Re: Bad breath conundrum

[Guest guest]

,

The l-glutamine treatment for healing leaky gut combined with olive leaf

extract for candida seemed to take care of any leftover bad breath from my

stomach. Was eating yogurt but am now just taking acidophillus.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

Wanita-

>The l-glutamine treatment for healing leaky gut combined with olive leaf

>extract for candida seemed to take care of any leftover bad breath from my

>stomach. Was eating yogurt but am now just taking acidophillus.

I have heard abundantly about using l-glutamine for digestive issues, but

I'm nervous about its propensity to turn into an excitotoxin -- and for

some reason, when Binky took it recently (she seems to have developed

full-blown IBD) it had rather explosive results, which further spooked me.

As to olive leaf extract, can you recommend a brand/form? I guess I could

try Pure Encapsulations... I think I tried it once before and it just

disturbed things, but I don't remember what brand.

Since oral treatments seem to work (whereas basic hygiene doesn't) it seems

like the bacteria in my mouth, nose and throat are somewhat out of balance,

but presumably that has a systemic cause. What puzzles me is that

improving my digestion by introducing HCl supplementation is what seems to

have precipitated the dysbiosis.

-

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I don't have any comments about what the cause may be, but I do have a

suggestion for taking care of the odor. Since I've been using a green

drink every morning (I use the superfood recipe that I put in the

files), I can eat garlic, onions, etc without it affecting my breath

for hours or even days afterwards. I'm sure it's because of the

chlorophyll content in many of the ingredients in that mixture.

You can also get chlorophyll tablets to take just for that purpose.

They also seem to help.

As far as the cause, detoxification can also cause bad breath. Perhaps

your better digestion is also causing a detox? Just a guess of course.

~ Fern

Bad breath conundrum

> My understanding has always been that bad breath is supposed to be

more an

> indication of poor digestion than of poor oral hygiene, though of

course

> both play a role. However, since starting HCl supplementation --

and

> radically improving my digestion -- I've developed an intermittent

but

> sometimes serious bad breath problem. Hygiene is not, AFAIK,

playing a

> role. I brush (with soap) and floss several times a day, and it

actually

> began before I switched from toothpaste to soap, so the soap's not

it.

>

> Hydrogen peroxide will sometimes take care of it, as will various

topical

> sprays and mouthwash products which I think are bleach-based and

which

> therefore are extremely harmful in the long run.

>

> I eat probiotics pretty much daily in the form of yoghurt and

supplemental

> probiotics. As most of you no doubt know, I eat low-carb, but this

isn't

> ketone breath.

>

> Any thoughts on the origin of the problem, and any healthier

suggestions on

> what I can do about it?

>

>

>

> -

[Guest guest]

> What puzzles me is that

> improving my digestion by introducing HCl supplementation is what

seems to

> have precipitated the dysbiosis.

>

>

>

>

> -

What led you to supplement with HCl?

How old are you?

Perhaps the resulting dysbiosis is the reason we produce less HCl as

we age?????

[Guest guest]

,

> I have heard abundantly about using l-glutamine for digestive issues, but

> I'm nervous about its propensity to turn into an excitotoxin -- and for

> some reason, when Binky took it recently (she seems to have developed

> full-blown IBD) it had rather explosive results, which further spooked me.

Had no issues doing the Sherry 's l- glutamine routine of 5 grams

powder (ask if purity is over 99%, don't remember source) 2X day one or 2

hours before or after meals for a month. Could tell difference in a week.

I'd be selective away from the bodybuilding market where there could be

hidden excitotoxins added. Is Binky's IBD really IBD? Time magazine article

Heidi sent last week said IBD takes on average of 15 years to be correctly

diagnosed as gluten. Had IBD symptoms 15 years ago that dr. couldn't even

call that or anything else other than in my head. Mylanta he told me to take

gave explosive results which were totally opposite from what brought me

there.

>

> As to olive leaf extract, can you recommend a brand/form? I guess I could

> try Pure Encapsulations... I think I tried it once before and it just

> disturbed things, but I don't remember what brand.

