RE: High-rep or Low-rep (was Strength training and osteoporosis?)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/6/04 8:43:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

mfjewett@... writes:

> Yes, well, we all know you have a stress wish.

I'm not sure what you mean, but using heavy weights and low reps is, in

general, a much more fun way to work out, less mentally stressful, more

rewarding,

more conducive to bone development, and more conducive to strength

development. It's also less likely to cause headaches, respiratory depletion,

etc.

By the way, it's always *women* from whom I hear this statement: " I tried

lifting weights, but I hated it. " Invariably, it is always *women* to whom it

is

told " For women, you need to exercise to " tone " not to " build, " so you must

use high reps and low weight (such as 20 reps). " And, whenever I ask these

women who hated lifting weights how they lifted, they'd followed this advice.

It makes perfect sense to me, because doing so is exhausting and mentally

strenuous and simply isn't fun. It's like a chore.

In general, I stick to the rule of 5 reps as a maximum for anything

non-ballistic. I'm trying the 20-rep squat as an experiment, but by no means

endorse

it at this point. (And if it works, by all accounts its value is

mass-building, not strength-building or bone-building, etc.)

Chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/6/04 9:53:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

s.fisher22@... writes:

> LOL! I'm the *only* woman I've ever

> heard grunt while lifting at my gym. But I'm also the only one I see lifting

> heavy weights and doing low reps ;-)

Does the mirror get covered in spit when you're lifting? Sometimes I

accidentally spit all over my face when I bench press. You really use your face

a

lot when you lift heavy weights.

-chris

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/6/04 9:47:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

mfjewett@... writes:

> Great. That still means you have a stress wish.

What is a " stress wish " ? I don't understand what you mean by the term. I'm

saying that I consider high-weight low-rep lifting much less mentally and even

physically taxing in terms of negative stress (exhausting, depleting stress).

> My " starter " trainer is a woman, and somehow I don't think she's going to

> be into " toning " . I think she's way too ... " strong-willed " for that.

>

That's good, since no one who uses the term in that context has any clue what

it means. If she doesn't, that might mean she knows something about

muscle/nervous system physiology.

> Since when did you do anything non-ballistically?

Since I started weight-lifting. I've never done any ballistic exercises

until this year, and at that, only kettlebell exercises. I have not yet tried

ballistic barbell exercises.

> (is that a real word?)

Ballistic? Sure! Haven't you ever " gone ballistic " ?

> And what exactly is " mass-building " ? How is this different from building

> muscle?

It isn't-- it refers to building volume of muscle, and would be

differentiated from strength, power, and velocity gains. You could also

differentiate

between muscle volume and density, perhaps, I'm not sure. Muscle-gaining is a

good thing, but it is better to gain good muscle-- that is, to simultaneously

improve power and other aspects.

chris

[Guest guest]

> Re: High-rep or Low-rep (was Strength training and

>osteoporosis?)

>

>

>In a message dated 8/6/04 8:43:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

>mfjewett@... writes:

>

>

>> Yes, well, we all know you have a stress wish.

>

>I'm not sure what you mean, but using heavy weights and low reps is, in

>general, a much more fun way to work out,

Boy, do I second that!

>By the way, it's always *women* from whom I hear this statement: " I tried

>lifting weights, but I hated it. " Invariably, it is always

>*women* to whom it is

>told " For women, you need to exercise to " tone " not to " build, " so

>you must

>use high reps and low weight (such as 20 reps). " And, whenever I

>ask these

>women who hated lifting weights how they lifted, they'd followed

>this advice.

Yeh, it was a chore to me too when doing so many reps. On 's advice,

I increased weight and reduced reps and it's soooooo much more enjoyable and

satisfying. My secret thought is that most women don't do high weight/low

rep not because they were told otherwise, but because, in reality, they

don't like to *grunt* in mixed company. LOL! I'm the *only* woman I've ever

heard grunt while lifting at my gym. But I'm also the only one I see lifting

heavy weights and doing low reps ;-)

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

[Guest guest]

At 08:50 PM 8/6/04 EDT, you wrote:

>> Yes, well, we all know you have a stress wish.

