Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 I am working with someone who has experienced pressure in the front of his head during/after every session, no matter what protocol we've used. I've tried about 10 different protocols, each consistent with his TLC, and each results in something similar. He describes it as pressure beginning approximately at the nasion and extending over the right orbital, in an arc either right over the eyebrow or about 1/2 inch over the eyebrow. On occasion, he has been surprised to find that the pressure began in the usual place but extended in an almost flat line across the forehead just over the bony ridge of the orbital socket, beginning and ending at about where his pupils are. At first, he noticed the pressure (he does NOT describe it as painful) only during the sessions. We'd stop when he reported it, as I didn't want to be creating an abreaction. Now, though, he says he's noticing it in between sessions. When I asked him to describe whether it faded over time after the sessions, he said that it isn't so much that it goes away as it fades from his awareness. He IS showing some beginning signs of progress (it's been 12 sessions now) and has reported episodes of being able to focus intensely, which pleases him. However, I am totally stumped as to why he would feel pressure where he does, sometimes across both hemispheres, when I am working nowhere near the area in question. He had reactions even when I worked at P3P4. He is now thinking that perhaps his high blood pressure is causing this. That sounds a little odd to me, given that he has a profound relaxation response to training. Has anyone else had an experience like this? Tamera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 A wrote: > > From my experience, YMMV, you may want to consider that some forms of > MENTAL focus are PHYSICALLY implemented by bi-ocular fusion, EYE > focus. When the eyes focus on the external world the brain will > mentally focus there. When the eyes don't focus, external > mental focus awareness is much less certain. When the brain use > changes the eyes change. The feeling of pressure could be caused my > the new and different use of eye muscles. > > You're very lucky that it's not a headache, or worse. FYI - I've > posted lots of messages on eye focus on this forum over the years. > Good luck with your progress. > > Have a great day! > > ~ A > Do Something Useful > > > * Weird Head Pressure > > I am working with someone who has experienced pressure in the > front of his head during/after every session, no matter what > protocol we've used. I've tried about 10 different protocols, > each consistent with his TLC, and each results in something similar. > > He describes it as pressure beginning approximately at the nasion > and extending over the right orbital, in an arc either right over > the eyebrow or about 1/2 inch over the eyebrow. On occasion, he > has been surprised to find that the pressure began in the usual > place but extended in an almost flat line across the forehead just > over the bony ridge of the orbital socket, beginning and ending at > about where his pupils are. > > At first, he noticed the pressure (he does NOT describe it as > painful) only during the sessions. We'd stop when he reported it, > as I didn't want to be creating an abreaction. Now, though, he > says he's noticing it in between sessions. When I asked him to > describe whether it faded over time after the sessions, he said > that it isn't so much that it goes away as it fades from his > awareness. > > He IS showing some beginning signs of progress (it's been 12 > sessions now) and has reported episodes of being able to focus > intensely, which pleases him. > > However, I am totally stumped as to why he would feel pressure > where he does, sometimes across both hemispheres, when I am > working nowhere near the area in question. He had reactions even > when I worked at P3P4. > > He is now thinking that perhaps his high blood pressure is causing > this. That sounds a little odd to me, given that he has a > profound relaxation response to training. > > Has anyone else had an experience like this? > > Tamera > . > > Dear Tamara, Does this patient have an Arnold Chiari Brain Malformation type I that you know of? Those patients are often under-diagnosed and they do experience feelings of pressure. Sincerely, Connie M. Moeller, MA, LMFT Neuro-Integration Therapy --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 A wrote: > > From my experience, YMMV, you may want to consider that some forms of > MENTAL focus are PHYSICALLY implemented by bi-ocular fusion, EYE > focus. When the eyes focus on the external world the brain will > mentally focus there. When the eyes don't focus, external > mental focus awareness is much less certain. When the brain use > changes the eyes change. The feeling of pressure could be caused my > the new and different use of eye muscles. > > You're very lucky that it's not a headache, or worse. FYI - I've > posted lots of messages on eye focus on this forum over the years. > Good luck with your progress. > > Have a great day! > > ~ A > Do