PNP and WAPF

[Guest guest]

Tas',

when i found WAPF a few months ago, my first thought was, Oh! if i could

ONLY get Kathleen and sally together to come up with a way to combine the

two!!! but Kathleen, as you know, is anti-sat. fat. so i guess it

wouldn't work, it would be a marriage made in hell.

Tas', the last 5 years or so, every time i wandered away from PNP i would

ALWAYS come back because i knew how FANTASTIC i felt on PNP. and i would

always drop a few lbs. and it was easy to eat that way. not easy to

shop and cook, but easy to eat.

i think one of the main things that attracted me to WAPF was the notion

of getting off the cooking and food prep merry go round...i HATE to

foodshop and cook and would rather eat pizza than cook either PNP or

WAPF!

so i saw this as an opportunity to cook less and just live on raw dairy

products, but it isn't working for me.

i don't WANT to go back to cooking bf, preparing lunch, and cooking

dinner, but like i said, eating and living this way just isn't working

for me. i KNOW my 3 legged stool is all out of whack, i KNOW it but

there is this stubbornness that lives inside me that just says, eat the

WAPF way, don't shop and cook, and you'll be all right.

but my brain fog and impulsiveness is coming back. not to mention the

anxiety.

i know if i went back to PNP I'd feel better. i know i sound like a

spoiled brat. i just don't want to go back to all that cooking and food

prep and constant shopping. i love my raw kefir, yogurt and cheeses and

just want to eat WAPF.

but i think i may have to accept the fact that I've ruined my system over

decades with sugar and bad fats and i might be allergic to wheat and

dairy, and that my body can't really handle even sourdough wheat and raw

dairy it's so messed up. can't handle them YET. until i do some

metabolic or whatever healing.

i could go back to eggs for breakfast and take it from there. i don't

even want to make a friggin' salad anymore! let alone eat one. and

salads were my mainstay in the summer on PNP. i'm so sick of salads.

thanks for letting me rant.

laura

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 23:29:46 +1000 " "

<sand8013@...> writes:

>>>but i just want to be at peace and get off this whirlwind that is

anxiety ridden in my life: how should i eat? fit for life?

radiantrecovery? Atkins? Schwartzbein? WAPF? warrior's? and it's like

a torment that goes on and on with me changing my mind and my thinking

every half hour. it's making me NUTS!!!! ...I'm just not up the challenge

to experiment. that just seems overwhelming and impossible right now.

right now, i just want to get some peace about this, and put it all in

God's hands, and maybe, i hope, He'll lead me.<<<

OK, back to basics, (grin)

Do you have PNP handy? I'd go and find mine if I didn't have a great need

of sleep (it's 11.30 pm here). What are the symptoms of seratonin and

beta-endorphins being out of whack? I know feeling overwhelmed is a big

one. How about going over the RR steps and checking everything is in

order until you feel a bit more balanced? Then you can work on different

things one at a time - like removing gluten, other grains, dairy, etc.

and make good notes (written or mental) about how each thing affects YOU.

All those different diets work for lots of people and don't work for

plenty of others depending on all sorts of factors. I think this would be

the best way for you to work out what works best for you.

HTH,

Tas'.

[Guest guest]

Why can't you combine the two? Get back to where you feel pretty good with PNP,

then start dropping a few starches and adding a few fats. You can still have

your raw dairy - you might just have to be careful with the amount of fats until

you do get rid of the starches, but make sure you're getting enough protein with

each meal. When you drop 'browns', make sure you add lots of other fibres from

low sugar fruits and veggies. I love to cook and am still waiting for NT to come

from the library, but I'm sure others will have plenty of easy NT meal ideas you

can just throw together. I'm sure you'll feel a lot better about the whole

shebang once you are feeling more in control.

Cheers,

Tas'.

PNP and WAPF

Tas',

when i found WAPF a few months ago, my first thought was, Oh! if i could

ONLY get Kathleen and sally together to come up with a way to combine the

two!!! but Kathleen, as you know, is anti-sat. fat. so i guess it

wouldn't work, it would be a marriage made in hell.

