Re: obesity help, pls.

[Guest guest]

I don't know if this is exactly what you are looking for or not. I am

just beginning to follow the Nourishing Traditions cookbook, but about 4

years ago our family transitioned from the Standard American diet to

less processed food and to organic foods. At that time I was about 20

pounds heavier and a couple sizes larger than I felt I should be. I

lost those 20 pounds in the first 6 months and have kept them off ever

since then. In fact I am about 7 pounds heavier than I was when I

graduated high school 19 years ago. It feels good saying that!!

Getting away from all the " extras " has really made a difference for me

and following the Nourishing Traditions cookbook, I hope to nourish my

body even better than I have in the past. For the record, we have eaten

our grass-fed, grass-finished beef, pastured poultry and eggs as well as

grassfed milk during this time as well. So our diet really doesn't have

that far to go, we just need to work on the lacto-fermentation side and

soak our grains before use and we'll be most of the way there.

This may not be what you are looking for, but it is my experience.

HTH,

Kristi

obesity help, pls.

Hi All,

I was asked to have a look at a weight loss program...

a common " slim your wallet, soy based, synth vit, sterile, meal

replacement " .

I suggested she grab a copy of Nourishing Traditions at the library,

that eating well might not only help balance her weight, but that she

could also anticipate; more energy, clarity of thought, see more

grandkids, help others, ect...plus the food is tasty.

she's not buying it...who needs to be well when you have weight to lose.

perhaps some anecdotal testimony might help...

tried searching the group archives...'s search not so helpful.

Can anyone share experience with weight loss, particularly from

an obese state, following transition to the Nourishing Traditions

lifestyle

?

many thx,

tom

[Guest guest]

I have lost 104 pounds in the last 15 months, using low carb principles but

NT foods ONLY (no low carb junk foods, no sugar alcohols, high quality foods

from local sources, raw creams and cheeses, etc). The low carb plan I follow

is Atkins.

On the one hand, simply going to NT alone did not do it for me, until I cut

the carbs and adopted the Atkins guidelines to choose my foods. However, I

have in these 15 months been on several Atkins-related lists, some with

thousands of members, and again and again I've seen that only those who

focus primarily on " real foods " have lasting success. Those who fall victim

to the low carb junk food lies so prominent in the media and marketplace

right now, don't. And neither do those people who adopt goofy, short term

solutions to their eating problems!

There is only one way to reverse obesity permanently and that is to adopt a

way of living that you feel comfortable with that supports proper metabolism

and nutrition. That's the only way, there is no other, there is no " fast

track, " there is no way to get around that. Maybe one day they'll come out

with a little pill we can take, but I wouldn't count on it. If your friend

or family member is serious about combatting obesity, she needs to throw

that whole " weight loss program " mentality right out the window and FIX THE

THINGS THAT GOT HER OBESE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Number one - do the inner work. I have no specific advice on this except to

do whatever it takes, be it therapy or a self help group or whatever. I see

a lot of people, especially women, who sabotage every effort toward change

in their lives with their unexplored and unresolved psychological issues.

Until these are dealt with, everything else will fail. And part of that

inner work has to be learning to love and accept yourself, because no one

has ever made permanent positive change in their life based on self-hatred

or self-disgust. Thinking your body is horrible is one of the first things

that will sabotage your efforts to change.

Number two - investigate the plans that are out there and select the one

that makes the most sense to you and appeals to your tastes and the way you

live your life. And ignore any that aren't lifetime changes - such as the

" pre-packaged foods " like Nutrisystem or Slimfast. That way might get some

weight off you, but it won't heal your damaged metabolism and it won't

create permanent change. The minute you go off these plans the pounds will

come back. And they'll bring friends! Some possible plans that are highly

compatible with the NT way are Atkins, Protein Power, and the Warrior Diet.

I am quite sure there are others and perhaps some of the other people on the

list will mention them. I have not investigated them but various friends

have advocated Somersize, Sugar Busters, and.... one more that I'm going

blank on right now... as being very compatible with NT principles.

Number three - make the foundation of your eating plan real foods of as high

a quality as possible. Avoid processed foods, enfoods, and all forms of

junk food.

Number four - lift weights and move your body. Once I started on Atkins, on

day one, I had so much energy I was literally running all around the house.

Activities that would have seemed literally impossible in the past became

not just possible but easy once the fog of fatigue was lifted. This is the

other thing that sets apart those who succeed on low carb and those who

fail: Using some form of resistance training to increase the amount of mucle

they have.

