Re: What does high Delta mean?

[Guest guest]

Suzanne,

My oldest, 15, struggles with ADD, no hyperactivity. She is a typical teen in that getting her to do neurotherapy can at times be a challenge. Her willingness to do excercises isn't going to be any better. Can you give me an idea of what these excercises are like? What is likely to be her "teen" response to these excercises? She enjoys dance and excercise but they are done in an adult type environment. I hope you understand what I am asking.

-Nita

Subject: Re: Re: What does high Delta mean?To: braintrainer Date: Tuesday, July 29, 2008, 1:33 PM

For home trainers, or pros who wish to learn more about this, Suzanne has made an excellent DVD which combines information of what neurodevelopmental repatterning is and how it works--and contains demonstrations with explanations of the actual exercises that can be done at home. You can find it at http://www.brain- trainer.com/ software/ adjunctproduct. html .

On several occasions I've worked with Suzanne to use the TLC to demonstrate pre and post patterns with the exercise program between the measurements. More importantly, as I always say, the real-world effects are what we really care about producing, and the exercise program does lead the brain through developmental movements that it may have missed at the appropriate developmental stages--but which are still effective, given the brain's inherent plasticity, even years after they "should" have occurred

[Guest guest]



Thank you.

Mark

What Does High Delta Mean?

Gentlepeople,According to the research done at the research center I ran while working for Lexicor, the answer is that it all depends upon where the high amplitude Delta is located in the brain, the frequency of the Delta and the Delta coherence between any two locations. In my opinion and experience anytime inhibiting Delta is not working well, the problem is hyper coherent Delta. Find the locations involved and break up the hyper coherence and the Delta "problem" is quickly resolved.GENERALLYDelta in the 0-2 Hz range indicates that part of the brain is in a state of deep sleep. At times this is not good. <g> Delta in the range of 2-5 Hz indicates drowsiness and may be the result of the training being done. Sometimes a change of diet does more to alleviate this problem than biofeedback. The culprit is usually sugar, processed flour and cereals or the drinking water. Theta in the 3-6 Hz range is more indicative of dissociation. In my experience abused children and women tend to have this low Theta that is difficult to differentiate from high Delta. If the client with high amplitude Delta in the 3-6 Hz range is alert and attentive, this is a good indication of low frequency Theta rather than high frequency Delta. COHERENCEAs a rule, hyper coherent Delta is indicative of a closed head trauma while hypo coherent Delta usually accompanies learning disorders. Break up the coherence by training in the opposite direction for five minute intervals using an A - B - ... - A format of 1, 3, 5 or 7 five minute mini sessions. Train hyper C clients to decrease coherence and hypo C clients to increase coherence for five minutes or until the client tires of the process. Change the direction of the training. Thus you switch hyper C clients to increase and hypo C clients to decrease coherence for the next five minutes. Repeat this process but always end by training in the same direction as your first mini session training.AMPLITUDEAs a rule general, evenly distributed, high amplitude Delta is indicative of slow brain maturation and training to decrease Delta amplitude usually proved beneficial. Almost any location will work but FZ, CZ and PZ seem to work better most of the time. Training to increase Alpha amplitude at PZ eyes closed also proved to be beneficial.Temporal high amplitude Delta in the 0-2 Hz range usually accompanies a brain that is not very alert. Temporal high frequency high amplitude Delta in the 2-4 Hz range is an indication of an intuitive mind. This can be confirmed with high amplitude 100 Hz on either the right or both temporal lobes. (Training 100 Hz to increase intuition did not work.)Frontal high amplitude Delta usually accompanies low levels of concentration, focus, attention and awareness. The lower the frequency of the Delta the more difficult to resolve these issues. Obsessive behaviors tend to manifest more with lower frequency frontal Delta. Training to decrease frontal Delta usually proves beneficial. I had good luck by training to decrease frontal Delta (0-3 Hz) while increasing parietal Alpha (10-14 Hz) either concurrently or following the Delta work.I never did much work with high amplitude central or parietal Delta but I did observe that training to increase parietal Alpha tended to decrease parietal Delta and that excessive central Delta tended to decrease while the client was working to decrease frontal Delta.Peace,PS: I closed my clinic in 2002 and haven't done any clinical work since then. So I may not be current with my thinking.

[Guest guest]



Thank you.

Mark

What Does High Delta Mean?

Gentlepeople,According to the research done at the research center I ran while working for Lexicor, the answer is that it all depends upon where the high amplitude Delta is located in the brain, the frequency of the Delta and the Delta coherence between any two locations. In my opinion and experience anytime inhibiting Delta is not working well, the problem is hyper coherent Delta. Find the locations involved and break up the hyper coherence and the Delta "problem" is quickly resolved.GENERALLYDelta in the 0-2 Hz range indicates that part of the brain is in a state of deep sleep. At times this is not good. <g> Delta in the range of 2-5 Hz indicates drowsiness and may be the result of the training being done. Sometimes a change of diet does more to alleviate this problem than biofeedback. The culprit is usually sugar, processed flour and cereals or the drinking water. Theta in the 3-6 Hz range is more indicative of dissociation. In my experience abused children and women tend to have this low Theta that is difficult to differentiate from high Delta. If the client with high amplitude Delta in the 3-6 Hz range is alert and attentive, this is a good indication of low frequency Theta rather than high frequency Delta. COHERENCEAs a rule, hyper coherent Delta is indicative of a closed head trauma while hypo coherent Delta usually accompanies learning disorders. Break up the coherence by training in the opposite direction for five minute intervals using an A - B - ... - A format of 1, 3, 5 or 7 five minute mini sessions. Train hyper C clients to decrease coherence and hypo C clients to increase coherence for five minutes or until the client tires of the process. Change the direction of the training. Thus you switch hyper C clients to increase and hypo C clients to decrease coherence for the next five minutes. Repeat this process but always end by training in the same direction as your first mini session training.AMPLITUDEAs a rule general, evenly distributed, high amplitude Delta is indicative of slow brain maturation and training to decrease Delta amplitude usually proved beneficial. Almost any location will work but FZ, CZ and PZ seem to work better most of the time. Training to increase Alpha amplitude at PZ eyes closed also proved to be beneficial.Temporal high amplitude Delta in the 0-2 Hz range usually accompanies a brain that is not very alert. Temporal high frequency high amplitude Delta in the 2-4 Hz range is an indication of an intuitive mind. This can be confirmed with high amplitude 100 Hz on either the right or both temporal lobes. (Training 100 Hz to increase intuition did not work.)Frontal high amplitude Delta usually accompanies low levels of concentration, focus, attention and awareness. The lower the frequency of the Delta the more difficult to resolve these issues. Obsessive behaviors tend to manifest more with lower frequency frontal Delta. Training to decrease frontal Delta usually proves beneficial. I had good luck by training to decrease frontal Delta (0-3 Hz) while increasing parietal Alpha (10-14 Hz) either concurrently or following the Delta work.I never did much work with high amplitude central or parietal Delta but I did observe that training to increase parietal Alpha tended to decrease parietal Delta and that excessive central Delta tended to decrease while the client was working to decrease frontal Delta.Peace,PS: I closed my clinic in 2002 and haven't done any clinical work since then. So I may not be current with my thinking.

[Guest guest]

Suzanne,

This sounds like it might be similar to the work done by pediatric

neurologist, Dr Ferenc Katona, from Hungary. We travelled from here in

Australia to Budapest in the early 90s to take our son to see him. We had

already done a Doman-Delacato type patterning program for a couple of years

that got him moving, then did the Katona program for about a year. During the

ten days there he went from not being able to sit up to sitting up for 2 hours

at a time. It was amazing!

didn’t walk until he was 7 y.o. and we did

neurofeedback for about five years when he was 12 y.o. He is now almost 21 and

living in supported accommodation with two other guys and he absolutely loves

it.

Dr Katona’s research at the time was showing that if he

could start rehabilitation from 3 weeks of age (and definitely by 7 months),

then he was “normalizing” 63% of children with cerebral palsy by

the time they started school. ( has Angelman Syndrome, by the way, not

CP).

My mother was a federal parliamentarian at the time and had

approval from the Prime Minister to fund a trip to Australia for Dr Katona to

explain his methods to Australian neurologists. But professional jealousy

struck big time and the neurologists prevented his visit from ever occurring.

I just did a search and found this paper about Dr Katona’s

methods:

http://www.medigraphic.com/ingles/i-htms/i-plasticidad/i-prn2004/i-prn04-1_2/im-prn041_2h.htm

Mark

From:

braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf

Of Suzanne Day

Sent: Wednesday, 30 July 2008 6:07 AM

To: braintrainer

Subject: Re: Re: What does high Delta mean?

Rene,

I am not using HANDLE.

For the past 15 years I have been using an approach from Dr

Temple Fay, a neurologist, and kept learning from other professionals.

This approach uses movements that the baby does from the womb and

mainly during the first year of his life. These movements are based on

" primitive reflexes " that need to be integrated in the SNS in order

to provide better functions leading to efficient learning and attention span.

The movements activate the growth of the myeline that wraps around the

axons allowing the nervous influx to increase in speed. It is a bottom-up

approach, from the brain stem to frontal cortex (of course the influx

circulates back and forth).

Yes, I the use neurodevelopment first, especially with

children. From my perspective the neurofeedback training has its

place to acquire self-regulation and I use it after neurodevelopment program

(when parents request). However, the changes are so important with

the neurodevelopment that when I follow with the neurofeedback training, it is

for a short period of time. I see the NF as a second step of the process.

Neurofeedback works more from the cortex down. I prefer to

work at the brain stem up.

I just published a DVD

" Neurodevelopment Through Movements " that summarizes what I have

found the most helpful in my practice for most of the children I have worked

with. I tried to make it as " palatable " as possible for parents

who want to do something at home but have limited financial resources. I

do a longer program at my clinic. The DVD is 1 hour and 13 min.

long with 3 parts. First half-hour explains the neurology involved in

this approach and gives results from different psychometric tests and qEEG

before and after 80 sessions. Then a 6 min segment gives a demonstration

of the 12 movements in sequence to give a good idea of what it will look like

when the parent masters well the program with the child. Fo the next

half-hour, I describe in details how to do each movement. The program can

take you from 12 minutes to half and hour per day. The DVD can be ordered

from us and is also on sale on the brain-trainer web site. Pete saw it

and was impressed.

