Re: EEG dipping?

[Guest guest]

Tamson,

Send me a session file. pvdtlc@....

Pete

Hi Everyone-I have a weird one here. I'm working with a 20 yo male with longhistory of depression/dysthymia, anxiety, chronic (neuromyalgia-like)pain, and constant insomnia.I've done 5-6 sessions with him (2c squash ec at t3 t4) and he's

already getting quite a bit of improvement in sleep and anxiety. SoI'm not too worried at this point about the irregularity I'm seeingeach time I train him because he's consistently benefiting from the

training.However, I don't know what to make of the problem. And it's a littlehard to describe, so if anyone would care to see a session file, I'llemail it to you back channel (my email is " tamsonmft at gmail dot

com " ). I don't know how/if we can upload to this listserve, but Icould do that if it's possible.What's happening is this: channel 1 & 2 will look totally normal thenevery several seconds both channels will just dip down to the bottom

of the graph. It looks like a rollercoaster. This occurs every timeI work with him, and not at all with other clients. So it does appearto be an issue with his eeg, not equipment or something else.I've observed the client and he does not appear to be moving. I've

looked really close at his eyes, there doesn't seem to be muchmovement there. I've checked in with him about whether he is maybemoving his tongue without thinking about it. No to everything.I'd love to have anyone who is interested look at the session file and

let me know if you've encountered this and whether you know what isgoing on. I'm especially interested to know if it looks likesomething to worry about.

..

-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

Tamson,

Send me a session file. pvdtlc@....

Pete

Hi Everyone-I have a weird one here. I'm working with a 20 yo male with longhistory of depression/dysthymia, anxiety, chronic (neuromyalgia-like)pain, and constant insomnia.I've done 5-6 sessions with him (2c squash ec at t3 t4) and he's

already getting quite a bit of improvement in sleep and anxiety. SoI'm not too worried at this point about the irregularity I'm seeingeach time I train him because he's consistently benefiting from the

training.However, I don't know what to make of the problem. And it's a littlehard to describe, so if anyone would care to see a session file, I'llemail it to you back channel (my email is " tamsonmft at gmail dot

com " ). I don't know how/if we can upload to this listserve, but Icould do that if it's possible.What's happening is this: channel 1 & 2 will look totally normal thenevery several seconds both channels will just dip down to the bottom

of the graph. It looks like a rollercoaster. This occurs every timeI work with him, and not at all with other clients. So it does appearto be an issue with his eeg, not equipment or something else.I've observed the client and he does not appear to be moving. I've

looked really close at his eyes, there doesn't seem to be muchmovement there. I've checked in with him about whether he is maybemoving his tongue without thinking about it. No to everything.I'd love to have anyone who is interested look at the session file and

let me know if you've encountered this and whether you know what isgoing on. I'm especially interested to know if it looks likesomething to worry about.

..

-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

Tamson,

Send me a session file. pvdtlc@....

Pete

Hi Everyone-I have a weird one here. I'm working with a 20 yo male with longhistory of depression/dysthymia, anxiety, chronic (neuromyalgia-like)pain, and constant insomnia.I've done 5-6 sessions with him (2c squash ec at t3 t4) and he's

already getting quite a bit of improvement in sleep and anxiety. SoI'm not too worried at this point about the irregularity I'm seeingeach time I train him because he's consistently benefiting from the

training.However, I don't know what to make of the problem. And it's a littlehard to describe, so if anyone would care to see a session file, I'llemail it to you back channel (my email is " tamsonmft at gmail dot

com " ). I don't know how/if we can upload to this listserve, but Icould do that if it's possible.What's happening is this: channel 1 & 2 will look totally normal thenevery several seconds both channels will just dip down to the bottom

of the graph. It looks like a rollercoaster. This occurs every timeI work with him, and not at all with other clients. So it does appearto be an issue with his eeg, not equipment or something else.I've observed the client and he does not appear to be moving. I've

looked really close at his eyes, there doesn't seem to be muchmovement there. I've checked in with him about whether he is maybemoving his tongue without thinking about it. No to everything.I'd love to have anyone who is interested look at the session file and

let me know if you've encountered this and whether you know what isgoing on. I'm especially interested to know if it looks likesomething to worry about.

..

-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

What I wanted to look for was signs of sudden bursts of very fast activity--usually muscle related--which overloads the displays. There is a very large surge, which then results in everything dropping to zero while the display resets. Could also be caused by " popping " of electrodes that have high offset. If you are using electrodes of significantly different ages, this can happen.

Pete

Tamson~

I have worked with a gentleman who has severe tension in his scalp. The EEG (specifically the fast) will surge up and down. He describes muscle tension in his head as though the muscles in his scalp are like a tightly closed fist and as the session progresses the fist is slowly opening and loosening its self. Could the issue be something like this?

~

..

-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

What I wanted to look for was signs of sudden bursts of very fast activity--usually muscle related--which overloads the displays. There is a very large surge, which then results in everything dropping to zero while the display resets. Could also be caused by " popping " of electrodes that have high offset. If you are using electrodes of significantly different ages, this can happen.

Pete

Tamson~

I have worked with a gentleman who has severe tension in his scalp. The EEG (specifically the fast) will surge up and down. He describes muscle tension in his head as though the muscles in his scalp are like a tightly closed fist and as the session progresses the fist is slowly opening and loosening its self. Could the issue be something like this?

~

..

