Re: Neurobit Lite vs. Pocket Neurobics Pendant? compare/contrast

[Guest guest]

Hi Liz

As a beginner myself I have just been

through the process of getting all the stuff. So far the cheapest option to my

mind would have to buy the Pocket A3. We are all human and never seem content

with what we have and so it is with Neurofeedback, we

always want more. The pocket allows you the option of moving into Heg later if you so choose. We are moving into four and six

channel training so a one channel machine seems pretty dated.

Cheers Tony

Neurobit

Lite vs. Pocket Neurobics Pendant? compare/contrast

Does anybody have any thoughts as to which would be the better machine

(or are there others) to recommend to people who would like to do NF

home training?

Upon cursory examination of the Neurobit machine it looks like a

one-channel EEG, am I seeing that correctly? versus the two- (or

four?) chennel Pendant?

thanks for any ideas,

Liz

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[Guest guest]

Hi Liz

As a beginner myself I have just been

through the process of getting all the stuff. So far the cheapest option to my

mind would have to buy the Pocket A3. We are all human and never seem content

with what we have and so it is with Neurofeedback, we

always want more. The pocket allows you the option of moving into Heg later if you so choose. We are moving into four and six

channel training so a one channel machine seems pretty dated.

Cheers Tony

Neurobit

Lite vs. Pocket Neurobics Pendant? compare/contrast

Does anybody have any thoughts as to which would be the better machine

(or are there others) to recommend to people who would like to do NF

home training?

Upon cursory examination of the Neurobit machine it looks like a

one-channel EEG, am I seeing that correctly? versus the two- (or

four?) chennel Pendant?

thanks for any ideas,

Liz

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Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.6 - Release Date: 1/17/2008 12:00 a.m.

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Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.6 - Release Date: 1/17/2008 12:00 a.m.

[Guest guest]

Liz,

The Neurobit Lite with BioExplorer software will cost around U$1,050. You can purchase a Pendant or a Focus and BioExplorer for about $950. It does appear--though it's not very easy to be sure from the website--that the Neurobit is indeed a one-channel device, while both the Focus and Pendant are 2-channels. Of course with a one-channel device, you cannot train coherence or symmetry protocols.

The Pocket A3 is almost the same as the Pendant in terms of its specs, but it costs $1,250 instead of $550. If you think you may wish at some future time to purchase HEG capability, you can do so--at that time--by purchasing another Pendant (an HEG model) for another $550. Hence the cost of getting both with two Pendants would be ($550+550+450 for the headband) $1,550 vs. $1,700 for the same capability with the Pocket.

We have been back-ordered for some time on Pockets now, and we're told it will be at least 3-4 weeks before they are available for shipment to the US.

Pete

Does anybody have any thoughts as to which would be the better machine(or are there others) to recommend to people who would like to do NFhome training?Upon cursory examination of the Neurobit machine it looks like a

one-channel EEG, am I seeing that correctly? versus the two- (orfour?) chennel Pendant?

.. -- Van Deusen

pvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

Hi -

Pete said-

"The Pocket A3 is almost the same as the Pendant in terms of its specs, "

But that is not really a fair statement. Key difference between the Pendant and the A3, you decide what you want and if it's worth the difference of double the price.

- A3 can run without a computer and has it's own simple games and audio card.

- A3 generates binaural beats for auditory stimulation

- A3 has selectable frequencies.

- A3 can run both kinds of HEG simultaneously

- you can read EMG anywhere on the body with A3

- A3 has 16 session memory.

Hope this adds to the converasation.

Re: Neurobit Lite vs. Pocket Neurobics Pendant? compare/contrast

Liz,

The Neurobit Lite with BioExplorer software will cost around U$1,050. You can purchase a Pendant or a Focus and BioExplorer for about $950. It does appear--though it's not very easy to be sure from the website--that the Neurobit is indeed a one-channel device, while both the Focus and Pendant are 2-channels. Of course with a one-channel device, you cannot train coherence or symmetry protocols.

The Pocket A3 is almost the same as the Pendant in terms of its specs, but it costs $1,250 instead of $550. If you think you may wish at some future time to purchase HEG capability, you can do so--at that time--by purchasing another Pendant (an HEG model) for another $550. Hence the cost of getting both with two Pendants would be ($550+550+450 for the headband) $1,550 vs. $1,700 for the same capability with the Pocket.

