Re: OT: Raising kids--homeschooling, was POLITICS

[Guest guest]

> Hmm .. that is the philosophy of her current teacher .. I like the

teacher, but

> really, I LIKED textbooks! Might be how my brain works, but I liked

being able

> to look things up again, and look ahead to the next lesson, and to

see that

> things were " in order " . Might be an Aspberger thing. My kids seem

to be

> the same way.

The thing is, most school textbooks are written for masses of kids,

and so are the teacher's guides. Many people find it hard to wade

through all the crowd control stuff to get to what they really need

to do. Plus, the textbook model is " You are a passive recepticle of

the knowledge I'm going to dump into your head. "

I'm not trying to plug my company here, really, but one of the

reasons I got involved with them is because the books are mostly non-

fiction, highly organized, but designed to really appeal to kids. I

saw this when my son was 4 and grabbed one designed for jr. high and

up, and wouldn't put it down (he couldn't read at the time, and he

has Asberger's too). They are better-organized than most

textbooks, and I've even sold them to schools as curriculum. And we

have several hundred of them at home--more than I'd need for my

business; mostly for the kids to explore and to picque their

curiosity. Once they are curious, feeding that curiosity takes them

much further than a classroom could.

You want to find books that they would pick, at least most of the

time, over most other activities--and then delineate what is

available in terms of activities. In our house we have no x-box, no

Gameboy, and very few cartoon-character toys. We have things like

these cool plastic scales with pegs up the arms so they can see what

leverage does to perceived weight; a waterway track with things like

locks and paddlewheels; several magnifying glasses; Legos by the

boatload; games like Scrabble (good one!). I might not be giving them

assignments but they are learning. I do sometimes suggest they read

a particular book; but they've learned my suggestions are good ones

and will normally give it a try.

> So which math worksheets were those? My kids UNDERSTAND math, but

learning the

> basics (like multiplication) are difficult .. my nephew has a real

problem with memorization

> and so does my dh. But concepts are easy for them. Having gone thru

math up to

> calculus myself, I don't see how they can get away with not

memorizing the basics, and

> the school isn't into that at the moment. So my dh avoids anything

that looks like multiplication

> because she hasn't memorized the multiplication tables.

They're Singapore Math. They have a website: singaporemath.com, or

if that isn't right, I know you can get them on sonlight.com. It's

particularly good for kids " get " math easily.

The rote memorization thing, you're right, is anathema in public

schools right now, but it's part of Classical Education, a big

movement in private and home schools. My kids think " the math quiz

game " is fun. When we're driving in the car, I simply quiz them on

math facts! Or I might do it in a restaurant as we're waiting to be

served. It's amazing that when my daughter was 4, just a few months

ago, she could rapidly answer simple addition questions and even some

multiplication, just from listening in. And she understands the

concepts too. They have to get the concept first before they can

start really memorizing. We also have some math toys that help them

memorize, and some audio tapes with math songs.

There is also a curriculum called the Curriculum that

emphasizes memorizing basic math facts: the four functions to the

number 12. Dr. , who homeschooled/is homeschooling something

like 7 kids after the death of his wife, noticed that fellow

physicists and Nobel prize winners he invited home to dinner often

like to pose themselves " puzzles " to pass the time. They would do

these complex calculations in their heads. He emphasized to his kids

that they couldn't have done this had they not known their basic

facts cold. That was enough to convince me, even though my own

public schooling had taught me differently.

> Well, a couple of egg chickens they probably wouldn't notice, if

they were in an

> " aviary " . Meat chickens you don't keep long enough that anyone

would notice.

> If you let them run around, they would notice! But you can keep

them quite well

> by feeding them " weeds " from the garden.

>

> When we were looking for houses, we avoided the " covenant " type

neighborhoods.

> So yeah, our neighbors shoot off guns and fireworks and even do

paintball .. but they

> don't complain about us and we don't complain about them!

Well, two-three neighbors can see in our backyard from their

windows. I don't want a privacy fence because then I feel, well,

hemmed in. :-) We might be able to get away with a couple of meat

chickens, though.

When we were looking for our neighborhood we didn't have the income

we do now. I hope to be able to move in the next couple of years

(now not being a good time, halfway through a pregnancy and not

having started to search). And this time I'd like it to be to the

country, instead of the edge of it, on enough land for chickens etc.