Using those rapid weight loss plans like Slimfast are very self-defeating,

because it's hard to build muscle while losing fat on a plan like that. The

goal of weight loss programs is not really to lose " weight, " it's to lose

BODY FAT. Simply HAVING muscle helps burn body fat, and BUIDLING muscle

burns it ever better. If she is serious about changing her body and

reversing her obesity, she has to build as much muscle tissue as she can. A

pound of muscle burns more calories just sitting around on the couch with

you than a pound of fat does, so the more muscle tissue you have anywhere in

your body, the better your metabolism will function. It's the REAL metabolic

advantage.

I'm personally a huge fan of low carb, but even if that's not the right way

for her, I firmly believe that low fat is metabolic suicide for everyone.

Our body needs quality fats to function properly, and that includes our

metabolic functions. Low fat leaves you hungry and grumpy and starved. High

fat will keep you sated and keep your metabolism burning nice and steady,

and minimize blood sugar flucuations that can lead to overeating and

fatigue. Something like the Warrior Diet, which I'm not an expert on by any

means but others on this list are, supposedly is a way you can continue to

eat moderate amounts of healthy carbohydrates without blood sugar and other

metabolic problems resulting. I don't know if I believe that it is suitable

for those who are severely obese, but I could be wrong.

I hope this is helpful!

Christie

[Guest guest]

Okay, here goes.

I am currently trying to lose 65# (don't know if that qualities for 'obese',

but I sure feel obese). One month ago I joined Weight Watchers to teach me

about portion size and number of calories to consume daily. They figure how

many 'points' you can have each day based on your weight/height and then add

in for how much you exercise. And every food has a point value. 'Course

they tell you how to eat all this processed 'fat free' junk too....so we can

still be gluttons but be thin! Weeee! ( You should've seen the leader's

face this morning at the meeting when I asked how many points were in whole

grain steel cut oatmeal, soaked in whole fat buttermilk, with a tablespoon

of raw honey! The giggles across the room were humiliating, but I know I'm

doing right by my body. And the scale says I'm doing right as well. )

Well, I have been applying the protocols of NT to my portions and points

with WW, and have dropped 5 pounds in 1 week. (Previously I only lost 1

pound a week.) Because the foods in traditional cultures *are* high fat (and

therefore higher in calories), a person trying to lose a large amount of

weight will necessarily need to eat smaller portions. The good news is that

this food is SOOO filling and satisfying. I suppose if your friend were to

completely go the NT route to lose weight, while still eating the portion

sizes she is used to, the weight would eventually drop. Unfortunately, it's

hard to stick to any change of diet if results aren't forthcoming quickly.

And for folks like me who are looking to lose a significant amount, those

numbers need to hop downward fast to keep motivated! Last winter, I was

eating 'healthy', but didn't watch portions. I was doing aerobics and

weight training 6x a week as well. I lost only 10 pounds in 6 months.....it

was coming off, but ever so slowly.

That said, I am also loosely following the recommendations in the Maker's

Diet as well (Jewish Traditional food), so I'm avoiding many NT foods as

well for a bit. My body is detoxing quickly (my sweat smells GROSS!!!!, and

I'm making several more trips to the bathroom each day...sorry, probably

more info than you wanted, lol). I learning to really 'listen' to my

body....eat only when I'm truly hungry, eat what sounds best to me at the

time (only NT foods), and eat my food SLOWLY. I have only woken up once in

the night with hunger pangs.

It takes a huge commitment to both lower calorie levels AND portions for

overweight folks. Trying to learn to follow traditional prep for raw foods

is also VERY difficult. It does work, and I believe it will work faster by

eating whole foods prepared traditionally, but most folks don't want to go

thru the trouble and considerable expense of eating this way. I know I'm

discouraged trying to find raw milk and pastured meat in my area, as well as

feeding my family of 8 with all whole foods. It's very expensive.

Anyway, combining the NT cookbook with the Weight Watchers points system, I

am losing quickly and healthfully. It is a royal pain to measure and

calculate portions and points, but when you have a weight problem, it's this

discipline that will inevitably to freedom in eating. I am already learning

to 'eye' a portion size, and have memorized lots of point values for my NT

foods. (I keep a list of the foods I prepare on the fridge, so I don't have

to keep looking them up.)

Feel free to ask any other specific questions you or she may have.

cindy

obesity help, pls.

>

> Hi All,

> I was asked to have a look at a weight loss program...

> a common " slim your wallet, soy based, synth vit, sterile, meal

> replacement " .

> I suggested she grab a copy of Nourishing Traditions at the library,

> that eating well might not only help balance her weight, but that she

> could also anticipate; more energy, clarity of thought, see more

> grandkids, help others, ect...plus the food is tasty.

> she's not buying it...who needs to be well when you have weight to lose.