>

>I'm not sure what you mean, but using heavy weights and low reps is, in

>general, a much more fun way to work out, less mentally stressful, more

rewarding,

>more conducive to bone development, and more conducive to strength

>development. It's also less likely to cause headaches, respiratory

depletion, etc.

Great. That still means you have a stress wish.

>

>By the way, it's always *women* from whom I hear this statement: " I tried

>lifting weights, but I hated it. " Invariably, it is always *women* to

whom it is

>told " For women, you need to exercise to " tone " not to " build, " so you must

>use high reps and low weight (such as 20 reps). " And, whenever I ask these

>women who hated lifting weights how they lifted, they'd followed this advice.

>

>It makes perfect sense to me, because doing so is exhausting and mentally

>strenuous and simply isn't fun. It's like a chore.

Well, you see, this is more interesting to me at the moment, since I've

just hired a personal trainer. I was prompted by a random comment in

that obesity thread ... decided that starting some sort of weight training

might just possibly be in my best interest. I had a choice of trying to

wade through lots of advice or just bite the bullet and get started ...

because I know absolutely NOTHING about it. Hell, I don't even bother to

read a lot of posts because I simply don't understand the terminology, much

less what you're REALLY talking about.

My " starter " trainer is a woman, and somehow I don't think she's going to

be into " toning " . I think she's way too ... " strong-willed " for that.

>

>In general, I stick to the rule of 5 reps as a maximum for anything

>non-ballistic. I'm trying the 20-rep squat as an experiment, but by no

means endorse

>it at this point. (And if it works, by all accounts its value is

>mass-building, not strength-building or bone-building, etc.)

Since when did you do anything non-ballistically?

(is that a real word?)

And what exactly is " mass-building " ? How is this different from building

muscle?

MFJ

If I have to be a grownup, can I at least be telekinetic too?

[Guest guest]

At 08:57 PM 8/6/04 -0400, you wrote:

>

>Yeh, it was a chore to me too when doing so many reps. On 's advice,

>I increased weight and reduced reps and it's soooooo much more enjoyable and

>satisfying. My secret thought is that most women don't do high weight/low

>rep not because they were told otherwise, but because, in reality, they

>don't like to *grunt* in mixed company. LOL! I'm the *only* woman I've ever

>heard grunt while lifting at my gym. But I'm also the only one I see lifting

>heavy weights and doing low reps ;-)

>

I missed this the first go 'round.

I don't mind grunting. I've been known to let out with not exactly a

rebel yell, but certainly a healthy ... shout ... at times that seemed

inappropriate to whatever unfortunates were in the area at the time. So

much for the girly-girl.

MFJ

If I have to be a grownup, can I at least be telekinetic too?

[Guest guest]

Quoting " F. Jewett " <mfjewett@...>:

> >In general, I stick to the rule of 5 reps as a maximum for anything

> >non-ballistic. I'm trying the 20-rep squat as an experiment, but by no

> means endorse

> >it at this point. (And if it works, by all accounts its value is

> >mass-building, not strength-building or bone-building, etc.)

>

> Since when did you do anything non-ballistically?

I'm not sure what you mean by that, but a " ballistic " exercise is one that

relies heavily on momentum. Cleans and snatches, for example, are

ballistic. Deadlifts, squats, and presses are not.

> (is that a real word?)

Sure, why not?

> And what exactly is " mass-building " ? How is this different from

> building muscle?

It's not. Well, technically, " mass-building " could include bone-building,

but meant muscle-building, as opposed to strength-building. The two

are only loosely related. I assume he means that he doesn't expect sets of

20 squats to make him much stronger, just prettier from the neck down.

> MFJ

> If I have to be a grownup, can I at least be telekinetic too?

Sure, why not?

Is there supposed to be some logical connection between the two? Because if

there is, it went way over my head.

--

Berg

bberg@...

