Re: Bible and B-12

[Guest guest]

I believe the Bible says pre flood everything was vegetarian (not just people,

all animals too) after the flood God ordained some animals to become carnivorus

and people to eat meat as well. Probably more to it than that, but I'm not as

well versed in the OT (Old Testament) as I'd like. Anyhoo, hope that helped.

(btw, I would question any preacher/dietition who tries to make people eat or

live according to OT practises as we are now in the NT (meaning New Testiment,

but Nourishing Traditions fits too eh. LOL)

Allan Balliett <igg@...> wrote:

Mrs. Siemens

Helpmeet to , mommy to Zachary & Lydia

" For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto

salvation.... "

-Romans 1:16a-

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Hmmmm, sorry if I sounded preachy LOL. Yk, the Bible has a lot of interesting

things to say about diet. In one part the appostle urges his collegue to

stop drinking just water but for the sake of his stomache to drink a little

wine. I figure that makes sence as they wern't obcessed with pasturization ;-)

Siemens <amandasiemens@...> wrote:I believe the Bible says pre flood

everything was vegetarian (not just people, all animals too) after the flood God

ordained some animals to become carnivorus and people to eat meat as well.

Probably more to it than that, but I'm not as well versed in the OT (Old

Testament) as I'd like. Anyhoo, hope that helped. (btw, I would question any

preacher/dietition who tries to make people eat or live according to OT

practises as we are now in the NT (meaning New Testiment, but Nourishing

Traditions fits too eh. LOL)

Mrs. Siemens

Helpmeet to , mommy to Zachary & Lydia

" For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto

salvation.... "

-Romans 1:16a-

---------------------------------

Post your free ad now! Canada Personals

[Guest guest]

>

>My question: Do I have this screwed up or is it true that a healthy

>gut with full bio-life in it should be capable of producing its own

>B12 (via the biota)?

It produces it in the colon, but receptor sites are in the small intestine

so you don't actually absorb any.

OR - in the state of nature, the diet above

>would not be B12 defecient.

It WOULD be b-12 deficient, UNLESS you eat enough insects along with the

produce to avoid b12 deficiency. This is probably why Indian vegans became

b12 deficient when they moved to England where the produce is cleansed of

insects, but they weren't in their native India. Some vegan societies also

engage in corprophagia - eating their own stool, which provides b12.

Yummm...

Bottom line - animal foods are required for b12.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

hi and all,

but even in the OT they ate meat and milk...in Genesis and on up. (land

of milk and honey, slaughtering the fatted calf, etc.)

And Jesus was cooking fish in the NT.

laura

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:37:49 -0400 (EDT) Siemens

<amandasiemens@...> writes:

I believe the Bible says pre flood everything was vegetarian (not just

people, all animals too) after the flood God ordained some animals to

become carnivorus and people to eat meat as well. Probably more to it

than that, but I'm not as well versed in the OT (Old Testament) as I'd

like. Anyhoo, hope that helped. (btw, I would question any

preacher/dietition who tries to make people eat or live according to OT

practises as we are now in the NT (meaning New Testiment, but Nourishing

Traditions fits too eh. LOL)

Allan Balliett <igg@...> wrote:

Mrs. Siemens

Helpmeet to , mommy to Zachary & Lydia

" For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God

unto salvation.... "

-Romans 1:16a-

---------------------------------

Post your free ad now! Canada Personals

[Guest guest]

Suze,

this is THE MOST DISGUSTING thing I've read all day...then again,

hasn't been posting his adventures too often (LOL) lately.

To the original poster--read Chet Day's commentary on the " Hallelujah Diet "

here: http://chetday.com/hallelujahwhathappenedreview.htm

This, like all strict vegan diets, is very dangerous to your health in the

long run. There have even been deaths reported of children kept on these

sorts of " God says " diets. Not my cup of tea...

**********************

Some vegan societies also

> engage in corprophagia - eating their own stool, which provides b12.

> Yummm...

[Guest guest]

And don't forget that the Jewish dietary laws (and there are many...) are

mainly based on passages from Leviticus. Definitely OT and not

vegetarian--just restricted.

--

Re: Bible and B-12

> hi and all,

>

> but even in the OT they ate meat and milk...in Genesis and on up. (land

> of milk and honey, slaughtering the fatted calf, etc.)

>

> And Jesus was cooking fish in the NT.

