Re: Fat cells and Time Magazine

[Guest guest]

> In a message dated 9/9/04 10:52:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> heidis@... writes:

> So basically, the *normal* human way of eating is to eat til

> you get full, from foods that look good. Given that everything functions

> normally, and the food choices are all decent, that algorithm works fine.

> The idea that we have to regulate consciously the amount and types

> of food we eat is a purely abnormal, modern construct. Like Price

> said, an animal eating the food it was designed to eat never gets fat.

I'm not convinced that its modern but it certainly is abnormal, IMO. And

I assume you mean food since I don't think most of us can consciously

regulate our metabolism.

> Some folks DO manage to stay awake for long periods ... and start

> hallucinating!

> There are also folks who, for some unknown reason, don't seem to need

> to sleep. There are also folks who can fast for 60 days ... the hunger seems

> to

> stop after a certain point.

The hunger in fasting stops for all people after a few days, with

extremely few exceptions. It is when the hunger returns and stays that

it is time to break a fast, and I'm assuming you are referring to a

liquid fast of some sort.

But anyone who can make it past the first few days can fast at some

length, especially on juice. Whether they want to or not is an entirely

different story

>But really, if you've ever talked to someone who

> is REALLY overweight and tried everything, these are not people with lack

> of motivation. This also obviously isn't something you've stuggled with

> personally.

What do you mean by tried everything? Really overweight people will lose

weight by fasting for more than a few days. Do you have any references

that suggest otherwise?

> Certainly people *could* be more careful about their diet etc.

> but those are individual choices, not really applicable on a large

> scale unless you are making the point that we have suddenly become

> less careful about eating. I'm really not trying to make the point

> that humans have no free will.

I'm not trying to intrude in this aspect of your discussion with

but from where I sit it certainly reads that way. Is there in your

worldview a sin known as gluttony, or is that not a possible moral

choice by your reckoning? Or do you even believe in the concept of sin?

You don't have to give me a long answer, a yes or no will suffice. In

fact you don't have to answer me at all. I'm not looking to debate you

on this point :-)

And maybe you clarify this point in a post I haven't read yet.

> Sure, like I said, I'm not saying there is no " will " . You can't know though,

> what

> is " overwhelming " for another person, or what their will level is.

> Schizophrenia was, in the past, considered a moral problem, lack of will.

I agree that historically in societies influenced by Christianity that

schizophrenia has been considered a spiritual problem, but where did you

come up with the idea that they deemed it occurred because of a " lack of

will " or what exactly do you mean by that statement?

> Now it's known to be chemical. In " A Beautiful Mind " the man manages

> to live a normal life by ignoring his hallucinations. But these bits of

> courage don't change the epidemiological profile of a population. If country

> A gets schizophrenia a lot and country B does not, country B is doing

> something

> right (as the percentage of people with lots of will power and courage

> is likely the same in both countries).

It is not " known " to be chemical, it is thought to be chemical in today's

current scientific milieu. That may or may not be true in the future.

The studies, when closely examined, are hardly conclusive, although the

modern mantra is that it is *only* chemical in nature.

The chemical and spiritual aspects of schizophrenia are not mutually

exclusive. There is plenty of Christian Tradition that points out that

behaviors and lifestyles (like occultism) can lead to undue influence on

behavior from an unseen though quite real realm.

Tradition also points out that people can develop what we would call

" psychic " problems and these do have real

*physical* manifestations and impacts. Physical problems can and often

do have psycho/social/spiritual roots. What is interesting in reading

the life of Christ is how much disease he encountered and healed that

was *not* rooted in a physical problem but had a physical

*manifestation*.

But my point is not to debate the truth or falsity of the claim, only

to point out that the chemical cause on its own may not entirely

explain the problem of schizophrenia.

Kick the Habit: Don't Vote!

http://tinyurl.com/439vl

Eat fat, get thin... lift big, get small.

" They told just the same,

That just because a tyrant has the might

By force of arms to murder men downright

And burn down house and home and leave all flat

They call the man a captain, just for that.

But since an outlaw with his little band

Cannot bring half such mischief on the land

Or be the cause of so much harm and grief,

He only earns the title of a thief. "

--Geoffrey Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale

[Guest guest]

Heidi and wrote:

>> Sure, like I said, I'm not saying there is no " will " . You can't know

>> though,

>> what

>> is " overwhelming " for another person, or what their will level is.

>> Schizophrenia was, in the past, considered a moral problem, lack of will.

>

> I agree that historically in societies influenced by Christianity that

> schizophrenia has been considered a spiritual problem, but where did you

> come up with the idea that they deemed it occurred because of a " lack of

> will " or what exactly do you mean by that statement?

>

>> Now it's known to be chemical. In " A Beautiful Mind " the man manages

>> to live a normal life by ignoring his hallucinations. But these bits of

>> courage don't change the epidemiological profile of a population. If

>> country

>> A gets schizophrenia a lot and country B does not, country B is doing

>> something

>> right (as the percentage of people with lots of will power and courage

>> is likely the same in both countries).