Got Solgar 225 mg. extract, 225 mg. powder from Whole Foods. There was just

a gastroenterologist on NPR. Got more calls than any other medical shows.

3/4 were celiac. H. pylori was brought up by someone having reoccurances.

She did say a breath test and blood test detect it. Olive leaf extract kills

h. pylori. H-pylori and leaky gut have common causes from NSAID use.

Disturbing things could have been die off. If you're still leary of

excitotoxins in l- glutamine maybe another round of OLE will kill off

whatever the HCI woke up.

> Since oral treatments seem to work (whereas basic hygiene doesn't) it

seems

> like the bacteria in my mouth, nose and throat are somewhat out of

balance,

> but presumably that has a systemic cause. What puzzles me is that

> improving my digestion by introducing HCl supplementation is what seems to

> have precipitated the dysbiosis.

Google search shows there's not much that survives OLE including mouth, nose

and throat bacteria. Have had less hearing in my right ear for 15 years

besides mouth and sinus issues. 80% better now.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

Wanita-

>Could tell difference in a week.

Hmm, maybe it's worth trying, then.

>I'd be selective away from the bodybuilding market where there could be

>hidden excitotoxins added.

No, sorry, I didn't mean additives, but the problem of l-glutamine being

turned into glutamate in the body (IIRC that's the potential problem, but

it has been awhile since I researched excitotoxins).

>Is Binky's IBD really IBD?

Oh heck, I don't know. Isn't IBD just the umbrella turn for " ongoing

irritable gut problems we don't know the causes of? " anyway?

OK, that said I do have a pretty good idea of what's going on, but she's a

resolute SAD eater/pharmaceutical test victim, so there's nothing I can do.

>Olive leaf extract kills

>h. pylori. H-pylori and leaky gut have common causes from NSAID use.

Well, I picked up some Pure Encapsulations olive leaf extract today, so

I'll see how that goes. (And damn, it was expensive!)

>Google search shows there's not much that survives OLE including mouth, nose

>and throat bacteria. Have had less hearing in my right ear for 15 years

>besides mouth and sinus issues. 80% better now.

Hmm, maybe I should gargle with it, then? Or would that be just as bitter

and nasty as gargling with grapefruit seed extract?

-

[Guest guest]

Fern-

>Since I've been using a green

>drink every morning (I use the superfood recipe that I put in the

>files), I can eat garlic, onions, etc without it affecting my breath

>for hours or even days afterwards.

Really! Interesting. I'll have to look at your recipe again -- I only

dimly remember it from when you first posted it.

>As far as the cause, detoxification can also cause bad breath. Perhaps

>your better digestion is also causing a detox? Just a guess of course.

Not impossible, but still, it's a problem I need to deal with, particularly

as work is bringing me into close contact with more and more and more people.

-

[Guest guest]

-

>What led you to supplement with HCl?

After taking an asthma drug for awhile (singulair) my digestion went to

hell, and I tried a lot of things to fix it, including HCl. HCl, once a

found a brand I could tolerate (Pure Encapsulations) worked like magic. I

believe that at the very least, the drug knocked out my stomach acid

production.

>How old are you?

31.

>Perhaps the resulting dysbiosis is the reason we produce less HCl as

>we age?????

No, I don't believe so, not for a minute. I think people's HCl production

decreases with age due to poor nutrition and declining health. If, as

seems to be the case, the HCl supplementation did lead to this...

oral/nasal/sinus/throat/whatever dysbiosis, I think it's most likely

because my digestion and absorption of my food improved -- but wasn't

magically restored to 100%, so that now something further down the chain

isn't working right and is causing the problem. Figuring out what, though,

and how to fix it, will be the trick.

I should add that eliminating scrambled eggs (not a good food in the first

place, I fear) did result in a major improvement. I haven't yet tried

eliminating all dairy and raw egg yolks (I eat six most days in a yoghurt

shake) but I'd be concerned about how I could replace the nutrients if I

did that.