Smiles,

Tracey

[Guest guest]

>The thing is, most school textbooks are written for masses of kids,

>and so are the teacher's guides. Many people find it hard to wade

>through all the crowd control stuff to get to what they really need

>to do. Plus, the textbook model is " You are a passive recepticle of

>the knowledge I'm going to dump into your head. "

Maybe it depends on the subject? For math (like algebra and calculus)

there really is an accepted methodology for most things, and I really

liked the " step by step " approach when I was in school. Plus if it

was easy or I knew the section, I'd just skip ahead after a brief

review. But I could go back, if I forgot something, and read it

again. With worksheets, there is no history, no way to " read ahead " ,

no way to restudy what you did last week.

>I'm not trying to plug my company here, really, but one of the

>reasons I got involved with them is because the books are mostly non-

>fiction, highly organized, but designed to really appeal to kids. I

>saw this when my son was 4 and grabbed one designed for jr. high and

>up, and wouldn't put it down (he couldn't read at the time, and he

>has Asberger's too). They are better-organized than most

>textbooks, and I've even sold them to schools as curriculum. And we

>have several hundred of them at home--more than I'd need for my

>business; mostly for the kids to explore and to picque their

>curiosity. Once they are curious, feeding that curiosity takes them

>much further than a classroom could.

Well by all means plug your company! If they are books, and organized,

then how are they not " textbooks " though? Do you have a website

or some literature I can read about them (or I could order some samples?).

And why " hundreds " of books? Are they smaller ones?

>You want to find books that they would pick, at least most of the

>time, over most other activities--and then delineate what is

>available in terms of activities. In our house we have no x-box, no

>Gameboy, and very few cartoon-character toys. We have things like

>these cool plastic scales with pegs up the arms so they can see what

>leverage does to perceived weight; a waterway track with things like

>locks and paddlewheels; several magnifying glasses; Legos by the

>boatload; games like Scrabble (good one!). I might not be giving them

>assignments but they are learning. I do sometimes suggest they read

>a particular book; but they've learned my suggestions are good ones

>and will normally give it a try.

We do a lot of that sort of thing too ... actually we have good computer

games too, and they learn a LOT from those. My oldest though, does

need help on some basics, like multiplication tables and spelling. Learning

stuff like electronics or chemistry is no problem for them. I'd love to

give them a GOOD sense of history and geography though, which I

doubt they would study on their own.

>

>They're Singapore Math. They have a website: singaporemath.com, or

>if that isn't right, I know you can get them on sonlight.com. It's

>particularly good for kids " get " math easily.

So these are the ones you sell?

>The rote memorization thing, you're right, is anathema in public

>schools right now, but it's part of Classical Education, a big

>movement in private and home schools. My kids think " the math quiz

>game " is fun. When we're driving in the car, I simply quiz them on

>math facts! Or I might do it in a restaurant as we're waiting to be

>served. It's amazing that when my daughter was 4, just a few months

>ago, she could rapidly answer simple addition questions and even some

>multiplication, just from listening in. And she understands the

>concepts too. They have to get the concept first before they can

>start really memorizing. We also have some math toys that help them

>memorize, and some audio tapes with math songs.

>

>There is also a curriculum called the Curriculum that

>emphasizes memorizing basic math facts: the four functions to the

>number 12. Dr. , who homeschooled/is homeschooling something

>like 7 kids after the death of his wife, noticed that fellow

>physicists and Nobel prize winners he invited home to dinner often

>like to pose themselves " puzzles " to pass the time. They would do

>these complex calculations in their heads. He emphasized to his kids

>that they couldn't have done this had they not known their basic

>facts cold. That was enough to convince me, even though my own

>public schooling had taught me differently.

Thanks. I highly agree. I went thru LOTS of math, and you really need

to know the basics. And in chemistry there is stuff to memorize too.

Plus you have to just learn to memorize ... any field you are in, there

is one basic set of stuff you just have to know by heart. I'm having

some success with " time tests " .. my dd loves taking time tests, but

hates doing it orally (I tried it in the car, my ds loves that, dd hates it).

>Well, two-three neighbors can see in our backyard from their

>windows. I don't want a privacy fence because then I feel, well,

>hemmed in. :-) We might be able to get away with a couple of meat

>chickens, though.

>

>When we were looking for our neighborhood we didn't have the income

>we do now. I hope to be able to move in the next couple of years

>(now not being a good time, halfway through a pregnancy and not

>having started to search). And this time I'd like it to be to the

>country, instead of the edge of it, on enough land for chickens etc.

Hee hee. That reminds me of when WE moved ... we found the house

when I was 5 mos. pregnant and moved when I was in the 8th month.

