Re: Tomato Hornworms

[Guest guest]

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Where's Mike Anton when you need him?

I've just discovered that my tomato patch has been invaded by tomato

hornworms - some the size of my index finger! Reluctantly, I threw ten of

them in the pond, but I'd really like to know how to prepare this obvious

gastronomical delight for the future - fried, baked, poached? Raw?

and the K9's

@@@@

Hi ,

I think those are the same thing as corn earworms. My only experience

with corn earworms has been eating them raw. They're quite delicious,

and probably at least as nutritious as the veggie they're feeding off.

They are nice, clean animals to eat raw, unlike shrimp, crabs, etc.

As far as cooking them, I would be gentle, because if they split open

their insides will probably just ooze out all over. When I've eaten

them there's a juicy squirt after the first bite--their insides are

very liquidy. It's common to fry worms, but I'm not into frying

myself, so if I cooked them I'd probably steam or bake them. You

should just experiment and report the results. I can't see how you

could wrong with any method.

The size of your index finger! Wow, you're lucky! I will visit my

local organic veggie farmer's tomato patch soon to look for some. I

haven't been to his patch this summer yet.

Mike

SE Pennsylvania

The best way to predict the future is to invent it. --Alan Kay

[Guest guest]

At 12:15 PM 8/21/04 -0400, you wrote:

>Hi ,

>I think those are the same thing as corn earworms.

No, they're not (well, I suppose if you were talking in terms of

essentially a worm/caterpillar-type thing, then they are). You'd have a

lot of fun with hornworms - plus they're such an interesting and pretty

shade of green!

Hmmmmmmm ... that's a point to consider if cooking them ... I wonder what

color they'd end up?

>The size of your index finger! Wow, you're lucky! I will visit my

>local organic veggie farmer's tomato patch soon to look for some. I

>haven't been to his patch this summer yet.

You must, you must. The season may be nearing its end ... although at

least you'd probably have a better chance of finding some nice big 'uns at

this time.

MFJ

If I have to be a grownup, can I at least be telekinetic too?

[Guest guest]

It doesn't appear that my recipe book is handy so I'll just stick

to general advice. First, put them in an decent-sized container with

plenty of fresh greens. This will help them expell any tomato tissue

that they might have in their guts. Give this a day. The next step I'm

not certain of, but most cultures then squeeze the caterpillar or grub

to extrude the digestive system (which, again, can be filled with toxic

plant material). After that, the caterpillars are generally fried or

boiled and dried for later use. With exo-skeletal arthropods (i.e.,

crickets, mealworms, etc.), I generally recommend boiling first then

oven-baking at a low temperature with spices. Without this boiling, it

often seems like they " bleed " onto the baking tray an that creates an

unholy stench. Grub and caterpillars tend to have a much more chewy

exterior. I'd probably recommend a boil and dry then chop up in a soup

or deep fry for a pork rind effect (yes, they will puff up. Personally,

I'm not overly fond of the greasy texture but I've only tried it once or

twice.

Geoffrey Tolle

Pugh wrote:

> Where's Mike Anton when you need him?

>

> I've just discovered that my tomato patch has been invaded by tomato

> hornworms - some the size of my index finger! Reluctantly, I threw

> ten of

> them in the pond, but I'd really like to know how to prepare this obvious

> gastronomical delight for the future - fried, baked, poached? Raw?

>

> and the K9's

>

[Guest guest]

They are not the same insect. Also, keep in mind that no part of

the corn plant is notably toxic to humans. Corn earworms can be eaten

raw (the Aztecs reportedly loved them more than the corn itself for

fresh eats and probably often ate them raw). Tomato hornworms, however,

eat of the toxic tomato. Best to process them first.

Geoffrey Tolle

Anton wrote:

> Hi ,

> I think those are the same thing as corn earworms. My only experience

> with corn earworms has been eating them raw. They're quite delicious,

> and probably at least as nutritious as the veggie they're feeding off.

> They are nice, clean animals to eat raw, unlike shrimp, crabs, etc.

> As far as cooking them, I would be gentle, because if they split open

> their insides will probably just ooze out all over. When I've eaten

> them there's a juicy squirt after the first bite--their insides are

> very liquidy. It's common to fry worms, but I'm not into frying

> myself, so if I cooked them I'd probably steam or bake them. You

> should just experiment and report the results. I can't see how you

> could wrong with any method.