Something Useful > > > * Weird Head Pressure > > I am working with someone who has experienced pressure in the > front of his head during/after every session, no matter what > protocol we've used. I've tried about 10 different protocols, > each consistent with his TLC, and each results in something similar. > > He describes it as pressure beginning approximately at the nasion > and extending over the right orbital, in an arc either right over > the eyebrow or about 1/2 inch over the eyebrow. On occasion, he > has been surprised to find that the pressure began in the usual > place but extended in an almost flat line across the forehead just > over the bony ridge of the orbital socket, beginning and ending at > about where his pupils are. > > At first, he noticed the pressure (he does NOT describe it as > painful) only during the sessions. We'd stop when he reported it, > as I didn't want to be creating an abreaction. Now, though, he > says he's noticing it in between sessions. When I asked him to > describe whether it faded over time after the sessions, he said > that it isn't so much that it goes away as it fades from his > awareness. > > He IS showing some beginning signs of progress (it's been 12 > sessions now) and has reported episodes of being able to focus > intensely, which pleases him. > > However, I am totally stumped as to why he would feel pressure > where he does, sometimes across both hemispheres, when I am > working nowhere near the area in question. He had reactions even > when I worked at P3P4. > > He is now thinking that perhaps his high blood pressure is causing > this. That sounds a little odd to me, given that he has a > profound relaxation response to training. > > Has anyone else had an experience like this? > > Tamera > . > > Dear Tamara, Does this patient have an Arnold Chiari Brain Malformation type I that you know of? Those patients are often under-diagnosed and they do experience feelings of pressure. Sincerely, Connie M. Moeller, MA, LMFT Neuro-Integration Therapy --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Thanks, , for the reassurance about cortical blood pressure.. I took it at first to be just what you described, but it even happened while working at P3P4 rather than only in the frontal region. Tamera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Thanks, , for the reassurance about cortical blood pressure.. I took it at first to be just what you described, but it even happened while working at P3P4 rather than only in the frontal region. Tamera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Thanks, , for the reassurance about cortical blood pressure.. I took it at first to be just what you described, but it even happened while working at P3P4 rather than only in the frontal region. Tamera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Quick question, Tamera+ Were you using the pROSHI, during the sessions? /ChuckD.... > > I am working with someone who has experienced pressure in the front of his head during/after every session, no matter what protocol we've used. I've tried about 10 different protocols, each consistent with his TLC, and each results in something similar. > > He describes it as pressure beginning approximately at the nasion and extending over the right orbital, in an arc either right over the eyebrow or about 1/2 inch over the eyebrow. On occasion, he has been surprised to find that the pressure began in the usual place but extended in an almost flat line across the forehead just over the bony ridge of the orbital socket, beginning and ending at about where his pupils are. > > At first, he noticed the pressure (he does NOT describe it as painful) only during the sessions. We'd stop when he reported it, as I didn't want to be creating an abreaction. Now, though, he says he's noticing it in between sessions. When I asked him to describe whether it faded over time after the sessions, he said that it isn't so much that it goes away as it fades from his awareness. > > He IS showing some beginning signs of progress (it's been 12 sessions now) and has reported episodes of being able to focus intensely, which pleases him. > > However, I am totally stumped as to why he would feel pressure where he does, sometimes across both hemispheres, when I am working nowhere near the area in question. He had reactions even when I worked at P3P4. > > He is now thinking that perhaps his high blood pressure is causing this. That sounds a little odd to me, given that he has a profound relaxation response to training. > > Has anyone else had an experience like this? > > Tamera > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Hello, Chuck, Not during neurofeedback. I had him using the blue/green goggles before sessions, starting at just a couple of minutes, then working up to about 10 min. using just - cycle. I also did three sessions when I did not use the pROSHI, thinking that it might've been the trigger, but eliminating it had no effect--the pressure came anyhow. During our last session, we used the mag-stims, as he started conveying more information than he had before about his sleep issues (mild sleep apnea). He