I hired folks to pack and unpack, I just couldn't do it. We didn't intend

to move then, but the house just dropped in our lap (I saw the ad

at a grocery store and it seemed soooo perfect I told my dh we just

had to look at it, it had all the special features we were going to build

into our dream house, like floor radiant heat).

Amazingly, the house with 5 acres didn't cost us much more, per month,

than our old one did. Now prices are higher out here, more yuppies

moving in, but at the time it was " the hicks " and prices were much lower

than further in toward the city. It's worth looking around ...

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>

> Maybe it depends on the subject? For math (like algebra and

calculus)

> there really is an accepted methodology for most things, and I

really

> liked the " step by step " approach when I was in school.

Yes, I think that's true. And Singapore Math does have textbooks; we

do those kind of as " stories " we read aloud together.

> Well by all means plug your company! If they are books, and

organized,

> then how are they not " textbooks " though? Do you have a website

> or some literature I can read about them (or I could order some

samples?).

>

> And why " hundreds " of books? Are they smaller ones?

I'll email you offlist about this. And they have over 1400 books; we

have two large bookshelves full. Some are quite large; they run the

gamut.

>... actually we have good computer

> games too, and they learn a LOT from those. My oldest though, does

> need help on some basics, like multiplication tables and spelling.

Learning

> stuff like electronics or chemistry is no problem for them. I'd

love to

> give them a GOOD sense of history and geography though, which I

> doubt they would study on their own.

We also have some good computer games. Because my son is such a Star

Wars fan, we have Star Wars Math (a Oppenheim Platinum award

winner). We also have Mighty Math-- " Something " Circus (preganancy

brain; but it was also an Oppenheim Platinum winner). My kids also

like Cluefinders.

I'll also email about the history and geography offlist.

> So these are the ones you sell?

Nope, just the ones that seem to fit my kids the best. I don't know

if Sonlight still has it, but they used to have a detailed comparison

of various math programs on their website. They're a homeschool

curriculum company that picks the best of the best, offering options

in math in particular to fit different learning styles.

> Hee hee. That reminds me of when WE moved ... we found the house

> when I was 5 mos. pregnant and moved when I was in the 8th month.

> I hired folks to pack and unpack, I just couldn't do it. We didn't

intend

> to move then, but the house just dropped in our lap (I saw the ad

> at a grocery store and it seemed soooo perfect I told my dh we just

> had to look at it, it had all the special features we were going to

build

> into our dream house, like floor radiant heat).

>

> Amazingly, the house with 5 acres didn't cost us much more, per

month,

> than our old one did. Now prices are higher out here, more yuppies

> moving in, but at the time it was " the hicks " and prices were much

lower

> than further in toward the city. It's worth looking around ...

Sounds like quite an experience! We know we'll eventually move, but

we're not in the position to do it now for a lot of reasons. And we

hope to only move once, and it has to be near a) a large city, for

DH's employment reasons and near raw milk, for my health most

critically, but all of our health (I have horrible allergies without

it).

Smiles,

Tracey

[Guest guest]

e:

>Sounds like quite an experience! We know we'll eventually move, but

>we're not in the position to do it now for a lot of reasons. And we

>hope to only move once, and it has to be near a) a large city, for

>DH's employment reasons and near raw milk, for my health most

>critically, but all of our health (I have horrible allergies without

>it).

Tracey:

I'll respond to the rest later, but as for the raw milk: if you can

get a place that allows chickens, you can probably keep a milk

goat. Our neighbor got one, and really, they are tiny little

things with not much upkeep (except you have to milk them).

If I could handle milk, I'd get one! Hers cost $100 and eats weeds

or pea grass hay, and they can produce up to 5 gallons of milk

a day. So you don't need to 'be near' raw milk ... make your own!

(BTW the goat milk tasted just like cows milk, as long as there

is no billy nearby, and billies are a pain anyway).

As for near a large city: we are 45 minutes from Seattle, and

it's a whole different world! I'm always surprised at how close

the " boonies " are to " downtown " . The main difference is zoning ...

you could keep a milk goat and chickens on most city lots, but

it just isn't allowed. They are changing the rules on chickens in some

places, maybe it will change for goats too. Those 1950 rules (and

the old blue laws) just keep with us ... in those old Italian villages,

people lived pretty close together, but they didn't ban livestock.

In a Swiss village I visited, the houses were really close, no yards at

all, but the cows had the bottom floor and the people lived on the 2nd

floor. In the AM, you could hear the mooing as the herdsfolk led the

cows out to pasture ...

== Heidi Jean