Don't hesitate to ask questions. I love to talk about.

Sincerely,

Suzanne Day

Neuropsychologist (Québec and

Alberta)

Psychological Associate

(Ontario)

suzanne.day@...

Ph.

and

F.

web:

www.wisechoiceeducationalservices.com

Suzanne,

You wrote: " I use a serie of neurodevelopmental movements to re-

activate the

> primitive reflexes from the brain stem. I use this approach before

I

> use neurofeedback training with children with high delta and most

of

> the time the changes are so significant that I do not use the NF. "

Have you ever found it the other way around---that kids who do NF

don't need the neurodevelopmental movements?

My son did Handle first and has been doing Nf for 18 months now. I

think both of them worked together well. But, I know adoptive

families who are evaluating whether or not to do neuro reorg or nf.

Some have ventured to do both.

It's wonderful that you have training in both therapies---very

unusual from what I have seen. I would appreciate your perspective on

this.

Rene Kay

> > What is high and what is low, in terms of microvolts, remains a

> > puzzle to me, especially without a Q. Hopefully, however, at

least

> > one can make a educated guess. I realize that there are lots of

> > variables that impact amplitudes (e.g., sensor location, time of

day

> > etc., etc.). In ADHD, thanks to to the work of Monastra et al.,

> > there are at least some age-based norms to assist in

interpretation

> > of data.

> >

> > If, for example, at Cz and A1/A2, you have a 45 year-old adult

with

> > a delta amplitude of 13 uV, theta of 10 uV, alpha of 8 uv, low

beta

> > of 5 uV, beta of 5, and hi beta of 10 uV, WHAT SORT OF HYPOTHESES

OR

> > POSSIBLE MEANINGS WOULD YOU develop?

> >

> > .

> >

> > --

> > Van Deusen

> > pvdtlc@...

> > http://www.brain-trainer.com

> > 305/433-3160

> > The Learning Curve, Inc.

> >

> >

>

No virus

found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1580 - Release Date: 7/29/2008 5:26

PM

[Guest guest]

Suzanne,

This sounds like it might be similar to the work done by pediatric

neurologist, Dr Ferenc Katona, from Hungary. We travelled from here in

Australia to Budapest in the early 90s to take our son to see him. We had

already done a Doman-Delacato type patterning program for a couple of years

that got him moving, then did the Katona program for about a year. During the

ten days there he went from not being able to sit up to sitting up for 2 hours

at a time. It was amazing!

didn’t walk until he was 7 y.o. and we did

neurofeedback for about five years when he was 12 y.o. He is now almost 21 and

living in supported accommodation with two other guys and he absolutely loves

it.

Dr Katona’s research at the time was showing that if he

could start rehabilitation from 3 weeks of age (and definitely by 7 months),

then he was “normalizing” 63% of children with cerebral palsy by

the time they started school. ( has Angelman Syndrome, by the way, not

CP).

My mother was a federal parliamentarian at the time and had

approval from the Prime Minister to fund a trip to Australia for Dr Katona to

explain his methods to Australian neurologists. But professional jealousy

struck big time and the neurologists prevented his visit from ever occurring.

I just did a search and found this paper about Dr Katona’s

methods:

http://www.medigraphic.com/ingles/i-htms/i-plasticidad/i-prn2004/i-prn04-1_2/im-prn041_2h.htm

Mark

From:

braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf

Of Suzanne Day

Sent: Wednesday, 30 July 2008 6:07 AM

To: braintrainer

Subject: Re: Re: What does high Delta mean?

Rene,

I am not using HANDLE.

For the past 15 years I have been using an approach from Dr

Temple Fay, a neurologist, and kept learning from other professionals.

This approach uses movements that the baby does from the womb and

mainly during the first year of his life. These movements are based on

" primitive reflexes " that need to be integrated in the SNS in order

to provide better functions leading to efficient learning and attention span.

The movements activate the growth of the myeline that wraps around the

axons allowing the nervous influx to increase in speed. It is a bottom-up

approach, from the brain stem to frontal cortex (of course the influx

circulates back and forth).

Yes, I the use neurodevelopment first, especially with

children. From my perspective the neurofeedback training has its

place to acquire self-regulation and I use it after neurodevelopment program

(when parents request). However, the changes are so important with

the neurodevelopment that when I follow with the neurofeedback training, it is

for a short period of time. I see the NF as a second step of the process.

Neurofeedback works more from the cortex down. I prefer to

work at the brain stem up.

I just published a DVD

" Neurodevelopment Through Movements " that summarizes what I have

found the most helpful in my practice for most of the children I have worked

with. I tried to make it as " palatable " as possible for parents

who want to do something at home but have limited financial resources. I

do a longer program at my clinic. The DVD is 1 hour and 13 min.

long with 3 parts. First half-hour explains the neurology involved in

this approach and gives results from different psychometric tests and qEEG

before and after 80 sessions. Then a 6 min segment gives a demonstration

of the 12 movements in sequence to give a good idea of what it will look like

when the parent masters well the program with the child. Fo the next

half-hour, I describe in details how to do each movement. The program can

take you from 12 minutes to half and hour per day. The DVD can be ordered

from us and is also on sale on the brain-trainer web site. Pete saw it

and was impressed.

Don't hesitate to ask questions. I love to talk about.

Sincerely,

Suzanne Day

Neuropsychologist (Québec and

Alberta)

Psychological Associate

(Ontario)

suzanne.day@...

Ph.

and

F.

web:

www.wisechoiceeducationalservices.com

Suzanne,

You wrote: " I use a serie of neurodevelopmental movements to re-

activate the

> primitive reflexes from the brain stem. I use this approach before

I

> use neurofeedback training with children with high delta and most

of

> the time the changes are so significant that I do not use the NF. "

Have you ever found it the other way around---that kids who do NF

don't need the neurodevelopmental movements?

My son did Handle first and has been doing Nf for 18 months now. I

think both of them worked together well. But, I know adoptive

families who are evaluating whether or not to do neuro reorg or nf.

Some have ventured to do both.

It's wonderful that you have training in both therapies---very

unusual from what I have seen. I would appreciate your perspective on

this.

Rene Kay

> > What is high and what is low, in terms of microvolts, remains a

> > puzzle to me, especially without a Q. Hopefully, however, at

least

> > one can make a educated guess. I realize that there are lots of

> > variables that impact amplitudes (e.g., sensor location, time of

day

> > etc., etc.). In ADHD, thanks to to the work of Monastra et al.,

> > there are at least some age-based norms to assist in

interpretation

> > of data.

> >

> > If, for example, at Cz and A1/A2, you have a 45 year-old adult

with

> > a delta amplitude of 13 uV, theta of 10 uV, alpha of 8 uv, low

beta

> > of 5 uV, beta of 5, and hi beta of 10 uV, WHAT SORT OF HYPOTHESES

OR

> > POSSIBLE MEANINGS WOULD YOU develop?

> >

> > .

> >

> > --

> > Van Deusen

> > pvdtlc@...

> > http://www.brain-trainer.com

> > 305/433-3160

> > The Learning Curve, Inc.

> >

> >

>

No virus

found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1580 - Release Date: 7/29/2008 5:26

PM

[Guest guest]

Nita, I understand very well because I have a 19 years old daughter who has been very uncooperative to do neurofeedback training. Although, she recognizes the benefit that she got from the neurodevelopment movements, the consistency is the issue!!!I am always very cautious to recommend these exercises to teens because of their lack of motivation to do something structured with mom! Often, if dad is convinced and willing to do them, it has been easier to get their cooperation. The teens that have done the program have had significant improvements in their issues and all got better in sports which is a great motivator for them.The sequence of movements start on the floor with homolateral patterning then cross-pattern, crawling on the belly homeolateral then cross-pattern (like in the army), then movements on the 4 limbs like dog walk slowly leading to movements on the 2 legs. There is a book called "Stopping ADD" by O'Dell and Cook, 2 PhDs from Purdue University. The book takes 230 pages to explain the benefit of the "dog walk" to integrate the Symetric Tonic Neck Reflex which is only one of the reflexes so often not integrated in children and teens ( and adults) with learning and attention problems. We also sale several good books on the neurodevelopmental approach.The danse is a good way to get them to move but it is at the cortex level. The benefit of the neurodevelopmental exercises comes from going back to these primary movements done on the floor to re-activate the proprioceptive pathways starting at the tendons and articulation points where the reflexes were activated.I am now studying a new way to do this work with uncooperative children and teens but I need to experiment more before I can talk about it.I hope it helps.Suzanne DayNeuropsychologist (Québec and Alberta)Psychological Associate (Ontario)suzanne.day@...Ph. and F. web: www.wisechoiceeducationalservices.comOn Jul 29, 2008, at 5:05 PM, Anita Fain wrote:Suzanne,My oldest, 15, struggles with ADD, no hyperactivity. She is a typical teen in that getting her to do neurotherapy can at times be a challenge. Her willingness to do excercises isn't going to be any better. Can you give me an idea of what these excercises are like? What is likely to be her "teen" response to these excercises? She enjoys dance and excercise but they are done in an adult type environment. I hope you understand what I am asking.-Nita "I use a serie of neurodevelopmental movements to re-activate the > primitive reflexes from the brain stem. I use this approach before I > use neurofeedback training with children with high delta and most of > the time the changes are so significant that I do not use the NF."Have you ever found it the other way around---that kids who do NF don't need the neurodevelopmental movements? My son did Handle first and has been doing Nf for 18 months now. I think both of them worked together well. But, I know adoptive families who are evaluating whether or not to do neuro reorg or nf. Some have ventured to do both.It's wonderful that you have training in both therapies--- very unusual from what I have seen. I would appreciate your perspective on this.Rene Kay.-- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmail (DOT) comhttp://www.brain- trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

