Re: possible explanation for SFA/ill health correlations

[Guest guest]

>Since

>cooking not only destroys important nutrients but also causes the devleopment

>of carcinogens, it seems reasonable that in a society where most people eat

>overcooked (by our standards) meat as a norm, that you'd find correlations

>between meat and ill health.

>

>Chris

I totally agree! Actually around here most of the " real beef " that gets

cooked seems to be BBQ'd. Over coals. So that makes for multiple

problems ... the coals release chemicals (you can taste them), the hot

fat hits the hot coals and creates carcinogens, AND the meat is

overcooked.

Of course a lot of the other beef is from old dairy cows, and cooked

in fast food joints, so who knows what is going on with it.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Along those lines... DH doesn't grill, and I frankly do not like the

taste of it. The only kind I have ever remotely liked was the REAL

BBQ that you seem to find only in Southern states.

But I do have a Foreman grill that I got for Christmas 2

years ago from my in-laws. Is it a bad idea to cook on that too

since the meat directly touches the heating elements of the grill?

I hate to admit it, but I'm lazy and it's the quickest way to eat a

rare steak or burger!

> fat hits the hot coals and creates carcinogens, AND the meat is

> overcooked.

[Guest guest]

well, aren't those foreman grills teflon-coated? so, if so, i'd say yeah,

they're bad.

-katja

At 10:57 AM 6/24/2004, you wrote:

>Along those lines... DH doesn't grill, and I frankly do not like the

>taste of it. The only kind I have ever remotely liked was the REAL

>BBQ that you seem to find only in Southern states.

>

>But I do have a Foreman grill that I got for Christmas 2

>years ago from my in-laws. Is it a bad idea to cook on that too

>since the meat directly touches the heating elements of the grill?

>I hate to admit it, but I'm lazy and it's the quickest way to eat a

>rare steak or burger!

>

>

>

> > fat hits the hot coals and creates carcinogens, AND the meat is

> > overcooked.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Here's one I don't remember discussing... what about how the

> meat is COOKED.

[snip]

> Since cooking not only destroys important nutrients but also

> causes the devleopment of carcinogens, it seems reasonable

> that in a society where most people eat overcooked (by our

> standards) meat as a norm, that you'd find correlations

> between meat and ill health.

For that very reason, I buy only steak cuts that are edible when

served rare. But, what about the tougher, flavorful cuts that lend

themselves to long, slow cooking in liquid? Does overcooked meat,

when slowly cooked in liquid, have the same amount of carcinogens as

dry cooked, well done meat cooked at high temperature?

[Guest guest]

> Of course a lot of the other beef is from old dairy cows, and cooked

> in fast food joints, so who knows what is going on with it.

And served within a bun! ;-)

Chris

[Guest guest]

> Along those lines... DH doesn't grill, and I frankly do not like

the

> taste of it. The only kind I have ever remotely liked was the REAL

> BBQ that you seem to find only in Southern states.

>

> But I do have a Foreman grill that I got for Christmas 2

> years ago from my in-laws. Is it a bad idea to cook on that too

> since the meat directly touches the heating elements of the grill?

> I hate to admit it, but I'm lazy and it's the quickest way to eat a

> rare steak or burger!

100% of the meat does in a pan, so I think you're all set. The

problem with the BBQ is the fat in the fire. GF grills don't get so

hot as an open flame, and in any case the fat gets drained right out.

Chris

[Guest guest]

> I don't think so ... water never gets above 220 degrees or so,

How do we know at what temperature carcinogens form?

> and the long slow cooking releases gelatin and other nice

> stuff.

Right, but if you didn't " release " it, it would be in the meat, so

you get the gelatin either way.

> Besides, long slow cooking is the whole basis of all those

> nice bone broths!

That's a benefit for the nutrition from the bone, but it might be

better to eat most of your meat rare, and primarily eat bone-stuff

from stocks.

Chris

[Guest guest]

> >> and the long slow cooking releases gelatin and other nice

> >> stuff.

> >

> >Right, but if you didn't " release " it, it would be in the meat, so

> >you get the gelatin either way.

>

> Would you? There is so much history about bone broth and gelatin and

> digestion, it seems that it acts differently when it is in soup

form.

> Though I can't say I've compared it to raw cow hooves and cartilage

> in my own life.

That doesn't seem possible, but in any case, the advantage of bone

broths and gelatin comes from bones, and I wasn't suggesting bones be

eaten rare, but meat rather.

> Might be. Might depend on the cut. I just made a batch of oxtail

soup, which

> makes me biased! I don't think you can eat oxtails rare, they are

too tough.