>

> perhaps some anecdotal testimony might help...

> tried searching the group archives...'s search not so helpful.

>

> Can anyone share experience with weight loss, particularly from

> an obese state, following transition to the Nourishing Traditions

lifestyle

> ?

>

> many thx,

> tom

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I mentioned I was doing WW, but I also should add that I do watch my grain

carbs. I eat half of my veggies fermented as well. So I suppose I'm doing

a lower carb version of WW. I have never heard of the Warrior Diet, other

than a few posts here mentioning it. In the Maker's Diet, the author says

that tradional Jewish families at a much lower carb diet than moderns, as

well as saying some researchers believe these people ate almost 1/6th the

amount of food modern western societies eat. While I think we need

carbohydrates, we don't need much, and we definitely need to prepare them

correctly.

Congrats on your weight loss....that is so great! I hope to be at my goal

(which I don't really know what it will be, but will know it when I 'feel'

it) within 10 months. I am also beginning my weight training again, to add

to the power walking and breathing exercises I do daily. Can I ask what

your exercise regiment is currently, and how much you still want to lose?

Your story just facinates me )

cindy

Re: obesity help, pls.

> I have lost 104 pounds in the last 15 months, using low carb principles

but

> NT foods ONLY (no low carb junk foods, no sugar alcohols, high quality

foods

> from local sources, raw creams and cheeses, etc). The low carb plan I

follow

> is Atkins.

>

> On the one hand, simply going to NT alone did not do it for me, until I

cut

> the carbs and adopted the Atkins guidelines to choose my foods. However, I

> have in these 15 months been on several Atkins-related lists, some with

> thousands of members, and again and again I've seen that only those who

> focus primarily on " real foods " have lasting success. Those who fall

victim

> to the low carb junk food lies so prominent in the media and marketplace

> right now, don't. And neither do those people who adopt goofy, short term

> solutions to their eating problems!

>

> There is only one way to reverse obesity permanently and that is to adopt

a

> way of living that you feel comfortable with that supports proper

metabolism

> and nutrition. That's the only way, there is no other, there is no " fast

> track, " there is no way to get around that. Maybe one day they'll come out

> with a little pill we can take, but I wouldn't count on it. If your friend

> or family member is serious about combatting obesity, she needs to throw

> that whole " weight loss program " mentality right out the window and FIX

THE

> THINGS THAT GOT HER OBESE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

>

> Number one - do the inner work. I have no specific advice on this except

to

> do whatever it takes, be it therapy or a self help group or whatever. I

see

> a lot of people, especially women, who sabotage every effort toward change

> in their lives with their unexplored and unresolved psychological issues.

> Until these are dealt with, everything else will fail. And part of that

> inner work has to be learning to love and accept yourself, because no one

> has ever made permanent positive change in their life based on self-hatred

> or self-disgust. Thinking your body is horrible is one of the first things

> that will sabotage your efforts to change.

>

> Number two - investigate the plans that are out there and select the one

> that makes the most sense to you and appeals to your tastes and the way

you

> live your life. And ignore any that aren't lifetime changes - such as the

> " pre-packaged foods " like Nutrisystem or Slimfast. That way might get some

> weight off you, but it won't heal your damaged metabolism and it won't

> create permanent change. The minute you go off these plans the pounds will

> come back. And they'll bring friends! Some possible plans that are highly

> compatible with the NT way are Atkins, Protein Power, and the Warrior

Diet.

> I am quite sure there are others and perhaps some of the other people on

the

> list will mention them. I have not investigated them but various friends

> have advocated Somersize, Sugar Busters, and.... one more that I'm going

> blank on right now... as being very compatible with NT principles.

>

> Number three - make the foundation of your eating plan real foods of as

high

> a quality as possible. Avoid processed foods, enfoods, and all forms

of

> junk food.

>

> Number four - lift weights and move your body. Once I started on Atkins,

on

> day one, I had so much energy I was literally running all around the

house.

> Activities that would have seemed literally impossible in the past became

> not just possible but easy once the fog of fatigue was lifted. This is the

> other thing that sets apart those who succeed on low carb and those who

> fail: Using some form of resistance training to increase the amount of

mucle

> they have.

>

> Using those rapid weight loss plans like Slimfast are very self-defeating,

> because it's hard to build muscle while losing fat on a plan like that.

The

> goal of weight loss programs is not really to lose " weight, " it's to lose

> BODY FAT. Simply HAVING muscle helps burn body fat, and BUIDLING muscle

> burns it ever better. If she is serious about changing her body and

> reversing her obesity, she has to build as much muscle tissue as she can.