Tas', the last 5 years or so, every time i wandered away from PNP i would

ALWAYS come back because i knew how FANTASTIC i felt on PNP. and i would

always drop a few lbs. and it was easy to eat that way. not easy to

shop and cook, but easy to eat.

i think one of the main things that attracted me to WAPF was the notion

of getting off the cooking and food prep merry go round...i HATE to

foodshop and cook and would rather eat pizza than cook either PNP or

WAPF!

so i saw this as an opportunity to cook less and just live on raw dairy

products, but it isn't working for me.

i don't WANT to go back to cooking bf, preparing lunch, and cooking

dinner, but like i said, eating and living this way just isn't working

for me. i KNOW my 3 legged stool is all out of whack, i KNOW it but

there is this stubbornness that lives inside me that just says, eat the

WAPF way, don't shop and cook, and you'll be all right.

but my brain fog and impulsiveness is coming back. not to mention the

anxiety.

i know if i went back to PNP I'd feel better. i know i sound like a

spoiled brat. i just don't want to go back to all that cooking and food

prep and constant shopping. i love my raw kefir, yogurt and cheeses and

just want to eat WAPF.

but i think i may have to accept the fact that I've ruined my system over

decades with sugar and bad fats and i might be allergic to wheat and

dairy, and that my body can't really handle even sourdough wheat and raw

dairy it's so messed up. can't handle them YET. until i do some

metabolic or whatever healing.

i could go back to eggs for breakfast and take it from there. i don't

even want to make a friggin' salad anymore! let alone eat one. and

salads were my mainstay in the summer on PNP. i'm so sick of salads.

thanks for letting me rant.

laura

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 23:29:46 +1000 " "

<sand8013@...> writes:

>>>but i just want to be at peace and get off this whirlwind that is

anxiety ridden in my life: how should i eat? fit for life?

radiantrecovery? Atkins? Schwartzbein? WAPF? warrior's? and it's like

a torment that goes on and on with me changing my mind and my thinking

every half hour. it's making me NUTS!!!! ...I'm just not up the challenge

to experiment. that just seems overwhelming and impossible right now.

right now, i just want to get some peace about this, and put it all in

God's hands, and maybe, i hope, He'll lead me.<<<

OK, back to basics, (grin)

Do you have PNP handy? I'd go and find mine if I didn't have a great need

of sleep (it's 11.30 pm here). What are the symptoms of seratonin and

beta-endorphins being out of whack? I know feeling overwhelmed is a big

one. How about going over the RR steps and checking everything is in

order until you feel a bit more balanced? Then you can work on different

things one at a time - like removing gluten, other grains, dairy, etc.

and make good notes (written or mental) about how each thing affects YOU.

All those different diets work for lots of people and don't work for

plenty of others depending on all sorts of factors. I think this would be

the best way for you to work out what works best for you.

HTH,

Tas'.

[Guest guest]

>>>when i found WAPF a few months ago, my first thought was, Oh! if i could

ONLY get Kathleen and sally together to come up with a way to combine the two!!!

but Kathleen, as you know, is anti-sat. fat. so i guess it wouldn't work, it

would be a marriage made in hell.<<<

Let's make it work. How do you like this idea - I'll keep you focussed on the

major principles of Kathleen's program - staying away from sugars/whites, having

enough protein and fibre, keeping good notes (mental if not written) on how

things affect you and keeping your 3 legged stool balanced, etc., and everyone

else around here can keep you on the NT track with whole produce, fermented

foods, fats, etc.

Cheers,

Tas'.

[Guest guest]

hi Tas',

sounds like a plan. I'm going to feel my way thru this.

since i can't tolerate raw milk (yet; i understand i may have to give up

wheat first.) i consume pretty much only raw kefir and yogurt. so i

think i should concentrate on the PNP way of eating but using the kefir

and yogurt as carbs.

thanks Tas'.

laura

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 09:01:08 +1000 " "

<sand8013@...> writes:

Why can't you combine the two? Get back to where you feel pretty good

with PNP, then start dropping a few starches and adding a few fats. You

can still have your raw dairy - you might just have to be careful with

the amount of fats until you do get rid of the starches, but make sure

you're getting enough protein with each meal. When you drop 'browns',

make sure you add lots of other fibres from low sugar fruits and veggies.

