Re: Re: POLITICS sexual assualt (was economics and subsidizing baby-making (was Gender))

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

----------------------------

>

June 30, 2004

>>>Sheesh...maybe it was the same guy who attacked me! I was 18 and was on a

train from Italy to Australia when it happened. He was an Australian border

guard.<<<

Ummmm... Don't you mean Austrian?

Cheers,

Tas'.

June 30, 2004

> Re: Re: POLITICS sexual assualt (was economics and

>subsidizing baby-making (was Gender))

>

>>>>Sheesh...maybe it was the same guy who attacked me! I was 18

>and was on a

>train from Italy to Australia when it happened. He was an Australian border

>guard.<<<

>

>Ummmm... Don't you mean Austrian?

Oops! LOL! Yes, and I also meant " Austria " not " Australia " ! Sorry - i dont'

expect any train to go from Italy to *Australia*. Hahaha!

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

----------------------------

>

June 30, 2004

in response to Suze's post:

>

> Sheesh...maybe it was the same guy who attacked me! I was 18 and was on a

> train from Italy to Australia when it happened. He was an Australian

border

> guard. What a coincidence...(sorry you had to go through it too!)

Could be, but I'm pretty sure this guy was Italian. My girlfriend who was

with me on the trip still talks about how dramatic the whole scene was--he

pulled out his penis and started rubbing it on me while I was asleep and I

jumped up, started screaming at him and kicked him (with force!) out of the

train compartment. I SHOULD have thrown his bag out of the window of the

moving train, but I slammed it on his head instead. All in all, it was a

triumphant moment. I have had scarier encounters, though, too, but I do

thank God I was never raped or suffered molestation as a child--as this

seems to be so bloody common.

>

Ha! Sure,

> I'd love to get together with a man more than twice my age who thinks it's

> OK to grab the private parts of a sick, weak and vulnerable woman. LOL! I

> mean, geez...

Eeeewww gross. I don't want to get into a battle of the sexes or anything,

but men can be SO STUPID sometimes. I mean, what an idiot! Granted, he was

a total creep, but to ask you out AFTER he had grabbed your breast?????

> I even have a male

> >friend who was raped and now is HIV positive. Now THAT'S scary.

>

> That's gotta be about the worse thing that could happen from a rape. Could

> that legally be considered manslaughter or murder or something if he dies

as

> a result? The poor man...my heart goes out to him. I'm afraid I might be

> consumed with bitterness and hate had this happened to me...(which would

> only make life worse, of course).

He never talks about it and I can hardly imagine what it must be like.

Luckily, he's a very talented and successful actor (not famous, but always

working) and that seems to sustain him pretty well.

....better start

> >another sweater.

>

> LOL! Sounds like a good way to calm the nerves. Me, I just knock back a

few

> beers, and I'm good :-)

Oh, I do that too LOL!!! But I'm partial to Pouilly-Fuisse or Jack

s...

July 2, 2004

> Re: Re: POLITICS sexual assualt (was economics and

>subsidizing baby-making (was Gender))

>

>in response to Suze's post:

>

>>

>> Sheesh...maybe it was the same guy who attacked me! I was 18 and was on a

>> train from Italy to Australia when it happened. He was an Australian

>border

>> guard. What a coincidence...(sorry you had to go through it too!)

>

>Could be, but I'm pretty sure this guy was Italian. My girlfriend who was

>with me on the trip still talks about how dramatic the whole scene was--he

>pulled out his penis and started rubbing it on me while I was asleep and I

>jumped up, started screaming at him and kicked him (with force!) out of the

>train compartment. I SHOULD have thrown his bag out of the window of the

>moving train, but I slammed it on his head instead. All in all, it was a

>triumphant moment. I have had scarier encounters, though, too, but I do

>thank God I was never raped or suffered molestation as a child--as this

>seems to be so bloody common.

Geez, that IS a pretty dramatic scene! Kudos to you for reacting so strongly

and quickly, and at such a tender age. I'll tell you, even as an adult I

have sometimes frozen up when a man has grabbed my private parts and only

afterwards, wished I'd had the presence of mind to react similarly to how

you did. I have reacted that way on some occassions, but not all. I don't

know why - sometimes I was just paralyzed and unable to react. Of course, I

was younger then. If anything like that happens again, I'm pretty sure the

guy will be really sorry he tried anything...