didn't email after the session, so I'll be intrigued tomorrow to find out what effect it might've had. Tamera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Hello, Chuck, Not during neurofeedback. I had him using the blue/green goggles before sessions, starting at just a couple of minutes, then working up to about 10 min. using just - cycle. I also did three sessions when I did not use the pROSHI, thinking that it might've been the trigger, but eliminating it had no effect--the pressure came anyhow. During our last session, we used the mag-stims, as he started conveying more information than he had before about his sleep issues (mild sleep apnea). He didn't email after the session, so I'll be intrigued tomorrow to find out what effect it might've had. Tamera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 well that is signifiant. stop doing that, and see if it stops you are probably introducing some underlying state with the entrainment, that could be interacting with the nfb.even if it's just fatigue. -andrew Hello, Chuck, Not during neurofeedback. I had him using the blue/green goggles before sessions, starting at just a couple of minutes, then working up to about 10 min. using just - cycle. I also did three sessions when I did not use the pROSHI, thinking that it might've been the trigger, but eliminating it had no effect--the pressure came anyhow. During our last session, we used the mag-stims, as he started conveying more information than he had before about his sleep issues (mild sleep apnea). He didn't email after the session, so I'll be intrigued tomorrow to find out what effect it might've had. Tamera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 well that is signifiant. stop doing that, and see if it stops you are probably introducing some underlying state with the entrainment, that could be interacting with the nfb.even if it's just fatigue. -andrew Hello, Chuck, Not during neurofeedback. I had him using the blue/green goggles before sessions, starting at just a couple of minutes, then working up to about 10 min. using just - cycle. I also did three sessions when I did not use the pROSHI, thinking that it might've been the trigger, but eliminating it had no effect--the pressure came anyhow. During our last session, we used the mag-stims, as he started conveying more information than he had before about his sleep issues (mild sleep apnea). He didn't email after the session, so I'll be intrigued tomorrow to find out what effect it might've had. Tamera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 oh sorry Tamera,missed the part where you stopped the entrainment. but could still be related, even if it didn't extinguish in one sesson.best,andrew well that is signifiant. stop doing that, and see if it stops you are probably introducing some underlying state with the entrainment, that could be interacting with the nfb.even if it's just fatigue. -andrew Hello, Chuck, Not during neurofeedback. I had him using the blue/green goggles before sessions, starting at just a couple of minutes, then working up to about 10 min. using just - cycle. I also did three sessions when I did not use the pROSHI, thinking that it might've been the trigger, but eliminating it had no effect--the pressure came anyhow. During our last session, we used the mag-stims, as he started conveying more information than he had before about his sleep issues (mild sleep apnea). He didn't email after the session, so I'll be intrigued tomorrow to find out what effect it might've had. Tamera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 oh sorry Tamera,missed the part where you stopped the entrainment. but could still be related, even if it didn't extinguish in one sesson.best,andrew well that is signifiant. stop doing that, and see if it stops you are probably introducing some underlying state with the entrainment, that could be interacting with the nfb.even if it's just fatigue. -andrew Hello, Chuck, Not during neurofeedback. I had him using the blue/green goggles before sessions, starting at just a couple of minutes, then working up to about 10 min. using just - cycle. I also did three sessions when I did not use the pROSHI, thinking that it might've been the trigger, but eliminating it had no effect--the pressure came anyhow. During our last session, we used the mag-stims, as he started conveying more information than he had before about his sleep issues (mild sleep apnea). He didn't email after the session, so I'll be intrigued tomorrow to find out what effect it might've had. Tamera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Not a bad thing, Tamera+ The pROSHI will cause the brain to boost its brain blood profusion, to those locations that 'need' it. This is what is causing this pressure, to be felt. The actions, of the pROSHI are causing this to happen. His sleep issues will be progressively smoothing out, along the way. /ChuckD.... http://www.joanfabian.net/roshi.asp >> Hello, Chuck,> > Not during neurofeedback. I had him using the blue/green goggles before sessions, starting at just a couple of minutes, then working up to about 10 min. using just - cycle. I also did three sessions when I did not use the pROSHI, thinking that it might've been the trigger, but eliminating it had no effect--the pressure came anyhow.