We have been back-ordered for some time on Pockets now, and we're told it will be at least 3-4 weeks before they are available for shipment to the US.

Pete

On Jan 22, 2008 12:24 PM, lizmargoshes <lizmargoshes> wrote:

Does anybody have any thoughts as to which would be the better machine(or are there others) to recommend to people who would like to do NFhome training?Upon cursory examination of the Neurobit machine it looks like a one-channel EEG, am I seeing that correctly? versus the two- (orfour?) chennel Pendant?

.. -- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmailhttp://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

Can the A3 be run with a computer if one wishes?

Mark

Re: Neurobit Lite vs. Pocket Neurobics Pendant? compare/contrast

Liz,

The Neurobit Lite with BioExplorer software will cost around U$1,050. You can purchase a Pendant or a Focus and BioExplorer for about $950. It does appear--though it's not very easy to be sure from the website--that the Neurobit is indeed a one-channel device, while both the Focus and Pendant are 2-channels. Of course with a one-channel device, you cannot train coherence or symmetry protocols.

The Pocket A3 is almost the same as the Pendant in terms of its specs, but it costs $1,250 instead of $550. If you think you may wish at some future time to purchase HEG capability, you can do so--at that time--by purchasing another Pendant (an HEG model) for another $550. Hence the cost of getting both with two Pendants would be ($550+550+450 for the headband) $1,550 vs. $1,700 for the same capability with the Pocket.

We have been back-ordered for some time on Pockets now, and we're told it will be at least 3-4 weeks before they are available for shipment to the US.

Pete

On Jan 22, 2008 12:24 PM, lizmargoshes <lizmargoshes> wrote:

Does anybody have any thoughts as to which would be the better machine(or are there others) to recommend to people who would like to do NFhome training?Upon cursory examination of the Neurobit machine it looks like a one-channel EEG, am I seeing that correctly? versus the two- (orfour?) chennel Pendant?

.. -- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmailhttp://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

Mark,

Yes, the A3 can send to BioExplorer or BioEra as the Pendant does or it can operate freestanding, as stated.

I don't mention all the things he mentioned specifically because if you use the A3 or Pendant with BE, you can produce binaural beats and have selectable frequencies and sound feedback etc. in BE. I agree that the A3 is a very cool device, but I think it's fair to say that the feedback and games are fairly rudimentary and require a pretty motivated client to stay with them. The fact that the A3 can do training without a computer is, as I said, the major thing which differentiates it from most other amplifiers.

I'm not sure how EMG is defined on the A3, since the manufacturer reports it has a maximum upper frequency range of 56 Hz and a 122 Hz sampling rate. Most EMG work is done at 1024 samples per second and would be at a much higher frequency.

I know the Pocket can save 16 files, but I'm not sure if they can be exported from the unit and, if so, in what format they are. Perhaps can clarify that for us.

And, I guess if you could put both headbands on the same head at the same time, though I'm not sure how you would do that--or why--you could run both types of HEG simultaneously. I don't know how you would see the results, though (unless in BioExplorer there were a design that allowed one to see both.) Again, what might be the benefit of having two separate feedbacks telling you that you were increasing bloodflow/blood O2 levels is not clear to me.

When I said the specs were nearly the same, I meant that the Pendant operates at 12 bits, the pocket at 10; the Pendant can sample up to 512 samples per second (more likely you would use 256), the Pocket at 122. Changing radio frequency channels on which the devices communicate with their dongles is a simple hardware process with the Pendant, and it requires you to go into the menu system in the Pocket.

As a standalone unit, the Pocket is remarkable. For those who wish to have and use BOTH the HEG technologies and EEG, it is a very cost-effective alternative.

I also consider that with the Pocket you have all your eggs in that one basket. If something goes wrong with the unit or the dongle, you lose the ability to do any training. With two Pendants, if a dongle fails, you have another to replace it (since you get one with each Pendant); if one of the Pendants fails, you still can train with the other.

We sell both and recommend both. I appreciate further explaining the differences between the two.

Pete

Can the A3 be run with a computer if one wishes?

