Re: Type 2 Diabetes?????? (Long)

[Guest guest]

perhaps i'm just feeling crabby today, but if this were my husband i'd

confront him for behaving like a big two-year old. in fact - my almost two

year old is better behaved than that. seriously. if he wants to get better,

he needs to grab his sack and make it happen. if he's not willing to do

that, then he needs to face up to the fact that he's *choosing* his health

problems. and also? that he's a spineless slug.

and today, that's what i would say.

tomorrow, i might say it more politely.

-katja

At 12:31 PM 8/30/2004, you wrote:

>My husband has type 2 diabetes and is struggling to keep his blood

>sugar under control. I am new at NT & WP and am trying to help us eat

>better and keep him healthy without drugs. We are on a somewhat low-

>carb diet and if he follows it strictly he is OK. His problem is the

>cravings for sugar and snacking. I can fix a full fat steak with

>green vegies in butter and he snacks one or two times before bed and

>I don't understand because I am completely full. Is there anyone in

>this group with type 2 that can give me any advice? What foods do you

>eat or not eat? Are there any books/web sites you can recommend? It

>is hard for me to help him because I am not experiencing the cravings

>and I also feel like I'm dealing with him like a child by telling him

>he doesn't need that candy bar etc. He wants to feel better and his

>body tells him when his sugar is to high (200+), it just seems like

>he has no willpower. He also thinks Splenda and diet drinks are fine

>because they don't raise his blood sugar. I know they are bad for him

>but he argues that they are the lesser of the two evils. I am also

>worried about his vitamin & mineral levels. I feel that if I can get

>him off the junk for long enough and detox his body and supply it

>with good things he won't crave candy and bread. Can anyone back up

>my thoughts with their on experiences? I am sorry this is so long, I

>am just very concerned about his health and I want to do what's best

>for his body and ours. I am willing to try anything. I know there has

>been a recent thread on diabetes and certain diets, but it didn't

>seem to give any personal experiences. Also, I was wondering if

>anyone with type 2 has had any results with the coconut oil, CLO etc.

>TIA,

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Have a look at the following sites -

http://www.diabetes-normalsugars.com/

http://www.schwarzbeinprinciple.com/

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/diabetes_index.html

http://www.mercola.com/article/carbohydrates/lower_your_grains.htm

Mercola's site has plenty of articles, just use the search facility.

An interesting article about a Lakhota man who's managing his T2 with diet not

medications

-http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/articles/2003/01/12/news/local/news04.txt

HTH

Dedy

Type 2 Diabetes?????? (Long)

My husband has type 2 diabetes and is struggling to keep his blood

sugar under control. I am new at NT & WP and am trying to help us eat

better and keep him healthy without drugs. We are on a somewhat low-

carb diet and if he follows it strictly he is OK. His problem is the

cravings for sugar and snacking. I can fix a full fat steak with

green vegies in butter and he snacks one or two times before bed and

I don't understand because I am completely full. Is there anyone in

this group with type 2 that can give me any advice? What foods do you

eat or not eat? Are there any books/web sites you can recommend? It

is hard for me to help him because I am not experiencing the cravings

and I also feel like I'm dealing with him like a child by telling him

he doesn't need that candy bar etc. He wants to feel better and his

body tells him when his sugar is to high (200+), it just seems like

he has no willpower. He also thinks Splenda and diet drinks are fine

because they don't raise his blood sugar. I know they are bad for him

but he argues that they are the lesser of the two evils. I am also

worried about his vitamin & mineral levels. I feel that if I can get

him off the junk for long enough and detox his body and supply it

with good things he won't crave candy and bread. Can anyone back up

my thoughts with their on experiences? I am sorry this is so long, I

am just very concerned about his health and I want to do what's best

for his body and ours. I am willing to try anything. I know there has

been a recent thread on diabetes and certain diets, but it didn't

seem to give any personal experiences. Also, I was wondering if

anyone with type 2 has had any results with the coconut oil, CLO etc.

TIA,

[Guest guest]

>> I feel that if I can get

him off the junk for long enough and detox his body and supply it

with good things he won't crave candy and bread. <<

I was not able to do this. I was long, long off junk food - years - and

didn't even eat SUGAR! And yet, until I followed Atkins (starting with two

months at 20 grams or less of carbs a day), I couldn't control my cravings,

my hunger, my overeating, or my blood sugar problems.

The very day I went on Atkins, all that ended. Now the only time I have

cravings is the day before my period. That's it. The other days of my life I

am completely free of a lifetime of cravings, binging, overeating, fatigue,

and misery. I've lost over a hundred pounds, also.

Doing " somewhat " low carb didn't do it, either - as I followed the Atkins

plan and added back in additional foods, 5 grams of carbs at a time, a week

at a time, I discovered that *for me and at this time*, my limit is around

35 grams of carbs a day. So I shoot for 30 grams daily of carbohydrate.

