Re: Pickles and Rotten Egg Smell

[Guest guest]

After fermentation is finished you might try leaving the lid off for a few hours

and see if the rotten smell goes away. Sometimes, after fermentation, smelly

gases will concentrate in the headspace of the container. I'm no expert but

trying it is easy.

Darrell

[Guest guest]

Ann,

Are the NT pickles finished in 3 days? They might not be finished if bubbling

is still going on.

Darrell

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/12/04 2:13:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

heidis@... writes:

I did get that smell once from a batch

of fermented salmon with onions ... I think it was the onions that

caused it.

_____

~~~~>The rotten egg smell is from sulfur-- sulfur dioxide I think. Onions

have sulfur, and fermenting anything that is high in sulfur might produce some

sulfur dioxide. Maybe some types of bacteria produce it more than others. I

don't know if that indicates pathogenic bacteria or not. It could just be an

absence of a particular organism that usually changes the sulfur dioxide into

something else. (Kind of like how ethanol is still produced in acetic acid

products, but under the right conditions [presence of oxygen] it's converted

into

acetic acid.)

Chris

[Guest guest]

>Is this normal? What am I doing wrong? I got the impression that it

>was bad, but I don't know if I can eat the stuff despite the smell.

>I'm starting to think this is normal for lacto-fermented pickles.

>

>Thanks.

>

>Ann

I just made a few batches of pickles, using different recipes for each,

and none smelled like rotten eggs. I did get that smell once from a batch

of fermented salmon with onions ... I think it was the onions that

caused it. It smelled so bad though, that every time I opened the lid

someone would ask if the garbage needed to go out. They were

acidic and tasted ok, but I just couldn't eat them.

Are the cukes crispy? Slimy? Have you tested the PH? I'd see if they

are acidic ... you can do this by taking some of the juice and

adding some baking soda, see if it bubbles. If they aren't acidic,

I wouldn't taste them.

My pickles I made by layering the cukes with grape leaves (old

trick from old cookbook) and using salt water (2T salt per quart

of boiled water, then let it cool) a couple of T of vinegar and

a dash of old kimchi juice. I don't use whey because the bacteria

in whey are not the ones that normally colonize vegies, and I

feel better using " vegie bacteria " . And dill and other spices.

They taste like regular dill pickles.

Adding a dash of vinegar makes most ferments work

better, by acifying the water so the other bacteria

can't get a foothold. Also, it is important to boil

the water ... our house has bacteria from the well

that, when they grow in the pipes, DO smell like

rotten eggs, though they don't seem to hurt anything.

Make sure the water is cool before adding it to the

cukes though, or you'll kill the " cuke bacteria " .

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

> I made pickles using the recipe in the " Nourishing Traditions " book.

> I left it for 3 days, but I opened it a few times.

You shouldn't open it until you are ready to eat it and should refrigerate it

after opening it. I usually refrigerate it before opening it.

Opening it allows the Co2 gas, which suppresses bad bacteria, to escape and

allows oxygen in, which opens the way for spoilage organisms to grow. Lactic

acid bacteria are anaerobic. This would be especially important at the start of

the fermentation as getting the lactic acid fermentation off to a good start in

the first few hours and days determines the long term quality and success of the

ferment.

>After it was

> done, it smelled like rotten eggs and it was bubbling on the top.

I have seen ferments go bubbly but, have not had that smell.

Unless you are unfamiliar with the normal pungent sulfurous smell of fermented

vegetables? They can be smelly but it's not overly unpleasant.

A little bit of bubbling can be normal but in my experience a large amount of

bubbling usually means that it has spoiled and likely it will be mushy.

>

> I followed someone else's instruction of boiling the water, but I did

> not let the pickles and dill dry out completely after washing it.

I usually don't wash any above ground vegetables, unless there is dirt on them,

there are natural lactic acid bacteria present on their surfaces which benefit

the fermentation.

Using boiled and cooled water is a good idea if adding it to the ferment.

Did you use tap water? That could be part of the problem.

The chemicals they use now in tap water are not dissipated by boiling the water.

I wouldn't use tap water for making fermented vegetables.

Boiled rain water or bottled water would work fine.

I use distilled water, but that's what I buy for drinking water.

