Guest guest Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 ---Wonder what the Brix reading is on a drop of Pepsi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 > I found a blackberry today with a reading of 5 and others with > readings of 8,9,11, and even 14. I tasted them all.I didn't do a > triangle test though.So that test is just my unofficial opinion. The > 5 was not nearly as sweeet as the 11 and 14. I'd consider them all > vine ripened. I'm not real sure Brix tells you the item is full of > nutrients or that 14 has more nutrients than 5. Brix is measured > with a refractometer which measures crystals, XXXXXXXX This needs expanded upon and I am merely pointing out, at this time, this is an oversimplification of what the Brix reading measures relative to plant leaf, sap, and fruit analyses. Anyone with info feel free to enlighten me here. Dennis Kemnitz as in sugar or salt. > I've discussed this before and while I am not an expert on > refractometers, I don't know how Brix correlates to nutrient > content. Haven't had a chance to read and filter brix talk Suze > mentioned but have had several instrumentation classes.I've > read " high " Brix plants are healthy in that bugs don't eat them > whatever hi is. The pigweed leaves in the OP corn patch yesterdey > read 5 or 6 and my corn leaf read 4 1/2. Dan Skow says the weed > shouldn't have higher Brix than the crop and has recommendations for > the problem in Farming in the 21st Century. Takes money and time for > sure, to even try this suggestion. He is at International Ag labs in > Minnesota I believe. This all leads to a lot of experimentation > which is costly esp if very little saleable or even very little > usable product is grown and I have to eat weeds. We have edible weeds > too and the milk cow prefers them to grass when they're highly > palatable. Probably she likes the minerals in them too. Salatin > calls it salad bar beef when the livestock roam around the farm > eating what they prefer. This takes more acreage so costs more for > land, taxes,fence building, etc and brings prices up again.Weeds are > only in an edible state a short time so it's hard to keep a critter > full on the short season weeds. Livestock have to have nutrients when > weeds aren't palatable and in season. So agronomists " invented " > otherstuff I suppose. Long season grasses,hybrids, etc. Wheat is even > grazed for several months in fall and in spring. and If not > overgrazed it will have berries for harvesting in June in KS. Some > farmers know what Brix reading is great and even what Brix is minimal > at various stages of growth. But that is " top secret " info I think > and I'm not sure of nutrient content in that hi Brix crop. Such as > Full of nutrients, or high in folic acid, or high in protein, or hi > in B vitamins. etc. Regards, Dennis Kemnitz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2004 Report Share Posted July 16, 2004 >XXXXXXXX This needs expanded upon and I am merely pointing out, at >this time, this is an oversimplification of what the Brix reading >measures relative to plant leaf, sap, and fruit analyses. Anyone >with info feel free to enlighten me here. Dennis Kemnitz I'm not a farmer so I can't comment on sap readings, but Brix is used for testing grapes, to see if they have good sugar for making nice high-alcohol wine. And to see if fruit is ripe ... i.e. high sugar. So your comment about Pepsi is cute! As for sap being high brix, that would mean there is lots of " stuff " dissolved in the sap, vs. watery sap, so it could make sense a healthier plant would have different readings than one that wasn't healthy ... of course a dehydrated plant would read differently too. I think putting too much weight on *one* measurement is never really good, that's what got us into this mess with low-nutrient crops in the first place ... the breeders concentrated on ONE trait and ignored the rest (the same problem happens in show dogs ...). All these measurements are useful though ... we just got into changing the PH of our soil, for our blueberries, which never have done very well. This year they are incredibly happy, green, have huge leaves ... -- Heidi Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 Why do you think Brix measures nutrients in veggies and only sugar in pepsi? > > > Re: Re: Brix ramblings > > > > > > > >>XXXXXXXX This needs expanded upon and I am merely pointing out, at > >>this time, this is an oversimplification of what the Brix reading > >>measures relative to plant leaf, sap, and fruit analyses. Anyone > >>with info feel free to enlighten me here. Dennis Kemnitz > > > >I'm not a farmer so I can't comment on sap readings, but > >Brix is used for testing grapes, to see if they have good > >sugar for making nice high-alcohol wine. And to see if fruit > >is ripe ... i.e. high sugar. So your comment about Pepsi is > >cute! > > Cute, but not relevant. There's no nutrition to be