Re: kefir questions/maker's diet

[Guest guest]

> my question is, the Maker's Diet guy says only consume goat kefir,

and it

> must be cultured at least 30 (?)hours, at that.

>

> i realize cow's milk is designed to pack a lot of weight onto a

tiny calf

> in order to made him a cow or bull.

>

> can anyone speak to this? is it even possible to lose weight if

you are

> a WAPF member? how necessary is it to switch to goat kefir?

Well, whether or not it affects weight, I don't know. Largely, the

argument for goat's milk is that it is healthier for us. Our bodies

are capable of handling goat's milk better because the protein

molecule is smaller than the protein molecule in cow's milk. Many

people who have a problem with cow's milk do fine with goat's milk.

Our son has definite problems with cow's milk so we are using goat

cheese, and I'm trying to find a good source of fresh raw goat's

milk. I'm hoping that he will do fine with goat dairy products. So

far he seems to be doing fine with the goat cheese. Unfermented,

raw goat's milk may be a different story precisely because it is not

fermented. He may only be able to handle it in a fermented

state...I don't know. It's worth a try. Also, for your

information, fresh, raw goat milk tastes great. I tried it once,

many years ago, and was amazed at the difference between the fresh,

raw milk and the stuff they sell in the store. If you hesitate to

try fresh, raw goat's milk because of your experience with store

bought goat milk, be not afraid any longer and give it a try.

Robin

[Guest guest]

Hi Robin,

thanks for your reply.

I've never tried goat's milk, actually. I've heard it's really foul so

I've made a point to avoid it.

ditto goat cheese.

raw cow's milk is illegal to buy or sell here in NJ. but i wonder about

goat's milk...

I'd really like to try it. a WAPF friend of mine told me the other day

she had goat's milk once that beat any cow's milk. worth looking into.

thanks again, robin.

laura

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:07:13 -0000 " givemeamomenttothink "

<deweyli@...> writes:

> my question is, the Maker's Diet guy says only consume goat kefir,

and it

> must be cultured at least 30 (?)hours, at that.

>

> i realize cow's milk is designed to pack a lot of weight onto a

tiny calf

> in order to made him a cow or bull.

>

> can anyone speak to this? is it even possible to lose weight if

you are

> a WAPF member? how necessary is it to switch to goat kefir?

Well, whether or not it affects weight, I don't know. Largely, the

argument for goat's milk is that it is healthier for us. Our bodies

are capable of handling goat's milk better because the protein

molecule is smaller than the protein molecule in cow's milk. Many

people who have a problem with cow's milk do fine with goat's milk.

Our son has definite problems with cow's milk so we are using goat

cheese, and I'm trying to find a good source of fresh raw goat's

milk. I'm hoping that he will do fine with goat dairy products. So

far he seems to be doing fine with the goat cheese. Unfermented,

raw goat's milk may be a different story precisely because it is not

fermented. He may only be able to handle it in a fermented

state...I don't know. It's worth a try. Also, for your

information, fresh, raw goat milk tastes great. I tried it once,

many years ago, and was amazed at the difference between the fresh,

raw milk and the stuff they sell in the store. If you hesitate to

try fresh, raw goat's milk because of your experience with store

bought goat milk, be not afraid any longer and give it a try.

Robin

[Guest guest]

>can anyone speak to this? is it even possible to lose weight if you are

>a WAPF member? how necessary is it to switch to goat kefir?

>

>and most of all, does this mean i should be culturing my cow's milk kefir

>at least 30 hours? yikes! at room temp, that would be one clumpy, sour

>mess!

I can't speak about the Maker's Diet, I never tried it. I did start gaining

a little weight when I first started NT, but part of that was that my

digestion was healing after too many years of eating gluten. However,

I've lost about 30 lbs using the Warrior Diet technique, which has a lot

of other health benefits besides losing weight (and time benefits, like

not cooking most of the day!). The Warrior Diet is really more of a

lifestyle than a " diet " , but there are few restrictions on what foods

you can eat. I've tweaked the food choices based on what works for ME,

and I'm still tweaking!

Anyway, it's working well for me, mainly because I can eat the stuff

I really like (like hash browns and wine!), and if I splurge I don't just

gain a lot of weight quickly. Once a week or so I make some decadent

dessert and we all indulge. It's the first time in my life I feel I don't

have to worry about weight at all ... I'm getting skinnier and stronger

and healthier and not thinking too much about it. Also I don't have the

horrible hunger pangs I lived with my whole life, or the blood sugar

dips (if I skipped breakfast I used to get a migraine or blow up at

someone, and I really HAD to eat every 3 hours).