(This does not include fiber, btw - I eat between 15-25 grams of fiber a day

on top of that.)

I eat strictly NT and do not eat junk. I get 65-70 percent of my calories

from fat. I sweeten my tea or coffee with stevia, but I have on occasion had

a beverage with Splenda in it when eating out or just to try it - less than

once a month, though. I also use stevia to sweeten my pre-period chocolate -

such as truffles made with heavy cream, unsweetened organic chocolate,

stevia, and butter, and rolled in coconut. However, I count the carbs on

those foods, and as I said, I only eat them right before my period. You do

NOT want to come between me and chocolate on that day. <G>

If you had asked me years before if I could live this way I'd have laughed

in your face. I assumed that many, maybe all, my eating " problems " were

mental/emotional. And yet, once I stopped eating carbs, it all evaporated.

This whole construct I had that I was weak willed or " compulsive " or

whatever just vanished. It was biochemical after all. Which stunned me, but

also frankly, set me free.

I kind of agree with your husband that Splenda is the lesser of two evils,

if it doesn't jack up his blood sugar. Get control of the blood sugar, and

you'll find that many of the cravings and other problems will indeed go

away. He should simply test himself after eating a food, and if it causes

his blood sugar to go up after eating it (beyond a small normal

post-prandial rise), he should eliminate that food from his diet. But if it

doesn't then in all honesty at this time I'd let him decide if he wants to

eat it or not. (Well, obviously he will decide about EVERYTHING, but I mean

I wouldn't worry about it.)

I have a friend who is an insulin-dependent type 2 diabetic, and she has

perfect control of her sugars and has been able to eliminate all her other

diabetes meds and reduce her insulin hugely by following Atkins. Some

things, such as sugar alcohols (which Atkins claimed did not spike blood

sugar) send her sugar soaring - so this step of checking how it affects YOU

individually is essential. Her diabetes doc was previously against Atkins

but based on her experience has now started working with it, and has seen

great improvement in the blood sugar management of his patients.

Being on " somewhat low carb " doesn't get you the benefit of controlling

hunger and cravings the way following a very low carb, high fat diet does.

It just doesn't WORK.

I am not saying Atkins is the only way to do this - there are other low carb

programs that appear to have the same benefit. I am not familiar enough with

any of them to comment on them specifically. But if he wants to do low carb,

and would enjoy high fat, then I strongly suggest he try that and see if it

doesn't solve the problem of him wanting things like candy bars.

As to how much of this is " his business " and how much is " your business, "

I'm single and have no kids, largely because I never could figure out where

to draw the line on things like that. Part of me is apalled that you feel

this is your business at all, and part of me is screaming " YOU GO GIRL! " at

Katja's suggestion you tell him to stop behaving like a two year old. <G> So

on that I'll defer to those who are better at intimate relationships than I

am.

Christie

[Guest guest]

There is an first rate article by Dr. Tom Cowan at WAP on this

subject. Go to www.westonaprice.org, click on the map of the world

and then on the page which comes up look in the upper left hand

corner of your monitor sceen. There will be the words, What's'New " (I

think that's what it says) Under the What's New section is the

article on diabetes.

My husband has been following Dr. Cowan's advice fairly closely and

has reduced his Typpe 2 diabetes meds. My husband is no saint when it

comes to sugar consumption and craving, especially at night, but with

the high fat intake he is dong much better than I ever believed would

be possibe.

I try very hard not to discuss his health issues with him anymore,

unless he asks. He is responsible for what he eats...period. I'm the

cook who supplies the high fat and nutrient dense foods, which he

loves, and we get along fine. I serve him smaller amounts of the high

carb foods and really big amounts of the fatty foods. Fortunately he

loves cheese, cream and meat. He is happy with this arrangement. In

time I hope you will find a successful arrangement too.

All my best,

Sheila

> My husband has type 2 diabetes and is struggling to keep his blood

> sugar under control. I am new at NT & WP and am trying to help us

eat

> better and keep him healthy without drugs. We are on a somewhat low-

> carb diet and if he follows it strictly he is OK. His problem is the

> cravings for sugar and snacking. I can fix a full fat steak with

> green vegies in butter and he snacks one or two times before bed and

> I don't understand because I am completely full. Is there anyone in

> this group with type 2 that can give me any advice? What foods do

you

> eat or not eat? Are there any books/web sites you can recommend? It

> is hard for me to help him because I am not experiencing the

cravings

> and I also feel like I'm dealing with him like a child by telling

him

> he doesn't need that candy bar etc. He wants to feel better and his

> body tells him when his sugar is to high (200+), it just seems like

> he has no willpower. He also thinks Splenda and diet drinks are fine

> because they don't raise his blood sugar. I know they are bad for

him

> but he argues that they are the lesser of the two evils. I am also

> worried about his vitamin & mineral levels. I feel that if I can get

> him off the junk for long enough and detox his body and supply it

> with good things he won't crave candy and bread. Can anyone back up

> my thoughts with their on experiences? I am sorry this is so long, I

> am just very concerned about his health and I want to do what's best

> for his body and ours. I am willing to try anything. I know there

has

> been a recent thread on diabetes and certain diets, but it didn't

> seem to give any personal experiences. Also, I was wondering if

> anyone with type 2 has had any results with the coconut oil, CLO

etc.

