervous breakdown because i was literally like a kid in

a candy store at each meal. my nervous system finally collapsed. so i

have a long history. if i was still on sugar i might be in a mental

institution.

by the way, soda, not only does it not have any nutritional value, but it

sucks the vitamins and minerals right out of your body.

my alternative practitioner told me that all mental illnesses have

exactly the same symptoms as severe B vitamin deficiencies. he was

implying that mental illness is caused by sugar and junk food. I'm sure

he's right and I'm living proof. i was hospitalized for my mental

illness when i was 19. and I've been working the last 30 years to eat

right so as to avoid any more difficulties. i consider it a miracle

that i married and bore a child.

when i started reading Adelle when i was 20 i got really ticked

off. WHY ISN'T THIS ALL COMMON KNOWLEDGE? so many people are sick,

physically and mentally that don't need to be.

well, i got off on some tangent, didn't i!

laura

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:30:58 -0000 " givemeamomenttothink "

<deweyli@...> writes:

> hi robin,

>

> if i lived by myself, i think i would NEVER cook!! i would just

live on

> kefir, yogurt, raw cheese, eggs, butter and fruit!

>

> as far as sugar goes, i was on a web site for 3 years and gradually

> weaned myself off ALL sweeteners. i thought this would be

impossible; i

> have been an intense sugar addict from day one but i knew it was

killing

> me and i had to do something. so for one whole year i consumed no

> sweeteners whatsoever. it was WONDERFUL!! i lost weight. i felt

great.

> i totally lost the desire for sweets. fruit began to taste

absolutely

> incredible to me; so i would always have fruit for dessert and

enjoyed

> every bite.

That's great. So you stayed away from all sweeteners? Even

stevia? We limit our children's sugar intake. We actually set up

a " Wednesday treat " for their Wednesday lunch at school. They were

feeling totally deprived every day when all the other kids would

take out all the junk from their lunch boxes. So, I made an

agreement with them that on Wednesdays I would put a junk food item

into their lunchbox. They are also allowed to have half a can of

soda on Sundays at my parent's house. We go there every Sunday for

a b-b-q and, of course, everyone there is drinking soda. My kids

were feeling totally deprived and left out so we compromised with

half a soda.

I have talked with them about why I don't let them have much junk

food and the importance of eating healthy. They understand and do

really good with what I do feed them at home, but kids still don't

like feeling left out when they are at other places. The Wednesday

and Sunday compromise has helped greatly. They feel content with

those treats. It's such a balancing act with kids. When it comes

to food, they respond to not getting what others are having so

personally, feeling sooo deprived. I guess we do it too. Nobody

likes to feel left out.

Robin

[Guest guest]

Marie,

No, it was not heartburn. It was just painful pressure. I had

it many times and now I avoid honey, maple syrup and dried

dates completely. Sometimes the pain was mild other times

intense. Once I ate a cup of honey (real honey). After ten

minutes or so I thought my chest would explode. I rolled

around in bed for about half an hour.

It would be interesting to find out the reason. I think it

had something to with fructose conversion.

Fredrik

Arena for vegheads and meatheads

vegvsmeat/

" Marie P " <pollard@v...> wrote:

> do you mean heartburn?

> Re: Which sugar is worse?

>

>

> , I'm sure it's individual but the so called healthy

sweeteners:

> honey (ecological) and maple syrup (natural, no additives), both

give

> me pain in the chest. I can get this pain by eating dried dates

> (ecological) as well. I wonder why. Fructose? Swelling of liver?

Do

> you have any ideas?

>

> Fredrik

>

>

[Guest guest]

Fredrick,I'm new on this list, but thought I would reply to your post. I know

exactly what you are saying. I have the same thing happen when I indulge in

sugars. Also, in case, my BP will go sky high. I went to ER one night, but

all they could say is that I was not having a heart attack. So in my case, I

try to avoid all form of sugars and sweeteners. I am now trying stevia, and I

seem to be able to tolerate it. Time will tell. Irene CNo, it was not heartburn. It was

just painful pressure.

_______________________________________________

No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.

Make My Way your home on the Web - http://www.myway.com

[Guest guest]

Busse <laurabusse@j...> wrote:

> I'm worried about him when he goes to college. when i went to

> college, i ended up having a nervous breakdown because i was

> literally like a kid in a candy store at each meal.

, sounds like you're describing what happened to me when I

left home as a teenager. I was totally ignorant. Nobody had ever

taught me anything about diet and health. I ate practically

everything. Sometimes I ate only candies for weeks in a row.

I did that almost ten years!

I didn't have a nervous breakdown though, but I'm sure I

inflicted great damage to my mind and body.