You can read about it in www.warriordiet.com, or search the archives.

BTW you can also do it WITH the Maker's Diet ... it's a Biblical concept

too, those Israeli's didn't stop the herds to make a fire and cook

lunch, I'd bet ... the usual pattern was to stop at night, make camp,

and cook a big meal, but any other meals were small.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>>>I've never tried goat's milk, actually. I've heard it's really foul so

I've made a point to avoid it.

ditto goat cheese.

raw cow's milk is illegal to buy or sell here in NJ. but i wonder about

goat's milk...

I'd really like to try it. a WAPF friend of mine told me the other day

she had goat's milk once that beat any cow's milk. worth looking into.<<<

I believe it depends a lot on what the goat eats. I had some a few years ago (in

a cup of tea) at a property we were staying at and didn't realise it wasn't cows

milk until I was told. I've just found a large block of land that I'll be buying

and building on in the next few months and it's big enough to have a couple of

goats, and chooks, and veggies, and ... - YIPPEE!!!

Cheers,

Tas'.

[Guest guest]

Heidi,

thanks very much for writing...very interesting.

i said in other posts how i did radiantrecovery.com for 3 years and lost

some weight and felt great. it's a lot like schwartzbien.

anyway, everyone gains wt. at first then loses that then keeps losing.

the reason for the initial wt. gain is the body is healing from years of

sugar abuse.

so i was wondering if it's the same as WAPF.

will i keep gaining wt. on all this raw dairy? or will i stop gaining

and start losing once the raw dairy starts to heal me? or do i have to

just bit the bullet and go off all grains for awhile? very difficult.

thanks.

laura

p.s. I'm going to check into what this warrior diet is. I'm trying to

understand what it really is by reading your post but i guess I'll have

to check it out.

I did start gaining

a little weight when I first started NT, but part of that was that my

digestion was healing after too many years of eating gluten.

[Guest guest]

> Heidi,

>

> thanks very much for writing...very interesting.

>

> i said in other posts how i did radiantrecovery.com for 3 years and

lost

> some weight and felt great. it's a lot like schwartzbien.

>

> anyway, everyone gains wt. at first then loses that then keeps

losing.

> the reason for the initial wt. gain is the body is healing from

years of

> sugar abuse.

>

> so i was wondering if it's the same as WAPF.

>

> will i keep gaining wt. on all this raw dairy? or will i stop

gaining

> and start losing once the raw dairy starts to heal me? or do i

have to

> just bit the bullet and go off all grains for awhile? very

difficult.

>

> thanks.

>

> laura

>

> p.s. I'm going to check into what this warrior diet is. I'm trying

to

> understand what it really is by reading your post but i guess I'll

have

> to check it out.

>

>

>

> I did start gaining

> a little weight when I first started NT, but part of that was that

my

> digestion was healing after too many years of eating gluten.

>

>

[Guest guest]

***anyway, everyone gains wt. at first then loses that then keeps losing.

the reason for the initial wt. gain is the body is healing from years of

sugar abuse.***

That's not quite correct. Some people (doing RR) do start losing straight away,

some lose after giving up the simple carbs, some need to tweak some more after

they're stable on step 7. The other major reason for putting weight on initially

was because you are adding things in - more browns and protein - before you

start taking things out.

Cheers,

Tas'.

[Guest guest]

Tas,

you're right. i overgeneralized. it just SEEMED to me that everyone was

gaining wt. at first...

i was on the YLD list for awhile, people who needed to lose wt. and wt

gain at first was very common; and so maybe it's MORE common with people

who need to lose wt.

anyway, i guess i never noticed the people who lost without gaining. the

ones who gained probably spoke the loudest; plus, that was my experience,

i gained too...

laura

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:51:28 +1000 " "

<sand8013@...> writes:

***anyway, everyone gains wt. at first then loses that then keeps losing.

the reason for the initial wt. gain is the body is healing from years of

sugar abuse.***

That's not quite correct. Some people (doing RR) do start losing straight

away, some lose after giving up the simple carbs, some need to tweak some

more after they're stable on step 7. The other major reason for putting

weight on initially was because you are adding things in - more browns

and protein - before you start taking things out.