For example, one time I went into a bar/breakfast place in Madrid near the

train station. I had to use the bathroom, which turned out to be in this

dingy, dungeon-like basement. Some guy apparently followed me in there and

when I came out of the stall, I saw him standing there holding his wanker

out. I don't remember if he was playing with it or was trying to get my

attention or what. But I was frightened, yet didn't have the presence of

mind to immediately take off. Instead, I apprehensively went to the sink and

washed my hands pretending not to notice a man two feet away holding his

wiener out. Then I quickly left the room and he began chasing me. I

remember running up the stairs, and feeling him grabbing at my backpack from

behind. Luckily I was faster than he was.

However, another time I was in a bar in Philly, and my friend and I were

walking to the bathroom and some guy grabbed my ass. I swung around and saw

three guys standing there. I was fuming (by this time *really* tired of men

thinking my body is public property for their grabbing pleasure) and I asked

which one did it. One guy pointed to another and I immediately slapped his

face as hard as I could. I have no idea if it was the right guy, but I hope

so! LOL!

Anyway, I think you reacted great when you were 16. Wish I had done so on

every occassion myself :-(

>

>>

>Ha! Sure,

>> I'd love to get together with a man more than twice my age who

>thinks it's

>> OK to grab the private parts of a sick, weak and vulnerable woman. LOL! I

>> mean, geez...

>

>Eeeewww gross. I don't want to get into a battle of the sexes or anything,

>but men can be SO STUPID sometimes. I mean, what an idiot!

>Granted, he was

>a total creep, but to ask you out AFTER he had grabbed your breast?????

I think Moron with a capital " M " wouldn't begin to describe this jerk.

>

>Oh, I do that too LOL!!! But I'm partial to Pouilly-Fuisse or Jack

>s...

>

Well, if I'm ever in NY we should get together and knock back a few while

commiserating on some of these more repugnant experiences in our lives :-)

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

----------------------------

July 2, 2004

----- Original Message -----

From: " Suze Fisher " <s.fisher22@...>

>

> Geez, that IS a pretty dramatic scene! Kudos to you for reacting so

strongly

> and quickly, and at such a tender age.

Thanks! I've done a lot of complaining about my parents (to shrinks and my

husband, mainly...) over the years but all in all I think they did a pretty

good job--seeing as my self esteem was intact enough to have such a strong

" fight or flight " reaction in this instance.

> I saw him standing there holding his wanker

> out. I don't remember if he was playing with it or was trying to get my

> attention or what.

What is with men exposing thier privates in public????? I mean, let's face

it, unless I'm in love with a guy, I don't find that body part very

attractive!!! I do believe men respond to *visual* stimulation more than

women. Maybe they imagine that we'll be turned on because *they* would like

to see us expose ourselves in public (this gets back to the breastfeeding

issue...) But actually, I doubt that men who expose themselves are really

after a sexual response from the women they target--it's more about scaring

us, keeping us in our " place " so to speak. And in your case, he succeeded.

What a jerkoff (pun intended).

>One guy pointed to another and I immediately slapped his

> face as hard as I could. I have no idea if it was the right guy, but I

hope

> so! LOL!

Good for you!

>

> Well, if I'm ever in NY we should get together and knock back a few while

> commiserating on some of these more repugnant experiences in our lives :-)

Any time! Actually, I'm thinking of going to the conference in

October...are you going?? Also, I have a cousin in your neck of the woods

that I'd like to visit, and if I do, I'll definitely give you a holler.

July 2, 2004

> Re: Re: POLITICS sexual assualt (was economics and

>subsidizing baby-making (was Gender))

>

>----- Original Message -----

>From: " Suze Fisher " <s.fisher22@...>

>>

>> Geez, that IS a pretty dramatic scene! Kudos to you for reacting so

>strongly

>> and quickly, and at such a tender age.

>

>Thanks! I've done a lot of complaining about my parents (to shrinks and my

>husband, mainly...) over the years but all in all I think they

>did a pretty

>good job--seeing as my self esteem was intact enough to have such a strong

> " fight or flight " reaction in this instance.

Seems like it. I think my parents did a great job of instilling self-esteem

in me too, but I think I internalized a lot of cultural messages that were

at odds with my self-esteem (plus I had a full-time bully in my childhood

who did everything to reduce my self-esteem that he could).

But actually, I doubt that men who expose themselves are really

>after a sexual response from the women they target--it's more about scaring

>us, keeping us in our " place " so to speak. And in your case, he succeeded.