Nita, I understand very well because I have a 19 years old daughter who has been very uncooperative to do neurofeedback training. Although, she recognizes the benefit that she got from the neurodevelopment movements, the consistency is the issue!!!I am always very cautious to recommend these exercises to teens because of their lack of motivation to do something structured with mom! Often, if dad is convinced and willing to do them, it has been easier to get their cooperation. The teens that have done the program have had significant improvements in their issues and all got better in sports which is a great motivator for them.The sequence of movements start on the floor with homolateral patterning then cross-pattern, crawling on the belly homeolateral then cross-pattern (like in the army), then movements on the 4 limbs like dog walk slowly leading to movements on the 2 legs. There is a book called "Stopping ADD" by O'Dell and Cook, 2 PhDs from Purdue University. The book takes 230 pages to explain the benefit of the "dog walk" to integrate the Symetric Tonic Neck Reflex which is only one of the reflexes so often not integrated in children and teens ( and adults) with learning and attention problems. We also sale several good books on the neurodevelopmental approach.The danse is a good way to get them to move but it is at the cortex level. The benefit of the neurodevelopmental exercises comes from going back to these primary movements done on the floor to re-activate the proprioceptive pathways starting at the tendons and articulation points where the reflexes were activated.I am now studying a new way to do this work with uncooperative children and teens but I need to experiment more before I can talk about it.I hope it helps.Suzanne DayNeuropsychologist (Québec and Alberta)Psychological Associate (Ontario)suzanne.day@...Ph. and F. web: www.wisechoiceeducationalservices.comOn Jul 29, 2008, at 5:05 PM, Anita Fain wrote:Suzanne,My oldest, 15, struggles with ADD, no hyperactivity. She is a typical teen in that getting her to do neurotherapy can at times be a challenge. Her willingness to do excercises isn't going to be any better. Can you give me an idea of what these excercises are like? What is likely to be her "teen" response to these excercises? She enjoys dance and excercise but they are done in an adult type environment. I hope you understand what I am asking.-Nita "I use a serie of neurodevelopmental movements to re-activate the > primitive reflexes from the brain stem. I use this approach before I > use neurofeedback training with children with high delta and most of > the time the changes are so significant that I do not use the NF."Have you ever found it the other way around---that kids who do NF don't need the neurodevelopmental movements? My son did Handle first and has been doing Nf for 18 months now. I think both of them worked together well. But, I know adoptive families who are evaluating whether or not to do neuro reorg or nf. Some have ventured to do both.It's wonderful that you have training in both therapies--- very unusual from what I have seen. I would appreciate your perspective on this.Rene Kay.-- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmail (DOT) comhttp://www.brain- trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

Hey

I just got confirmation that your DVD is on its way to me from

the Learning Curve.  Really looking forward to its arrival  and maybe chatting

to you about things after I have sat through it.

Warm Regards

Malcolm McEnery,

(Australian College of Clinical Psychologists, National

Executive Treasurer.  General Practice Logan Area Network BOiMHC Reference

Group.)

Beenleigh Counselling & Psychology PO Box 1505.

(Suite 1, Trinity Place, 1 St.)

Beenleigh Q4207

Phone                   (07) 3503 1477,  (07) 3503 1478 &

(07) 3382 0271 (Answering Machine Line)

Fax                     (07) 3009 0605    International use

(617) in place of (07)

Mobile                  0414 700 115

malcolm@...

Qld Psychologist Registration Board            #1031877

Clinical Counsellor(CPC)ACA Registration       #2915

Clinical Member of QAFT                        #0054

      _--_|\                     

     /      *    Beenleigh

     \_.--\_/    Australia

           \/

From: braintrainer

[mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf Of Suzanne Day

Sent: Wednesday, 30 July 2008 6:16 AM

To: braintrainer

Subject: Re: Re: What does high Delta mean?

Rene,

I am not using HANDLE.

For the past 15 years I have been using an approach from Dr

Temple Fay, a neurologist, and kept learning from other professionals.

This approach uses movements that the baby does from the womb and

mainly during the first year of his life. These movements are based on

" primitive reflexes " that need to be integrated in the SNS in order

to provide better functions leading to efficient learning and attention span.

The movements activate the growth of the myeline that wraps around the

axons allowing the nervous influx to increase in speed. It is a bottom-up

approach, from the brain stem to frontal cortex (of course the influx

circulates back and forth).

Yes, I the use neurodevelopment first, especially with

children. From my perspective the neurofeedback training has its

place to acquire self-regulation and I use it after neurodevelopment program

(when parents request). However, the changes are so important with

the neurodevelopment that when I follow with the neurofeedback training, it is

for a short period of time. I see the NF as a second step of the process.

Neurofeedback works more from the cortex down. I prefer to

work at the brain stem up.

I just published a DVD

" Neurodevelopment Through Movements " that summarizes what I have

found the most helpful in my practice for most of the children I have worked

with. I tried to make it as " palatable " as possible for parents

who want to do something at home but have limited financial resources. I

do a longer program at my clinic. The DVD is 1 hour and 13 min.

long with 3 parts. First half-hour explains the neurology involved in

this approach and gives results from different psychometric tests and qEEG before

and after 80 sessions. Then a 6 min segment gives a demonstration of the

12 movements in sequence to give a good idea of what it will look like when the

parent masters well the program with the child. Fo the next half-hour, I

describe in details how to do each movement. The program can take you

from 12 minutes to half and hour per day. The DVD can be ordered from us

and is also on sale on the brain-trainer web site. Pete saw it and was

impressed.

Don't hesitate to ask questions. I love to talk about.

Sincerely,

Suzanne Day

Neuropsychologist (Québec and

Alberta)

Psychological Associate

(Ontario)

suzanne.day@...

Ph.

and

F.

web:

www.wisechoiceeducationalservices.com

Suzanne,

You wrote: " I use a serie of neurodevelopmental movements to re-

activate the

> primitive reflexes from the brain stem. I use this approach before

I

> use neurofeedback training with children with high delta and most

of

> the time the changes are so significant that I do not use the NF. "

Have you ever found it the other way around---that kids who do NF

don't need the neurodevelopmental movements?

My son did Handle first and has been doing Nf for 18 months now. I

think both of them worked together well. But, I know adoptive

families who are evaluating whether or not to do neuro reorg or nf.

Some have ventured to do both.

It's wonderful that you have training in both therapies---very

unusual from what I have seen. I would appreciate your perspective on

this.

Rene Kay

> > What is high and what is low, in terms of microvolts, remains a

> > puzzle to me, especially without a Q. Hopefully, however, at

least

> > one can make a educated guess. I realize that there are lots of

> > variables that impact amplitudes (e.g., sensor location, time of

day

> > etc., etc.). In ADHD, thanks to to the work of Monastra et al.,

> > there are at least some age-based norms to assist in

interpretation

> > of data.

> >

> > If, for example, at Cz and A1/A2, you have a 45 year-old adult

with

> > a delta amplitude of 13 uV, theta of 10 uV, alpha of 8 uv, low

beta

> > of 5 uV, beta of 5, and hi beta of 10 uV, WHAT SORT OF HYPOTHESES

OR

> > POSSIBLE MEANINGS WOULD YOU develop?

> >

> > .

> >

> > --

> > Van Deusen

> > pvdtlc@...

> > http://www.brain-trainer.com

> > 305/433-3160

> > The Learning Curve, Inc.

> >

> >

>

No virus

found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1580 - Release Date: 7/29/2008 5:26

PM

[Guest guest]

Hey

I just got confirmation that your DVD is on its way to me from

the Learning Curve.  Really looking forward to its arrival  and maybe chatting

to you about things after I have sat through it.

Warm Regards

Malcolm McEnery,

(Australian College of Clinical Psychologists, National

Executive Treasurer.  General Practice Logan Area Network BOiMHC Reference

Group.)

Beenleigh Counselling & Psychology PO Box 1505.

(Suite 1, Trinity Place, 1 St.)

Beenleigh Q4207

Phone                   (07) 3503 1477,  (07) 3503 1478 &

(07) 3382 0271 (Answering Machine Line)

Fax                     (07) 3009 0605    International use

(617) in place of (07)

Mobile                  0414 700 115

malcolm@...

Qld Psychologist Registration Board            #1031877

Clinical Counsellor(CPC)ACA Registration       #2915

Clinical Member of QAFT                        #0054

      _--_|\                     

     /      *    Beenleigh

     \_.--\_/    Australia

           \/

From: braintrainer

[mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf Of Suzanne Day

Sent: Wednesday, 30 July 2008 6:16 AM

To: braintrainer

Subject: Re: Re: What does high Delta mean?

Rene,

I am not using HANDLE.

For the past 15 years I have been using an approach from Dr

Temple Fay, a neurologist, and kept learning from other professionals.

This approach uses movements that the baby does from the womb and

mainly during the first year of his life. These movements are based on

" primitive reflexes " that need to be integrated in the SNS in order

to provide better functions leading to efficient learning and attention span.

The movements activate the growth of the myeline that wraps around the

axons allowing the nervous influx to increase in speed. It is a bottom-up

approach, from the brain stem to frontal cortex (of course the influx

circulates back and forth).

Yes, I the use neurodevelopment first, especially with

children. From my perspective the neurofeedback training has its

place to acquire self-regulation and I use it after neurodevelopment program

(when parents request). However, the changes are so important with

the neurodevelopment that when I follow with the neurofeedback training, it is

for a short period of time. I see the NF as a second step of the process.

Neurofeedback works more from the cortex down. I prefer to

work at the brain stem up.

I just published a DVD

" Neurodevelopment Through Movements " that summarizes what I have

found the most helpful in my practice for most of the children I have worked

with. I tried to make it as " palatable " as possible for parents

who want to do something at home but have limited financial resources. I

do a longer program at my clinic. The DVD is 1 hour and 13 min.

long with 3 parts. First half-hour explains the neurology involved in

this approach and gives results from different psychometric tests and qEEG before

and after 80 sessions. Then a 6 min segment gives a demonstration of the

12 movements in sequence to give a good idea of what it will look like when the

parent masters well the program with the child. Fo the next half-hour, I

describe in details how to do each movement. The program can take you

from 12 minutes to half and hour per day. The DVD can be ordered from us

and is also on sale on the brain-trainer web site. Pete saw it and was

impressed.

Don't hesitate to ask questions. I love to talk about.

Sincerely,

Suzanne Day

Neuropsychologist (Québec and

Alberta)

Psychological Associate

(Ontario)

suzanne.day@...

Ph.

and

F.

web:

www.wisechoiceeducationalservices.com

Suzanne,

You wrote: " I use a serie of neurodevelopmental movements to re-

activate the

> primitive reflexes from the brain stem. I use this approach before

I

> use neurofeedback training with children with high delta and most

of

> the time the changes are so significant that I do not use the NF. "

Have you ever found it the other way around---that kids who do NF

don't need the neurodevelopmental movements?