Cheers,

Tas'.

[Guest guest]

>I believe it depends a lot on what the goat eats. I had some a few years ago

(in a cup of tea) at a property we were staying at and didn't realise it wasn't

cows milk until I was told. I've just found a large block of land that I'll be

buying and building on in the next few months and it's big enough to have a

couple of goats, and chooks, and veggies, and ... - YIPPEE!!!

>

>Cheers,

>Tas'.

It also depends if there is a billy goat nearby. I got some from

our neighbor though, to try, and it was fine. That goat got grass

and " Pea hay " to eat. It tasted just like cow milk, but I was

allergic to it just like cow's milk. It probably would have been

ok kefired, but it didn't thicken up like cow milk does for

kefilli, even after I boiled it! However, it wasn't sour like

regular kefir either, so maybe it would be ideal for some folks.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>Heidi,

>

>thanks very much for writing...very interesting.

>

>i said in other posts how i did radiantrecovery.com for 3 years and lost

>some weight and felt great. it's a lot like schwartzbien.

Schwartzbein isn't bad, and I did that for awhile too. Actually just about

ANY diet is better than the average SAD.

>anyway, everyone gains wt. at first then loses that then keeps losing.

>the reason for the initial wt. gain is the body is healing from years of

>sugar abuse.

I never did lose weight on Schwartzbein, until I combined it with the " eat like

a king "

for breakfast approach. But the King/prince/pauper approach, with very little

dinner, is essentially the feast/fast approach, eating in a four hour window (an

8 am

breakfast and 12 lunch makes 4 hours, then eat very little for dinner, esp. no

starches

as the way I heard it!). So that is the WD, only with the eating part early in

the day.

I DID lose weight on that, but I switched to eating at night because I found

that when

I don't eat at night I sleep poorly. Also I don't like cooking first thing in

the day!

>so i was wondering if it's the same as WAPF.

>

>will i keep gaining wt. on all this raw dairy? or will i stop gaining

>and start losing once the raw dairy starts to heal me? or do i have to

>just bit the bullet and go off all grains for awhile? very difficult.

Some people don't react well to dairy. Or they may have to limit the amount.

Everyone is different! And a lot of people don't have to go off all grains ...

could be just avoiding wheat/barley/rye will do it (or even just wheat maybe).

Experiment!

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

:

>Heidi, could i put my two cents worth in here, and see what you think

>of this statement.

Wow, quite a " statement! " . I can't comment on the whole thing, but basically

I agree that there is a link between low levels of HCL, zink, IBS, leaky gut,

etc. There is a chicken/egg connection that science hasn't sorted out yet.

The main part of the cycle that I personally has studies is how IgA gluten

reaction does cause leaky gut, and it also attacks the pancreas, causes

deficiencies

in zinc, calcium, and other nutrients, and probably causes lack of HCL. THAT

part

of the cycle has been well documented, and it seems to have been in

effect for 4,000 years or so, and it is very much genetically linked.

Now, the OTHER half of the cycle: " Would the IgA allergies exist if the

person was eating a great diet? " (and IBS, low zinc levels, low HCL etc). or

" Would IgA allergies develop because of low HCL? " or any of the other

culprits that have put forward ... no one really knows, and it hasn't really

been tested IMO. Most of the people I talk to that have IBS or enzyme

deficiencies etc. ARE in fact IgA intolerant (and are in a group for

such people which is why I hear from them!) and they get better if they

get off their allergens (which is what you suggest also, going on

a gluten and dairy free diet).

>Adelle did not make a link between HCl deficiencies and blood

>type; and Dr. Atkins does not consider blood type when he tailors

>programs to his clients, according to Pescatore, Ph.D., a

>nutritional counselor at the Atkins Center.6 So it is possible that

>most of the people with this problem are all Type As or ABs, the

>types Dr. D'Adamo feels are predisposed to chronic shortfalls of HCl.

>The people with ample HCl may all be Type Os, as Dr. D'Adamo claims.

>Yet the identification of age-related deficiencies coupled with

>reports of failing health suggest a gradual decline of HCl over time.

>If so, HCl deficiency is a preventable and correctable problem,

>regardless of blood type.

What I'd be curious about would be, how many of those lacking in HCL are

also IgA gliadin or casein reactive? Since the IgA antibodies are really, really

good at attacking body tissues (esp. glands, they can cause T1 diabetes and

do so reliably in rats) then THAT could cause the " age related " HCL decline.