>What a jerkoff (pun intended).

That's the way I've felt every time this happened to me - vulnerable and

intimidated. I don't recall one time that *I* was bigger or stronger than

the man doing this to me, so I guess it's a natural response to someone

larger and stronger than you who is agressing. You never know exactly WHAT

they're intentions are either, or how far they are willing to go in

intimidating you or harming you.

>> Well, if I'm ever in NY we should get together and knock back a few while

>> commiserating on some of these more repugnant experiences in our

>lives :-)

>

>Any time! Actually, I'm thinking of going to the conference in

>October...are you going?? Also, I have a cousin in your neck of the woods

>that I'd like to visit, and if I do, I'll definitely give you a holler.

>

I would LOVE to go to the conference, but I'm not sure I'll make it this

year. I will try though. But if you are up this way, we should definitely

get together! :-)

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

----------------------------

July 2, 2004

----- Original Message -----

From: " Suze Fisher " <s.fisher22@...>

< >

> Seems like it. I think my parents did a great job of instilling

self-esteem

> in me too, but I think I internalized a lot of cultural messages that were

> at odds with my self-esteem (plus I had a full-time bully in my childhood

> who did everything to reduce my self-esteem that he could).

Oh--sorry if I insinuated that your parents didn't do a good job! Yes,

there are SOOOOO many factors that determine how we behave. On another trip

I was so scared by a man staying in our hotel that I insisted on sharing a

single bed with my girlfriend (and this was in the tropics!) This guy

didn't actually *do* anything--but I consider verbal threats to be just as

insidious. I kept my swiss army knife out at all times and we actually

ended up leaving the town because of him.

>

You never know exactly WHAT

> they're intentions are either, or how far they are willing to go in

> intimidating you or harming you.

This is true--but I do think my " danger meter " is pretty well tuned. I

encounter damaged people every day (mainly on the subway) and I get a sense

*right away* if I think they are truly dangerous and act accordingly. But

you don't always have control over the situation (like when you were trapped

in the basement of that bar...) And if there is a weapon involved, that

changes the rules of the game completely. I used to think that I would

rather die than survive a rape, but I've know too many strong, fantastic

women who have survived horrible things to have such a fatalistic attitude.

>

> I would LOVE to go to the conference, but I'm not sure I'll make it this

> year. I will try though. But if you are up this way, we should definitely

> get together! :-)

Deal.

July 2, 2004

> Re: Re: POLITICS sexual assualt (was economics and

>subsidizing baby-making (was Gender))

>

>----- Original Message -----

>From: " Suze Fisher " <s.fisher22@...>

>< >

>

>> Seems like it. I think my parents did a great job of instilling

>self-esteem

>> in me too, but I think I internalized a lot of cultural messages

>that were

>> at odds with my self-esteem (plus I had a full-time bully in my childhood

>> who did everything to reduce my self-esteem that he could).

>

>Oh--sorry if I insinuated that your parents didn't do a good job!

Oh, no problem - I didn't think you were :-)

Yes,

>there are SOOOOO many factors that determine how we behave. On

>another trip

>I was so scared by a man staying in our hotel that I insisted on sharing a

>single bed with my girlfriend (and this was in the tropics!) This guy

>didn't actually *do* anything--but I consider verbal threats to be just as

>insidious. I kept my swiss army knife out at all times and we actually

>ended up leaving the town because of him.

It was great that you had someone with you. I traveled alone, although I did

meet up with other travelers and we often traveled a bit together. This was

MUCH more enjoyable than traveling alone.

>You never know exactly WHAT

>> they're intentions are either, or how far they are willing to go in

>> intimidating you or harming you.

>

>This is true--but I do think my " danger meter " is pretty well tuned. I

>encounter damaged people every day (mainly on the subway) and I get a sense

>*right away* if I think they are truly dangerous and act accordingly.

Yep. I think it really helps if you grew up or live in a city, where you're

danger meter gets honed through regular contact with potentially dangerous

folks. When I traveled through Europe I was a very naive country girl, very

trusting, and with a danger meter that had not been tested much at all. That

is my biggest regret - not having a developed a strong attitude and sense of

how to react to some of the situations I encountered. Well, I know now! :-)

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

----------------------------

July 2, 2004

:

>>Eeeewww gross. I don't want to get into a battle of the sexes or anything,

>>but men can be SO STUPID sometimes. I mean, what an idiot!