A

> pound of muscle burns more calories just sitting around on the couch with

> you than a pound of fat does, so the more muscle tissue you have anywhere

in

> your body, the better your metabolism will function. It's the REAL

metabolic

> advantage.

>

> I'm personally a huge fan of low carb, but even if that's not the right

way

> for her, I firmly believe that low fat is metabolic suicide for everyone.

> Our body needs quality fats to function properly, and that includes our

> metabolic functions. Low fat leaves you hungry and grumpy and starved.

High

> fat will keep you sated and keep your metabolism burning nice and steady,

> and minimize blood sugar flucuations that can lead to overeating and

> fatigue. Something like the Warrior Diet, which I'm not an expert on by

any

> means but others on this list are, supposedly is a way you can continue to

> eat moderate amounts of healthy carbohydrates without blood sugar and

other

> metabolic problems resulting. I don't know if I believe that it is

suitable

> for those who are severely obese, but I could be wrong.

>

> I hope this is helpful!

>

> Christie

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, I am very excited by your post. I'm like you were, eating NT foods

and exercising vigorously yet losing weight at the speed of mud. Probably a

half pound a week if that much. Meanwhile my weight is causing some joint

pain and other problems (i'm about 40 pounds overweight after the birth of

my second child, which was 15 months ago now!!!). I really, really need some

kind of " program " and i love the idea of checking in with someone other than

myself every week. I just didn't in a million years think NT eating could be

adopted to WW, so I'm excited to hear it can! I'm eating good food, just too

much of it. And like Christie says, I've got to figure out a way to deal

with my emotional reasons for overeating and occasionally bingeing. Sigh,

are we ever done improving?

Also, i know of several women who have gained fat by adding raw milk to

their diet.

Elaine

> Okay, here goes.

>

> I am currently trying to lose 65# (don't know if that qualities for 'obese',

> but I sure feel obese). One month ago I joined Weight Watchers to teach me

> about portion size and number of calories to consume daily. They figure how

> many 'points' you can have each day based on your weight/height and then add

> in for how much you exercise. And every food has a point value. 'Course

> they tell you how to eat all this processed 'fat free' junk too....so we can

> still be gluttons but be thin! Weeee! ( You should've seen the leader's

> face this morning at the meeting when I asked how many points were in whole

> grain steel cut oatmeal, soaked in whole fat buttermilk, with a tablespoon

> of raw honey! The giggles across the room were humiliating, but I know I'm

> doing right by my body. And the scale says I'm doing right as well. )

>

> Well, I have been applying the protocols of NT to my portions and points

> with WW, and have dropped 5 pounds in 1 week. (Previously I only lost 1

> pound a week.) Because the foods in traditional cultures *are* high fat (and

> therefore higher in calories), a person trying to lose a large amount of

> weight will necessarily need to eat smaller portions. The good news is that

> this food is SOOO filling and satisfying. I suppose if your friend were to

> completely go the NT route to lose weight, while still eating the portion

> sizes she is used to, the weight would eventually drop. Unfortunately, it's

> hard to stick to any change of diet if results aren't forthcoming quickly.

> And for folks like me who are looking to lose a significant amount, those

> numbers need to hop downward fast to keep motivated! Last winter, I was

> eating 'healthy', but didn't watch portions. I was doing aerobics and

> weight training 6x a week as well. I lost only 10 pounds in 6 months.....it

> was coming off, but ever so slowly.

[Guest guest]

>> I am also beginning my weight training again, to add

to the power walking and breathing exercises I do daily. Can I ask what

your exercise regiment is currently, and how much you still want to lose?

Your story just facinates me ) <<

, like you, I don't know what my exact goal is. I still have quite a

ways to go, however, I'm sure I am more than halfway there now.

I use a combination of a very active lifestyle - I walk several large dogs

twice a day, and garden and do lots of housework - with daily yoga (at least

15 minutes each day, and sometimes I take classes also). I don't do any

specific aerobic activity, but I do make sure I walk VERY briskly and

sometimes run a bit with the dogs, just enough to get my heart rate up and

get me sweating a little. They love it when I run with them, which is

hysterical because they are sighthounds (dogs like greyhounds) and can run

about 40 MPH, but run next to me taking these mincing little steps and kind

of jumping on me as we run. It's pretty cute. <G>

I lift weights three times a week, and alternate two basic routines right

now. One is the " White Collar Workers' Program " from Bill Pearl's book

" Getting Stronger, " which I highly recommend. I use this because I

unfortunately work at a computer and need to compensate for all those hours

spent sitting.

The other routine is this one, called " All Dumbbells, all the Time! " from my

favorite weight training website:

http://www.stumptuous.com/program8.html

I am also doing a squat challenge we started on this list the other day.