I don't buy that HCL levels are necessarily age related, esp. since my own

seem to be better now than they were 20 years ago.

>Less well known is that people with digestive problems tend to suffer

>from shortfalls of pancreatic enzymes, particularly the protein

>digesting protease trypsin. If this is not secreted in sufficient

>quantities, protein molecules are improperly broken down. The greater

>the pancreatic insufficiency, the more undigested and partially

>digested protein molecules that enter the system and the more likely

>an immune system reaction. Indeed a connection between pancreatic

>enzyme insufficiency and multiple food allergies was made back in

>1935.7

Right, but what causes what? The IgG allergies are certainly activated by leaky

gut ... but IgA allergies cause glands to start failing, which would also cause

pancreatic deficiency. Which would cause undigested food etc. just as you say,

which could then trigger allergies.

If soyfoods are

>only eaten occasionally, the pancreas will kick in to produce extra

>trypsin. A constant barrage of soyfoods, however, will cause the

>pancreas to become overworked over time.

Soy foods might overwork the pancreas, but an IgA reaction to soy might also

cause autoimmune antibodies to actively attack the pancreas also.

>The problem colloquially known as " leaky gut " syndrome occurs when

>the mucus membranes of the intestinal tract are damaged and no longer

>provide an effective barrier to pathogenic gut bacteria and macro

>food molecules such as undigested or partially digested large

>proteins.

I agree ... but what damages the mucus membranes? It is known that IgA

antigliadin

antibodies attack the membrane, and destroy it. And they also trigger the

release of zonulin, which makes the gut permeable even if it is NOT damaged.

But bacteria overgrowths (caused by undigested food, which could also

be from lack of ability to digest something like fructose or lactose) can also

damage the gut. Probably eating too many of certain kinds of sugars and

starches too.

>As might be expected, permeability of the intestinal lining

>correlates with numerous disorders, including food and environmental

>allergies; bowel problems such as IBS, Crohn's disease and celiac

>disease; inflammatory joint diseases such as rheumatoid arthritis;

>dermatological diseases such as psoriasis, and many forms of cancer.9

I agree, they all " correlate " but no one really knows what is the " root " .

Personally

if I were to try to simplify the whole mess it would be to say something like

" eat what you are genetically designed for " . Since IgA allergies correlate a LOT

with genes (if you don't have HLA-DQ8 or HLA-DQ2, or one of 2 others, there is

next to no chance you'll react to gliaden with an IgA allergy) and most folks

who have

those genes do seem to react to gliaden, it seems to the simple answer is

to eat what you are designed for. Now figuring out what you are designed for

is not so simple ... ! I wish it were as simple as a blood type issue, but I'd

guess

that at some point in the future they'll have the genes pinned down and

you can get a genetic profile that will help a lot.

Gut problems seem to cause joint problems ... and leaky gut, when it

is triggered with zonulin in rats, seems to cause T1 diabetes even

without changing the diet. And gut problems cause mineral deficiencies ...

and maybe the other way around. Still, I think there is a " root " problem

because the natives prior to " modern civilization " (modern as in beginning

with the Egyptians/Assyrians) didn't have the same problems.

>Though Dr. D'Adamo seems well aware of the differences between food

>allergies (which trigger reactions of IgE antibodies), food

>sensitivities (which trigger delayed reactions by IgA, IgG and IgM

>antibodies) and lectin-related agglutinations, the bottom line is

>that the foods marked most often for avoidance by people of all four

>blood types are the very same ones that are most likely to trigger

>allergic reactions. Nowhere is this more true than of the Type Os,

>who are forbidden wheat, corn, sugar, dairy products and yeast — five

>of the " sinister seven " foods identified by the late Stuart Berger,

>M.D., as the foods most likely to cause allergies and damage the

>immune system. "

Wheat and dairy are the most common IgA triggers, and that is mainly in the

populations

that didn't eat them until modern times (the genes are rare in populations where

they've been eaten a long time). Corn I'm not sure about, there seem to be other

issues with it, but it is a grain and grains are weird, IMO. Yeast is often

grown in

barley, but the IgA reaction to gluten is thought to be based on the protein in

candida, maybe, so there may be a cross-reaction (i.e. the protein sequences

are similar). Sugar triggers the production of yeast and bacteria in a lot of

people

and some people react to those bacteria/yeast with an IgA reaction.