>>Granted, he was

>>a total creep, but to ask you out AFTER he had grabbed your breast?????

>

>I think Moron with a capital " M " wouldn't begin to describe this jerk.

Actually I think it makes PERFECT sense. I mean, he had to get

a sample to make sure you were worthy of going out with

him, right? <G>.

-- Heidi Jean

July 3, 2004

>>>Yep. I think it really helps if you grew up or live in a city, where you're

danger meter gets honed through regular contact with potentially dangerous

folks. When I traveled through Europe I was a very naive country girl, very

trusting, and with a danger meter that had not been tested much at all. That

is my biggest regret - not having a developed a strong attitude and sense of

how to react to some of the situations I encountered. Well, I know now! :-)<<<

I'm getting a bit worried about my daughter now. She's intending to travel

through Europe and Egypt in a couple of years when she's 18. Her danger meter

has never really been tested either. I wonder if I can convince her to take self

defence classes before she goes.

Cheers,

Tas'.

July 3, 2004

> Re: Re: POLITICS sexual assualt (was economics and

>subsidizing baby-making (was Gender))

>

>>>>Yep. I think it really helps if you grew up or live in a city,

>where you're

>danger meter gets honed through regular contact with potentially dangerous

>folks. When I traveled through Europe I was a very naive country girl, very

>trusting, and with a danger meter that had not been tested much at

>all. That

>is my biggest regret - not having a developed a strong attitude

>and sense of

>how to react to some of the situations I encountered. Well, I know

>now! :-)<<<

>

>I'm getting a bit worried about my daughter now. She's intending

>to travel through Europe and Egypt in a couple of years when she's

>18. Her danger meter has never really been tested either. I wonder

>if I can convince her to take self defence classes before she goes.

>

>Cheers,

>Tas'.

Based on my own experience, I'd say that's a great idea. But my experiences

happened over 20 years ago - I have NO idea if travelling in Europe is still

as potentially difficult for a young woman today. In any case, I think it's

much safer to travel with a companion. And if she won't take a self-defense

class, teach her " attitude " if she doesn't already have one. I didn't and it

took living in an urban environment, after my experiences, to develop one.

You could even enact possible scenarios as and I have described and

have her act out what her reaction would be. You could go over possible

strategies with her on how to deal with such situations. I didn't have ANY

preparation, but in retrospect think it would've really helped.

As far as the various European countries go, IME the further north you go,

the safer. I had the most problems in Spain, Italy and Greece. None in

Germany, minor one in France, and did have one with the *Austrian* border

guard in Austria. I was also in Portugal and don't recall any incidences

there, but it was a very uncomfortable experience for me because when I

walked down the street, virtually every man in sight hissed at me. I felt

like I was in a snake den....SSSSSSSSSSS....ssssssssss....SSSSSSSSSS. That

is their equivalent of American men whistling at a woman. There were few

women on the streets in Portugal (or Greece, for that matter) and I was

blond, so really stuck out. Anyway, it was a rather shocking experience to

draw so much attention by simply walking down the street, and even more so

to be hissed at constantly. Not pleasant.

I think I've heard from other women as well that they've had more problems

in the Southern countries, FWIW.

Feel free to share my posts with your daughter too, if you think that would

help at all. And if she has any questions, she can write me direct.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

----------------------------

>

July 3, 2004

> RE: Re: POLITICS sexual assualt (was economics and

>subsidizing baby-making (was Gender))

>

> :

>>>Eeeewww gross. I don't want to get into a battle of the sexes

>or anything,

>>>but men can be SO STUPID sometimes. I mean, what an idiot!

>>>Granted, he was

>>>a total creep, but to ask you out AFTER he had grabbed your breast?????

>>

>>I think Moron with a capital " M " wouldn't begin to describe this jerk.

>

>Actually I think it makes PERFECT sense. I mean, he had to get

>a sample to make sure you were worthy of going out with

>him, right? <G>.

>

>-- Heidi Jean

LOL! Uh, yeh sure. The Glutenatorship is so sensible :-)

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

----------------------------

>

July 4, 2004

>>>I think it's

much safer to travel with a companion. And if she won't take a self-defense

class, teach her " attitude " if she doesn't already have one<<<

She's intending to go with a friend. I wouldn't be very happy at all if she

wanted to go alone. She is quite strong willed and self-assured, so I guess

that's good.