I also really like to swim, and have access in the summer to a neighbor's

pool. It takes a lot, though, for me to feel any effort or any sense of

exertion from swimming, so I'd really say this is more for fun than anything

else. I just like to swim but don't really treat it like " exercise. "

I've done other programs, including Curves, which I think was pretty helpful

to me in the beginning when I was recovering from a back injury but which is

extremely limited and inflexible, some of the other programs in Bill Pearl's

book, and a program designed for me by a trainer in the VERY beginning when

I was just strarting out after my back injury.

I think the most important thing is to select activities that you really

like and intermix them with strength training (weight lifting). A VERY

little weight lifting goes a very long way - it's really great!

Good luck to you!!!

Christie

[Guest guest]

>Using those rapid weight loss plans like Slimfast are very self-defeating,

>because it's hard to build muscle while losing fat on a plan like that. The

>goal of weight loss programs is not really to lose " weight, " it's to lose

>BODY FAT. Simply HAVING muscle helps burn body fat, and BUIDLING muscle

>burns it ever better. If she is serious about changing her body and

>reversing her obesity, she has to build as much muscle tissue as she can. A

>pound of muscle burns more calories just sitting around on the couch with

>you than a pound of fat does, so the more muscle tissue you have anywhere in

>your body, the better your metabolism will function. It's the REAL metabolic

>advantage.

I absolutely second that one! I lost weight several times on local plans

and immediately gained it back. You need to protect the muscle!

As for weight loss in general ...

1. When you start eating good food and get healthier, you can gain weight.

Esp. if you are lifting weights. The problem is, muscle weighs a lot, and

so does bone. If you start getting thicker bones and better muscles,

you can weigh more, even if you are slimmer, which is disheartening. I got

a Tanita scale, which helps, but I still get irrationally mad when I gain 2 lbs

from working out (I think the muscles swell after a workout, as they are

building new muscle they store more water).

2. A lot of folks seem to gain FAT when they start eating a good diet. This

can happen because their digestive tract is healing and they are actually

absorbing more of the food, or because they are eating more nutrient

dense foods (like butter!). Or because their mind just isn't " programmed "

for different foods. So going NT isn't an immediate way to gain weight.

3. THAT said, my family immediately lost weight when I changed our diet.

For them the big change was grains ... I stopped ALL gluten ... not to go

NT but because of my own health condition. My dh immediately dropped

20 lbs and got back to his high school weight (tho he still has ice cream

every night, big bowls of it!). However, that didn't happen for me. Grains

(the wheat/barley/rye kind) seem to be REALLY WEIRD when it comes

to the appetite and weight gain, probably because they interfere with

how the upper intestine functions. Fructose is weird too, tho for different

reasons. So Mercola's " no grain " diet can be amazingly effective (low carb

can be too, if you don't use the " fake foods " that some people do, which

are often made from purified wheat gluten).

4. For me, the " Warrior Diet " approach is working well, I've lost a lot

of weight on that (and I have more energy). There has been a lot

of discussion on this group about that, or go to www.warriordiet.com.

It is very NT compatible, and does wonders for the blood sugar issues.

There has been some good research on food cycling and blood sugar,

and it's a lot easier than normal " dieting " .

5. Food allergies in general can be a big reason for weight gain, probably

because they trigger the production of cortisol, which makes it difficult

to burn fat. Exercise helps " get rid " of the cortisol by causing other hormones

to get released, but figuring out what the allergens are works nicely.

I've been doing that mainly by keeping a food diary and experimenting, but

there are tests you can have done too. What I find is that when I react to

a food, I am AMAZINGLY hungry the next day, I just can't stop being hungry

no matter how much I eat. Which hey, obviously leads to weight gain!

So, if a food bothers you, don't eat it ... even if everyone says it is

" healthy "

and even if it is totally " NT " (Sally does talk about allergies too ... everyone

is different and a lot of it depends on your genes). The most common culprits

are wheat, corn, soy, eggs, dairy (all the stuff they call healthy!) tho for

some

folks sugars can cause allergic reactions by causing bacterial/candida growth

(and some folks are allergic to the specific bacteria or candida).

Probiotics like kefir help a lot in the allergy department, probably by helping

to heal the gut so the allergens don't " leak " into the blood (IgG allergies).

But

IgA allergies are more problematic.

Airborne allergies (the IgE ones) might also help cause weight gain ... no one

in our family has them, so I can't say much personally. But any stressor causes

cortisol production (lack of sleep being a common one!).