>

> It is not " known " to be chemical, it is thought to be chemical in today's

> current scientific milieu. That may or may not be true in the future.

>

> The studies, when closely examined, are hardly conclusive, although the

> modern mantra is that it is *only* chemical in nature.

>

> The chemical and spiritual aspects of schizophrenia are not mutually

> exclusive. There is plenty of Christian Tradition that points out that

> behaviors and lifestyles (like occultism) can lead to undue influence on

> behavior from an unseen though quite real realm.

>

> Tradition also points out that people can develop what we would call

> " psychic " problems and these do have real

> *physical* manifestations and impacts. Physical problems can and often

> do have psycho/social/spiritual roots. What is interesting in reading

> the life of Christ is how much disease he encountered and healed that

> was *not* rooted in a physical problem but had a physical

> *manifestation*.

>

> But my point is not to debate the truth or falsity of the claim, only

> to point out that the chemical cause on its own may not entirely

> explain the problem of schizophrenia.

Been a while since I saw " A Beautiful Mind " IIRC all he ate in college was

pizza and beer and that was when his non existant roomate got him out of his

room to eat. T.S. Wiley in Light's Out says schizophrenia is diabetes or

insulin resistance of the brain which ties in with the carbohydrates. Nobel

Prize winner movie was about came from West Virginia which has some of the

poorest soil in the country. Although he never came out of it 100% some of

the improvement likely had to do with better meals once he got married and

lived in the Northeast.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

>Been a while since I saw " A Beautiful Mind " IIRC all he ate in college was

>pizza and beer and that was when his non existant roomate got him out of his

>room to eat. T.S. Wiley in Light's Out says schizophrenia is diabetes or

>insulin resistance of the brain which ties in with the carbohydrates. Nobel

>Prize winner movie was about came from West Virginia which has some of the

>poorest soil in the country. Although he never came out of it 100% some of

>the improvement likely had to do with better meals once he got married and

>lived in the Northeast.

>

>Wanita

I know someone personally with a schizophrenic son, and she " cured " him with

diet. The GF/CF thing really worked for that guy ... he is living a normal life

now,

as long as he sticks to the diet. When he doesn't, he hallucinates. Which

doesn't

let nutrition off the hook at all (he was likely low in nutrients too) but the

college diet is not only carb heavy but extremely wheat heavy. I got very sick

when I left home for the same reasons ... when Mom cooked it was meat and

vegies, but when you live with roomies, it's pizza and sandwiches.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

>

>>Been a while since I saw " A Beautiful Mind " IIRC all he ate in college was

>>pizza and beer and that was when his non existant roomate got him out of

>>his

>>room to eat. T.S. Wiley in Light's Out says schizophrenia is diabetes or

>>insulin resistance of the brain which ties in with the carbohydrates.

>>Nobel

>>Prize winner movie was about came from West Virginia which has some of the

>>poorest soil in the country. Although he never came out of it 100% some of

>>the improvement likely had to do with better meals once he got married and

>>lived in the Northeast.

>>

>>Wanita

>

> I know someone personally with a schizophrenic son, and she " cured " him

> with

> diet. The GF/CF thing really worked for that guy ... he is living a normal

> life now,

> as long as he sticks to the diet. When he doesn't, he hallucinates. Which

> doesn't

> let nutrition off the hook at all (he was likely low in nutrients too) but

> the

> college diet is not only carb heavy but extremely wheat heavy. I got very

> sick

> when I left home for the same reasons ... when Mom cooked it was meat and

> vegies, but when you live with roomies, it's pizza and sandwiches.

>

> Heidi Jean

Likely why 1 in 5 in college now end up on Prozac or other antidepressants.

In 's metabolic research his patient with the lowest, very acidic

blood plasma ph was schizophrenic and no longer was after the protein type

diet raised her ph to normal. He says no dairy and little grains 30 years

ago. They use up acetate faster. Insufficient acetate produces abnormal

psychology reaction. With more processing, more grain feeding and higher

gluten strains over the last 30 years reactions will not decrease.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

> Likely why 1 in 5 in college now end up on Prozac or other

antidepressants.

> In 's metabolic research his patient with the lowest, very

acidic

> blood plasma ph was schizophrenic and no longer was after the

protein type

> diet raised her ph to normal. He says no dairy and little grains 30

years

> ago. They use up acetate faster. Insufficient acetate produces

abnormal

> psychology reaction. With more processing, more grain feeding and

higher

> gluten strains over the last 30 years reactions will not decrease.

>

> Wanita

Where can I read about that statistic (1 in 5 end up on Prozac)?

[Guest guest]

> Where can I read about that statistic (1 in 5 end up on Prozac)?

>

,

It was a NY doctor, SUNY professor, dept. head IIRC on an NPR medical call

in show. Another statistic quoted by him was that 1 in 12 high school

graduates now has the beginnings of heart disease.

Wanita