>>>Feel free to share my posts with your daughter too, if you think that would

help at all. And if she has any questions, she can write me direct.<<<

Thanks for that. I was thinking I'd cut-n-paste the relevant parts of the thread

and let her read it.

Cheers,

Tas'.

July 6, 2004

Tas'

I think Suze has some great ideas below. But I hope your daughter doesn't

avoid southern European countries, as there are some wonderful places there!

Yes, Italian and Spanish men tend to be more " forward " with or

" appreciative " of (ugh) the opposite sex, but I don't know if this

translates into higher rape statistics--this would be an interesting study,

methinks.

I think self-defense classes are good, but be sure they are of the " model

mugging " sort that simulate real attacks. Women who take karate et al don't

practice with the " fight or flight " instinct in mind. I also think that

it's much more about *attitude* than physical skill level, as Suze mentions.

Be aware! Be aware of your surroundings and look like you know where you

are going (even if you are lost). Don't drink too much in unfamiliar

situations. If you sense any kind of danger, LISTEN to your intuition!

It's not in your head!

It's great that she will be traveling with a friend. I traveled all over

Europe for months with a girlfriend when we were 15 and 16 years old and

encountered relatively little trouble, all things considered. That trip was

unforgettable, and I am very grateful that my parents allowed me to go. We

shouldn't make all decisions based on fear, but we should be aware and as

prepared as we can be.

July 7, 2004

Thanks for that, .

You're right about fear and being aware. I did cut-n-paste the thread and gave

it to her to read. I don't know if she has yet - she hasn't said anything. I

told her I wasn't trying to turn her off going, just making her aware of some of

the possible dangers.

Cheers,

Tas'.

Re: Re: POLITICS sexual assualt (was economics and subsidizing

baby-making (was Gender))

Tas'

I think Suze has some great ideas below. But I hope your daughter doesn't

avoid southern European countries, as there are some wonderful places there!

Yes, Italian and Spanish men tend to be more " forward " with or

" appreciative " of (ugh) the opposite sex, but I don't know if this

translates into higher rape statistics--this would be an interesting study,

methinks.

I think self-defense classes are good, but be sure they are of the " model

mugging " sort that simulate real attacks. Women who take karate et al don't

practice with the " fight or flight " instinct in mind. I also think that

it's much more about *attitude* than physical skill level, as Suze mentions.

Be aware! Be aware of your surroundings and look like you know where you

are going (even if you are lost). Don't drink too much in unfamiliar

situations. If you sense any kind of danger, LISTEN to your intuition!

It's not in your head!

It's great that she will be traveling with a friend. I traveled all over

Europe for months with a girlfriend when we were 15 and 16 years old and

encountered relatively little trouble, all things considered. That trip was

unforgettable, and I am very grateful that my parents allowed me to go. We

shouldn't make all decisions based on fear, but we should be aware and as

prepared as we can be.

July 7, 2004

> Re: Re: POLITICS sexual assualt (was economics and

>subsidizing baby-making (was Gender))

>

>Thanks for that, .

>

>You're right about fear and being aware. I did cut-n-paste the

>thread and gave it to her to read. I don't know if she has yet -

>she hasn't said anything. I told her I wasn't trying to turn her

>off going, just making her aware of some of the possible dangers.

>

>Cheers,

>Tas'.

Tas,

I agree with what said - it's definitely a great experience despite

the occassional difficult experiences. In fact, my European trip was one of

the highlights of my life. It was a GREAT adventure, and I'm so grateful for

having had the opportunity to go. (I did pay for it with my summer job

earnings and perhaps that made me appreciate it all the more.)

In fact, I think it's worth going for the food alone (although for many

other reasons, as well). I've never had such good food in my life as I had

in Europe. When I returned to the States I couldn't really eat much produce

anymore because it tasted like cardboard to me. The European produce was

exceptionally tasty (no doubt higher brix!). Maybe things have changed in

the past 22 years since I was there, but I'm eager to go again, nonetheless.

And perhaps Southern European men have become a bit more humane in their

treatment toward women over the past 22 years as well (or at least the ones

who were not so to , to me and to other traveling women).

