Re: Sex, was spring 2004 wise traditions mag

[Guest guest]

LOL--this reminded me of a dear (albeit older) friend who, in the late 60s,

lived in a commune--and I mean commune with a capital C (they had communal

clothes closets and collectively shared responsibility for taking care of

children, e.g.) One major goal was to " smash monogamy " by sharing beds

indiscriminately--she now laughs about it and says this was the tenant that

got them into the most trouble!!!

As a newly married lady, I too am a BIG fan of monogamy. That's not to say

that it's easy or instinctual, though.

Sex, was spring 2004 wise traditions mag

(I'm all in

> favor of monagomy, BTW, as I think most women are when it comes down

> to it).

[Guest guest]

anyone know what a good aphrodisiac is? I know of one... eating

oranges and avocado together. the method is tried and true.

kathryn

[Guest guest]

Heidi,

thanks for your very interesting 2 cents. i learned something.

thanks.

laura

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 11:00:30 -0700 Heidi Schuppenhauer

<heidis@...> writes:

And those poor middle and upper class women got syphilus from their

spouses. There was even an ad for some arsenic(?) laced candy so

you could treat your spouse for syphilus without them knowing you

gave it to them. STD's were probably worse in those days than now.

[Guest guest]

Heidi,

good point! but i think there's a diff. between discussing sex and going

to the bathroom for health reasons, and watching people on TV seeming to

be obsessed with sex and going from one partner to the next. even in the

context of relationships.

sex is a part of life. so is going to the bathroom!

again, it comes back to appropriate boundaries. doncha think?

laura

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 11:57:34 -0700 Heidi Schuppenhauer

<heidis@...> writes:

Hee hee. How long have you been on this list? I would dare say

we talk a lot about going to the bathroom! Including such details

as the size and shape and smell of stools.

(

[Guest guest]

> As a newly married lady, I too am a BIG fan of monogamy. That's

not to say

> that it's easy or instinctual, though.

i like monogamy too! but it seems like nature might be against it?

i've read, from a reasonably reliable source (but never researched

it - maybe someone here would know) that if a woman in a monogamous

relationship has sex with another man and her mate, in the same time

frame, that her cervix is somehow partial to letting in the sperm of

the new guy and blocking the sperm of her mate. if that's true it

would seem to indicate that our bodies have some innate knowledge of

biological selection, probably for diversity in gene stock?

vera

[Guest guest]

>anyone know what a good aphrodisiac is? I know of one... eating

>oranges and avocado together. the method is tried and true.

>

>kathryn

Suze posted an interesting one awhile back.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>LOL--this reminded me of a dear (albeit older) friend who, in the late 60s,

>lived in a commune--and I mean commune with a capital C (they had communal

>clothes closets and collectively shared responsibility for taking care of

>children, e.g.) One major goal was to " smash monogamy " by sharing beds

>indiscriminately--she now laughs about it and says this was the tenant that

>got them into the most trouble!!!

Actually, even the Joy of Sex authors recanted on that one ...

they said that after trying it, couples had all kinds

of problems with jealousy etc. and they came to the

conclusion that humans just do better as pairs. Tho

actually I think the historical norm was one male and as

many females as he could afford. (as per the Old Testament

and the Mormons even!). Actually I wouldn't mind another

wife or two to help with the house and kids.

--Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

heidi, i would LOVE to have another wife around!!

(but not in the bedroom!)

maybe that means i just really want a slave!

Actually I wouldn't mind another

wife or two to help with the house and kids.

--Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

> And those poor middle and upper class women got syphilus from their

> spouses. There was even an ad for some arsenic(?) laced candy so

> you could treat your spouse for syphilus without them knowing you

> gave it to them. STD's were probably worse in those days than now.

Arsenic was considered an all-purpose substance in n England

that had literally dozens of uses. It was commonly used to color

things green, for example, such as wallpaper and pastries. The

pastries were given " body " with lead, and frequently killed people

and animals. Some lawsuits were waged on the matter. A collapsed

nose was a frequent problem caused by inhaling arsenic dust.

Chris

[Guest guest]

> Hee hee. How long have you been on this list? I would dare say

> we talk a lot about going to the bathroom! Including such details

> as the size and shape and smell of stools.

If there's anything that you MUST speak about on this nutrition list,

it's sex, religion, and politics. ...And pooping.

Chris

[Guest guest]

> anyone know what a good aphrodisiac is? I know of one... eating

> oranges and avocado together. the method is tried and true.

Licking creamy effervescent kefir off one another? LOL...

Chris

[Guest guest]

> Actually, even the Joy of Sex authors recanted on that one ...

> they said that after trying it, couples had all kinds

> of problems with jealousy etc. and they came to the

> conclusion that humans just do better as pairs. Tho

> actually I think the historical norm was one male and as

> many females as he could afford. (as per the Old Testament

> and the Mormons even!). Actually I wouldn't mind another

> wife or two to help with the house and kids.

>

> --Heidi Jean

kwym, heidi jean. it almost sounds idyllic. it mightbe like livign

with sisters and it seems it would be wonderful to share the workload

and have such closeness and cooperation. but i'd venture to say that

unless you're raised with that as a norm it would be very hard to

make it work.

how many examples can anyone point to of healthy, well-adjusted non-

monogamous couples? i don't know any but i have heard several sad

stories including a woman friend of mine andher husband. they

considered themselves polyamorous and actively sought that

lifestyle. one of the women they hooked up with reached a point she

didn't want to share the man anymore and he left his wife and 2 young

children. astonishingly, my friend is still pro-polyamory! i'm

astonished because if it happened to me i'm pretty sure my attitude

would be " once burned shame on you, twice burned shame on me " .

vera

[Guest guest]

> how many examples can anyone point to of healthy, well-adjusted non-

> monogamous couples? i don't know any but i have heard several sad

> stories including a woman friend of mine andher husband.

All kinds of folks have marital problems. It can happen to anyone.

Lynn S.

------

Lynn Siprelle * web developer, writer, mama, fiber junky

http://www.siprelle.com/

http://www.thenewhomemaker.com/

http://www.democracyfororegon.com/

[Guest guest]

I have a friend who insists every woman needs a husband and a wife.

Teehee!

> heidi, i would LOVE to have another wife around!!

>

> (but not in the bedroom!)

>

> maybe that means i just really want a slave!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Actually I wouldn't mind another

> wife or two to help with the house and kids.

>

> --Heidi Jean

>

>

[Guest guest]

Heidi Schuppenhauer wrote:

> Tho

> actually I think the historical norm was one male and as

> many females as he could afford. (as per the Old Testament

> and the Mormons even!). Actually I wouldn't mind another

> wife or two to help with the house and kids.

I'd hate to be one of those poor guys who ends up with no women, though.

Oh, wait....

[Guest guest]

>Heidi,

>

>good point! but i think there's a diff. between discussing sex and going

>to the bathroom for health reasons, and watching people on TV seeming to

>be obsessed with sex and going from one partner to the next. even in the

>context of relationships.

>

>sex is a part of life. so is going to the bathroom!

>

>again, it comes back to appropriate boundaries. doncha think?

>

>laura

Oh, society is all about boundaries! Those tribal societies where people wear

nothing but a g-string ... the g-string has to be placed *just so* and be of

the right color. Actually our society is so heterogenous that the problem

is no one really knows where the boundaries are, they keep changing, so

we are all in a state of angst. However, discussions like this between

people are what *set* the boundaries, so when people talk about going

back to the n era, one should talk about what that really *means* ...

which is a divided society where women are " innocent " and men aren't

and most things are never said aloud for any reason (and a doctor had

to deliver a baby by feel, because he couldn't look at the innocent woman's

vagina). THAT is a set of boundaries I have no desire to go back to.

It seems that in all societies, most men will try to watch the most sex

they possibly can (this holds true for many animals too ... if they can

get videos to watch other animals of their kind having sex, they will!).

Since we have a capitalistic society, people get what they will pay for.

Personally I find it all kind of silly (and usually plotless and poorly made,

kind of like fast food).

Still, I think that if one actually thinks about these things and researches

them, and maybe does some experiments, there is some ideal set of

boundaries that provides both flexibility and comfort. It may be

the boundaries are set in a state of tension/equilibrium ... in elephant

societies,

for example, the males run around in a permanent state of horniness,

until a female in estrus stamps her feet, then they all come running.

Where I live though, people act more or less as I would expect them to ...

reasonably polite, reasonably dressed except for teens who are trying

to shock their elders. I'm sure there is awful junk on TV, but I don't watch

it much (when I DO get the controller, it goes to the food channel or Discover)

and I'm sure there are awful sites on the net (but the few I've run across keep

running popup ads which REALLY annoys me so I avoid them like the plague).

My own set of annoyances with our society would run something like:

1. e-Viruses*

2. Microsoft

3. Ice storms mixed with alders and unburied power lines

4. My dishwasher acting up

5. Annoying clients

* I'm editing out political issues though.

People being too sexual in public would be, like, number 10024, maybe.

Way, way below people who beat up rural mailboxes or swipe purses.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>kwym, heidi jean. it almost sounds idyllic. it mightbe like livign

>with sisters and it seems it would be wonderful to share the workload

>and have such closeness and cooperation. but i'd venture to say that

>unless you're raised with that as a norm it would be very hard to

>make it work.

>

>how many examples can anyone point to of healthy, well-adjusted non-

>monogamous couples? i don't know any but i have heard several sad

>stories including a woman friend of mine andher husband. they

>considered themselves polyamorous and actively sought that

>lifestyle. one of the women they hooked up with reached a point she

>didn't want to share the man anymore and he left his wife and 2 young

>children. astonishingly, my friend is still pro-polyamory! i'm

>astonished because if it happened to me i'm pretty sure my attitude

>would be " once burned shame on you, twice burned shame on me " .

>

>vera

I don't know any personally, but I've seen a few writups. Of course I have no

idea

how they worked in REAL life. National Geo. has articles every so often of

tribal

societies with multiple wives, and sometimes on TV you hear about Mormon

families.

In both cases it is VERY institutionalized, not a " radical " idea, and not really

done

for sex, I think. Historically, men died a lot (they fought in wars and hunted

large

animals) and so there were more women than men, so polygamy made sense. A widow

on her own was doomed, and her children. She likely went to the nearest relative

(which is the law in the Old Testament, I believe). Well, the guy got an extra

sexual

partner and probably more important, more children. I'm not sure how well the

women always got along ... reading stuff like " the Joy Luck Club " you get the

idea

they fought alot too. (Amy Tan has nice insights into traditional Chinese life).

The only other example I heard about was a commune of sorts. There were 10

professional women, each with their own house. They shared one " husband " ...

he wasn't " employed " , he kept up the houses and did handyman kinds of things,

and

they scheduled his sleeping arrangements. That was interesting ... he wasn't

in " charge " in any sense, it was more like an Amazonian queendom and he

was the " kept man " . The woman said they liked men, but didn't want one around

all the time!

-- Heidi Jean