> TIA,

>

[Guest guest]

What items and in what quantities do you consume to reach the 60-70%

fat intake that everyone talks about? What is the verdict on milk

products as far as the carb count goes? Also, should I supplement his

diet with fish oil and CLO for the EFA's or just one of them? What

about flax seed oil for Omega-3's?

[Guest guest]

>> What items and in what quantities do you consume to reach the 60-70%

fat intake that everyone talks about? What is the verdict on milk

products as far as the carb count goes? <<

I will post what I eat at the end of this message.

Different milk products have different carb counts, which will be listed on

the label if it has one. As a rule, the more fat, the lower the carb count.

Full fat milk is fairly high, at 11 grams per cup, heavy cream the lowest,

cheese in between, etc. I eat cheese and use cream, but don't use milk at

all.

Here is a copy of a post I've done in the past of " What I Eat " :

I start my day with an omelette with cheese and sour cream, cooked in

butter, with veggies sauteed in butter (mushrooms, green onions, etc), and

sometimes I throw in some cooked chicken breast. I like to roast chickens

but the breast meat is usually too dry for me the next day, so I consider

this a form of recycling. <G> LOTS of sour cream on top, plus bacon or

sausage. Sometimes just bacon and eggs. Cream in my coffee or tea, plus

stevia.

Lunch and dinner are somewhat interchangeable, as if I eat a salad for

lunch, I rarely will eat one for dinner. So I'll just list what I eat for

lunches and dinners, on a " mix and match " basis:

Meats:

Chicken rubbed with olive oil, salt, pepper, and herbs, roasted.

Steak rubbed with olive oil, salt, pepper, and herbs, grilled.

Grilled sausage (various kinds)

Chicken breasts pan-fried with creamy mushroom sauce

Chicken leg meat sauteed with paprika, garlic, and butter

Pork loin chops in a red wine vinegar and garlic sauce. Strong men have wept

eating this one. <G>

Stuffed pork roast, made with asiago cheese and mushrooms, served with a

Dijon sauce

Burgers made with either beef or turkey, all kinds of ways - with cheeses

(feta, asiago, etc), with veggies, with mushrooms.

" Joe's Special, " a dish made with spinach, garlic, salt, pepper, nutmeg,

egg, ground beef, all sauteed together. Fast and good, especially with a

Ceasar Salad on the side.

Fajitas with sour cream, cheese, and salad.

Chicken breasts with skin and bone sauteed with mushrooms, lemon, butter,

olive oil, garlic, salt, pepper, kalamata olives, served with brocolli. The

sauce for this one is DELICIOUS!

The parmesan and egg crusted chicken recipe called " Herion Chicken Wings, "

that I got from this list - I don't use wings, I mostly do this one with

whole thighs, with skin and bone.

I often make sauces, including Bernaise sauce (NT recipe), and a creamy

mushroom sauce I make using pan drippings and bacon, delicious! I think

sauces are the source of much of the fat in my diet. I also sometimes put

bacon with a steak or wrap chicken breasts in bacon.

Veggies:

Grated zucchini hash browns with salt, pepper, garlic, onions, and

mushrooms, ALWAYS cooked in butter

Steamed brocolli with salt - sometimes cheesy or creamy sauces, too

Artichokes with mayo

Artichoke hearts (a favorite with Chicken Tarragon Salad from the Whole

Foods takeout deli - this is a meal I can pick up on the road and eat in the

car)

Asparagus prepared in various ways

Creamed spinach

Stuffed mushrooms

Salads I like are:

Greek Salad with feta, tomatoes, and kalamata olives, with an olive oil and

red wine vinegar dressing

Butter lettuce with tomatos and parmesan and Ranch dressing

Ceasar Salads - lots and lots of these! Sometimes with meat (usually grilled

chicken breast, sometimes shrimp) - I make my own dressing with the NT

recipe

Crab salad - fresh crab meat, mayo, chopped green onion, pepper, on a bed of

lettuce and tomatoes

Salad Nicoise - olive oil, Dijon mustard, grated garlic, anchovies, Romaine

lettuce, Nicoise or kalamata olives, tuna packed in oil

" Taco Salad " - ground beef sauteed with onion, salt, pepper, chili powder,

paprika, and tomatos, served with lettuce, grated cheddar, guacamole, sour

cream

" BLT " .... I use two large slices of tomato with lettuce, mayo, and bacon in

between. I usually eat this with a fork. It surprised me at first how good

this is!