measured in Pepsi. You'd > only be measuring the sugar content, which is already listed on the can. > > > > >As for sap being high brix, that would mean there is > >lots of " stuff " dissolved in the sap, vs. watery sap, > >so it could make sense a healthier plant would have > >different readings than one that wasn't healthy ... of course > >a dehydrated plant would read differently too. I think > >putting too much weight on *one* measurement is never > >really good, that's what got us into this mess with low-nutrient > >crops in the first place ... the breeders concentrated on ONE > >trait and ignored the rest (the same problem happens in show > >dogs ...). > > Brix measures *total* nutrient content, not just sugar. Farmers use it in > conjunction with soil testing, observations on pest, weed and disease > pressure, and so on, as my last post illustrated. The refractometer is a > part of a successful growing program - for many - an essential part. > > > > > Suze Fisher > Lapdog Design, Inc. > Web Design & Development > http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg > Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine > http://www.westonaprice.org > > ---------------------------- > " The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause > heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " - - > Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt > University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher. > > The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics > <http://www.thincs.org> > ---------------------------- > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 17, 2004 Report Share Posted July 17, 2004 --- I agree Heidi. Dennis Kemnitz In , Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@t...> wrote: > : > >Cute, but not relevant. There's no nutrition to be measured in Pepsi. You'd > >only be measuring the sugar content, which is already listed on the can. > > The point is, if you are measuring " substance A " the brix reading > alone doesn't show it's " nutrition " ... just the dissolved solids, > which can be an indicator and can be helpful, just like > a PH reading is, but it doesn't prove it is good for you. > > >Brix measures *total* nutrient content, not just sugar. Farmers use it in > >conjunction with soil testing, observations on pest, weed and disease > >pressure, and so on, as my last post illustrated. The refractometer is a > >part of a successful growing program - for many - an essential part. > > It measures dissolved chemicals ... which may or may not be " nutrients " > (as per the Pepsi example). So yeah, it would be useful in conjunction > with a lot of other stuff ... but in this discussion of " how to get > high Brix produce " there seems to be a huge emphasis on Brix as a > standalone measure of " nutrition " ... maybe there is an underlying > assumption that " high brix " means " healthy, pest free, good for you " > (like there is an underlying assumption that " nutritious " doesn't mean > table sugar, even though technically it is a nutrient)? I don't think " high brix " > produce is necessarily better for you, it could just be bred for a nice > sweet taste, like the new hybrid corn varieties .. > > -- Heidi Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 In a message dated 7/16/04 3:15:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, heidis@... writes: > it could just be bred for a nice > sweet taste, like the new hybrid corn varieties .. Isn't that why Chi said brix is invalid with hybrid plants? Obviously, " ceteris paribus, " brix is a good general indicator of nutrition, but is not, when the substance has a modified sugar content. (Added to Pepsi, bred into corn, etc) Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 In a message dated 7/16/04 10:55:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dkemnitz2000@... writes: > Why do you think Brix measures nutrients in veggies and only sugar in > pepsi? Cause there's no nutrients in Pepsi (for the most part), and because there's no correlation with its sugar content and it's nutrient content (like there apparently is for plants, when they aren't bred to be otherwise.) Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 02:49:11 -0000 " dkemnitz2000 " <dkemnitz2000@...