My son did Handle first and has been doing Nf for 18 months now. I

think both of them worked together well. But, I know adoptive

families who are evaluating whether or not to do neuro reorg or nf.

Some have ventured to do both.

It's wonderful that you have training in both therapies---very

unusual from what I have seen. I would appreciate your perspective on

this.

Rene Kay

> > What is high and what is low, in terms of microvolts, remains a

> > puzzle to me, especially without a Q. Hopefully, however, at

least

> > one can make a educated guess. I realize that there are lots of

> > variables that impact amplitudes (e.g., sensor location, time of

day

> > etc., etc.). In ADHD, thanks to to the work of Monastra et al.,

> > there are at least some age-based norms to assist in

interpretation

> > of data.

> >

> > If, for example, at Cz and A1/A2, you have a 45 year-old adult

with

> > a delta amplitude of 13 uV, theta of 10 uV, alpha of 8 uv, low

beta

> > of 5 uV, beta of 5, and hi beta of 10 uV, WHAT SORT OF HYPOTHESES

OR

> > POSSIBLE MEANINGS WOULD YOU develop?

> >

> > .

> >

> > --

> > Van Deusen

> > pvdtlc@...

> > http://www.brain-trainer.com

> > 305/433-3160

> > The Learning Curve, Inc.

> >

> >

>

No virus

found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1580 - Release Date: 7/29/2008 5:26

PM

[Guest guest]

Mark,Thank you so much for digging this article for me. I do not work with Cerebral Palsy but with the ADHD, LD, Autism, Asperger, etc but the principles are the same. SuzanneOn Jul 29, 2008, at 7:51 PM, Mark Darling Neurotherapy wrote:Suzanne, This sounds like it might be similar to the work done by pediatric neurologist, Dr Ferenc Katona, from Hungary. We travelled from here in Australia to Budapest in the early 90s to take our son to see him. We had already done a Doman-Delacato type patterning program for a couple of years that got him moving, then did the Katona program for about a year. During the ten days there he went from not being able to sit up to sitting up for 2 hours at a time. It was amazing! didn’t walk until he was 7 y.o. and we did neurofeedback for about five years when he was 12 y.o. He is now almost 21 and living in supported accommodation with two other guys and he absolutely loves it. Dr Katona’s research at the time was showing that if he could start rehabilitation from 3 weeks of age (and definitely by 7 months), then he was “normalizing” 63% of children with cerebral palsy by the time they started school. ( has Angelman Syndrome, by the way, not CP). My mother was a federal parliamentarian at the time and had approval from the Prime Minister to fund a trip to Australia for Dr Katona to explain his methods to Australian neurologists. But professional jealousy struck big time and the neurologists prevented his visit from ever occurring. I just did a search and found this paper about Dr Katona’s methods: http://www.medigraphic.com/ingles/i-htms/i-plasticidad/i-prn2004/i-prn04-1_2/im-prn041_2h.htm Mark From: braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ]On Behalf Of Suzanne DaySent: Wednesday, 30 July 2008 6:07 AMTo: braintrainer Subject: Re: Re: What does high Delta mean? Rene,I am not using HANDLE. For the past 15 years I have been using an approach from Dr Temple Fay, a neurologist, and kept learning from other professionals. This approach uses movements that the baby does from the womb and mainly during the first year of his life. These movements are based on "primitive reflexes" that need to be integrated in the SNS in order to provide better functions leading to efficient learning and attention span. The movements activate the growth of the myeline that wraps around the axons allowing the nervous influx to increase in speed. It is a bottom-up approach, from the brain stem to frontal cortex (of course the influx circulates back and forth). Yes, I the use neurodevelopment first, especially with children. From my perspective the neurofeedback training has its place to acquire self-regulation and I use it after neurodevelopment program (when parents request). However, the changes are so important with the neurodevelopment that when I follow with the neurofeedback training, it is for a short period of time. I see the NF as a second step of the process. Neurofeedback works more from the cortex down. I prefer to work at the brain stem up. I just published a DVD "Neurodevelopment Through Movements" that summarizes what I have found the most helpful in my practice for most of the children I have worked with. I tried to make it as "palatable" as possible for parents who want to do something at home but have limited financial resources. I do a longer program at my clinic. The DVD is 1 hour and 13 min. long with 3 parts. First half-hour explains the neurology involved in this approach and gives results from different psychometric tests and qEEG before and after 80 sessions. Then a 6 min segment gives a demonstration of the 12 movements in sequence to give a good idea of what it will look like when the parent masters well the program with the child. Fo the next half-hour, I describe in details how to do each movement. The program can take you from 12 minutes to half and hour per day. The DVD can be ordered from us and is also on sale on the brain-trainer web site. Pete saw it and was impressed. Don't hesitate to ask questions. I love to talk about. Sincerely, Suzanne DayNeuropsychologist (Québec and Alberta)Psychological Associate (Ontario)suzanne.dayrogersPh. and F. web: www.wisechoiceeducationalservices.com On Jul 29, 2008, at 11:59 AM, renekay97213 wrote:Suzanne,You wrote: "I use a serie of neurodevelopmental movements to re-activate the > primitive reflexes from the brain stem. I use this approach before I > use neurofeedback training with children with high delta and most of > the time the changes are so significant that I do not use the NF."Have you ever found it the other way around---that kids who do NF don't need the neurodevelopmental movements? My son did Handle first and has been doing Nf for 18 months now. I think both of them worked together well. But, I know adoptive families who are evaluating whether or not to do neuro reorg or nf. Some have ventured to do both.It's wonderful that you have training in both therapies---very unusual from what I have seen. I would appreciate your perspective on this.Rene Kay> > What is high and what is low, in terms of microvolts, remains a > > puzzle to me, especially without a Q. Hopefully, however, at least > > one can make a educated guess. I realize that there are lots of > > variables that impact amplitudes (e.g., sensor location, time of day > > etc., etc.). In ADHD, thanks to to the work of Monastra et al., > > there are at least some age-based norms to assist in interpretation > > of data.> >> > If, for example, at Cz and A1/A2, you have a 45 year-old adult with > > a delta amplitude of 13 uV, theta of 10 uV, alpha of 8 uv, low beta > > of 5 uV, beta of 5, and hi beta of 10 uV, WHAT SORT OF HYPOTHESES OR > > POSSIBLE MEANINGS WOULD YOU develop?> >> > .> >> > -- > > Van Deusen> > pvdtlc@...> > http://www.brain-trainer.com> > 305/433-3160> > The Learning Curve, Inc.> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.comVersion: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1580 - Release Date: 7/29/2008 5:26 PM Suzanne DayNeuropsychologist (Québec and Alberta)Psychological Associate (Ontario)suzanne.day@...Ph. and F. web: www.wisechoiceeducationalservices.com

[Guest guest]

Mark,Thank you so much for digging this article for me. I do not work with Cerebral Palsy but with the ADHD, LD, Autism, Asperger, etc but the principles are the same. SuzanneOn Jul 29, 2008, at 7:51 PM, Mark Darling Neurotherapy wrote:Suzanne, This sounds like it might be similar to the work done by pediatric neurologist, Dr Ferenc Katona, from Hungary. We travelled from here in Australia to Budapest in the early 90s to take our son to see him. We had already done a Doman-Delacato type patterning program for a couple of years that got him moving, then did the Katona program for about a year. During the ten days there he went from not being able to sit up to sitting up for 2 hours at a time. It was amazing! didn’t walk until he was 7 y.o. and we did neurofeedback for about five years when he was 12 y.o. He is now almost 21 and living in supported accommodation with two other guys and he absolutely loves it. Dr Katona’s research at the time was showing that if he could start rehabilitation from 3 weeks of age (and definitely by 7 months), then he was “normalizing” 63% of children with cerebral palsy by the time they started school. ( has Angelman Syndrome, by the way, not CP). My mother was a federal parliamentarian at the time and had approval from the Prime Minister to fund a trip to Australia for Dr Katona to explain his methods to Australian neurologists. But professional jealousy struck big time and the neurologists prevented his visit from ever occurring. I just did a search and found this paper about Dr Katona’s methods: http://www.medigraphic.com/ingles/i-htms/i-plasticidad/i-prn2004/i-prn04-1_2/im-prn041_2h.htm Mark From: braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ]On Behalf Of Suzanne DaySent: Wednesday, 30 July 2008 6:07 AMTo: braintrainer Subject: Re: Re: What does high Delta mean? Rene,I am not using HANDLE. For the past 15 years I have been using an approach from Dr Temple Fay, a neurologist, and kept learning from other professionals. This approach uses movements that the baby does from the womb and mainly during the first year of his life. These movements are based on "primitive reflexes" that need to be integrated in the SNS in order to provide better functions leading to efficient learning and attention span. The movements activate the growth of the myeline that wraps around the axons allowing the nervous influx to increase in speed. It is a bottom-up approach, from the brain stem to frontal cortex (of course the influx circulates back and forth). Yes, I the use neurodevelopment first, especially with children. From my perspective the neurofeedback training has its place to acquire self-regulation and I use it after neurodevelopment program (when parents request). However, the changes are so important with the neurodevelopment that when I follow with the neurofeedback training, it is for a short period of time. I see the NF as a second step of the process. Neurofeedback works more from the cortex down. I prefer to work at the brain stem up. I just published a DVD "Neurodevelopment Through Movements" that summarizes what I have found the most helpful in my practice for most of the children I have worked with. I tried to make it as "palatable" as possible for parents who want to do something at home but have limited financial resources. I do a longer program at my clinic. The DVD is 1 hour and 13 min. long with 3 parts. First half-hour explains the neurology involved in this approach and gives results from different psychometric tests and qEEG before and after 80 sessions. Then a 6 min segment gives a demonstration of the 12 movements in sequence to give a good idea of what it will look like when the parent masters well the program with the child. Fo the next half-hour, I describe in details how to do each movement. The program can take you from 12 minutes to half and hour per day. The DVD can be ordered from us and is also on sale on the brain-trainer web site. Pete saw it and was impressed. Don't hesitate to ask questions. I love to talk about. Sincerely, Suzanne DayNeuropsychologist (Québec and Alberta)Psychological Associate (Ontario)suzanne.dayrogersPh. and F. web: www.wisechoiceeducationalservices.com On Jul 29, 2008, at 11:59 AM, renekay97213 wrote:Suzanne,You wrote: "I use a serie of neurodevelopmental movements to re-activate the > primitive reflexes from the brain stem. I use this approach before I > use neurofeedback training with children with high delta and most of > the time the changes are so significant that I do not use the NF."Have you ever found it the other way around---that kids who do NF don't need the neurodevelopmental movements? My son did Handle first and has been doing Nf for 18 months now. I think both of them worked together well. But, I know adoptive families who are evaluating whether or not to do neuro reorg or nf. Some have ventured to do both.It's wonderful that you have training in both therapies---very unusual from what I have seen. I would appreciate your perspective on this.Rene Kay> > What is high and what is low, in terms of microvolts, remains a > > puzzle to me, especially without a Q. Hopefully, however, at least > > one can make a educated guess. I realize that there are lots of > > variables that impact amplitudes (e.g., sensor location, time of day > > etc., etc.). In ADHD, thanks to to the work of Monastra et al., > > there are at least some age-based norms to assist in interpretation > > of data.> >> > If, for example, at Cz and A1/A2, you have a 45 year-old adult with > > a delta amplitude of 13 uV, theta of 10 uV, alpha of 8 uv, low beta > > of 5 uV, beta of 5, and hi beta of 10 uV, WHAT SORT OF HYPOTHESES OR > > POSSIBLE MEANINGS WOULD YOU develop?> >> > .> >> > -- > > Van Deusen> > pvdtlc@...> > http://www.brain-trainer.com> > 305/433-3160> > The Learning Curve, Inc.> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.comVersion: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1580 - Release Date: 7/29/2008 5:26 PM Suzanne DayNeuropsychologist (Québec and Alberta)Psychological Associate (Ontario)suzanne.day@...Ph. and F. web: www.wisechoiceeducationalservices.com