I love to cook and am still waiting for NT to come from the library, but

I'm sure others will have plenty of easy NT meal ideas you can just throw

together. I'm sure you'll feel a lot better about the whole shebang once

you are feeling more in control.

Cheers,

Tas'.

[Guest guest]

Tas', you're too good for me!

thanks for you help.

I'm still feeling a little stubborn. but i think I'll do my own 7 step

program. the first step is adding eggs back into breakfast. maybe

making sure i have bf meat every day (bacon, ham, sausage).

so I'll just focus on that for now. I'll have eggs with my kefir in the

morning.

Tas', is there not enough protein in the kefir and yogurt? i consume a

LOT of it!

thanks again.

p.s. after i read the Untold story of milk, my goal in life is to use

dairy instead of veggies!! since i can't stand them anyway. that was

the WORST PART of PNP, those effing veggies.

can i rationalize now? my ancestors were from northern England and

Germany. throw in some Ireland and probably Scotland. do these people

eat lots of veggies? NO!!!

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 09:22:47 +1000 " "

<sand8013@...> writes:

>>>when i found WAPF a few months ago, my first thought was, Oh! if i

could ONLY get Kathleen and sally together to come up with a way to

combine the two!!! but Kathleen, as you know, is anti-sat. fat. so i

guess it wouldn't work, it would be a marriage made in hell.<<<

Let's make it work. How do you like this idea - I'll keep you focussed on

the major principles of Kathleen's program - staying away from

sugars/whites, having enough protein and fibre, keeping good notes

(mental if not written) on how things affect you and keeping your 3

legged stool balanced, etc., and everyone else around here can keep you

on the NT track with whole produce, fermented foods, fats, etc.

Cheers,

Tas'.

[Guest guest]

<<<Tas', is there not enough protein in the kefir and yogurt? i consume a

LOT of it!>>>

My container of bought yoghurt says 6.2g of protein/100g so work out 6.2% of how

much you have. What was that formula? 1/2 your weight in pounds is the number of

grams of protein you need per day wasn't it? Max. 125/day.

<<<my ancestors were from northern England and Germany. throw in some Ireland

and probably Scotland.>>>

Sounds like me - maybe that's why we get on so well :-)

Cheers,

Tas'.

[Guest guest]

but Tas', with containers of store bought yogurt, don't they add dry milk

to make it thicker and creamier? my farm made raw yogurt is VERY light.

some call it watery. i don't. it's like a light custard; heavenly.

so I'm wondering if your protein figure might be slightly higher than the

'homemade' or farm made type.

what's the volume of 100g? any idea? any idea how many g in a cup, a

pint or a quart?

thanks

laura

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 16:46:07 +1000 " "

<sand8013@...> writes:

<<<Tas', is there not enough protein in the kefir and yogurt? i consume

a

LOT of it!>>>

My container of bought yoghurt says 6.2g of protein/100g so work out 6.2%

of how much you have. What was that formula? 1/2 your weight in pounds is

the number of grams of protein you need per day wasn't it? Max. 125/day.

[Guest guest]

>>>what's the volume of 100g? any idea? any idea how many g in a cup, a

pint or a quart?<<<

3.5 ounces!!!

Cheers,

Tas'.

[Guest guest]

so, what was that Tas'?

6 g carb in 3.5 oz. yogurt?

if that's right, then I'm consuming a LOT of carbs with all my kefir and

yogurt.

no wonder I've been putting on wt. and feeling whacked out..

those carbs are lactose, a SUGAR and i can't handle sugar anymore.

that's why I'm off it.

laura

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 11:17:41 +1000 " "

<sand8013@...> writes:

>>>what's the volume of 100g? any idea? any idea how many g in a cup, a

pint or a quart?<<<

3.5 ounces!!!

