Brainmap on Drugs

[Guest guest]

Greetings!

How much will medications skew the results of a TLC?

I did a brain map on the client of another clinician, who forgot to tell the

client not to take medications prior to the map. We were going to forgo the map

(for other reasons as well), but continued due to scheduling issues, and the

dire circumstances of the client (can't get out of bed, showering is

overwhelming, difficult to get anywhere).

The map shows excessive levels of 2-4 Hz, and 19-38 Hz, everywhere. Beta peak

frequencies range 20-34. Theta/beta ratios are as low as 0.19, among other

issues.

Here are the meds involved:

Ambien 10mg at 4am

Percocet at 7am

Adderall at 10am

Brain map at 2pm (usually, these are before 11am, extenuating circumstances)

What do you think?

Thanks!

Gretchen

[Guest guest]

Gretchen,There is a document in the Files section at braintrainer (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/braintrainer/files ) in which Jay Gunkelman surveyed the (paucity of) studies on the effects of various drugs on the EEG. This was done a number of years ago, and I'm not aware of any updates to it.

Several bottom lines in answering your question:1. While there are some things shown (as well as single very small studies can show them) about brain responses to specific meds; as for EEG responses to combinations of multiple psychoactive medications--well, I guess the position of the FDA and the drug companies and the medical community is, " the less known, the better. " There aren't any.

2. Back in the 90's when I was working with a lot of kids, Ritalin was the drug of choice--sometimes dexedrine--and that was swell, because it was in and out of the system in a matter of hours, so you could skip a dose or put one off and, aside from making the assessment that much harder to gather, it was no harm/no foul. For the last decade, though, the big push with medications has been to build up blood levels. In other words, you could skip a dose of Adderall--maybe even a couple--and not have it make much difference in the level in the blood.

Interesting combination your client's doctor has come up with: an opiod and a sedative, which should slow the brain WAY down--and a stimulant designed to speed it up. (This person actually gets up at 4am to take a sleep medication?!)

So the rules I use are these:Train the brain that's in front of you. If it happens to contain a chemical swamp, that's fairly common these days, and you either have to refuse to work with people taking meds or work around the meds.

andGet a good list of signs of OVER-medication for each of the meds and have the client watch carefully for those as you train. Changing the EEG will change the chemistry in the brain and that often results in the dosages becoming too high. If you have a cooperative medicator, they may be willing to titrate down the dosages of the indicated meds as the training progresses.

Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

How much will medications skew the results of a TLC?

I did a brain map on the client of another clinician, who forgot to tell the client not to take medications prior to the map. We were going to forgo the map (for other reasons as well), but continued due to scheduling issues, and the dire circumstances of the client (can't get out of bed, showering is overwhelming, difficult to get anywhere).

The map shows excessive levels of 2-4 Hz, and 19-38 Hz, everywhere. Beta peak frequencies range 20-34. Theta/beta ratios are as low as 0.19, among other issues.

Here are the meds involved:

Ambien 10mg at 4am

Percocet at 7am

Adderall at 10am

Brain map at 2pm (usually, these are before 11am, extenuating circumstances)

[Guest guest]

Gretchen,There is a document in the Files section at braintrainer (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/braintrainer/files ) in which Jay Gunkelman surveyed the (paucity of) studies on the effects of various drugs on the EEG. This was done a number of years ago, and I'm not aware of any updates to it.

Several bottom lines in answering your question:1. While there are some things shown (as well as single very small studies can show them) about brain responses to specific meds; as for EEG responses to combinations of multiple psychoactive medications--well, I guess the position of the FDA and the drug companies and the medical community is, " the less known, the better. " There aren't any.

2. Back in the 90's when I was working with a lot of kids, Ritalin was the drug of choice--sometimes dexedrine--and that was swell, because it was in and out of the system in a matter of hours, so you could skip a dose or put one off and, aside from making the assessment that much harder to gather, it was no harm/no foul. For the last decade, though, the big push with medications has been to build up blood levels. In other words, you could skip a dose of Adderall--maybe even a couple--and not have it make much difference in the level in the blood.

Interesting combination your client's doctor has come up with: an opiod and a sedative, which should slow the brain WAY down--and a stimulant designed to speed it up. (This person actually gets up at 4am to take a sleep medication?!)

So the rules I use are these:Train the brain that's in front of you. If it happens to contain a chemical swamp, that's fairly common these days, and you either have to refuse to work with people taking meds or work around the meds.

andGet a good list of signs of OVER-medication for each of the meds and have the client watch carefully for those as you train. Changing the EEG will change the chemistry in the brain and that often results in the dosages becoming too high. If you have a cooperative medicator, they may be willing to titrate down the dosages of the indicated meds as the training progresses.

Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

How much will medications skew the results of a TLC?

I did a brain map on the client of another clinician, who forgot to tell the client not to take medications prior to the map. We were going to forgo the map (for other reasons as well), but continued due to scheduling issues, and the dire circumstances of the client (can't get out of bed, showering is overwhelming, difficult to get anywhere).

The map shows excessive levels of 2-4 Hz, and 19-38 Hz, everywhere. Beta peak frequencies range 20-34. Theta/beta ratios are as low as 0.19, among other issues.

Here are the meds involved:

Ambien 10mg at 4am

Percocet at 7am

Adderall at 10am

Brain map at 2pm (usually, these are before 11am, extenuating circumstances)

[Guest guest]

Thanks much to all who responded...useful and fascinating information!

-Gretchen

[Guest guest]

Thanks much to all who responded...useful and fascinating information!

-Gretchen