[Guest guest]

I will be glad to chat with you. do not hesitate to contact me.SuzanneHey I just got confirmation that your DVD is on its way to me from the Learning Curve. Really looking forward to its arrival and maybe chatting to you about things after I have sat through it. Warm Regards Malcolm McEnery,(Australian College of Clinical Psychologists, National Executive Treasurer. General Practice Logan Area Network BOiMHC Reference Group.)Beenleigh Counselling & Psychology PO Box 1505.(Suite 1, Trinity Place, 1 St.)Beenleigh Q4207Phone (07) 3503 1477, (07) 3503 1478 & (07) 3382 0271 (Answering Machine Line)Fax (07) 3009 0605 International use (617) in place of (07)Mobile 0414 700 115malcolmbeenleighcounsellingQld Psychologist Registration Board #1031877Clinical Counsellor(CPC)ACA Registration #2915Clinical Member of QAFT #0054 _--_|\ / * Beenleigh \_.--\_/ Australia \/ From: braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ]On Behalf Of Suzanne DaySent: Wednesday, 30 July 2008 6:16 AMTo: braintrainer Subject: Re: Re: What does high Delta mean? Rene,I am not using HANDLE. For the past 15 years I have been using an approach from Dr Temple Fay, a neurologist, and kept learning from other professionals. This approach uses movements that the baby does from the womb and mainly during the first year of his life. These movements are based on "primitive reflexes" that need to be integrated in the SNS in order to provide better functions leading to efficient learning and attention span. The movements activate the growth of the myeline that wraps around the axons allowing the nervous influx to increase in speed. It is a bottom-up approach, from the brain stem to frontal cortex (of course the influx circulates back and forth). Yes, I the use neurodevelopment first, especially with children. From my perspective the neurofeedback training has its place to acquire self-regulation and I use it after neurodevelopment program (when parents request). However, the changes are so important with the neurodevelopment that when I follow with the neurofeedback training, it is for a short period of time. I see the NF as a second step of the process. Neurofeedback works more from the cortex down. I prefer to work at the brain stem up. I just published a DVD "Neurodevelopment Through Movements" that summarizes what I have found the most helpful in my practice for most of the children I have worked with. I tried to make it as "palatable" as possible for parents who want to do something at home but have limited financial resources. I do a longer program at my clinic. The DVD is 1 hour and 13 min. long with 3 parts. First half-hour explains the neurology involved in this approach and gives results from different psychometric tests and qEEG before and after 80 sessions. Then a 6 min segment gives a demonstration of the 12 movements in sequence to give a good idea of what it will look like when the parent masters well the program with the child. Fo the next half-hour, I describe in details how to do each movement. The program can take you from 12 minutes to half and hour per day. The DVD can be ordered from us and is also on sale on the brain-trainer web site. Pete saw it and was impressed. Don't hesitate to ask questions. I love to talk about. Sincerely, Suzanne DayNeuropsychologist (Québec and Alberta)Psychological Associate (Ontario)suzanne.dayrogersPh. and F. web: www.wisechoiceeducationalservices.com On Jul 29, 2008, at 11:59 AM, renekay97213 wrote:Suzanne,You wrote: "I use a serie of neurodevelopmental movements to re-activate the > primitive reflexes from the brain stem. I use this approach before I > use neurofeedback training with children with high delta and most of > the time the changes are so significant that I do not use the NF."Have you ever found it the other way around---that kids who do NF don't need the neurodevelopmental movements? My son did Handle first and has been doing Nf for 18 months now. I think both of them worked together well. But, I know adoptive families who are evaluating whether or not to do neuro reorg or nf. Some have ventured to do both.It's wonderful that you have training in both therapies---very unusual from what I have seen. I would appreciate your perspective on this.Rene Kay> > What is high and what is low, in terms of microvolts, remains a > > puzzle to me, especially without a Q. Hopefully, however, at least > > one can make a educated guess. I realize that there are lots of > > variables that impact amplitudes (e.g., sensor location, time of day > > etc., etc.). In ADHD, thanks to to the work of Monastra et al., > > there are at least some age-based norms to assist in interpretation > > of data.> >> > If, for example, at Cz and A1/A2, you have a 45 year-old adult with > > a delta amplitude of 13 uV, theta of 10 uV, alpha of 8 uv, low beta > > of 5 uV, beta of 5, and hi beta of 10 uV, WHAT SORT OF HYPOTHESES OR > > POSSIBLE MEANINGS WOULD YOU develop?> >> > .> >> > -- > > Van Deusen> > pvdtlc@...> > http://www.brain-trainer.com> > 305/433-3160> > The Learning Curve, Inc.> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.comVersion: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1580 - Release Date: 7/29/2008 5:26 PM Suzanne DayNeuropsychologist (Québec and Alberta)Psychological Associate (Ontario)suzanne.day@...Ph. and F. web: www.wisechoiceeducationalservices.com

[Guest guest]

I will be glad to chat with you. do not hesitate to contact me.SuzanneHey I just got confirmation that your DVD is on its way to me from the Learning Curve. Really looking forward to its arrival and maybe chatting to you about things after I have sat through it. Warm Regards Malcolm McEnery,(Australian College of Clinical Psychologists, National Executive Treasurer. General Practice Logan Area Network BOiMHC Reference Group.)Beenleigh Counselling & Psychology PO Box 1505.(Suite 1, Trinity Place, 1 St.)Beenleigh Q4207Phone (07) 3503 1477, (07) 3503 1478 & (07) 3382 0271 (Answering Machine Line)Fax (07) 3009 0605 International use (617) in place of (07)Mobile 0414 700 115malcolmbeenleighcounsellingQld Psychologist Registration Board #1031877Clinical Counsellor(CPC)ACA Registration #2915Clinical Member of QAFT #0054 _--_|\ / * Beenleigh \_.--\_/ Australia \/ From: braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ]On Behalf Of Suzanne DaySent: Wednesday, 30 July 2008 6:16 AMTo: braintrainer Subject: Re: Re: What does high Delta mean? Rene,I am not using HANDLE. For the past 15 years I have been using an approach from Dr Temple Fay, a neurologist, and kept learning from other professionals. This approach uses movements that the baby does from the womb and mainly during the first year of his life. These movements are based on "primitive reflexes" that need to be integrated in the SNS in order to provide better functions leading to efficient learning and attention span. The movements activate the growth of the myeline that wraps around the axons allowing the nervous influx to increase in speed. It is a bottom-up approach, from the brain stem to frontal cortex (of course the influx circulates back and forth). Yes, I the use neurodevelopment first, especially with children. From my perspective the neurofeedback training has its place to acquire self-regulation and I use it after neurodevelopment program (when parents request). However, the changes are so important with the neurodevelopment that when I follow with the neurofeedback training, it is for a short period of time. I see the NF as a second step of the process. Neurofeedback works more from the cortex down. I prefer to work at the brain stem up. I just published a DVD "Neurodevelopment Through Movements" that summarizes what I have found the most helpful in my practice for most of the children I have worked with. I tried to make it as "palatable" as possible for parents who want to do something at home but have limited financial resources. I do a longer program at my clinic. The DVD is 1 hour and 13 min. long with 3 parts. First half-hour explains the neurology involved in this approach and gives results from different psychometric tests and qEEG before and after 80 sessions. Then a 6 min segment gives a demonstration of the 12 movements in sequence to give a good idea of what it will look like when the parent masters well the program with the child. Fo the next half-hour, I describe in details how to do each movement. The program can take you from 12 minutes to half and hour per day. The DVD can be ordered from us and is also on sale on the brain-trainer web site. Pete saw it and was impressed. Don't hesitate to ask questions. I love to talk about. Sincerely, Suzanne DayNeuropsychologist (Québec and Alberta)Psychological Associate (Ontario)suzanne.dayrogersPh. and F. web: www.wisechoiceeducationalservices.com On Jul 29, 2008, at 11:59 AM, renekay97213 wrote:Suzanne,You wrote: "I use a serie of neurodevelopmental movements to re-activate the > primitive reflexes from the brain stem. I use this approach before I > use neurofeedback training with children with high delta and most of > the time the changes are so significant that I do not use the NF."Have you ever found it the other way around---that kids who do NF don't need the neurodevelopmental movements? My son did Handle first and has been doing Nf for 18 months now. I think both of them worked together well. But, I know adoptive families who are evaluating whether or not to do neuro reorg or nf. Some have ventured to do both.It's wonderful that you have training in both therapies---very unusual from what I have seen. I would appreciate your perspective on this.Rene Kay> > What is high and what is low, in terms of microvolts, remains a > > puzzle to me, especially without a Q. Hopefully, however, at least > > one can make a educated guess. I realize that there are lots of > > variables that impact amplitudes (e.g., sensor location, time of day > > etc., etc.). In ADHD, thanks to to the work of Monastra et al., > > there are at least some age-based norms to assist in interpretation > > of data.> >> > If, for example, at Cz and A1/A2, you have a 45 year-old adult with > > a delta amplitude of 13 uV, theta of 10 uV, alpha of 8 uv, low beta > > of 5 uV, beta of 5, and hi beta of 10 uV, WHAT SORT OF HYPOTHESES OR > > POSSIBLE MEANINGS WOULD YOU develop?> >> > .> >> > -- > > Van Deusen> > pvdtlc@...> > http://www.brain-trainer.com> > 305/433-3160> > The Learning Curve, Inc.> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.comVersion: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1580 - Release Date: 7/29/2008 5:26 PM Suzanne DayNeuropsychologist (Québec and Alberta)Psychological Associate (Ontario)suzanne.day@...Ph. and F. web: www.wisechoiceeducationalservices.com

[Guest guest]

Yes … I now work with the same population as you, but those

methods certainly worked well for , who doesn’t have CP either.