Cheers,

Tas'.

[Guest guest]

Errrmmm - that was protein :-)

Re: PNP and WAPF

so, what was that Tas'?

6 g carb in 3.5 oz. yogurt?

if that's right, then I'm consuming a LOT of carbs with all my kefir and

yogurt.

no wonder I've been putting on wt. and feeling whacked out..

those carbs are lactose, a SUGAR and i can't handle sugar anymore.

that's why I'm off it.

laura

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 11:17:41 +1000 " "

<sand8013@...> writes:

>>>what's the volume of 100g? any idea? any idea how many g in a cup, a

pint or a quart?<<<

3.5 ounces!!!

Cheers,

Tas'.

[Guest guest]

sorry Tas'.

you're right. it was the first post i wrote immediately after i got up

but before the coffee was done brewing. :-)

but then again my mind doesn't seem so sharp lately.

i guess we're both sitting here at the computer; me in the morning, you

at night.

so. if i consume a quart of yogurt or kefir at one meal, that's 32 oz.

that sounds like PLENTY of protein consumed...

i guess the problem is STILL the carbs, tho.

if 100 g of yogurt has 6 g. protein, how much carbs/sugars are there?

i guess i can look at a carton of plain yogurt the next time i go to the

grocery store.

i hate to make you get up and look. (or do i?)

thanks a bunch.

laura

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 22:07:44 +1000 " "

<sand8013@...> writes:

Errrmmm - that was protein :-)

[Guest guest]

Well - if you insist ...

It says: Total carbs 7.4g, sugars 5.6

Happy now???

Re: PNP and WAPF

sorry Tas'.

you're right. it was the first post i wrote immediately after i got up

but before the coffee was done brewing. :-)

but then again my mind doesn't seem so sharp lately.

i guess we're both sitting here at the computer; me in the morning, you

at night.

so. if i consume a quart of yogurt or kefir at one meal, that's 32 oz.

that sounds like PLENTY of protein consumed...

i guess the problem is STILL the carbs, tho.

if 100 g of yogurt has 6 g. protein, how much carbs/sugars are there?

i guess i can look at a carton of plain yogurt the next time i go to the

grocery store.

i hate to make you get up and look. (or do i?)

thanks a bunch.

laura

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 22:07:44 +1000 " "

<sand8013@...> writes:

Errrmmm - that was protein :-)

[Guest guest]

wow, Tas'! that means I'm consuming even WAY more carbs/sugars than

protein!! i had no idea.

no wonder I'm so whacked out and putting on weight!

so now i have to deal with the fact that i HAVE TO go back to PNP eating

and prepare food for all 3 meals.

bf has always been a no brainer but lunch was always challenge.. but i

got used to it. but i still didn't like it.

now i have to get back off my gleeful 'i don't have to cook so much

anymore!' merry go round.

yikes. this is disturbing stuff. i had no idea. can you tell I'm in

shock.

gotta deal with this. don't want to. gotta deal with this.

either that or I'll keep gaining wt and my now mush brain will just keep

getting mushier.

thanks so much, Tas''. you've helped me a lot.

laura

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 22:31:56 +1000 " "

<sand8013@...> writes:

Well - if you insist ...

It says: Total carbs 7.4g, sugars 5.6

Happy now???

Re: PNP and WAPF

sorry Tas'.

you're right. it was the first post i wrote immediately after i got up

but before the coffee was done brewing. :-)

but then again my mind doesn't seem so sharp lately.

i guess we're both sitting here at the computer; me in the morning, you

at night.

so. if i consume a quart of yogurt or kefir at one meal, that's 32 oz.

that sounds like PLENTY of protein consumed...

i guess the problem is STILL the carbs, tho.

if 100 g of yogurt has 6 g. protein, how much carbs/sugars are there?

i guess i can look at a carton of plain yogurt the next time i go to

the

grocery store.

i hate to make you get up and look. (or do i?)

thanks a bunch.

laura

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 22:07:44 +1000 " "