Mark

Re: Neurobit Lite vs. Pocket Neurobics Pendant? compare/contrast

Hi -

Pete said-

" The Pocket A3 is almost the same as the Pendant in terms of its specs, "

But that is not really a fair statement. Key difference between the Pendant and the A3, you decide what you want and if it's worth the difference of double the price.

- A3 can run without a computer and has it's own simple games and audio card.

- A3 generates binaural beats for auditory stimulation

- A3 has selectable frequencies.

- A3 can run both kinds of HEG simultaneously

- you can read EMG anywhere on the body with A3

- A3 has 16 session memory.

Hope this adds to the converasation.

.. -- Van Deusen

pvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

The A3 can run with a computer or without.

Transmission is advertised at 2 meters but I have gotten more than double that.

This is a similarity in terms of specs with the pendant.

Best,

Re: Neurobit Lite vs. Pocket Neurobics Pendant? compare/contrast

Liz,

The Neurobit Lite with BioExplorer software will cost around U$1,050. You can purchase a Pendant or a Focus and BioExplorer for about $950. It does appear--though it's not very easy to be sure from the website--that the Neurobit is indeed a one-channel device, while both the Focus and Pendant are 2-channels. Of course with a one-channel device, you cannot train coherence or symmetry protocols.

The Pocket A3 is almost the same as the Pendant in terms of its specs, but it costs $1,250 instead of $550. If you think you may wish at some future time to purchase HEG capability, you can do so--at that time--by purchasing another Pendant (an HEG model) for another $550. Hence the cost of getting both with two Pendants would be ($550+550+450 for the headband) $1,550 vs. $1,700 for the same capability with the Pocket.

We have been back-ordered for some time on Pockets now, and we're told it will be at least 3-4 weeks before they are available for shipment to the US.

Pete

On Jan 22, 2008 12:24 PM, lizmargoshes <lizmargoshes> wrote:

Does anybody have any thoughts as to which would be the better machine(or are there others) to recommend to people who would like to do NFhome training?Upon cursory examination of the Neurobit machine it looks like a one-channel EEG, am I seeing that correctly? versus the two- (orfour?) chennel Pendant?

.. -- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmailhttp://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

Here are some claims from the Neurobit manual, and I'm wondering if

they sound true, and that, as a result, the Neurobit's signal is

" better " (don't need to prep the skin, don't need to worry about

impedance or interference (???):

" As a rule with other equipment, it is necessary to also apply

abrasive gel (e.g. Nuprep) to the skin. Usage of such a preparation

may cause allergic reactions or infections.

In the Neurobit Lite, the very good parameters of measurement circuit

allow elimination of abrasives. "

really??

" Neurobit Lite is equipped with the automatic supervision of

electrode contacts during training sessions. This function has

previously been available only in the most expensive devices for

professional applications.

" Automatic recognition of artifacts

Electric signals recorded on the scalp, apart from the activity of the

brain,contain components reflecting other physiological phenomena as

well (e.g. muscle tension or eye movements). These artifacts are

undesirable in peak performance training and in many devices they are

sources of false feedback signals. Neurobit Lite gives only credible

feedback signals, thanks to the automatic detection of these kinds of

artifacts. "

really?

• High immunity to external interferences The EEG signal on the scalp

is very weak (measuring a dozen microvolts or so).

Its measurement is subject to robust interferences, such as from the

mains power lines or radio signals. These interferences cause serious

problems in many neurofeedback systems (even those equipped with

filters of mains power signal). In such cases, searching of locations

distant from power lines or application of extra metal screening may

be necessary. In contrast, the Neurobit Lite is characterized by high

immunity to external interferences and it is free from the problems

mentioned above. "

I wonder how this compares to the pendants.

(if it's all really true)

>

> > Does anybody have any thoughts as to which would be the better

machine

> > (or are there others) to recommend to people who would like to do NF

> > home training?

> >

> > Upon cursory examination of the Neurobit machine it looks like a

> > one-channel EEG, am I seeing that correctly? versus the two- (or

> > four?) chennel Pendant?

> > .

> >

> >

> >

> --

> Van Deusen

> pvdtlc@...

> http://www.brain-trainer.com

> 305/433-3160

> The Learning Curve, Inc.

>