Mark

From:

braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf

Of Suzanne Day

Sent: Wednesday, 30 July 2008 10:15 AM

To: braintrainer

Subject: Re: Re: What does high Delta mean?

Mark,

Thank you so much for digging this article for me.

I do not work with Cerebral Palsy but with the ADHD, LD,

Autism, Asperger, etc but the principles are the same.

Suzanne

On Jul 29, 2008, at 7:51 PM, Mark Darling Neurotherapy

wrote:

Suzanne,

This sounds like

it might be similar to the work done by pediatric neurologist, Dr Ferenc

Katona, from Hungary. We travelled from here in Australia to Budapest in the

early 90s to take our son to see him. We had already done a Doman-Delacato type

patterning program for a couple of years that got him moving, then did the

Katona program for about a year. During the ten days there he went from not

being able to sit up to sitting up for 2 hours at a time. It was amazing!

didn’t

walk until he was 7 y.o. and we did neurofeedback for about five years when he

was 12 y.o. He is now almost 21 and living in supported accommodation with two

other guys and he absolutely loves it.

Dr Katona’s

research at the time was showing that if he could start rehabilitation from 3

weeks of age (and definitely by 7 months), then he was “normalizing” 63% of

children with cerebral palsy by the time they started school. ( has

Angelman Syndrome, by the way, not CP).

My mother was a

federal parliamentarian at the time and had approval from the Prime Minister to

fund a trip to Australia for Dr Katona to explain his methods to Australian

neurologists. But professional jealousy struck big time and the neurologists

prevented his visit from ever occurring.

I just did a

search and found this paper about Dr Katona’s methods:

http://www.medigraphic.com/ingles/i-htms/i-plasticidad/i-prn2004/i-prn04-1_2/im-prn041_2h.htm

Mark

From: braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ]On Behalf

Of Suzanne Day

Sent: Wednesday, 30 July

2008 6:07 AM

To: braintrainer

Subject: Re:

Re: What does high Delta mean?

Rene,

I am not using HANDLE.

For the past 15 years I have been

using an approach from Dr Temple Fay, a neurologist, and kept learning from

other professionals. This approach uses movements that the baby does

from the womb and mainly during the first year of his life. These movements

are based on " primitive reflexes " that need to be integrated in the

SNS in order to provide better functions leading to efficient learning and

attention span. The movements activate the growth of the myeline that

wraps around the axons allowing the nervous influx to increase in speed.

It is a bottom-up approach, from the brain stem to frontal cortex

(of course the influx circulates back and forth).

Yes, I the use neurodevelopment

first, especially with children. From my perspective the neurofeedback

training has its place to acquire self-regulation and I use it after

neurodevelopment program (when parents request). However, the

changes are so important with the neurodevelopment that when I follow with the

neurofeedback training, it is for a short period of time. I see the NF as a

second step of the process. Neurofeedback works more from the cortex

down. I prefer to work at the brain stem up.

I just published

a DVD " Neurodevelopment Through Movements " that summarizes what

I have found the most helpful in my practice for most of the children I have

worked with. I tried to make it as " palatable " as possible for

parents who want to do something at home but have limited financial resources.

I do a longer program at my clinic. The DVD is 1 hour and 13

min. long with 3 parts. First half-hour explains the neurology involved

in this approach and gives results from different psychometric tests and qEEG

before and after 80 sessions. Then a 6 min segment gives a demonstration

of the 12 movements in sequence to give a good idea of what it will look like

when the parent masters well the program with the child. Fo the next

half-hour, I describe in details how to do each movement. The program can

take you from 12 minutes to half and hour per day. The DVD can be ordered

from us and is also on sale on the brain-trainer web site. Pete saw it

and was impressed.

Don't hesitate to ask questions.

I love to talk about.

Sincerely,

Suzanne Day

Neuropsychologist

(Québec and Alberta)

Psychological Associate

(Ontario)

suzanne.day@...

Ph.

and

F.

web: www.wisechoiceeducationalservices.com

On Jul 29, 2008, at 11:59 AM,

renekay97213 wrote:

Suzanne,

You wrote: " I use a serie of neurodevelopmental movements to re-

activate the

> primitive reflexes from the brain stem. I use this approach before

I

> use neurofeedback training with children with high delta and most

of

> the time the changes are so significant that I do not use the NF. "

Have you ever found it the other way around---that kids who do NF

don't need the neurodevelopmental movements?

My son did Handle first and has been doing Nf for 18 months now. I

think both of them worked together well. But, I know adoptive

families who are evaluating whether or not to do neuro reorg or nf.

Some have ventured to do both.

It's wonderful that you have training in both therapies---very

unusual from what I have seen. I would appreciate your perspective on

this.

Rene Kay

> > What is high and what is low, in terms of microvolts, remains a

> > puzzle to me, especially without a Q. Hopefully, however, at

least

> > one can make a educated guess. I realize that there are lots of

> > variables that impact amplitudes (e.g., sensor location, time of

day

> > etc., etc.). In ADHD, thanks to to the work of Monastra et al.,

> > there are at least some age-based norms to assist in

interpretation

> > of data.

> >

> > If, for example, at Cz and A1/A2, you have a 45 year-old adult

with

> > a delta amplitude of 13 uV, theta of 10 uV, alpha of 8 uv, low

beta

> > of 5 uV, beta of 5, and hi beta of 10 uV, WHAT SORT OF HYPOTHESES

OR

> > POSSIBLE MEANINGS WOULD YOU develop?

> >

> > .

> >

> > --

> > Van Deusen

> > pvdtlc@...

> > http://www.brain-trainer.com

> > 305/433-3160

> > The Learning Curve, Inc.

> >

> >

>

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Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1580 - Release Date: 7/29/2008 5:26

PM

Suzanne Day

Neuropsychologist (Québec and Alberta)

Psychological Associate (Ontario)

suzanne.day@...

Ph. and

F.

web: www.wisechoiceeducationalservices.com

No virus

found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1580 - Release Date: 7/29/2008 5:26

PM

[Guest guest]

Yes … I now work with the same population as you, but those

methods certainly worked well for , who doesn’t have CP either.

Mark

From:

braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf

Of Suzanne Day

Sent: Wednesday, 30 July 2008 10:15 AM

To: braintrainer

Subject: Re: Re: What does high Delta mean?

Mark,

Thank you so much for digging this article for me.

I do not work with Cerebral Palsy but with the ADHD, LD,

Autism, Asperger, etc but the principles are the same.

Suzanne

On Jul 29, 2008, at 7:51 PM, Mark Darling Neurotherapy

wrote:

Suzanne,

This sounds like

it might be similar to the work done by pediatric neurologist, Dr Ferenc

Katona, from Hungary. We travelled from here in Australia to Budapest in the

early 90s to take our son to see him. We had already done a Doman-Delacato type

patterning program for a couple of years that got him moving, then did the

Katona program for about a year. During the ten days there he went from not

being able to sit up to sitting up for 2 hours at a time. It was amazing!

didn’t

walk until he was 7 y.o. and we did neurofeedback for about five years when he

was 12 y.o. He is now almost 21 and living in supported accommodation with two

other guys and he absolutely loves it.

Dr Katona’s

research at the time was showing that if he could start rehabilitation from 3

weeks of age (and definitely by 7 months), then he was “normalizing” 63% of

children with cerebral palsy by the time they started school. ( has

Angelman Syndrome, by the way, not CP).

My mother was a

federal parliamentarian at the time and had approval from the Prime Minister to

fund a trip to Australia for Dr Katona to explain his methods to Australian

neurologists. But professional jealousy struck big time and the neurologists

prevented his visit from ever occurring.

I just did a

search and found this paper about Dr Katona’s methods:

http://www.medigraphic.com/ingles/i-htms/i-plasticidad/i-prn2004/i-prn04-1_2/im-prn041_2h.htm

Mark

From: braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ]On Behalf

Of Suzanne Day

Sent: Wednesday, 30 July

2008 6:07 AM

To: braintrainer

Subject: Re:

Re: What does high Delta mean?

Rene,

I am not using HANDLE.

For the past 15 years I have been

using an approach from Dr Temple Fay, a neurologist, and kept learning from

other professionals. This approach uses movements that the baby does

from the womb and mainly during the first year of his life. These movements

are based on " primitive reflexes " that need to be integrated in the

SNS in order to provide better functions leading to efficient learning and

attention span. The movements activate the growth of the myeline that

wraps around the axons allowing the nervous influx to increase in speed.

It is a bottom-up approach, from the brain stem to frontal cortex

(of course the influx circulates back and forth).

Yes, I the use neurodevelopment

first, especially with children. From my perspective the neurofeedback

training has its place to acquire self-regulation and I use it after

neurodevelopment program (when parents request). However, the

changes are so important with the neurodevelopment that when I follow with the

neurofeedback training, it is for a short period of time. I see the NF as a

second step of the process. Neurofeedback works more from the cortex

down. I prefer to work at the brain stem up.