>

> The size of your index finger! Wow, you're lucky! I will visit my

> local organic veggie farmer's tomato patch soon to look for some. I

> haven't been to his patch this summer yet.

>

> Mike

> SE Pennsylvania

[Guest guest]

At 01:33 PM 8/22/04 -0400, you wrote:

> They are not the same insect. Also, keep in mind that no part of

>the corn plant is notably toxic to humans. Corn earworms can be eaten

>raw (the Aztecs reportedly loved them more than the corn itself for

>fresh eats and probably often ate them raw). Tomato hornworms, however,

>eat of the toxic tomato. Best to process them first.

>

> Geoffrey Tolle

Question from curiosity ... when you refer to " toxic tomato plant " , you are

referring to the leaves? I vaguely recall something about there being

bad stuff for humans in the leaves/stems, but I don't remember exactly what

those compounds were. Other than contributing to that distinctive

tomato-leaf smell ... which personally, I hate, but recently found someone

who loves it. Then again, she's kind of a toxic personality, so maybe

that makes sense. :-D

MFJ

Everything connects. The Universe is not THAT chaotic. Beauty can

still be found in the most amazing places.

[Guest guest]

Everything about the tomato, except the fruit, should be considered

poisonous. The toxic principle is, for the most part, a group of

compounds called solanines (I think that's right). I'm not exactly sure

what they are chemically but they are not particularly heat sensitive

and they don't dilute out in the cooking water. This is also what makes

potato plants poisonous.

Personally, I agree with you. I'm not fond of the smell of the

tomato plant either. I do not believe that the odour is related to solanine.

Geoffrey Tolle

F. Jewett wrote:

> Question from curiosity ... when you refer to " toxic tomato plant " ,

> you are

> referring to the leaves? I vaguely recall something about there being

> bad stuff for humans in the leaves/stems, but I don't remember exactly

> what

> those compounds were. Other than contributing to that distinctive

> tomato-leaf smell ... which personally, I hate, but recently found someone

> who loves it. Then again, she's kind of a toxic personality, so maybe

> that makes sense. :-D

[Guest guest]

Other than contributing to that distinctive

> tomato-leaf smell ... which personally, I hate, but recently found someone

> who loves it. Then again, she's kind of a toxic personality, so maybe

> that makes sense. :-D

>

>

That's funny, I like the smell of tomato plants too.

It's the taste of raw tomatoes I hate.

I can't see why anyone eats them that way, just awful, yuk! lol.

: o)

Bruce

[Guest guest]

Have you ever tried tomatoes grown in a sun drenched country?... delicious!!...

the ones grown in green houses or polytunnels just taste like plastic... I'd

rather go without than eat those.

Dedy

From: Bruce Stordock <<That's funny, I like the smell of tomato plants too.

It's the taste of raw tomatoes I hate. I can't see why anyone eats them that

way, just awful, yuk! lol. : o)

[Guest guest]

At 06:11 PM 8/22/04 -0600, you wrote:

>That's funny, I like the smell of tomato plants too.

>It's the taste of raw tomatoes I hate.

>I can't see why anyone eats them that way, just awful, yuk! lol.

>

>: o)

>Bruce

LOL. Those nightshades will get ya every time. :-D

MFJ

Everything connects. The Universe is not THAT chaotic. Beauty can

still be found in the most amazing places.

[Guest guest]

Well, I love tomatoes, raw or cooked, and I *love* the smell of tomato plants. I

think it's a great leafy vegetation smell (but not a smell that makes me want to

eat the leaves, of course!).

The tomato hornworms and corn earworms are totally different creatures, as has

been mentioned. Hornworms get HUGE and are big and green and look very

*squishy*. I could never eat one raw. A little corn earworm I could probably eat

raw.

http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/CoopExt/4DMG/Pests/tomato.htm

I used to pick these off my dad's tomato plants.

Incidentally, the tomato hornworm is almost identical to the tobacco hornworm.

Tomato, tobacco are both members of the Solanaceae family (nightshade). All

these plants are toxic, but we eat many of their fruits. Yum yum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solanaceae

Tom

[Guest guest]

> Everything about the tomato, except the fruit, should be considered

>poisonous. The toxic principle is, for the most part, a group of

>compounds called solanines (I think that's right). I'm not exactly sure

>what they are chemically but they are not particularly heat sensitive

>and they don't dilute out in the cooking water. This is also what makes

>potato plants poisonous.