Eggs and soy are also common problems .. eggs I don't quite understand

why they should be an issue, since they have been eaten for a long

time, tho probably they weren't eaten in such quantity.

More likely, such foods cause LESS of a reaction. Types

>A, B, AB, and O, after all, only represent the major blood types.

>More than 400 other blood markers exist, most of which are minor and

>admittedly occur only in limited geographic areas. Even so, the

>myriad markers mean that people have blood configurations that are as

>unique as their fingerprints. Take the lectin theory to its ultimate

>conclusion, and each of us would require a one-of-a-kind custom diet.

>Not four blood types, four diets, but an infinite number. It doesn't

>take an IV league degree to know that this is an unworkable solution.

I'm not sure it is so unworkable ... really the genetic HLA tests are a more

reliable

predictor of food problems. There don't seem to be a huge number of foods

that are really problematic. Most proteins *digest* in the stomach, so they

aren't

around to cause problems. There is one protein in gliadin that is very hard for

most humans to digest, and it is very problematic. Probably ditto for casein.

>Wouldn't it be wiser to clear up the problems that are causing " leaky

>gut " syndrome to begin with? The causes of " leaky gut " are many.

I agree. I tend to think in our society, Occam's razor applies big time

here ... most people are living on a diet that is MOSTLY cereal grains.

In Asia they are living mostly off one cereal grain also, rice, but they

don't seem to be having so many problems from it. Here the diet is

mostly wheat (high gluten wheat), corn, and fructose ... all of which are

really problematic to the gut. And yeah, drugs too!

>Other factors that contribute to leaky gut syndrome include HCl and

>trypsin deficiencies13, alcoholism14 and trauma.15 Aging also plays a

>role. As D. Hollander wrote in Gerontology, " the intestinal barrier

>to the absorption of potentially harmful environmental substances may

>be less efficient in aging animals. " 16

Might be, but chances are all the animals they studied are on a high-grain

diet.

>Less publicized is the importance of diet. As Loren Cordain, Ph.D. —

>a proponent of the hunter/gatherer Paleo-Diet has pointed out —

>cereal grains, legumes, dairy products, yeast-containing foods and

>other products of the agricultural era all contain lectins that bind

>intestinal epithelial cells and change the permeability of those

>cells.17 These are the very foods tagged for elimination in most of

>the four blood type diets!

Yep.

>Dr. D'Adamo guaranteed the phenomenal success of his book when he

>told people of Type O, A and B to " just say `no'' to all commercially-

>made breads, bagels, muffins, flours, cakes, cookies, pastas and

>cereals. Whether made from refined flours or the seemingly healthier

>version of whole grains, these gluten-containing products injure the

>gut. Eliminating them from the diet is the first step in giving the

>injured intestinal lining a chance to rest and recover. In that the

>three blood types O, A and B represent 96 percent of Anerica's white

>population and 93 percent of the black population, it's no wonder

>that so many people have benefited mightily from Dr. D'Adamo's

>diets.18

Yep, but if 96 percent of the people shouldn't eat those foods, why not just

say those foods aren't good for people? Is there ANY group that actually

benefits from a high-gluten diet? (except the folks that sell the stuff).

Most white folks come from Northern Europe, and from stock that didn't

eat wheat much til rather recently. Ditto with blacks. Browns from the Middle

East might be less reactive, but a lot of them DO get celiac.

>Upon completion of these programs — not before — I have found that

>people of all blood types seem able to eat MODEST amounts of nearly

>anything, including wheat and other grain products. The operative

>word, of course, is " modest, " meaning one or two small servings a

>day, not the whopping 6-11 servings of breads and grains currently

>recommended by the U.S.D.A. Food Pyramid.

A lot of people who have been diagnosed as celiac can, eventually,

eat wheat with few symptoms. However, when they are tested, their

IgA levels are UP again and their villi are getting damaged. Which is why

they say " ZERO " gluten ... there is no way to know if you are having

a reaction or not. That IgA stuff is very damaging and increases your

risk of cancer a lot. It also seems to increase the levels of prolactin,

which increases a woman's breast cancer risk a lot (and prostate

cancer in men).

>To maintain ongoing gut health, breads and grains MUST be prepared

>for easy digestion using the soaking, fermenting and cooking

>instructions described in Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon

>(ProMotion, 1995). Better yet, start making gelatin-rich soup broths,

>as per Fallon's recipes.