> But if you cook them a long time they sort of fall apart and make

the BEST

> soup! And one bowl just filled me up. It wasn't just bone, it's the

cartilage

> that sort of dissolves.

I wouldn't want to " eat " cartilage. It's very difficult to chew, and

I think it would be impossible to eat the amount in a " serving " of ox

tail.

Chris

[Guest guest]

Chris-

>I've been waitering recently, and I notice that a LOT of people eat their

>meat well done, and most people eat it medium or higher.

When you say a lot, do you have any sense of the percentage? I'm just

curious, but I have noticed that people often act very surprised when I ask

for my steak/burger/whatever to be very rare (not that I eat out much at

all anyway).

-

[Guest guest]

--- In , Idol <Idol@c...>

wrote:

> Chris-

>

> >I've been waitering recently, and I notice that a LOT of people

eat their

> >meat well done, and most people eat it medium or higher.

>

> When you say a lot, do you have any sense of the percentage? I'm

just

> curious, but I have noticed that people often act very surprised

when I ask

> for my steak/burger/whatever to be very rare (not that I eat out

much at

> all anyway).

I would say that for ground beef, most people request it medium well

or higher. However, we get a rare request here and there, since we

are the only restaurant in MA that will cook a burger under " hockey

puck. "

We mostly sell prime rib though. Maybe at some point I'll keep

track, if I have the time, for a couple days and give real

percentages. Might be hard though, just cause it gets real busy

sometimes. Until then, I'd say that med rare is pretty common,

though rare is very rare (a rare request I mean), medium is most

common, and med well is pretty common. Well is pretty rare. So it's

probably something like medium 50%, med well/med rare 20% each,

rare/well 5% each.

However, a couple things to consider are that prime rib is generally,

I think, eaten rarer than other cuts of meat, and that even med rare

is overcooked, to me. I got lucky that the first time I ordered a

sirloin steak there, they asked me how rare I wanted it and I told

them very rare and just warm in the middle. Then most of them knew

how I liked it, but recently I ordered one " rare " and someone else

cooked it, and it seemed to be cooked at least two or three times

what I'd wanted it cooked. When I thought, previously, that I was

eating a " rare " steak, everyone who walked by was making strange

faces and asking me what was wrong with me, whether my steak was

cooked, still alive, whether it was safe, even from people who

claimed to like steak RARE ( " but not like *that* " ).

So, in conclusion, even med rare is probably " overcooked " by our

standards.

Chris

[Guest guest]

> > Chris-

> >

> > >I've been waitering recently, and I notice that a LOT of people

> eat their

> > >meat well done, and most people eat it medium or higher.

> >

> > When you say a lot, do you have any sense of the percentage?

I'm

> just

> > curious, but I have noticed that people often act very surprised

> when I ask

> > for my steak/burger/whatever to be very rare (not that I eat out

> much at

> > all anyway).

>

> I would say that for ground beef, most people request it medium

well

> or higher. However, we get a rare request here and there, since

we

> are the only restaurant in MA that will cook a burger

under " hockey

> puck. "

>

> We mostly sell prime rib though. Maybe at some point I'll keep

> track, if I have the time, for a couple days and give real

> percentages. Might be hard though, just cause it gets real busy

> sometimes. Until then, I'd say that med rare is pretty common,

> though rare is very rare (a rare request I mean), medium is most

> common, and med well is pretty common. Well is pretty rare. So

it's

> probably something like medium 50%, med well/med rare 20% each,

> rare/well 5% each.

>

> However, a couple things to consider are that prime rib is

generally,

> I think, eaten rarer than other cuts of meat, and that even med

rare

> is overcooked, to me. I got lucky that the first time I ordered a

> sirloin steak there, they asked me how rare I wanted it and I told

> them very rare and just warm in the middle. Then most of them

knew

> how I liked it, but recently I ordered one " rare " and someone else

> cooked it, and it seemed to be cooked at least two or three times

> what I'd wanted it cooked. When I thought, previously, that I was

> eating a " rare " steak, everyone who walked by was making strange

> faces and asking me what was wrong with me, whether my steak was

> cooked, still alive, whether it was safe, even from people who

> claimed to like steak RARE ( " but not like *that* " ).

>

> So, in conclusion, even med rare is probably " overcooked " by our

> standards.

>

> Chris

That was my experience too when I waited tables. Lots of mediums to

well dones, almost never med-rare, much less rare. I happen to like

mine practically mooing still and always have. I frequently run

into having my med-rare steaks cooked medium to med-well. I tend to

annoy the kitchen when I send it back and tell them it's

overcooked. Means they have to start with a new steak instead of

tossing it back on the grill for more time.