-

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/19/04 11:14:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

Idol@... writes:

> I have heard abundantly about using l-glutamine for digestive issues, but

> I'm nervous about its propensity to turn into an excitotoxin

I'm skeptical about this. Glutamate can act as an excitotoxin in excess, but

it isn't an excitotoxin per se-- it is just potentially one. Ideally,

there's no such thing as excess glutamate, because it just gets turned into

glutamine, which is the nervous system's way of dealing with both excessive

glutamate

and excessive glutamine.

Further, there are lots of factors that increase or decrease sensitivity to

excitotoxins that have nothing to do with concentration of the specific

" toxin, " so excitotoxicity might be as much or more a function of those other

factors

than the excitotoxin. (Fasting increases sensitivity to excitotoxicity, and

I came across a few other factors that are presently eluding me.)

Also, glutamine is the most abundant dietary free amino acid in natural

dietary sources, so it's not like it's something not normally found in the diet.

I take glutamine as a post-workout supplement. It decreases muscle fatigue

and soreness, supposedly helps build muscle, raises human growth hormone.

Sometimes with a big dose (actually, a huge dose, since I buy a " side " of it at

the gym's juice bar, and they sometimes put in quantities that would be

enormously and ridiculously cost-prohibitive if one were taking capsules) after

a

workout, I get a mild euphoria and colors appear brighter. I figure that's the

result of a HGH spike.

Chris

[Guest guest]

,

I don't know if this has any applicability to your situation, but I often

find that I get an awful taste in my mouth when I go too long with no water. I

also find that anything acidic, such as water with a lot of lemon, helps to

keep my breath fresh.

Brushing with MSM is great for a clean feeling in the mouth, and pure

peppermint oil mixed with chloryphyll makes a great breath freshener. I

irregularly

use WOW drops, which they warn against putting directly in your mouth, though

I do it to know effect. Also, you look like a freak doing some obscure drug

when you follow their directions in public, which say to put a drop on your

hand and lick it.

Why does poor digestion cause bad breath?

Chris

[Guest guest]

>> I should add that eliminating scrambled eggs (not a good food in the

first

place, I fear) <<

Oh, bite your tongue right off, ! How can you say that! <G>

Christie

[Guest guest]

--- In , Idol <Idol@c...>

wrote:

>

> I should add that eliminating scrambled eggs (not a good food in

the first

> place, I fear) did result in a major improvement.

Why is scrambled egg not good? I figured it was the perfect food....

low carb, high fat (when scrambled with LOTS of butter) and well

balanced nutritionally, plus very filling

I also have a bad breath problem (again, not ketosis breath). I'm

sure it's fairly recent. Only my hubby comments (everyone else

either hasn't got close enough or is too polite) however it does

concern me.

I'd like to try the OLE - if it kills everything, does it also kill

good bacteria?

I take probiotics - primal defense - could this be a cause?

Jo

[Guest guest]

Jo,

Was an exaggeration. :-)

http://www.naturalhealthconsult.com/Monographs/oliveleaf.html

says OLE will affect certain soil born organisms in Primal Defense. Also not

for coumadin blood thinner, antibiotic or certain other amino acid users.

Don't agree with their Solgar claim% testing other brands than their's. What

I have says 14 mg.oleuropein 6% but its now 5 years since they tested.

Wanita

> I'd like to try the OLE - if it kills everything, does it also

>kill good bacteria?

> I take probiotics - primal defense - could this be a cause?

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I looked up this subject, under goggle search, to see what causes bad

breath. Well, there are many reasons, but the most common one seems

to be a yellowish mucous build up at the back of the tongue. This can

be caused by sinus drainage, however maybe in your case, since you

drink 6 eggs which contain a lot of sulphur, the build up may be from

that drink. You could try cleaning your tongue in the back " after "

you have this wholesome drink. A tongue scrapper might help or just

use your toothbrush. I've had no experience with tongue scrappers,

but maybe someone else can advise you in that department.

This is very much a guess on my part, but it is based on what I read.

Won't it be nice to find a simple solution for a change!