I just published

a DVD " Neurodevelopment Through Movements " that summarizes what

I have found the most helpful in my practice for most of the children I have

worked with. I tried to make it as " palatable " as possible for

parents who want to do something at home but have limited financial resources.

I do a longer program at my clinic. The DVD is 1 hour and 13

min. long with 3 parts. First half-hour explains the neurology involved

in this approach and gives results from different psychometric tests and qEEG

before and after 80 sessions. Then a 6 min segment gives a demonstration

of the 12 movements in sequence to give a good idea of what it will look like

when the parent masters well the program with the child. Fo the next

half-hour, I describe in details how to do each movement. The program can

take you from 12 minutes to half and hour per day. The DVD can be ordered

from us and is also on sale on the brain-trainer web site. Pete saw it

and was impressed.

Don't hesitate to ask questions.

I love to talk about.

Sincerely,

Suzanne Day

Neuropsychologist

(Québec and Alberta)

Psychological Associate

(Ontario)

suzanne.day@...

Ph.

and

F.

web: www.wisechoiceeducationalservices.com

On Jul 29, 2008, at 11:59 AM,

renekay97213 wrote:

Suzanne,

You wrote: " I use a serie of neurodevelopmental movements to re-

activate the

> primitive reflexes from the brain stem. I use this approach before

I

> use neurofeedback training with children with high delta and most

of

> the time the changes are so significant that I do not use the NF. "

Have you ever found it the other way around---that kids who do NF

don't need the neurodevelopmental movements?

My son did Handle first and has been doing Nf for 18 months now. I

think both of them worked together well. But, I know adoptive

families who are evaluating whether or not to do neuro reorg or nf.

Some have ventured to do both.

It's wonderful that you have training in both therapies---very

unusual from what I have seen. I would appreciate your perspective on

this.

Rene Kay

> > What is high and what is low, in terms of microvolts, remains a

> > puzzle to me, especially without a Q. Hopefully, however, at

least

> > one can make a educated guess. I realize that there are lots of

> > variables that impact amplitudes (e.g., sensor location, time of

day

> > etc., etc.). In ADHD, thanks to to the work of Monastra et al.,

> > there are at least some age-based norms to assist in

interpretation

> > of data.

> >

> > If, for example, at Cz and A1/A2, you have a 45 year-old adult

with

> > a delta amplitude of 13 uV, theta of 10 uV, alpha of 8 uv, low

beta

> > of 5 uV, beta of 5, and hi beta of 10 uV, WHAT SORT OF HYPOTHESES

OR

> > POSSIBLE MEANINGS WOULD YOU develop?

> >

> > .

> >

> > --

> > Van Deusen

> > pvdtlc@...

> > http://www.brain-trainer.com

> > 305/433-3160

> > The Learning Curve, Inc.

> >

> >

>

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1580 - Release Date: 7/29/2008 5:26

PM

Suzanne Day

Neuropsychologist (Québec and Alberta)

Psychological Associate (Ontario)

suzanne.day@...

Ph. and

F.

web: www.wisechoiceeducationalservices.com

No virus

found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1580 - Release Date: 7/29/2008 5:26

PM

[Guest guest]

Mark,

Thank you for this post, especially for mentioning that this gave further gains after having done the Doman-Delacato approach. I've always wondered how these sorts of things stack up against each other, and the extent that they might be additive vs. duplicative. 's story just keeps better and better. Wow!

Merrifield

-------------- Original message from "Mark Darling Neurotherapy" : --------------

Suzanne,

This sounds like it might be similar to the work done by pediatric neurologist, Dr Ferenc Katona, from Hungary. We travelled from here in Australia to Budapest in the early 90s to take our son to see him. We had already done a Doman-Delacato type patterning program for a couple of years that got him moving, then did the Katona program for about a year. During the ten days there he went from not being able to sit up to sitting up for 2 hours at a time. It was amazing!

didn’t walk until he was 7 y.o. and we did neurofeedback for about five years when he was 12 y.o. He is now almost 21 and living in supported accommodation with two other guys and he absolutely loves it.

Dr Katona’s research at the time was showing that if he could start rehabilitation from 3 weeks of age (and definitely by 7 months), then he was “normalizing†63% of children with cerebral palsy by the time they started school. ( has Angelman Syndrome, by the way, not CP).

My mother was a federal parliamentarian at the time and had approval from the Prime Minister to fund a trip to Australia for Dr Katona to explain his methods to Australian neurologists. But professional jealousy struck big time and the neurologists prevented his visit from ever occurring.

I just did a search and found this paper about Dr Katona’s methods:

http://www.medigraphic.com/ingles/i-htms/i-plasticidad/i-prn2004/i-prn04-1_2/im-prn041_2h.htm

Mark

From: braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf Of Suzanne DaySent: Wednesday, 30 July 2008 6:07 AMTo: braintrainer Subject: Re: Re: What does high Delta mean?

Rene,

I am not using HANDLE.

For the past 15 years I have been using an approach from Dr Temple Fay, a neurologist, and kept learning from other professionals. This approach uses movements that the baby does from the womb and mainly during the first year of his life. These movements are based on "primitive reflexes" that need to be integrated in the SNS in order to provide better functions leading to efficient learning and attention span. The movements activate the growth of the myeline that wraps around the axons allowing the nervous influx to increase in speed. It is a bottom-up approach, from the brain stem to frontal cortex (of course the influx circulates back and forth).

Yes, I the use neurodevelopment first, especially with children. From my perspective the neurofeedback training has its place to acquire self-regulation and I use it after neurodevelopment program (when parents request). However, the changes are so important with the neurodevelopment that when I follow with the neurofeedback training, it is for a short period of time. I see the NF as a second step of the process. Neurofeedback works more from the cortex down. I prefer to work at the brain stem up.

I just published a DVD "Neurodevelopment Through Movements" that summarizes what I have found the most helpful in my practice for most of the children I have worked with. I tried to make it as "palatable" as possible for parents who want to do something at home but have limited financial resources. I do a longer program at my clinic. The DVD is 1 hour and 13 min. long with 3 parts. First half-hour explains the neurology involved in this approach and gives results from different psychometric tests and qEEG before and after 80 sessions. Then a 6 min segment gives a demonstration of the 12 movements in sequence to give a good idea of what it will look like when the parent masters well the program with the child. Fo the next half-hour, I describe in details how to do each movement. The program can take you from 12 minutes to half and hour per day. The DVD can be ordered from us and is also on sale on the brain-trainer web site. Pete saw it and was impressed.

Don't hesitate to ask questions. I love to talk about.

Sincerely,

Suzanne Day

Neuropsychologist (Québec and Alberta)

Psychological Associate (Ontario)

suzanne.dayrogers

Ph. and

F.

web: www.wisechoiceeducationalservices.com

Suzanne,You wrote: "I use a serie of neurodevelopmental movements to re-activate the > primitive reflexes from the brain stem. I use this approach before I > use neurofeedback training with children with high delta and most of > the time the changes are so significant that I do not use the NF."Have you ever found it the other way around---that kids who do NF don't need the neurodevelopmental movements? My son did Handle first and has been doing Nf for 18 months now. I think both of them worked together well. But, I know adoptive families who are evaluating whether or not to do neuro reorg or nf. Some have ventured to do both.It's wonderful that you have training in both therapies---very unusual from what I have seen. I would appreciate your perspective on this.Rene Kay> > What is high and what is low, in terms of microvolts, remains a > > puzzle to me, especially without a Q. Hopefully, however, at least > > one can make a educated guess. I realize that there are lots of > > variables that impact amplitudes (e.g., sensor location, time of day > > etc., etc.). In ADHD, thanks to to the work of Monastra et al., > > there are at least some age-based norms to assist in interpretation > > of data.> >> > If, for example, at Cz and A1/A2, you have a 45 year-old adult with > > a delta amplitude of 13 uV, theta of 10 uV, alpha of 8 uv, low beta > > of 5 uV, beta of 5, and hi beta of 10 uV, WHAT SORT OF HYPOTHESES OR > > POSSIBLE MEANINGS WOULD YOU develop?> >> > .> >> > -- > > Van Deusen> > pvdtlc@...> > http://www.brain-trainer.com> > 305/433-3160> > The Learning Curve, Inc.> >> >>

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.comVersion: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.7/1580 - Release Date: 7/29/2008 5:26 PM

[Guest guest]

Suzanne,

Yes I can see you do understand my teen. I suspect my teen does have some of the neurodevelpmental movement issues due to what I experienced during pregnancy. My question is this, before I spent yet another hit of money to help her is there some way to help determine this would help her, past the basic checklists. As you said it may be very difficult to get her to do the excercises consistently so I am sure I will need to determine in my mind it's a must have before I will be able to justify the expense and the effort involved.

From: Van Deusen <pvdtlcgmail (DOT) com>Subject: Re: Re: What does high Delta mean?To: braintrainer@ yahoogroups. comDate: Tuesday, July 29, 2008, 1:33 PM

For home trainers, or pros who wish to learn more about this, Suzanne has made an excellent DVD which combines information of what neurodevelopmental repatterning is and how it works--and contains demonstrations with explanations of the actual exercises that can be done at home. You can find it athttp://www.brain- trainer.com/ software/ adjunctproduct. html .

On several occasions I've worked with Suzanne to use the TLC to demonstrate pre and post patterns with the exercise program between the measurements. More importantly, as I always say, the real-world effects are what we really care about producing, and the exercise program does lead the brain through developmental movements that it may have missed at the appropriate developmental stages--but which are still effective, given the brain's inherent plasticity, even years after they "should" have occurred

[Guest guest]

Dear Suzanne,

I am shocked to read that it only takes 12-30 minutes a day! I live

in Portland Oregon and the families that I know who go through the

Northwest Neurodevelopmental training Center (a neuro reorg site)

describe that the neuro program can take 4 hours daily to start with

and there is a huge emotional drain of getting your child to

cooperate, and the stress of doing the NNTC program is unimaginable

for most. Families also report a very difficult (almost unbearable)

regression stage when they start the program. Maybe you use a

different program?

My son has benefited greatly from neurofeedback so that his emotional

regulation has improved so much, but there is still more to heal. I

think it would be easier to do an exercise program now that he is

more regulated, and he is still very young (6).