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

At 03:00 PM 8/3/2004, you wrote:

>I think the most important thing is to select activities that you really

>like and intermix them with strength training (weight lifting). A VERY

>little weight lifting goes a very long way - it's really great!

i have to agree with this last:

i have a set of dumbells that i keep next to my desk, actually, and for a

few minutes every hour, i just do a few reps. it's all arm exercises, which

ya know, is limited, but it's still something. i have a few different sets

of arm dumbell exercises to do, but it's all pretty standard stuff that

could easily be done in a cube (if you're in cubeville, which, gratefully,

i'm not). if you work in an open office, even better!

-katja

[Guest guest]

You know, I think we are being incorrect when we say we eat low-carb. With

the exception of more stringent programs like Atkins, i think many of us are

learning how to eat appropriate carbs. The typical american diet is just

high-carb is the problem. When people ask me if i'm eating low-carb i just

say no, i'm just not eating high-carb anymore.

Elaine

> I mentioned I was doing WW, but I also should add that I do watch my grain

> carbs.

[Guest guest]

>>>my weight is causing some joint pain and other problems ... I've got to

figure out a way to deal

with my emotional reasons for overeating and occasionally bingeing....<<<

My joint pains disappeared when I dropped sugars/whites and added fish oil.

A program that really helped me understand how food influences mood and

bingeing, etc., is Radiant Recovery - www.radiantrecovery.com

HTH,

Cheers,

Tas'.

[Guest guest]

>> My joint pains disappeared when I dropped sugars/whites and added fish

oil. <<

You know, my joint pains disappeared on my third day on Atkins also - and I

had barely lost more than a couple of pounds at that point.

Christie

[Guest guest]

hmm, well i don't have joint pain in a general sense. I have a lingering

tendon problem in an ankle i sprained over a year ago that i keep

mini-spraining. Or maybe it's tendonitis. Whatever it is it's really bugging

me and not going away and has made me take up cycling over walking. Going

grain-free and low-carb (i'm no longer grain-free) didn't seem to make any

difference at all. I think it is weight related. It is ever so slowly

getting better, as long as i stay off it for long walks.

Elaine

>>> My joint pains disappeared when I dropped sugars/whites and added fish

> oil. <<

>

> You know, my joint pains disappeared on my third day on Atkins also - and I

> had barely lost more than a couple of pounds at that point.

>

[Guest guest]

I have slowly been making my way through the recommended books on

the WAPF website (www.westonaprice.org for you newbies) and I highly

recommend the books The Schwarzbein Principle as well as Life

Without Bread. Both explain how and why high-carb and low-fat are

bad and can lead to obesity, diabetes, heart disease, digestive

disorders and cancer. Both are by MD's with years of clinical

experience. Schwarzbein says a lot about food quality in alignment

with NT while Life W/O Bread says very little about food quality but

still gets results. Between the two, Schwarzbein is a better book.

Also you might check out Mercola's Total health Cookbook as he

applies metabolic typing while still avoiding grains.

>

> Hi All,

> I was asked to have a look at a weight loss program...

> a common " slim your wallet, soy based, synth vit, sterile, meal

> replacement " .

> I suggested she grab a copy of Nourishing Traditions at the

library,

> that eating well might not only help balance her weight, but that

she

> could also anticipate; more energy, clarity of thought, see more

> grandkids, help others, ect...plus the food is tasty.

> she's not buying it...who needs to be well when you have weight to

lose.

>

> perhaps some anecdotal testimony might help...

> tried searching the group archives...'s search not so helpful.

>

> Can anyone share experience with weight loss, particularly from

> an obese state, following transition to the Nourishing Traditions

lifestyle

> ?

>

> many thx,

> tom

[Guest guest]

I didn't read the pepto bismol threads in depth but i thought you had to

eliminate all sorts of stuff with that. Eliminating foods, i'm finding,

triggers all sorts of psychological neuroses for me. I'm trying to just have

healthy versions of everything for a while. Every time i read i have to give

up something forever to cure a problem something inside me rebels with

force. I'm scared i'll have to get cancer or something to make drastic

eliminations. Being grain-free made me a little nutty so i'm taking a break

even though ideologically i agree with it (but during my break i'm eating

significantly less grain that i was before). I don't seem to have the

fortitude to give stuff up for good, even if it may be causing some niggling

health issue (which i'm quite sure is inflammation related as ibuprofen

works wonders but i rarely take it), I envy that ability in others. Maybe

i'm just expecting too much by wanting it to happen overnight. When i look

at my diet today vs. 5 years ago -- whoah!