I would encourage any young person - female or male - to backpack through

Europe if they have the chance. Truly, despite my occassional bad

experience, it was wonderful. I met so many interesting people, ate great

food and saw incredibly beautiful cities and landscapes - some of them so

magical I had to pinch myself to prove I wasn't dreaming. I wouldn't trade

that experience for the world. Remember too, that I was traveling *alone*

which I think made me much more of a mark than young women traveling

together.

I really hope your daughter goes - just armed with a little 'tude! :-)

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~hre21/chunking1a/IntroOriginal.htm

----------------------------

>

July 8, 2004

In fact, my European trip was one of

> the highlights of my life. It was a GREAT adventure, and I'm so grateful

for

> having had the opportunity to go. (I did pay for it with my summer job

> earnings and perhaps that made me appreciate it all the more.)

Ha ha. Suze, I feel like we're living parallel lives (hopefully I'll get my

fillings out soon too--please keep us posted on the progress). I, too,

worked a whole summer to save $$ to go on my backpacking trip. I think this

added to my enjoyment of the trip as well.

Tas--encourage your daughter to start saving and planning now, if she hasn't

already. Also, have her check out an organization called " Volunteers for

Peace " --I think they're in Vermont here in the States. Anyway, they

organize 2-3 week volunteer projects all over the world. It's like a

mini-Peace Corps. My girlfriend and I did one in France and it was a great

way to meet folks from all over Europe and to really get to know a

particular town (not just as a tourist.) We did plenty of unstructured

traveling too.

July 9, 2004

>>>Also, have her check out an organization called " Volunteers for

Peace " --I think they're in Vermont here in the States. Anyway, they

organize 2-3 week volunteer projects all over the world. It's like a

mini-Peace Corps. My girlfriend and I did one in France and it was a great

way to meet folks from all over Europe and to really get to know a

particular town (not just as a tourist.) We did plenty of unstructured

traveling too.<<<

Thanks again, .

Another thing you can do while travelling is WWOOFing (Willing Workers On

Organic Farms) http://www.wwoof.com.au/WWOOFing_aound_the_world.html where you

can work (usually 1/2 days) for food and lodgings. We did it a few years ago

when we spent a whole year driving all around Australia. Certainly saves a few

dollars.

Cheers,

Tas'.

July 9, 2004

> Another thing you can do while travelling is WWOOFing (Willing Workers On

Organic Farms) http://www.wwoof.com.au/WWOOFing_aound_the_world.html where

you can work (usually 1/2 days) for food and lodgings. We did it a few years

ago when we spent a whole year driving all around Australia. Certainly saves

a few dollars.

>

> Cheers,

> Tas'.

Tas'--this organization looks fascinating! Would be great to travel around

if one was planning to buy a small farm (a la katja). I will definitely

keep the link--thanks!

July 15, 2004

Hi all,

> >You're right about fear and being aware. I did cut-n-paste the

> >thread and gave it to her to read. I don't know if she has yet -

> >she hasn't said anything. I told her I wasn't trying to turn her

> >off going, just making her aware of some of the possible dangers.

I think that's really sensible. Just to add my 2p's worth, I live here in

Europe quite happily (!!!!!!!!) though did get molested when young. I've

travelled extensively throughout Europe and only had one problem which was

when I was travelling through Italy on my own, aged 17 or so. I also woke

up to find some Italian guy's dick on my leg. He appeared to be asleep.

I got straight up and went to another carriage and eventually managed to get

rid of him.

The main thing I think is " attitude " - if you're a nice girl then you tend

to want to be nice and go along with things that most of you doesn't want to

do. That was my problem - I felt uncomfortable sharing a carriage with

this guy but there didn't seem to be any real basis for this. **Having the

confidence to act on a hunch** is the main thing to make sure your daughter

has, IMHO!

I don't think it's a function of Europe - but my impression is that there

are far far more young naive girls travelling round Europe than round the

States, so I should think it's a statistical thing based on that. ???

Helen

Try my experiment at

July 15, 2004

> Re: Re: POLITICS sexual assualt (was economics and

>subsidizing baby-making (was Gender))

>

>The main thing I think is " attitude " - if you're a nice girl then you tend

>to want to be nice and go along with things that most of you

>doesn't want to

>do.

Oh Helen - you hit the nail on the head! That was precisely my problem when

I was younger! (probably hard to believe from reading my posts. LOL!)

That was my problem - I felt uncomfortable sharing a carriage with

>this guy but there didn't seem to be any real basis for this.

Ditto for me in several situations I found myself in.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics