Re: Papaya Chutney, it's bubbly

[Guest guest]

,

I'll let other people address some of the other aspects of your

question. I will say that an open ferment is very unlikely to produce C.

botulinum. It is an anaerobic microbe (i.e., oxygen is deadly to it) and

cannot grow in an ferment with access to air. Also, C. botulinum

dislikes acidity (which is why we can low-temperature can) and

lacto-bacilli (probably because of the acidity). Now, molds and other

microbial contaminations... I'll let other folks address those issues.

Geoffrey Tolle

Foley wrote:

> I am new to this and followed Sally's recipe pretty closely for

> this, I am wondering if it is alright that after to 2 days the

> chutney was producing gas, I assume it to be CO2 because I can't

> smell anything bad.

>

> I also made a rasin chutney and it has been very quiet. Just affraid

> of botulism, as I have heard that sometimes the food can smell and

> taste normal yet be toxic.

>

> Thanks,

>

> in KY

[Guest guest]

>Also, C. botulinum

>dislikes acidity (which is why we can low-temperature can) and

>lacto-bacilli (probably because of the acidity). Now, molds and other

>microbial contaminations... I'll let other folks address those issues.

>

> Geoffrey Tolle

I'll second that ... in my wine-making days one of the books

said that though wine can be " bad " it never grows pathogenic

bacteria because of the acid content. Actually when you look

at the cases of botulism, it is always something like green

beans or canned meat that has been partially sterilised, or

garlic cloves in oil. I was really afraid of getting botulism

from kimchi, but it just doesn't happen. I couldn't find any

hits on the CDC website or online anywhere. Actually there

are very few cases of ANY botulism ... 50 cases a year maybe?

Compared to several thousand deaths of pedestrians hit

by cars? Anyway, I've never gotten remotely sick off any

of my ferments ... the times I have had food poisoning it

has been off leftovers that weren't reheated all the way,

which seems to be the #1 cause of food poisoning.

The acid-loving bacteria seem to be at least harmless, if

not always tasty. The alkaline-loving bacteria don't grow in

acid, but if they do get hold of a batch, they smell PUTRID.

So if you are worried about a particular batch, get some PH

test strips ... if it is nice and acidic, and smells decent, it's very

unlikey to hurt you.

Most of the old books mention mold ... and say, " just scrape

it off " . I don't like mold though, and I don't know the issues

with it, so I tend to toss a moldy batch. My really good batches

NEVER mold, so I don't regard it as a good sign.

Some of the ferments get a white scum on the top that is

actually yeast though. Again, it hasn't happened on my better

ferments, but it is mentioned in the older books and considered

harmless.

Heidi Jean