-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

What I wanted to look for was signs of sudden bursts of very fast activity--usually muscle related--which overloads the displays. There is a very large surge, which then results in everything dropping to zero while the display resets. Could also be caused by " popping " of electrodes that have high offset. If you are using electrodes of significantly different ages, this can happen.

Pete

Tamson~

I have worked with a gentleman who has severe tension in his scalp. The EEG (specifically the fast) will surge up and down. He describes muscle tension in his head as though the muscles in his scalp are like a tightly closed fist and as the session progresses the fist is slowly opening and loosening its self. Could the issue be something like this?

~

..

-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

Tamson,

If you'll expand your power spectrum to 0Hz to 60 Hz, you'll see that, immediately prior to each of those flattenings, there is a very large burst of 0-2 or 0-3 Hz activity and the amplitude goes through the roof. That would usually be something related to eye movement, cable movement, etc. The size of the increase in the signal swamps the registers that draw your waveform and the display flattens out until it can reset itself. Not sure how you would get this in the temporals. Your 0-2 signal is very large throughout much of the session. Again, it might be mismatched electrodes.

Pete

I have a weird one here. I'm working with a 20 yo male with longhistory of depression/dysthymia, anxiety, chronic (neuromyalgia-like)pain, and constant insomnia.I've done 5-6 sessions with him (2c squash ec at t3 t4) and he's

already getting quite a bit of improvement in sleep and anxiety. SoI'm not too worried at this point about the irregularity I'm seeingeach time I train him because he's consistently benefiting from the

training.However, I don't know what to make of the problem. And it's a littlehard to describe, so if anyone would care to see a session file, I'llemail it to you back channel (my email is " tamsonmft at gmail dot

com " ). I don't know how/if we can upload to this listserve, but Icould do that if it's possible.What's happening is this: channel 1 & 2 will look totally normal thenevery several seconds both channels will just dip down to the bottom

of the graph. It looks like a rollercoaster. This occurs every timeI work with him, and not at all with other clients. So it does appearto be an issue with his eeg, not equipment or something else.I've observed the client and he does not appear to be moving. I've

looked really close at his eyes, there doesn't seem to be muchmovement there. I've checked in with him about whether he is maybemoving his tongue without thinking about it. No to everything.I'd love to have anyone who is interested look at the session file and

let me know if you've encountered this and whether you know what isgoing on. I'm especially interested to know if it looks likesomething to worry about.

..

-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

Tamson,

If you'll expand your power spectrum to 0Hz to 60 Hz, you'll see that, immediately prior to each of those flattenings, there is a very large burst of 0-2 or 0-3 Hz activity and the amplitude goes through the roof. That would usually be something related to eye movement, cable movement, etc. The size of the increase in the signal swamps the registers that draw your waveform and the display flattens out until it can reset itself. Not sure how you would get this in the temporals. Your 0-2 signal is very large throughout much of the session. Again, it might be mismatched electrodes.

Pete

I have a weird one here. I'm working with a 20 yo male with longhistory of depression/dysthymia, anxiety, chronic (neuromyalgia-like)pain, and constant insomnia.I've done 5-6 sessions with him (2c squash ec at t3 t4) and he's

already getting quite a bit of improvement in sleep and anxiety. SoI'm not too worried at this point about the irregularity I'm seeingeach time I train him because he's consistently benefiting from the

training.However, I don't know what to make of the problem. And it's a littlehard to describe, so if anyone would care to see a session file, I'llemail it to you back channel (my email is " tamsonmft at gmail dot

com " ). I don't know how/if we can upload to this listserve, but Icould do that if it's possible.What's happening is this: channel 1 & 2 will look totally normal thenevery several seconds both channels will just dip down to the bottom

of the graph. It looks like a rollercoaster. This occurs every timeI work with him, and not at all with other clients. So it does appearto be an issue with his eeg, not equipment or something else.I've observed the client and he does not appear to be moving. I've

looked really close at his eyes, there doesn't seem to be muchmovement there. I've checked in with him about whether he is maybemoving his tongue without thinking about it. No to everything.I'd love to have anyone who is interested look at the session file and

let me know if you've encountered this and whether you know what isgoing on. I'm especially interested to know if it looks likesomething to worry about.

..

-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Pete and --

The problem has been consistent across the trainings---and I just got

the brand new electrodes (stamped) and used them with him on today's

session (which is the one I sent you). So I don't think the

electrodes are the problem---at least not all of it.

It doesn't surprise me that there would be those really low

bursts---he's so exhausted from just never really sleeping. I wonder

if his insomnia has left his so tired that if he closes his eyes, he

just ends up taking little mini-naps or something.

I've looked really closely at his eyes when I've done the training

with him and I don't see them moving very much. It could be that I

just don't see the movement. However, if these are bursts of really

slow brain activity...I wonder if I should include them in the squash.

What do you think about that? Maybe it's all moot if his sleep is

continuing to improve.

My biggest concern was that this might indicate something

serious---since I have not seen it before, I figured I better

investigate!

Thanks for your input!

T

>

> > Tamson~

> > I have worked with a gentleman who has severe tension in his

scalp. The

> > EEG (specifically the fast) will surge up and down. He describes

muscle

> > tension in his head as though the muscles in his scalp are like a

tightly

> > closed fist and as the session progresses the fist is slowly

opening and

> > loosening its self. Could the issue be something like this?

> > ~

> > .

> >

> --

> Van Deusen

> pvdtlc@...

> http://www.brain-trainer.com

> 305/433-3160

> The Learning Curve, Inc.

>