Fermenting has definitely been shown to decrease the harm that

gliadin can do. And gelatin is great. But doing that to " lessen " the harm

that gliadin causes to those who KNOW they react to it, would be like

eating " some " mercury with an anti-chelator to make it " less " harmful.

If a person is THAT addicted to wheat, I guess it's

better, but really, it's easier to use buckwheat, sorghum,

rice flour etc. I can't think of any food I miss enough in

the " wheat " version to risk it (my non-wheat versions are

really good).

>Scientific studies dating back to the turn of the century suggest

>that gelatin improves the digestion of grains, beans, meat and dairy

>products and that it can normalize cases of hydrochloric acid

>deficiency. In addition, gelatin can soothe, protect and nourish the

>intestinal lining. As h Cohn of the Medical Polyclinic of the

>University of Bonn wrote back in 1905, " Gelatin lines the mucous

>membrane of the intestinal tract and guards against further injurious

>action on the part of the ingesta. " 19

That is a good thought. Lectins also react with some foods to become more

innocuous ... I think red wine and olive oil make wheat much less harmful

(hence the Mediterranean diet ...).

>Follow these simple, old-fashioned rules and those pesky lectins will

>be dismantled in your healthy gut and never cause problems in the

>bloodstream. If so, you'll have the high energy and good health

>needed to mine yet another vein of the blood type controversy — the

>possible link between blood type and personality. Since 1920, it's

>been a hot subject in Japan, where political candidates advertise

>their blood type, where dating services inform prospective partners

>about each other's antigens and where a TV sitcom was entitled " I Am

>Type O. " Even condoms are sold by blood type and come packaged with

>little " success cards " advising which types will make red-blooded

>romantics.

Well, I'm the wrong person to talk to about that. The blood typing makes about

as much sense in terms of dietary choices as, say, a horoscope reading. *Genes*

matter a lot, and the genes do correlate somewhat with blood type, but I think

blood typing is a great book seller.

But yeah, lectins should never make it to the blood in the first place, at

least not the bad ones (some lectins fight cancer, germs, etc. ... your body

produces lectins too).

-- Heidi Gene

[Guest guest]

THE hallmark of radiantrecovery.com is a hearty breakfast with plenty of

protein (a must)....a big enuf breakfast to hold you til lunch, and it

must be consumed within an hour of getting up in the morning. i tell

you, this really WORKS but it takes time to get used to it.

eating a large bf in the morning pretty much prevents any binging at

night or and night eating, period. i used to eat dinner and then nothing

til bed which was UNHEARD of in my life. i was a chronic night

eater/binger, but then i often would starve myself til almost dinner.

then eat the rest of the day.

so i don't actually see how the warrior diet can possible work. i would

think i would gain a ton on it like i did in real life.

laura

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 18:33:50 -0700 Heidi Schuppenhauer

<heidis@...> writes:

I never did lose weight on Schwartzbein, until I combined it with the

" eat like a king "

for breakfast approach.

[Guest guest]

>so i don't actually see how the warrior diet can possible work. i would

>think i would gain a ton on it like i did in real life.

>

>laura

Actually, I thought the same thing so I did it as an experiment.

When someone (, I think) proposed it we all said

" that is ridiculous " but it's an easy enough thing to test.

It worked for some people, and didn't work for other people.

I WAS eating a big breakfast and lunch and little dinner before

that (as you describe) and it did work ... the WD in reverse.

And in some cultures their one big meal is in the middle of the

day. Just the fact the body gets a rest from food is good!

Whether the fasting period is from 1pm to 6am or from 9pm

to 5pm probably isn't the main thing. In the mouse experiments

they feed the mice one day and starve them the next ... some

of the mice lose weight and some don't, but they all live

longer and are more healthy.

I DO binge at night, but the fact I'm not digesting food during

the day makes me more alert and more active, so I'm probably

burning more calories. I also eat mainly Paleo-type foods (produce

and meat) which are good for weight loss in any case. But not

everyone loses weight on this ... some people gained some (tho

they were folks who needed to gain).

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>

> my question is, the Maker's Diet guy says only consume goat kefir>

you're only restricted to goat or sheep dairy for the first phase.

in phase 2 he adds cow dairy. and in phase 3 you can have dairy from

both phases.

HTH

vera