Egg salad

Snacks:

Almonds, macademia nuts, strawberries, salami, cheese, cheese, and more

cheese, " crackers " made with cheese, " crackers " made with flax seeds, nut

flour, and guar gum, pate, chopped chicken livers, celery with cream cheese,

DEVILED EGGS!!!! (Note: I have cut out nuts recently, as they seem to

trigger too much craving in me for more. I am fine with nut flours.... but I

will reserve nuts for holidays for now.)

And did I mention cheese? <G>

I drink a lot of tea or decaf coffee with cream.

Christie

[Guest guest]

At 10:18 AM 8/31/04 -0700, you wrote:

>I will post what I eat at the end of this message. *snip*

Must. Remember. Not. To. Read. Christie's. Posts. When.

Hungry.

Thanks for that one. I'm printing it out for reference when I get

" tired " of cooking. It'll be inspiration.

I don't suppose you'd want to take a temporary assignment - say, a couple

of months - to be chef-in-residence? Then you can bail and leave me on my

own. :-D

(I promise to hide all the potatoes!)

MFJ

Everything connects. The Universe is not THAT chaotic. Beauty can

still be found in the most amazing places.

[Guest guest]

>> I don't suppose you'd want to take a temporary assignment - say, a couple

of months - to be chef-in-residence? Then you can bail and leave me on my

own. :-D <<

ROFL... I posted that to a health list I'm on, and I got three posts

suggesting I open a spa at my house. <G>

I like to cook, what can I say? And I'll be glad to come be your chef in

residence, if you don't mind me bringing along my 6 dogs and 2 cats.....

Christie

[Guest guest]

At 11:36 AM 8/31/04 -0700, you wrote:

>

>>> I don't suppose you'd want to take a temporary assignment - say, a couple

>of months - to be chef-in-residence? Then you can bail and leave me on my

>own. :-D <<

>

>ROFL... I posted that to a health list I'm on, and I got three posts

>suggesting I open a spa at my house. <G>

>

>I like to cook, what can I say? And I'll be glad to come be your chef in

>residence, if you don't mind me bringing along my 6 dogs and 2 cats.....

>

>Christie

Hmmmmm ... it might be nice to end my status as the only person on the

street WITHOUT dogs, but I think Handsome Devil Cat over here would take

exception to that. Maybe we could rent you a house down the street?

I like to cook too, but frankly, it's gotten a little boring for me lately,

with only me to do for. Half the fun was making up a big batch of

something really cool for a crowd that would love it. For a while there

I regained the thrill by the satisfaction of making it all with home-grown

stuff, but even that's paled now. It seems I just can't get excited

enough about cooking ... meat. LOL. *sigh* ... inspiration is always

good.

Yep, I can see it now ... the CM Spa ... grows and harvests, Chef

Christie teaches 20-rep squats and harasses about how she's preparing

that harvest. We special-order various things as needed for the proper

diet - i.e. bear-and-panther-repelling kimchi and pelmenji from Katja,

kefilli cream from Heidi (hey, maybe we can get her to join up and be Chef

Glutenator too, instead of waiting for the cookbook!). I've got a

couple of friends we can hire on as masseuse/masseur, and one who will

teach Redneck Workouts ... no problem! All we need is a hot tub. Wait,

my neighbor has one. His dogs like to sleep on top of it.

I'd say we could make lots of money, but frankly, it'd probably be more

fun. :-D

MFJ

Everything connects. The Universe is not THAT chaotic. Beauty can

still be found in the most amazing places.

[Guest guest]

I am sorry to say the article by Dr. Cowan at WAP was not where I

otld you it woulfd be. It was moved over to Modern Diseases.

Description: Tom Cowan explains diabetes and gives advice on how to

manage this disease

Treating Diabetes Practical Advice for Combatting a Modern Epidemic

By Tom Cowan, MD Adapted from The Fourfold Path

URL: http://www.westonaprice.org/moderndiseases/diabetes.html

He discusses the use of CLO in diabetes in this article.

Sorry for the error.

If you find or start a spa that is WAP friendly be sure to let me

know. :-) I'll keep my bags packed and ready to go!

Sheila

> What items and in what quantities do you consume to reach the 60-

70%

> fat intake that everyone talks about? What is the verdict on milk

> products as far as the carb count goes? Also, should I supplement

his

> diet with fish oil and CLO for the EFA's or just one of them? What

> about flax seed oil for Omega-3's?