Elaine

> I sometimes wonder of some of this is bacteria related. A person I know

> (physically) recently

> tried the Pepto Bismol diet, which I told her about because of some gut

> problems she

> was having. The PB helped that, I guess, but what was more surprising is that

> her long-term

> joint problem (which seems to be tendon related, not arthritis, and was

> triggered by

> activity) suddenly went away. She didn't change the foods she was eating much

> if at all ...

> so maybe bacterial overgrowth can trigger inflammation. That seems to jive

> with other

> anectdotal evidence I've heard. Food allergies do trigger bacterial

> overgrowth, but

> other things do too (like sugar, for some people). And giving up the " trigger "

> doesn't

> necessarily get rid of the overgrowth once it is there.

>

> Last time I had a tendon problem the doc prescribed anti-inflamatories, which

> worked

> nicely though the problem had been going on for ages. But since I've changed

> my diet,

> I really haven't had inflammation problems, though I often " overdo it "

> physically.

>

> However, losing weight sure helps too ... !

>

[Guest guest]

I sometimes wonder of some of this is bacteria related. A person I know

(physically) recently

tried the Pepto Bismol diet, which I told her about because of some gut problems

she

was having. The PB helped that, I guess, but what was more surprising is that

her long-term

joint problem (which seems to be tendon related, not arthritis, and was

triggered by

activity) suddenly went away. She didn't change the foods she was eating much if

at all ...

so maybe bacterial overgrowth can trigger inflammation. That seems to jive with

other

anectdotal evidence I've heard. Food allergies do trigger bacterial overgrowth,

but

other things do too (like sugar, for some people). And giving up the " trigger "

doesn't

necessarily get rid of the overgrowth once it is there.

Last time I had a tendon problem the doc prescribed anti-inflamatories, which

worked

nicely though the problem had been going on for ages. But since I've changed my

diet,

I really haven't had inflammation problems, though I often " overdo it "

physically.

However, losing weight sure helps too ... !

-- Heidi Jean

>hmm, well i don't have joint pain in a general sense. I have a lingering

>tendon problem in an ankle i sprained over a year ago that i keep

>mini-spraining. Or maybe it's tendonitis. Whatever it is it's really bugging

>me and not going away and has made me take up cycling over walking. Going

>grain-free and low-carb (i'm no longer grain-free) didn't seem to make any

>difference at all. I think it is weight related. It is ever so slowly

>getting better, as long as i stay off it for long walks.

>Elaine

>>>> My joint pains disappeared when I dropped sugars/whites and added fish

>> oil. <<

>>

>> You know, my joint pains disappeared on my third day on Atkins also - and I

>> had barely lost more than a couple of pounds at that point.

>>

>

>

[Guest guest]

At 05:13 PM 8/3/04 -0400, you wrote:

> At 03:00 PM 8/3/2004, you wrote:

>>I think the most important thing is to select activities that you really

>>like and intermix them with strength training (weight lifting). A VERY

>>little weight lifting goes a very long way - it's really great!

>

> i have to agree with this last:

> i have a set of dumbells that i keep next to my desk, actually, and for a

> few minutes every hour, i just do a few reps. it's all arm exercises, which

> ya know, is limited, but it's still something. i have a few different sets

> of arm dumbell exercises to do, but it's all pretty standard stuff that

> could easily be done in a cube (if you're in cubeville, which, gratefully,

> i'm not). if you work in an open office, even better!

>

> -katja

Heh. I used to use quart jars of canned tomatoes.

MFJ

If I have to be a grownup, can I at least be telekinetic too?

[Guest guest]

>> The Schwarzbein Principle<<

THAT is the one I couldn't remember in my other post!

Christie

[Guest guest]

>I didn't read the pepto bismol threads in depth but i thought you had to

>eliminate all sorts of stuff with that.

Yeah, the PB diet is about finding food intolerances (as I defined it, anyway),

but that

isn't what she's doing, I think. Which is why I found it interesting that it had

such

an effect.

> Eliminating foods, i'm finding,

>triggers all sorts of psychological neuroses for me. I'm trying to just have

>healthy versions of everything for a while. Every time i read i have to give

>up something forever to cure a problem something inside me rebels with

>force. I'm scared i'll have to get cancer or something to make drastic

>eliminations. Being grain-free made me a little nutty so i'm taking a break

>even though ideologically i agree with it (but during my break i'm eating

>significantly less grain that i was before). I don't seem to have the

>fortitude to give stuff up for good,

Neither do I. I decided I would not " give up " anything. So I still haven't given

up gluten.

Mind you I haven't eaten it knowingly for a couple of years! But if I say " you

have to give

up XYZ " then I just crave XYZ. What has happened is that I ask myself each

evening ...

" What do you really want to eat? " and the answer is usually steak or some other

kind of meat, and fried potatoes or something else. Then there is no more room

for anything else (I do vegies and fruit during the day, so I don't feel the

need to

eat more at dinner).