I became aware of the connection between diet and health in the

end of year 2001. January 13 2002 marks a turning point in my

life. That day I decided to avoid all refined carbobydrates, and

soon I avoided all refined foods. I started to follow the

principle of whole foods.

> WHY ISN'T THIS ALL COMMON KNOWLEDGE? so many people are sick,

> physically and mentally that don't need to be.

I think it's cause there are plenty of powerful people in the

world who want to make money on food and who don't give a rats

ass about our health.

Fredrik

Arena for vegheads and meatheads

vegvsmeat/

[Guest guest]

Fredrik,

I'm so glad you were able to overcome your addiction. and i bet you

really feel the difference.

and you're right about the rat's ass part. doesn't that make you REALLY

MAD? (it does me.)

at least Sally et al are trying to make a diff.

laura

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:06:49 -0000 " Fredrik Murman " <fpm@...>

writes:

I became aware of the connection between diet and health in the

end of year 2001. January 13 2002 marks a turning point in my

life. That day I decided to avoid all refined carbobydrates, and

soon I avoided all refined foods. I started to follow the

principle of whole foods.

I think it's cause there are plenty of powerful people in the

world who want to make money on food and who don't give a rats

ass about our health.

Fredrik

[Guest guest]

do you mean heartburn?

Re: Which sugar is worse?

, I'm sure it's individual but the so called healthy sweeteners:

honey (ecological) and maple syrup (natural, no additives), both give

me pain in the chest. I can get this pain by eating dried dates

(ecological) as well. I wonder why. Fructose? Swelling of liver? Do

you have any ideas?

Fredrik

[Guest guest]

Glad to hear there's at least one person in the world who

understood what I was talking about. Thank you for your

reply Irene.

Fredrik

Arena for vegheads and meatheads

vegvsmeat/

No, it was not heartburn. It was just

painful pressure.

[Guest guest]

Hmm...sounds sort of like an indigestion type feeling.

1 cup of honey!!! WOW! That's quite a sweet tooth!

marie

Re: Which sugar is worse?

>

>

> , I'm sure it's individual but the so called healthy

sweeteners:

> honey (ecological) and maple syrup (natural, no additives), both

give

> me pain in the chest. I can get this pain by eating dried dates

> (ecological) as well. I wonder why. Fructose? Swelling of liver?

Do

> you have any ideas?

>

> Fredrik

>

>

[Guest guest]

--- In , " Fredrik Murman " <fpm@t...>

wrote:

> Marie,

>

> No, it was not heartburn. It was just painful pressure. I had

> it many times and now I avoid honey, maple syrup and dried

> dates completely. Sometimes the pain was mild other times

> intense. Once I ate a cup of honey (real honey). After ten

> minutes or so I thought my chest would explode. I rolled

> around in bed for about half an hour.

>

> It would be interesting to find out the reason. I think it

> had something to with fructose conversion.

Umm... why would you eat an entire cup of honey, and why wouldn't you

expect some significant problem to follow this? What happens when

you eat a reasonable amount of it?

Chris

[Guest guest]

> , I'm sure it's individual but the so called healthy sweeteners:

> honey (ecological) and maple syrup (natural, no additives), both give

> me pain in the chest. I can get this pain by eating dried dates

> (ecological) as well. I wonder why. Fructose? Swelling of liver? Do

> you have any ideas?

>

> Fredrik

Fredrik,

Used to get debilatating pains in either the chest, right middle, front and

back and lower right front torso like you describe before cleaning up my

diet to whole foods. Still do to a much lesser degree when I eat too much of

a wrong carb. That includes natural sweeteners that also affect my

hypoglycemia. My theory is its stuck gas and/or toxins. Have eliminated

wheat, barley, rye, oats that caused it as well. Another possibilty on the

sugars is feeding candida, whats left of leaky gut, molds or fungus in the

natural sweeteners. Activated charcoal capsules are good for absorbing the

toxins present with gas.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

" chrismasterjohn " <ChrisMasterjohn@a...> wrote:

> Umm... why would you eat an entire cup of honey,

In the beginning of 2002 I gave up refined carbs and in September

that year I started to avoid grains and dairy. Fruit, especially

dried fruit, became my main source of energy. I also ate honey.

Sometimes I experienced chestpains after consuming it but I

kept on. Honey was tasty and one day I just went overboard and

got my " heart attack " .

> and why wouldn't you expect some significant problem to

> follow this?

I had eaten cups and cups of honey many times before in

my life without any problems. I had eaten it on top of

wheatbread. Perhaps wheat was relevant. Maybe it slowed

down the absorption?

> What happens when you eat a reasonable amount of it?

I think the last time I ate honey was in autumn 2002. I remember

several occasions during which a couple of teaspoons gave me a

slight ache in the chest.

Fredrik

Arena for vegheads and meatheads

vegvsmeat/