> it smelled like rotten eggs again.

> Is this normal?

It's not normal in my experience.

I've had jars spoil, they get mushy usually and bubble a lot, or turn grayish,

but I've never had a rotten smell as you describe.

> What am I doing wrong?

To answer that would be a guess because each ferment proceeds under a unique set

of circumstances. There is an art to fermentation, experience will teach you a

lot.

#1 When fermenting in jars you have to leave it unopened until you are ready to

eat it. The Co2 gas builds up in the jar and acts to suppress spoilage

organisms, this is important. The relatively small amount of material in a jar

makes it more susceptible to any changes in circumstances as well. You have to

leave it unmolested to have the ferment proceed properly.

Having said that I sometimes at first leave the lid of the jar just where it is

snug and won't let air in at the start of fermentation and then tighten it down

tighter later. This is because a vigorous fermentation can produce enough

pressure to cause jars to explode. Canning jars with threaded lids work best for

this. The reused pickle jar type jar has a lid that doesn't seal very good, imo,

and there isn't really any adjustment on how tight you can tighten the lid with

them.

Using fresh organic produce helps, there are more nutrients and energy and no

chemicals which are inimical to life.

The salt level can make a big difference in the results.

Too much slows and changes the nature of the fermentation and it's final

character, too little allows a greater chance of spoilage organisms growing.

> I got the impression that it

> was bad, but I don't know if I can eat the stuff despite the smell.

If the smell or texture or taste is bad I would not eat it.

> I'm starting to think this is normal for lacto-fermented pickles.

If you are not familiar with the normal smell of fermented vegetables this may

be the case.

If it tastes good it should be ok to eat.

People eat some pretty smelly things in different parts of the world. : -)

regards, Bruce

[Guest guest]

>~~~~>The rotten egg smell is from sulfur-- sulfur dioxide I think. Onions

>have sulfur, and fermenting anything that is high in sulfur might produce some

>sulfur dioxide. Maybe some types of bacteria produce it more than others. I

>don't know if that indicates pathogenic bacteria or not. It could just be an

>absence of a particular organism that usually changes the sulfur dioxide into

>something else. (Kind of like how ethanol is still produced in acetic acid

>products, but under the right conditions [presence of oxygen] it's converted

into

>acetic acid.)

>

>Chris

I agree, and I stopped using onions in kimchi for that reason.

But with kimchi, the onions don't seem to produce that smell.

Onions with salmon did. I made a batch of JUST fermented

onions, in fact, with rosemary, and that didn't smell like

sulfur either. Now the bacteria in our pipes that seem to

make sulfur dioxide ... where are THEY getting the sulfur?

Our water doesn't seem to have much in it. Anyway, the salmon

didn't seem to be pathogenic, just really, really stinky.

Heidi Jean

[Guest guest]

Bruce wrote:

" Unless you are unfamiliar with the normal pungent sulfurous smell of

fermented vegetables? They can be smelly but it's not overly

unpleasant. "

Well it does have a slight odor sulfurous odor and, yes, I'm not

familiar with that smell. The pickles had little bubbling, weren't

mushy at all, but I'm not sure whether to eat it or not. I use

filtered water for it.

***************************

Heidi wrote:

" My pickles I made by layering the cukes with grape leaves (old

trick from old cookbook) and using salt water (2T salt per quart

of boiled water, then let it cool) a couple of T of vinegar and

a dash of old kimchi juice. I don't use whey because the bacteria

in whey are not the ones that normally colonize vegies, and I

feel better using " vegie bacteria " . And dill and other spices.

They taste like regular dill pickles. "

This sounds really interesting, but I don't have grape leaves nor

kimchi. I do have Braggs Apple Cider vinegar and I use kefir whey,

which has more than yogurt whey.

I'll have to remember the baking soda tip.

Thanks.

Ann

[Guest guest]

Hi Darrell,

Thanks for responding. I'm really upset, because I chucked the pickles and

completely forgot to do what you said and do what Heidi mentioned, which is to

test if the liquid is acidic by adding baking soda. Back to the drawing board.

Ann

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----- Original Message -----

After fermentation is finished you might try leaving the lid off for a few

hours and see if the rotten smell goes away. Sometimes, after fermentation,

smelly gases will concentrate in the headspace of the container. I'm no expert

but trying it is easy.

Darrell