PTSD tx again

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This is certainly a topic upon which reasonable persons can disagree. Nath's posts were on the mark about PTSD being a spectrum disorder.PTSD is not a unitary, well-defined disorder either in the DSM-IV or within the world of braintrainers.PTSD from childhood trauma is quite different from combat-related PTSD and from chronic stress related PTSD symptoms and from trauma related to rape.Combat related PTSD can result in differing symptoms depending on whether the individual was a combat medic (think helplessness, guilt, feelings of incompetence), a LRRP (think nightmares of hiding, ducking, running), infantry (think blood and guts nightmares, guilt, exaggerated startle etc.) or in Iraq at a particular time when it was 120 degrees and they had to put on MOP gear every time the siren went off, never knowing whether it was a CBW attack or a drill.Childhood abuse and trauma - think more dissociative symptoms rather than hyperarousal. Childhood abuse, rape and domestic violence - also think more in terms of guilt and symptoms often associated with Borderline Personality Disorder.And of course, this post is also an oversimplification.Even if you think back to the Penniston work which has been cited, but not conclusively replicated, over and over. There were two crucial parts - one the alpha/theta training and the second part which was much like insight-oriented psychotherapy. There was a processing and discussion of images that spontaneously arose during the EEG BF session. In this sense it was a permissive graduated exposure. The images and thoughts re trauma arose no faster than the conscious mind was able to process them -- a fundamental difference from other more structured approaches.To conclude that the pRoshi or particular neurotherapy protocols will take care of it (whatever it is) , oversimplifies and goes far beyond any empirical data. And of course it is not necessary to relive or reexperience trauma, or come up with some rationale of where the problematic symptoms originated, whether an IED explosion or because Mom was mean. There are numerous here-and-now strength-based treatment models.Here's the deal: the diagnosis is imperfect; people face trauma with very different resources depending on their background; there are significant secondary-gain issues whether the trauma is a car accident or an IED explosion; one size does not fit all -- there is no single intervention. Further, most people with (especially combat-related) PTSD do get better over time no matter what. There are some individuals who are especially vulnerable to stress of any kind based on childhood abuse etc. who will have PTSD sx from events that other more resilient individuals would just shrug off.I'll still go with my post below. Anxiety disorders including PTSD have been successfully treated for many years using some form of low arousal training (#2, and this could be alpha/theta training) paired with imaginal or real life experiencing of a hierarchy of anxiety provoking scenarios, a bit at a time.Chuck - I liked the pRoshi for myself, but its efficacy with vets having PTSD was extremely variable. Some loved it and others could not stand it. This again goes back to each individual being an individual. In assessing post-concussive syndrome or mild TBI on returning Iraq vets now, I am struck by both the variety of experience (one shaped charge blasting the hell out of the vehicle or exposure to 100 gates or doors blasted open for entry with a quick reaction force) and the fact that mild TBI problems, depressive symptoms and PTSD have such a degree of overlap that there is no consensus among neuropsych specialists or neurologists as to what is what.Pete- Your assessment driving treatment is admirable, but again sometimes misses the big picture. All of these guys spend most of their life outside of therapy. They have jobs, bills, family issues and everything else that goes along with real life. Sometimes I have seen the most miraculous changes when a PTSD combat vet is able to simply find a job where he is appreciated and pays enough to support his family. There are probably some really significant changes in brainwave patterns associated with this. See "The Heart and Soul of Change" (APA press) by to see what 40 years of research has told us where most therapeutic change originates. It's a humbling book.b/rgds Dave Giffen4a.PTSD txPosted by: " Giffen" dlglists@... psylistWed May 28, 2008 8:35 pm (PDT)1. Find a supervisor with experience in dealing with the type of trauma and symptoms with which patient presents.2. Teach coping skills first (meditation, exercise to modulate mood, breathing techniques, mindfulness, Tai Chi, traditional Hatha Yoga, etc.)3. Pretty much everything after that ("trauma work" including CPT and EMDR) is a variation graduated exposure -- not "reliving" the experience ...that'ts what PTSD people do everyday and it's what they want to stop.4. Prazosin (minipress) is very effective for post-traumatic nightmares.5. Read up on treatment options through the National Center on PTSD site: http://www.ncptsd.va.gov/ncmain/information/6. The paradoxical response to deep relaxation is real, but can be overcome. If the person is a do-it-yourselfer, consider recommending home practice with the "Healing Rhythms" program from Wild Divine.b/rgdsDGBack to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (3)4b.Re: PTSD txPosted by: " Van Deusen" pvdtlc@... pe1746Thu May 29, 2008 2:59 am (PDT),I don't agree that NF or the Trauma Releasing Exercises are "graduatedexposure". The trauma does set up and maintain changes in body and brainpatterns which are stable. Releasing those patterns, which in my experienceoften occurs without any necessary recollection of their source, helps theorganism (the client) move beyond programmed responses to new experiencebased on past traumatic ones.PeteOn Thu, May 29, 2008 at 12:34 AM, Giffen <dlglistsgmail> wrote:> 3. Pretty much everything after that ("trauma work" including CPT and> EMDR) is a variation graduated exposure -- not "reliving" the> experience ...that'ts what PTSD people do everyday and it's what they> want to stop.> .>> -- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmailhttp://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (3)4c.Re: PTSD txPosted by: "Chuck " roshicorp@... roshidudeThu May 29, 2008 3:55 am (PDT)Indeed, Pete+And Dr. Giffen should know that the pROSHI can cause pattern release(implosion), without any "outside" intervention./ChuckD....http://roshi.com/ <http://roshi.com/>>> > 3. Pretty much everything after that ("trauma work" including CPTand> > EMDR) is a variation graduated exposure -- not "reliving" the> > experience ...that'ts what PTSD people do everyday and it's whatthey> > want to stop.> > .> >> > --> Van Deusen> pvdtlc@...> http://www.brain-trainer.com> 305/433-3160> The Learning Curve, Inc.>Back to topReply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post Messages in this topic (3)5.