My biggest hesitation is that I personally know how difficult

the " secondary stress " to the parent can be. When we did the other

(Handle) exercises, I suffered a stress disorder (adrenal fatigue)

that took a long time to recover from, and I finally have. So, I

don't want to go backwards. But, now we have organized our life to

doing NF 5 times a week, so I might consider adding your program.

I really appreciate that you have been trained in both neurofeedback

and neuroreorg. This is an area of interest of mine, but I just

haven't found anyone who has both perspectives.

I will try to email you off line.

Rene Kay

>

> Rene,

> I am not using HANDLE.

> For the past 15 years I have been using an approach from Dr Temple

> Fay, a neurologist, and kept learning from other professionals.

This

> approach uses movements that the baby does from the womb and

mainly

> during the first year of his life. These movements are based on

> " primitive reflexes " that need to be integrated in the SNS in order

to

> provide better functions leading to efficient learning and

attention

> span. The movements activate the growth of the myeline that wraps

> around the axons allowing the nervous influx to increase in speed.

It

> is a bottom-up approach, from the brain stem to frontal cortex (of

> course the influx circulates back and forth).

>

> Yes, I the use neurodevelopment first, especially with children.

From

> my perspective the neurofeedback training has its place to acquire

> self-regulation and I use it after neurodevelopment program (when

> parents request). However, the changes are so important with the

> neurodevelopment that when I follow with the neurofeedback

training,

> it is for a short period of time. I see the NF as a second step of

the

> process. Neurofeedback works more from the cortex down. I

prefer

> to work at the brain stem up.

>

> I just published a DVD " Neurodevelopment Through Movements "

that

> summarizes what I have found the most helpful in my practice for

most

> of the children I have worked with. I tried to make it

as " palatable "

> as possible for parents who want to do something at home but have

> limited financial resources. I do a longer program at my clinic.

The

> DVD is 1 hour and 13 min. long with 3 parts. First half-hour

> explains the neurology involved in this approach and gives results

> from different psychometric tests and qEEG before and after 80

> sessions. Then a 6 min segment gives a demonstration of the 12

> movements in sequence to give a good idea of what it will look

like

> when the parent masters well the program with the child. Fo the

next

> half-hour, I describe in details how to do each movement. The

program

> can take you from 12 minutes to half and hour per day. The DVD can

be

> ordered from us and is also on sale on the brain-trainer web

site.

> Pete saw it and was impressed.

>

> Don't hesitate to ask questions. I love to talk about.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Suzanne Day

> Neuropsychologist (Québec and Alberta)

> Psychological Associate (Ontario)

> suzanne.day@...

> Ph. and

> F.

> web: www.wisechoiceeducationalservices.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Suzanne,

I am shocked to read that it only takes 12-30 minutes a day! I live

in Portland Oregon and the families that I know who go through the

Northwest Neurodevelopmental training Center (a neuro reorg site)

describe that the neuro program can take 4 hours daily to start with

and there is a huge emotional drain of getting your child to

cooperate, and the stress of doing the NNTC program is unimaginable

for most. Families also report a very difficult (almost unbearable)

regression stage when they start the program. Maybe you use a

different program?

My son has benefited greatly from neurofeedback so that his emotional

regulation has improved so much, but there is still more to heal. I

think it would be easier to do an exercise program now that he is

more regulated, and he is still very young (6).

My biggest hesitation is that I personally know how difficult

the " secondary stress " to the parent can be. When we did the other

(Handle) exercises, I suffered a stress disorder (adrenal fatigue)

that took a long time to recover from, and I finally have. So, I

don't want to go backwards. But, now we have organized our life to

doing NF 5 times a week, so I might consider adding your program.

I really appreciate that you have been trained in both neurofeedback

and neuroreorg. This is an area of interest of mine, but I just

haven't found anyone who has both perspectives.

I will try to email you off line.

Rene Kay

>

> Rene,

> I am not using HANDLE.

> For the past 15 years I have been using an approach from Dr Temple

> Fay, a neurologist, and kept learning from other professionals.

This

> approach uses movements that the baby does from the womb and

mainly

> during the first year of his life. These movements are based on

> " primitive reflexes " that need to be integrated in the SNS in order

to

> provide better functions leading to efficient learning and

attention

> span. The movements activate the growth of the myeline that wraps

> around the axons allowing the nervous influx to increase in speed.

It

> is a bottom-up approach, from the brain stem to frontal cortex (of

> course the influx circulates back and forth).

>

> Yes, I the use neurodevelopment first, especially with children.

From

> my perspective the neurofeedback training has its place to acquire

> self-regulation and I use it after neurodevelopment program (when

> parents request). However, the changes are so important with the

> neurodevelopment that when I follow with the neurofeedback

training,

> it is for a short period of time. I see the NF as a second step of

the

> process. Neurofeedback works more from the cortex down. I

prefer

> to work at the brain stem up.

>

> I just published a DVD " Neurodevelopment Through Movements "

that

> summarizes what I have found the most helpful in my practice for

most

> of the children I have worked with. I tried to make it

as " palatable "

> as possible for parents who want to do something at home but have

> limited financial resources. I do a longer program at my clinic.

The

> DVD is 1 hour and 13 min. long with 3 parts. First half-hour

> explains the neurology involved in this approach and gives results

> from different psychometric tests and qEEG before and after 80

> sessions. Then a 6 min segment gives a demonstration of the 12

> movements in sequence to give a good idea of what it will look

like

> when the parent masters well the program with the child. Fo the

next

> half-hour, I describe in details how to do each movement. The

program

> can take you from 12 minutes to half and hour per day. The DVD can

be

> ordered from us and is also on sale on the brain-trainer web

site.

> Pete saw it and was impressed.

>

> Don't hesitate to ask questions. I love to talk about.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Suzanne Day

> Neuropsychologist (Québec and Alberta)

> Psychological Associate (Ontario)

> suzanne.day@...

> Ph. and

> F.

> web: www.wisechoiceeducationalservices.com

>

>

[Guest guest]

No worries . I’m just sitting in Tom Collura’s workshop on

live z score training at the Applied Neuroscience Society of Australasia annual

conference … the wonders of modern technology!

Mark

From:

braintrainer [mailto:braintrainer ] On Behalf

Of Merrifield, Ph.D.

Sent: Wednesday, 30 July 2008 10:41 PM

To: braintrainer

Subject: RE: Re: What does high Delta mean?

Mark,

Thank you for this post, especially for mentioning that this

gave further gains after having done the Doman-Delacato approach.

I've always wondered how these sorts of things stack up against each

other, and the extent that they might be additive vs. duplicative.

's story just keeps better and better. Wow!

Merrifield

--------- Re: Re: What does high Delta mean?

Rene,

I

am not using HANDLE.

For

the past 15 years I have been using an approach from Dr Temple Fay, a

neurologist, and kept learning from other professionals. This approach

uses movements that the baby does from the womb and mainly during the

first year of his life. These movements are based on " primitive

reflexes " that need to be integrated in the SNS in order to provide better

functions leading to efficient learning and attention span. The movements

activate the growth of the myeline that wraps around the axons allowing the

nervous influx to increase in speed. It is a bottom-up approach, from

the brain stem to frontal cortex (of course the influx circulates back and

forth).

Yes,

I the use neurodevelopment first, especially with children. From my

perspective the neurofeedback training has its place to acquire

self-regulation and I use it after neurodevelopment program (when parents

request). However, the changes are so important with the neurodevelopment

that when I follow with the neurofeedback training, it is for a short period of

time. I see the NF as a second step of the process. Neurofeedback works

more from the cortex down. I prefer to work at the brain stem up.

I

just published a DVD " Neurodevelopment Through

Movements " that summarizes what I have found the most helpful in my

practice for most of the children I have worked with. I tried to make it

as " palatable " as possible for parents who want to do something at

home but have limited financial resources. I do a longer program at my

clinic. The DVD is 1 hour and 13 min. long with 3 parts.

First half-hour explains the neurology involved in this approach and

gives results from different psychometric tests and qEEG before and after 80

sessions. Then a 6 min segment gives a demonstration of the 12 movements

in sequence to give a good idea of what it will look like when the parent

masters well the program with the child. Fo the next half-hour, I

describe in details how to do each movement. The program can take you

from 12 minutes to half and hour per day. The DVD can be ordered from us

and is also on sale on the brain-trainer web site. Pete saw it and was

impressed.

Don't

hesitate to ask questions. I love to talk about.

Sincerely,

Suzanne Day

Neuropsychologist (Québec and Alberta)

Psychological Associate (Ontario)

suzanne.day@...

Ph. and

F.

web: www.wisechoiceeducationalservices.com

On

Jul 29, 2008, at 11:59 AM, renekay97213 wrote:

Suzanne,

You wrote: " I use a serie of neurodevelopmental movements to re-

activate the

> primitive reflexes from the brain stem. I use this approach before

I

> use neurofeedback training with children with high delta and most

of

> the time the changes are so significant that I do not use the NF. "

Have you ever found it the other way around---that kids who do NF

don't need the neurodevelopmental movements?

My son did Handle first and has been doing Nf for 18 months now. I

think both of them worked together well. But, I know adoptive

families who are evaluating whether or not to do neuro reorg or nf.

Some have ventured to do both.

It's wonderful that you have training in both therapies---very

unusual from what I have seen. I would appreciate your perspective on

this.

Rene Kay

> > What is high and what is low, in terms of microvolts, remains a

> > puzzle to me, especially without a Q. Hopefully, however, at

least

> > one can make a educated guess. I realize that there are lots of

> > variables that impact amplitudes (e.g., sensor location, time of

day

> > etc., etc.). In ADHD, thanks to to the work of Monastra et al.,

> > there are at least some age-based norms to assist in

interpretation

> > of data.

> >

> > If, for example, at Cz and A1/A2, you have a 45 year-old adult

with

> > a delta amplitude of 13 uV, theta of 10 uV, alpha of 8 uv, low

beta

> > of 5 uV, beta of 5, and hi beta of 10 uV, WHAT SORT OF HYPOTHESES

OR

> > POSSIBLE MEANINGS WOULD YOU develop?

> >

> > .

> >

> > --

> > Van Deusen

> > pvdtlc@...

> > http://www.brain-trainer.com

> > 305/433-3160

> > The Learning Curve, Inc.

> >

> >

>

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