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/7/04 12:04:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

cindy@... writes:

Have you read any of the Fitness Revolution? I think his protocol is called

Super Slow or some such thing. Anyhow, they do only 3-6 reps within 90 secs.

or until failure. If you can do more, then the weight is not heavy enough. It

*does* take an enormous amount of mental concentration though, which is why I

can't do it. I'm just doing the (wimpy?) 8 Minutes in the Morning routine till

I get my weight down a bit more.

That seems to me to have the exact same problems as high-reps. And the

weight must be *very* light if you can do that for 3-6 reps! When I say 5 or

fewer

reps, I mean completing the reps as fast as you can do with good form. So

the weight would be *much* heavier than weith Superslow.

It seems that the benefits of superslow would be similar to those of

isometric exercises. So why bother spending the money at the gym when you can

find

isometrics to do at the house? I'm not saying there's no benefit to it, but for

someone who doesn't have the mental stamina to do these torturously lengthy

and exhausting exercises, it's more likely to make you quit and never enjoy

working out.

-chris

[Guest guest]

At 10:17 PM 8/6/04 EDT, you wrote:

>> Great. That still means you have a stress wish.

>

>What is a " stress wish " ? I don't understand what you mean by the term. I'm

>saying that I consider high-weight low-rep lifting much less mentally and

even

>physically taxing in terms of negative stress (exhausting, depleting

stress).

>

Sure, I understand perfectly what you were trying to say. As far as

stress wish ... better that than death wish har har har. Never mind.

>> Since when did you do anything non-ballistically?

>

>Since I started weight-lifting. I've never done any ballistic exercises

>until this year, and at that, only kettlebell exercises. I have not yet

tried

>ballistic barbell exercises.

See, I was thinking the general sense of the word, not specific to certain

exercises.

MFJ

If I have to be a grownup, can I at least be telekinetic too?

[Guest guest]

At 07:21 PM 8/6/04 -0700, you wrote:

>> And what exactly is " mass-building " ? How is this different from

>> building muscle?

>

>It's not. Well, technically, " mass-building " could include bone-building,

>but meant muscle-building, as opposed to strength-building. The two

>are only loosely related. I assume he means that he doesn't expect sets of

>20 squats to make him much stronger, just prettier from the neck down.

Ah. Pretty pretty. I see.

>

>> MFJ

>> If I have to be a grownup, can I at least be telekinetic too?

>

>Sure, why not?

>

>Is there supposed to be some logical connection between the two? Because if

>there is, it went way over my head.

What does logic have to do with it? I just think it would be fun.

MFJ

If I have to be a grownup, can I at least be telekinetic too?

[Guest guest]

> Re: High-rep or Low-rep (was Strength training and

>osteoporosis?)

>

>

>In a message dated 8/6/04 9:53:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

>s.fisher22@... writes:

>

>

>> LOL! I'm the *only* woman I've ever

>> heard grunt while lifting at my gym. But I'm also the only one I

>see lifting

>> heavy weights and doing low reps ;-)

>

>Does the mirror get covered in spit when you're lifting?

Um, no. I draw the line there. LOL!

Sometimes I

>accidentally spit all over my face when I bench press. You really

>use your face a

>lot when you lift heavy weights.

I know, I think I could be the next Gilda Radner if I keep this up.

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg

Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine

http://www.westonaprice.org

----------------------------

" The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause

heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " --

Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt

University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher.

The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics

<http://www.thincs.org>

----------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

Re: High-rep or Low-rep (was Strength training and

osteoporosis?)

I'm

saying that I consider high-weight low-rep lifting much less mentally and even

physically taxing in terms of negative stress (exhausting, depleting stress).

Have you read any of the Fitness Revolution? I think his protocol is called

Super Slow or some such thing. Anyhow, they do only 3-6 reps within 90 secs. or

until failure. If you can do more, then the weight is not heavy enough. It

*does* take an enormous amount of mental concentration though, which is why I

can't do it. I'm just doing the (wimpy?) 8 Minutes in the Morning routine till I

get my weight down a bit more.