> > During our last session, we used the mag-stims, as he started conveying more information than he had before about his sleep issues (mild sleep apnea). He didn't email after the session, so I'll be intrigued tomorrow to find out what effect it might've had.> > Tamera> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 it doesn't entrain? that's interesting. the light and magstim are both going create stimulus evoked potentials in a pattern as a response to the flashing. while this might not be " entraining " as forcing to a specific frequency (like a simple light and sound machine) there is certainly a driving force that is external to the person, especially in the absence of using it with a neurofeedback signal. either way, changing the dynamics of brain state by using a pattern of stimuli might be interpreted as entrainment, if you affect the underlying frequencies in some way resonant with the stimulus frequencies. have you ruled that out? best, andrew > > + > > The pROSHI2+ does not entrain. > > /ChuckD.... > > >> >>> Hello, Chuck, >>> >>> Not during neurofeedback. I had him using the blue/green goggles >>> before sessions, starting at just a couple of minutes, then working >>> up to about 10 min. using just - cycle. I also did three sessions >>> when I did not use the pROSHI, thinking that it might've been the >>> trigger, but eliminating it had no effect--the pressure came anyhow. >>> >>> During our last session, we used the mag-stims, as he started >>> conveying more information than he had before about his sleep issues >>> (mild sleep apnea). He didn't email after the session, so I'll be >>> intrigued tomorrow to find out what effect it might've had. >>> >>> Tamera >>> >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Again, , the pROSHI does NOT entrain! > >>> >>> Hello, Chuck,> >>>> >>> Not during neurofeedback. I had him using the blue/green goggles> >>> before sessions, starting at just a couple of minutes, then working> >>> up to about 10 min. using just - cycle. I also did three sessions> >>> when I did not use the pROSHI, thinking that it might've been the> >>> trigger, but eliminating it had no effect--the pressure came anyhow.> >>>> >>> During our last session, we used the mag-stims, as he started> >>> conveying more information than he had before about his sleep issues> >>> (mild sleep apnea). He didn't email after the session, so I'll be> >>> intrigued tomorrow to find out what effect it might've had.> >>>> >>> Tamera> >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------------> >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Again, , the pROSHI does NOT entrain! > >>> >>> Hello, Chuck,> >>>> >>> Not during neurofeedback. I had him using the blue/green goggles> >>> before sessions, starting at just a couple of minutes, then working> >>> up to about 10 min. using just - cycle. I also did three sessions> >>> when I did not use the pROSHI, thinking that it might've been the> >>> trigger, but eliminating it had no effect--the pressure came anyhow.> >>>> >>> During our last session, we used the mag-stims, as he started> >>> conveying more information than he had before about his sleep issues> >>> (mild sleep apnea). He didn't email after the session, so I'll be> >>> intrigued tomorrow to find out what effect it might've had.> >>>> >>> Tamera> >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------------> >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2008 Report Share Posted June 5, 2008 Again, , the pROSHI does NOT entrain! > >>> >>> Hello, Chuck,> >>>> >>> Not during neurofeedback. I had him using the blue/green goggles> >>> before sessions, starting at just a couple of minutes, then working> >>> up to about 10 min. using just - cycle. I also did three sessions> >>> when I did not use the pROSHI, thinking that it might've been the> >>> trigger, but eliminating it had no effect--the pressure came anyhow.> >>>> >>> During our last session, we used the mag-stims, as he started> >>> conveying more information than he had before about his sleep issues> >>> (mild sleep apnea). He didn't email after the session, so I'll be> >>> intrigued tomorrow to find out what effect it might've had.> >>>> >>> Tamera> >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------------> >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 To be honest, I really don't think the pROSHI has anything to do with the pressure sensation. I went three sessions without using it, which means two weeks of no pROSHI. Given that we were only a few sessions into our work and were using it only a few minutes at a time at that point, anything that was a result of pROSHI use would've faded--yet, the frequency of feeling the pressure sensation is increasing. I am really impressed by all the ideas and help I'm getting through this forum and promise to report back as things unfold. Tamera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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