Good luck,

Sheila

--- In , Idol <Idol@c...>

wrote:

> My understanding has always been that bad breath is supposed to be

more an

> indication of poor digestion than of poor oral hygiene, though of

course

> both play a role. However, since starting HCl supplementation --

and

> radically improving my digestion -- I've developed an intermittent

but

> sometimes serious bad breath problem. Hygiene is not, AFAIK,

playing a

> role. I brush (with soap) and floss several times a day, and it

actually

> began before I switched from toothpaste to soap, so the soap's not

it.

>

> Hydrogen peroxide will sometimes take care of it, as will various

topical

> sprays and mouthwash products which I think are bleach-based and

which

> therefore are extremely harmful in the long run.

>

> I eat probiotics pretty much daily in the form of yoghurt and

supplemental

> probiotics. As most of you no doubt know, I eat low-carb, but this

isn't

> ketone breath.

>

> Any thoughts on the origin of the problem, and any healthier

suggestions on

> what I can do about it?

>

>

>

> -

[Guest guest]

> Hi ,

> I looked up this subject, under goggle search, to see what causes

bad

> breath. Well, there are many reasons, but the most common one seems

> to be a yellowish mucous build up at the back of the tongue. This

can

> be caused by sinus drainage, however maybe in your case, since you

> drink 6 eggs which contain a lot of sulphur, the build up may be

from

> that drink.

Sheila

Thanks for the info. I suffered a cold about 2 months, and I still

have post nasal drip (why won't this thing just clear up!!!!!) It

certainly sounds like sinus drainage could be my problem here.

I've tried neti potting - it just isn't agreeing with me lately.

Jo

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/20/04 4:54:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

h2ocolor@... writes:

> A tongue scrapper might help or just

> use your toothbrush. I've had no experience with tongue scrappers,

> but maybe someone else can advise you in that department.

I've used a tongue scraper, but I find the most effective way to clean my

tongue is to brush it with MSM and a tooth brush. A tooth brush with tooth

paste

does nothing compared to MSM.

Ironically, the MSM *is* sulfur.

Chris

[Guest guest]

> Jo,

>

> Was an exaggeration. :-)

> http://www.naturalhealthconsult.com/Monographs/oliveleaf.html

> says OLE will affect certain soil born organisms in Primal Defense.

Also not

> for coumadin blood thinner, antibiotic or certain other amino acid

users.

Thanks for the info Wanita.

I can get olive leaf extract here from Solgar (about the only brand I

trust to contain what it says on the bottle). Would you mind having

a look at the ingredients and advising if this is the right kind of

thing?

Standardised Full Potency Olive Leaf Extract Vegicaps (Olea europaea)

SUGAR, SALT AND STARCH FREE · SUITABLE FOR VEGANS DIRECTIONS FOR USE:

As an herbal food supplement for adults one (1) to three (3) Vegicaps

daily, preferably at mealtime, or as directed by a healthcare

practitioner.

Each Vegicap provides: Standardised Olive Leaf Extract (6%

oleuropein) 225 mg Raw Olive Leaf Powder 225 mg In a base of PhytO2X

a (mixed tocopherols, mixed carotenoids, rosemary extract and vitamin

C). Encapsulated with natural ingredients: vegetable powdered

cellulose, magnesium stearate. Vegicaps capsule shell: vegetable

cellulose, vegetable glycerin, water. Available in bottles of 60

Vegicaps. UPC Code 4141.

Is the dosage they advise enough?

I will stop taking Primal defense while I take this. PD is the ONLY

thing that keeps my spots at bay - but as soon as I stop taking it,

the spots come back within a day or 2. Hopefully the olive leaf will

be stronger and have a more lasting effect.

I was interested to hear that OLE will kill the homeostatic soil

organisms in Primal Defense, as earlier posts here suggested that HSO

can build up in the body and cause problems. I don't know enough

about HSOs, really, only that PD does seem to help my health!

Thanks for your help

Jo

[Guest guest]

From: jopollack2001 <<I can get olive leaf extract here from Solgar (about the

only brand I trust to contain what it says on the bottle). <snip> I will stop

taking Primal defense while I take this. PD is the ONLY thing that keeps my

spots at bay - but as soon as I stop taking it, the spots come back within a day

or 2. Hopefully the olive leaf will be stronger and have a more lasting

effect.>>

Jo,

This made me wonder about using OLE topically to help with spots/acne... maybe

mixing it into a paste with yoghurt to make a facial mask ?... is OLE available

in tincture?

