RE: High quality soilsWASRe: Holy Organic

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/8/04 9:07:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

dkemnitz2000@... writes:

> XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXWhere does that info come from, do you

> know, " plants grown on high quality soil have a lot less anti-

> nutrients than those grown on poor soils " . Seems like that would take

> bunches of research. Can't imagine it even getting funded. Please

> what is the reference for this info? Dennis Kemnitz

I posted a study, somewhere in the archives, that oxalates are present in

direct proportion to the amount of nitrate fertilizer used. There is no

correlation with nitrogen per se, only nitrate.

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/8/04 9:36:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

s.fisher22@... writes:

> Also, posted some info here a while back about wild-grown plants

> (don't recall the species) that had lower oxalic acid content than, I

> believe, it's cultivated counterpart. I don't recall if the soil fertility

> was tested, but if it were a conventionally-grown crop, then likely the wild

> one did indeed grow on higher fertility soil.

>

I don't know if they were wild as such, but they were wild breeds. I believe

it is genetic, not soil based. (Though perhaps there is some soil component

as well.) In fact, the wild breeds contained NO, read that NONE, no insoluble

oxalates (which are worse for you and are not diminished by

steaming/boiling). I also posted a study finding a direct positive correlation

between nitrate

fertilizer and oxalates. The difference was big.

Chris

[Guest guest]

>- In , " Suze Fisher "

><s.fisher22@v...> wrote:

>>

>> > RE: Holy Organic

>> >

>> >

>>

>> No, the other way around. I'm not arguing that corn and soy are

>good as

>> staples in anyone's diet, but it's worth noting that plants grown

>on high

>> fertility soil have a lot less anti-nutrients than those grown on

>poor

>> soils. I don't know if that includes lectins or not, though.

>>

>>

>

>

>XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXWhere does that info come from, do you

>know, " plants grown on high quality soil have a lot less anti-

>nutrients than those grown on poor soils " . Seems like that would take

>bunches of research. Can't imagine it even getting funded. Please

>what is the reference for this info? Dennis Kemnitz

Hi Dennis,

Sorry, I should amend that to read that plants grown on high fertility soil

apparently have fewer anti-nutrients. I don't know if it's a *lot* less -

somehow my vague impression is that the difference is notable. I *think* I

got that from some specific info posted to the brix talk list a few months

ago. Are you on that list? You could always ask if anyone has any info on

this topic. I don't know the original source - maybe Reams, maybe Andersen?

Both did a lot of soil research and testing, so it's something they might

have come across in their research.

Also, posted some info here a while back about wild-grown plants

(don't recall the species) that had lower oxalic acid content than, I

believe, it's cultivated counterpart. I don't recall if the soil fertility

was tested, but if it were a conventionally-grown crop, then likely the wild

one did indeed grow on higher fertility soil.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

“The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

>>>In " Dangerous Grains " the authors point out that glutenin is found in rice

also,<<<

So that's it!!! I'd been wondering why I still get eczema when I only eat rice

and not the wheat and dairy that I also get it from.

>>>if you do it right, you can have chickens and goats etc. grazing between the

vines.<<<

I've been wondering what plants I can grow that are safe from being eaten by

goats. Can you (or someone else) tell me about any more?

Cheers,

Tas'.

[Guest guest]

>><http://www.montana.edu/wwwpb/pubs/mt9806.pdf>http://www.montana.edu/wwwpb/pub\

s/mt9806.pdf

>

>This document is a good illustration of Chi's point that crops are grown for

>maximum yield not nutritional quality. Not that this is mystery :-(

>

>Suze Fisher

>Lapdog Design, Inc

Oh, well, yeah, that's not a mystery! It's not just yeild though ... they

also breed for things like " not rotting on the way to market " ... which

means lower sugar content (hence lower brix readings).

I don't think the WAY a crop is bred is as important as WHAT you

are breeding for though. In terms of " Hybrids " ... it technically means

crossing two strains. I got some beans once from a home gardener

who crossed Blue Lake beans with Scarlet Runner beans (both heirloom

strains, I think, that she'd been growing for awhile). Then she bred

the cross for awhile til it stabilized. They were great beans! And you could

plant the beans and get more beans.

Sounds like people are using " hybrid " though in the sense Chi

said ... first generation, and the reason the seed companies send

first generation hybrids is BECAUSE they aren't stable (or maybe even not

fertile). But there is no ingrained rule that says if you cross two strains

the strain you get will be worse ... or that it will be better ... it's just a

way to mix up the genes so you get something *different*.

BTW our berries hybridize themselves. We have a new strain we

call " mystery berries " ... probably a cross between a raspberry and some

type of blackberry, but they aren't nberries. And they spread

like mad ... nothing weakly about them!

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>>>>In " Dangerous Grains " the authors point out that glutenin is found in rice

also,<<<

>

>So that's it!!! I'd been wondering why I still get eczema when I only eat rice

and not the wheat and dairy that I also get it from.

Interesting! My dd is getting acne now, of all things ... she had that on wheat

but it went away when we changed our diet. Maybe it's the rice ...

>>>>if you do it right, you can have chickens and goats etc. grazing between the

vines.<<<

>

>I've been wondering what plants I can grow that are safe from being eaten by

goats. Can you (or someone else) tell me about any more?

My theory is that grazers are why trees are " tree shaped " ;--) I think you have

to trim the trees so they

can only reach the bottom branches, and put the vines up out of goat reach. The

chickens get the

berries on the lower branches too, but there's plenty left for us.

Now for raspberries, the goats can graze when the canes are dormant. They don't

like

bark unless they are really really hungry.

-- Heidi Jean