>

> laura

[Guest guest]

> Re: Bible and B-12

>

>

>Suze,

>

>this is THE MOST DISGUSTING thing I've read all day...then again,

> hasn't been posting his adventures too often (LOL) lately.

Oh I feel so honored! You mean I was able to beat Mike at the most

disgusting post of the day? Truly a feat....wow...I just feel so special ;-)

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

IMO the danger isn't what " God says " it's what someone wants and will twist the

Bible to make support. It doesn't take too much brain power to wrap ones mind

about what God wants us to eat. IE I've never seen a boneless skinless chicken

breast in the wild LOL, most animals I've seen come with fat and organs as well

as meat. And wheat grows WHOLE not stripped apart and sold seperatly (LOL they

should print that! All Purpose Flour: nutrients sold seperatly. LOL) and the

only crystally white stuff I've seen naturally is hail, and it was neither sweet

nor salty :-) I think if we left it to God everyone would be healthy, it's when

we start to eat MAN'S creations (pasturized, demineralized, unnatural garbage)

that we get sick! JM2C.

<jc137@...> wrote: " God says " diets. Not my cup of tea...

Mrs. Siemens

Helpmeet to , mommy to Zachary & Lydia

" For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto

salvation.... "

-Romans 1:16a-

---------------------------------

Post your free ad now! Canada Personals

[Guest guest]

The flood IS in Genisis, chapter 3 I think (don't hold me to that LOL my Bible's

in the car and I have a sleeping baby on my lap) pretty close to the beginning.

So very near from creation we were eating meat. It was only a very brief time,

microscopic in the grand scheme of things, that meat was not consumed. That's

why I find it hard to put any faith in something that is being sold as " God's

way " when the Bible itself shows that it was true for only the first few hundred

years of man's existance (and even those who do not believe in creation will

agree that that timeframe is a drop in the bucket) just doesn't hold water in my

book. In fact after the flood and repeatedly in the New Testimate meat=very good

LOL.

(reaching for the steak sauce LOL)

> hi and all,

>

> but even in the OT they ate meat and milk...in Genesis and on up. (land

> of milk and honey, slaughtering the fatted calf, etc.)

>

> And Jesus was cooking fish in the NT.

>

> laura

Mrs. Siemens

Helpmeet to , mommy to Zachary & Lydia

" For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto

salvation.... "

-Romans 1:16a-

---------------------------------

Post your free ad now! Canada Personals

[Guest guest]

Rabbits do that. But it's some special kind of stool they eat. And

they would die if you kept that from them.

Lots of animals can't digest their food very well and after they ate

it, there is still enough food in the droppings for other animals.

CU Anja

--- In , " " <jc137@n...>

wrote:

> Suze,

> this is THE MOST DISGUSTING thing I've read all day...then again,

hasn't been posting his adventures too often (LOL) lately.

>

>

> **********************

> Some vegan societies also

> > engage in corprophagia - eating their own stool, which provides b12.

> > Yummm...

[Guest guest]

>Hmmmm, sorry if I sounded preachy LOL. Yk, the Bible has a lot of interesting

things to say about diet. In one part the appostle urges his collegue to

stop drinking just water but for the sake of his stomache to drink a little

wine. I figure that makes sence as they wern't obcessed with pasturization ;-)

Wine is considered " good for the stomach " in a lot of cultures, and science

seems to bear this out (even if the water is good). The French drink

wine with meals and their hearts are in better shape (even though they

smoke more too) and they are thinner. What I've found is that

wine really stops the symptoms of gluten intolerance ... it may be

that wheat with olive oil and wine is a lot less harmful than it

would be otherwise. Gliadin is a lectin, and lectins are disabled by

certain sugars .. maybe the saccharides in wine disable it somewhat.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>The flood IS in Genisis, chapter 3 I think (don't hold me to that LOL my

Bible's in the car and I have a sleeping baby on my lap) pretty close to the

beginning. So very near from creation we were eating meat. It was only a very

brief time, microscopic in the grand scheme of things, that meat was not

consumed. That's why I find it hard to put any faith in something that is being

sold as " God's way " when the Bible itself shows that it was true for only the

first few hundred years of man's existance (and even those who do not believe in

creation will agree that that timeframe is a drop in the bucket) just doesn't

hold water in my book. In fact after the flood and repeatedly in the New

Testimate meat=very good LOL.