Dedy

[Guest guest]

,

Know what you mean. Learn to bite your tongue. Have people I care about too

that think the medical world has a fix for whatever it is and there's no

need to change a thing about lifestyle. You just hope someday they'll start

questioning.

> Oh heck, I don't know. Isn't IBD just the umbrella turn for " ongoing

> irritable gut problems we don't know the causes of? " anyway?

>

> OK, that said I do have a pretty good idea of what's going on, but she's a

> resolute SAD eater/pharmaceutical test victim, so there's nothing I can

do.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

Chris-

>Brushing with MSM is great for a clean feeling in the mouth

OK, I tried that, and the feeling I got was bitter and nasty, not clean!

>Why does poor digestion cause bad breath?

I think it can work two ways -- either noxious odors rising back up the GI

tract, or various bodily systems working imperfectly and thus leading to,

for example, oral dysbiosis.

-

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/23/04 10:03:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

Idol@... writes:

> >Brushing with MSM is great for a clean feeling in the mouth

>

> OK, I tried that, and the feeling I got was bitter and nasty, not clean!

Really? Hmm. It's definitely bitter to brush with, but I invariably find my

mouth is much fresher afterwards. Also, it takes any gross stuff off my

tongue very quickly, much more effectively than other methods I've tried.

We've discussed in the past, briefly, that different people may have

different needs for sulfur and thus a different taste for it. I, personally,

can cook

a serving of food with over a half-head of garlic, and say, " hmm, I should

have put more garlic in this. "

Chris

[Guest guest]

Chris-

>Really? Hmm. It's definitely bitter to brush with, but I invariably find my

>mouth is much fresher afterwards.

Well, I confess the bitter taste didn't last _that_ long (not like gargling

with water that has a couple drops of grapefruit seed extract in it -- that

seems to last forever) but it was very unpleasant while it

lasted. However, I'll try it again tonight and see how my breath is in the

morning.

> Also, it takes any gross stuff off my

>tongue very quickly, much more effectively than other methods I've tried.

Well, maybe that'll prove to be the ideal post-shake brush, then. I

hope. My actual teeth, though, I brush with soap, and I've found that

quite an improvement over toothpaste.

>We've discussed in the past, briefly, that different people may have

>different needs for sulfur and thus a different taste for it. I,

>personally, can cook

>a serving of food with over a half-head of garlic, and say, " hmm, I should

>have put more garlic in this. "

I too have a pretty much limitless taste for garlic, so I don't think

that's it -- at least not in my case. Though I do tend to avoid using much

just because of the bad breath factor (ordinary garlic breath in that case,

and not, I think, unusually dramatic). I'll have to look into chlorophyll,

though.

I should no doubt use my nasal irrigator much more religiously, too. Maybe

that would help reduce the mucous load and thus the breath problem. I

think it has in the past, but I haven't paid careful enough attention, and

since I made a change in my apartment I've needed it much less, even though

I know I'd still benefit from regular use.

-

[Guest guest]

> I, personally, can cook

> a serving of food with over a half-head of garlic, and say, " hmm, I should

> have put more garlic in this. "

>

> Chris

>

Cooked garlic has lost the greater part of its health benefits.

Tho' I have to admit I am just about finished the last kilo of dried garlic I

bought and have to start to look for some place to get a new supply. : -)

Bruce

[Guest guest]

> Cooked garlic has lost the greater part of its health benefits.

> Tho' I have to admit I am just about finished the last kilo of

dried garlic I

> bought and have to start to look for some place to get a new

supply. : -)

>

> Bruce

I think the Koreans have it right ... use raw garlic in kimchi, and

have it with every meal! I cook with garlic too, but fermented garlic

is just wonderful.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

>> Cooked garlic has lost the greater part of its health benefits. <<

Them's fighting words.... <G>

Cooking with garlic is my life.

Christie