> wrote: > Why do you think Brix measures nutrients in veggies and only sugar in > pepsi? Perhaps because there are NO nutrients to speak of in Pepsi? Something to think about. War, the God That Failed http://tinyurl.com/2npch " They told just the same, That just because a tyrant has the might By force of arms to murder men downright And burn down house and home and leave all flat They call the man a captain, just for that. But since an outlaw with his little band Cannot bring half such mischief on the land Or be the cause of so much harm and grief, He only earns the title of a thief. " --Geoffrey Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 > RE: Re: Brix ramblings > > > : >>Cute, but not relevant. There's no nutrition to be measured in >Pepsi. You'd >>only be measuring the sugar content, which is already listed on the can. > >The point is, if you are measuring " substance A " the brix reading >alone doesn't show it's " nutrition " ... just the dissolved solids, >which can be an indicator and can be helpful, just like >a PH reading is, but it doesn't prove it is good for you. I don't see this as comparable whatsoever. pH tells you next to nothing about the nutrient content of plants, whereas brix is a solid indicator of nutrient content. The caveat is it's not so accurate with *hybrids* as Chi mentioned simply because they are too imbalanced in nutrient content to begin with. While high brix readings don't *prove* a particular plant is good for you, experienced farmers/gardeners, consultants and others in the ag biz who use them regularly assert that high brix readings do indeed correlate with higher nutrient values - they certainly correspond with higher fertility soil! And there is a direct correlation between high fertility soil and high nutrient plants. Additionally, as I've mentioned before, high brix plants (just like healthy bodies) are far more resistant to disease and pests, so using a modicum of deductive reasoning you can deduce that high brix = high nutrient content. As well, Reams apparently did testing that showed higher brix = higher nutrition. The example that Rex Harrill gives is that Reams found the highest brixing carrots had 200 mgs iodine and the lowest brixing ones had 1 mg idioine. > >>Brix measures *total* nutrient content, not just sugar. Farmers use it in >>conjunction with soil testing, observations on pest, weed and disease >>pressure, and so on, as my last post illustrated. The refractometer is a >>part of a successful growing program - for many - an essential part. > >It measures dissolved chemicals ... which may or may not be " nutrients " >(as per the Pepsi example). This is a completely false argument. You are comparing " x " (sugar) to abcxyz (full spectrum of dissolved solids in plant sap). Pepsi doesn't contain any other dissolved solids besides sugar (and maybe the flavoring). Plant sap contains a wide variety of dissolved solids. Comparing Pepsi to, say, broccoli in terms of the nature of the dissolved solids is pointless. One contains only sugar (x), and the other contains vitamins, minerals, fatty acids, amino acids, sugar, etc (abcxyz). So yeah, it would be useful in conjunction >with a lot of other stuff ... but in this discussion of " how to get >high Brix produce " there seems to be a huge emphasis on Brix as a >standalone measure of " nutrition " ... maybe there is an underlying >assumption that " high brix " means " healthy, pest free, good for you " >(like there is an underlying assumption that " nutritious " doesn't mean >table sugar, even though technically it is a nutrient)? It's not an assumption when it's been proven over and over again in practice. It's one of those repeatable things that take it *beyond* assumption. I don't >think " high brix " >produce is necessarily better for you, it could just be bred for a nice >sweet taste, like the new hybrid corn varieties .. IF it's a hybrid, that's true. That's why it's not worth measuring hybrids (why would you eat them anyway if you care about nutrition?). But high brix does indeed indicate which open pollinated produce that is better for you. There are several other health indices that routinely correspond to high brix as mentioned above (taste, yield, high soil fertility, pest, weed and disease resistance, durability in storage, etc) that all look like a duck, sound like one and walk like one... Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine http://www.westonaprice.org ---------------------------- " The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " -- Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher. The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics <http://www.thincs.org> ---------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 > Re: Brix ramblings > I don't know how Brix correlates to nutrient >> content. Haven't had a chance to read and filter brix talk Suze >> mentioned but have had several instrumentation classes.I've >> read " high " Brix plants are healthy in that bugs don't eat them >> whatever hi is. I believe it's typically *12* and not just in one part of the plant, but consistent readings of 12 throughout the plant. Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine http://www.westonaprice.org ---------------------------- “The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” -- Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher. The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics <http://www.thincs.org> ---------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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