>

> (reaching for the steak sauce LOL)

Of course, in the Garden of Eden there may have been B12-fruit trees

too, for feeding the vegetarian tigers etc.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

You know that is a very interesting notion. *gears are spinning* after the fall

man was prevented from ever again eating of the Tree of Life and thus never be

able to live physically forever. Perhaps the fruit from the tree of life was in

fact perfectly nutritionally complete! What a cool concept!! And incidently, the

picture of a tiger eating fruit doesn't seem TOO farfetched to me, my friend

used to have a rabbit that liked to eat chicken! LOL

Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@...> wrote:Of course, in the Garden of

Eden there may have been B12-fruit trees

too, for feeding the vegetarian tigers etc.

-- Heidi Jean

Mrs. Siemens

Helpmeet to , mommy to Zachary & Lydia

" For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto

salvation.... "

-Romans 1:16a-

---------------------------------

Post your free ad now! Canada Personals

[Guest guest]

It WOULD be b-12 deficient, UNLESS you eat enough insects along with the

produce to avoid b12 deficiency. This is probably why Indian vegans became

b12 deficient when they moved to England where the produce is cleansed of

insects, but they weren't in their native India.

Bottom line - animal foods are required for b12.

Suze Fisher

Suze,

My thought exactly to following article when I read it earlier this week

even though it doesn't say eat meat. Also foreboding to the amount of B12 in

the meat of modern commerce if these Alzheimer's victims were never

vegetarian. What's your take on turmeric here, India and moving ? Trying to

keep article vegan friendly?

Wanita

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[Guest guest]

>My thought exactly to following article when I read it earlier this week

>even though it doesn't say eat meat. Also foreboding to the amount

>of B12 in

>the meat of modern commerce if these Alzheimer's victims were never

>vegetarian. What's your take on turmeric here, India and moving ? Trying to

>keep article vegan friendly?

I dunno - maybe. I think there's probably stronger evidence for mercury

causing alzheimer's than aluminum, BTW. One person on the amalgam listserve

mentioned that mercury crosses the BBB and causes it to be permeable thus

letting other metals in. There's been some research in this area that I

think makes the aluminum as causal theory outdated. I also read a book by a

guy that cured his alzheimers by removing his amalgams (well, his *teeth*

actually).

Also, ALA happens to chelate mercury from the brain which could explain why

alzheimers victims felt better when taking ALA.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/17/04 1:54:53 PM Central Daylight Time,

Poofig@... writes:

> So, I'll eventually be on

> a crusade to fix that once I've grown in experience (I'm only 25 and

> new to NT).

>

I am new to this list and have been reading all the mannnnny posts and still

don't understand what NT stands for.

Edith

[Guest guest]

I'm a Seventh Day Adventist and most of the people in my church are

some manner of vegetarians, whether vegan or no. I see it as my

church having a big problem with trying to be dietarily transcendant

against the way this world is because they look forward to the time

when there will be no more death (as the bible says of the new world

that will be created after Christ's return) and so they don't want

to eat meat NOW. They don't understand it that way, though, they

just think it is somehow healthy and the right thing to do, but few

really know a lot about nutrition science so they just blindly keep

perpetuating this silly kind of idealism. So, I'll eventually be on

a crusade to fix that once I've grown in experience (I'm only 25 and

new to NT).

~~Carolyn

> The flood IS in Genisis, chapter 3 I think (don't hold me to that

LOL my Bible's in the car and I have a sleeping baby on my lap)

pretty close to the beginning. So very near from creation we were

eating meat. It was only a very brief time, microscopic in the grand

scheme of things, that meat was not consumed. That's why I find it

hard to put any faith in something that is being sold as " God's way "

when the Bible itself shows that it was true for only the first few

hundred years of man's existance (and even those who do not believe

in creation will agree that that timeframe is a drop in the bucket)

just doesn't hold water in my book. In fact after the flood and

repeatedly in the New Testimate meat=very good LOL.

>

> (reaching for the steak sauce LOL)

[Guest guest]

in regards to diet, Nourishing Traditions (Sally's book)

ejohns9525@... wrote:I am new to this list and have been reading all the

mannnnny posts and still

don't understand what NT stands for.

Edith

Mrs. Siemens

Helpmeet to , mommy to Zachary & Lydia

" For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto

salvation.... "

-Romans 1:16a-

---------------------------------

Post your free ad now! Canada Personals

[Guest guest]

The article says:

>Doctors say weâ?Tre at the mercy of this disease.

> That weâ?T

> re helpless. But thatâ?Ts baloney.

And then says...