As for giving up grains ... I don't think most people have to give up " grains "

.... people

who are gluten sensitive should avoid gluten, because it will decidedly cause

nasty

problems in the long run. But that is different than giving up all grains. It's

fairly

easy to substitute Tinkyada pasta for regular pasta, and GF bread for regular

bread,

etc. So there's no craving involved, really, for a particular food (most people

who

eat here can't tell the difference in ingredients anyway). But what I did find

is that

the GF version set so much better (no more nausea after meals, no heartburn,

etc.)

that it's a nobrainer to prefer the GF one.

What made me start changing my diet though wasn't " fortitude " ... I just started

keeping track how I felt after meals. My goal was just to feel good after a

meal.

Some meals make me feel too full, nauseated, rumbly, etc. Once you put the

feelings together with the food, suddenly you don't WANT that food. Similarly,

I know how I feel after a good steak dinner, and that makes me want steak more!

Also I had a goal to find meals that didn't make me hungry 2 hours later,

because

I was living in a constant state of hunger and dizziness and didn't like that.

However, if you are feeling great there really is no motivation to change and

it's harder. I'd bet though, if you keep track, some meals make you feel a lot

better than others, and you might find that the foods you truly *enjoy* are

not the ones that are bad for you.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the refreshing take on it all! I am slowly finding this to be

true and, for the most part, naturally gravitate toward this kind of

eating. Just eat too much i guess. I think next i need to figure out a way

to afford to eat steak more than once a month!

> Yeah, the PB diet is about finding food intolerances (as I defined it,

> anyway), but that

> isn't what she's doing, I think. Which is why I found it interesting that it

> had such

> an effect.

What is she doing then? I actually love the taste of pepto bismol, LOl.

Elaine

[Guest guest]

>Thanks for the refreshing take on it all! I am slowly finding this to be

>true and, for the most part, naturally gravitate toward this kind of

>eating. Just eat too much i guess. I think next i need to figure out a way

>to afford to eat steak more than once a month!

Buy a chest freezer, then buy a whole cow. Really! Meat is a lot cheaper that

way.

>

>What is she doing then? I actually love the taste of pepto bismol, LOl.

>Elaine

She's just taking PB 3x a day. I'm not sure what she's eating. Dr. Fine

recommends that

to heal microscopic colitis, which causes gut distress (it seems to work, though

I'm

not sure his dosage or timing).

My recommendation is to take PD 3x a day, and

eat just meat, vegies, and fruits, for a week (all you want). It's just for a

week

and potatoes count as a vegie. Then add stuff back one at a time.

-- Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

--- In , " Elaine " <itchyink@s...>

wrote:

> hmm, well i don't have joint pain in a general sense. I have a

lingering

> tendon problem in an ankle i sprained over a year ago that i keep

> mini-spraining. Or maybe it's tendonitis.

Hi Elaine

Tendons are inelastic, so once stretched in a sprain, they do not go

back to normal length and therefore do not offer the support your

ankle needs to stay upright. I have very dodgy weak ankles, and once

ended up in the ER after a particularly bad sprain that turned my

foot black. I was then referred to a physiotherapist who got me

involved in exercises to strengthen and train the leg muscles that

replace the lost strength in the tendons. I was also referred to a

chiropodist who gave me insoles to wear for about 8-10 years which

would help correct the underlying problem that caused the initial few

sprains, ie train my feet to walk in a particular way/position.

If you would like information on the exercises that the phsyio gave

me, then I will endeavour to remember them for you - just email me

off list so others don't get bored with the detail

Jo

[Guest guest]

Hi Jo, i'm glad to know sprains just can take a long time to heal from. I've

always heard they're worse than breaks in that way. I actually saw a pt for

a short while and got some exercises. Just need to remember to do them

Elaine

> Hi Elaine

> Tendons are inelastic, so once stretched in a sprain, they do not go

> back to normal length and therefore do not offer the support your

> ankle needs to stay upright.

[Guest guest]

--- In , " Elaine " <itchyink@s...>

wrote:

> Hi Jo, i'm glad to know sprains just can take a long time to heal

from. I've

> always heard they're worse than breaks in that way. I actually saw

a pt for

> a short while and got some exercises. Just need to remember to do

them

> Elaine

Brushing your teeth while standing on 1 leg is a good one - did they

tell you that one? Great for balance!

Jo

[Guest guest]

Yes, and also to close my eyes while standing on one leg. Much harder!

Elaine

> Brushing your teeth while standing on 1 leg is a good one - did they

> tell you that one? Great for balance!