You know, it would be a good idea to research hornworms before eating them,

for this reason. Some animals that dine on poisonous plants concentrate the

toxin

in their tissues, as defense against getting eaten. So just having the hornworm

eat nontoxic foods might not be enough to " clean them out " (if indeed they WILL

eat anything but tomato plants ... I used to raise the hornworms to get the

moths,

which are wonderful, and to " save " them from my mother who insisted on killing

the worms which destroyed her plants ...).

Tomatoes belong to the nightshade family, and were thought for a long time

to be toxic, as most nightshades are.

>

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

At 10:32 AM 8/23/04 -0700, you wrote:

>You know, it would be a good idea to research hornworms before eating them,

>for this reason. Some animals that dine on poisonous plants concentrate

the toxin

>in their tissues, as defense against getting eaten. So just having the

hornworm

>eat nontoxic foods might not be enough to " clean them out " (if indeed they

WILL

>eat anything but tomato plants ... I used to raise the hornworms to get

the moths,

>which are wonderful, and to " save " them from my mother who insisted on

killing

>the worms which destroyed her plants ...).

>

>Tomatoes belong to the nightshade family, and were thought for a long time

>to be toxic, as most nightshades are.

Actually, I forgot to mention that even if one were going to harvest and

eat the hornworms, to make sure to leave the guys with all the little white

thingies hanging off them alone ... larvae of a beneficial insect that I

can't remember the name of. Braconid wasp? Something like that.

Very good guy.

MFJ

Everything connects. The Universe is not THAT chaotic. Beauty can

still be found in the most amazing places.

[Guest guest]

At 12:29 PM 8/23/04 -0500, you wrote:

>Well, I love tomatoes, raw or cooked, and I *love* the smell of tomato

plants. I think it's a great leafy vegetation smell (but not a smell that

makes me want to eat the leaves, of course!).

>

>The tomato hornworms and corn earworms are totally different creatures, as

has been mentioned. Hornworms get HUGE and are big and green and look very

*squishy*. I could never eat one raw. A little corn earworm I could

probably eat raw.

>

>http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/CoopExt/4DMG/Pests/tomato.htm

>I used to pick these off my dad's tomato plants.

>

>Incidentally, the tomato hornworm is almost identical to the tobacco

hornworm. Tomato, tobacco are both members of the Solanaceae family

(nightshade). All these plants are toxic, but we eat many of their fruits.

Yum yum. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solanaceae

>

>Tom

Peppers are nightshades too ... but I don't remember anything about

specific toxicity of the plants (v. fruit) on them?

MFJ

Everything connects. The Universe is not THAT chaotic. Beauty can

still be found in the most amazing places.

[Guest guest]

I know from several insect cookbooks that the tomato hormworm is

edible. It may even be a native american food. Toxin accumulation is

something that I considered when I discussed this earlier but

references to eating them without ill effects (or, I presume,

digestive tracks) make them likely to be safe to eat within limits.

Keep in mind that they are unlikely to constitute a large portion of

your diet even when they are in season so any toxic effects are

probably no more than your average non-green table potato or green

tomato.

I might also add that my 1 day delay is more to give the

hornworms a chance to expell toxic wastes than to let them eat more.

Even if you remove the intestines the extra precaution of waiting a

day seems prudent.

Geoffrey Tolle

> You know, it would be a good idea to research hornworms

> before eating them, for this reason. Some animals that

> dine on poisonous plants concentrate the toxin in their

> tissues, as defense against getting eaten. So just

> having the hornworm eat nontoxic foods might not be

> enough to " clean them out " (if indeed they WILL eat

> anything but tomato plants.

[Guest guest]

> I know from several insect cookbooks that the tomato hormworm is

>edible. It may even be a native american food. Toxin accumulation is

>something that I considered when I discussed this earlier but

>references to eating them without ill effects (or, I presume,

>digestive tracks) make them likely to be safe to eat within limits.

>Keep in mind that they are unlikely to constitute a large portion of

>your diet even when they are in season so any toxic effects are

>probably no more than your average non-green table potato or green

>tomato.

>

> I might also add that my 1 day delay is more to give the

>hornworms a chance to expell toxic wastes than to let them eat more.

>Even if you remove the intestines the extra precaution of waiting a

>day seems prudent.

>

> Geoffrey Tolle

Good research! Thanks for the specifics.

Heidi Jean