Did you realize that over half the people

> diagnosed

> with Alzheimerâ?Ts and now in treatment facilities may not really

have the

> disease? A closer look found that, in most cases, their problem was

> actually a

> deficiency in vitamin B12, the nutrient most critical to memory

function

> as well

> as Alzheimerâ?Ts prevention.

If the patients were found to not have alzheimers, then this

*separate* B12 issue doesn't substract from other genetic (etc)

theories. In other words, what about the other 50%?

Chris

[Guest guest]

> I am new to this list and have been reading all the mannnnny posts

and still

> don't understand what NT stands for.

Edith,

In what way do the posts resemble men?

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/18/04 2:18:50 AM Central Daylight Time,

ChrisMasterjohn@... writes:

> >I am new to this list and have been reading all the mannnnny posts

> and still

> >don't understand what NT stands for.

>

> Edith,

>

> In what way do the posts resemble men?

>

> Chris

>

?????

[Guest guest]

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:57:08 -0400

Busse <laurabusse@...> wrote:

> hi and all,

>

> but even in the OT they ate meat and milk...in Genesis and on up. (land

> of milk and honey, slaughtering the fatted calf, etc.)

>

> And Jesus was cooking fish in the NT.

In Genesis 9 after the flood meat became a part of man's diet. Prior to

that meat was not a part of the diet. One could argue that the

preemminent food of the Old Testament was meat, not veggies as the

Hallelujah folks would have you believe. The Old Testament explicitly

teaches that animals were given to man for service *and* food.

Later under the Mosaic covenant the animals that were ritually

designated " unclean " after the flood (though still allowed to be eaten)

were also declared to be off limits in terms of diet. I believe this

took place over a very long period of time, and was part of the

devolution of humanity as a result of the fall (and brought to a head in

the flood), but that is a topic best left for other lists.

Then in the NT we find the dietary restrictions removed. The New

Testament is adamant that the Kingdom of Heaven does not consist of food

and drink but rather life and joy in the Holy Spirit.

So while " biblical " diets can be quite helpful properly understood (not

jerked out in isolation such as the " pre-flood " or " Hallelujah " diet),

are quite traditional and even healing (The Maker's Diet), from a

spiritual perspective, food is a matter of each individual's conscience.

Anyone Christian who comes along and wants to bind others as to the

exact makeup of their diet, saying this is God's way, is flat out wrong.

Jesus cooked fish, ate lamb, drank wine, enjoyed bread (oh no! LOL!!),

warned not to call common what God had made clean (the famous

vision in the book of Acts) - all without consulting the FDA or the USDA

:-)

It may be that one day, post curse, man will return to a diet that can

fully sustain him without animal foods, ala pre-fall. But in the interim

animal foods are most definitely required.

The *New* Ten Commandments

http://tinyurl.com/245sr

" They told just the same,

That just because a tyrant has the might

By force of arms to murder men downright

And burn down house and home and leave all flat

They call the man a captain, just for that.

But since an outlaw with his little band

Cannot bring half such mischief on the land

Or be the cause of so much harm and grief,

He only earns the title of a thief. "

--Geoffrey Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale

[Guest guest]

amen!!!

Anyone Christian who comes along and wants to bind others as to the

exact makeup of their diet, saying this is God's way, is flat out wrong.

[Guest guest]

> In a message dated 6/18/04 2:18:50 AM Central Daylight Time,

> ChrisMasterjohn@a... writes:

>

> > >I am new to this list and have been reading all the mannnnny

posts

> > and still

> > >don't understand what NT stands for.

> >

> > Edith,

> >

> > In what way do the posts resemble men?

> >

> > Chris

> >

>

> ?????

Sorry... just a little humor. Her multiplicity of " n " s in the word

eliminated the distinction between " many " (a large quantity)

and " manny " (like unto a " man. " )

Chris

[Guest guest]

Jesus...

warned not to call common what God had made clean (the famous

vision in the book of Acts) - all without consulting the FDA or the

USDA

:-)

>

> The *New* Ten Commandments

> http://tinyurl.com/245sr

I agree about everything you said in your post, but I wanted to

point out that the text mentioned about is actually not about

eating 'unclean' food but about God instructing and the

disciples to not just keep the gospel message within the Jewish

community but to take it also to the gentiles and 'outcast'

Jews. Biblical visions were given as anecdotal illustrations of

some sort for the purpose of keeping people in communication with

God for the interpretation, etc.

~~Carolyn