<sand8013@...> writes:

Errrmmm - that was protein :-)

[Guest guest]

Tas'',

you've got me going now.

i think if i could figure out a really good way to combine PNP with WAPF,

i could write a book.

but then, maybe I'm making it harder for myself than it really is.

after all, I've been focusing so much on dairy since WAPF.

but i LOVE raw ground beef.

so, instead of guzzling a quart of kefir for lunch, why not down a huge

portion of steak tartar?

i could have my kefir for 'dessert' and use it as a carb, as a 'brown' as

Dr. KD would say.

so here's my tentative plan.

i go back to having my usual 5 (now WAPF) eggs for bf w/ or w/out bf

meats. followed by a glass or so (maybe more) of raw kefir

then for lunch, a big portion of grass-fed raw beef, steak tartare or

whatever. followed by a large or whatever helping of WAPF raw yogurt.

then it's dinner as usual. i have to cook dinner so my dh will have

something he can eat. plus the 13 year old of course.

what do you think? sounds like a plan?

gotta cut back down on the carbs. i thought i could live on kefir and

yogurt, and while the protein amt is sufficient I'm whacking out my body

and mind (they're one anyway) with all those carbs and sugars I'm not

used to anymore.

thanks so much Tas'!! you've REALLY helped and inspired me!

I'll solve this problem yet.

gratefully yours,

ps.. it is SO good to have support from a pnp'er again. i still get the

forum digest but i never read it anymore. maybe it's time to go back to

it...but then i don't want to upset her apple cart with WAPF so I'll have

to watch the posting.

i feel renewed!

[Guest guest]

>>>It says: Total carbs 7.4g, sugars 5.6<<<

BTW that's plain, unflavoured, unsweetened yoghurt.

Cheers,

Tas'.

[Guest guest]

and i have another idea, Tas'.

i started mixing cream into my kefir to help ameliorate the high acidity.

it tasted better. but i stopped cuz I'm still in 'sat fat causes wt

gain' mentality.

so maybe I'll just get even more cream and add it to my kefir. that

means I'll be getting less carbs from my kefir and more fat.

what will happen if i mix the extra cream into the milk before i make the

kefir? maybe I'll try it to find out.

thanks again for everything, Tas'. i treasure your friendship, PNP

experience, and support. :-)

laura

On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 23:34:53 +1000 " "

<sand8013@...> writes:

>>>It says: Total carbs 7.4g, sugars 5.6<<<

BTW that's plain, unflavoured, unsweetened yoghurt.

Cheers,

Tas'.

[Guest guest]

>>>so, instead of guzzling a quart of kefir for lunch, why not down a huge

portion of steak tartar?

i could have my kefir for 'dessert' and use it as a carb, as a 'brown' as

Dr. KD would say.<<<

But to be a 'brown' it needs fibre.

>>>so here's my tentative plan.

i go back to having my usual 5 (now WAPF) eggs for bf w/ or w/out bf

meats. followed by a glass or so (maybe more) of raw kefir<<<

I have eggs, about 1/2 c yoghurt and about 1/2 c blueberries (fibre,

antioxidants, etc.) for breakfast.

>>>then for lunch, a big portion of grass-fed raw beef, steak tartare or

whatever. followed by a large or whatever helping of WAPF raw yogurt.<<<

How about some salad with that?

>>>then it's dinner as usual. i have to cook dinner so my dh will have

something he can eat. plus the 13 year old of course.<<<

I normally have some sort of meat and cooked veggies for dinner.

>>>what do you think? sounds like a plan?<<<

gotta cut back down on the carbs. i thought i could live on kefir and

yogurt, and while the protein amt is sufficient I'm whacking out my body

and mind (they're one anyway) with all those carbs and sugars I'm not

used to anymore.<<<

I think you need some carbs from low sugar, high fibre fruit and veggies (I

know, I know). If you could add some fruit with breakfast and a salad with

lunch, you'd be doing well. See how you go with the amount of kefir/yoghurt.

Cheers,

Tas'.