RE: Effect of having a nada/fada on your love life...

[Guest guest]

Bridgetk,

shouldn't you be more concerned with whether you will approve of him???

anyway, listen, take a risk and let it all hang out....bring him over, let

him see the mess, play him YOUR favorite music and whatever else you like.

after all you want someone who gets along with who you really are versus a

fake self, right? if he disapproves..fine..you wouldnt have gotten on with

him anyway!!! save youself the trouble.!!!

sharon

[Guest guest]

Bridgetk,

shouldn't you be more concerned with whether you will approve of him???

anyway, listen, take a risk and let it all hang out....bring him over, let

him see the mess, play him YOUR favorite music and whatever else you like.

after all you want someone who gets along with who you really are versus a

fake self, right? if he disapproves..fine..you wouldnt have gotten on with

him anyway!!! save youself the trouble.!!!

sharon

[Guest guest]

Kathleen,

Whew, you wrote a whole bunch! Let's see... I am female and have an undiagnosed

BPD

mother. I believe my father is co-dependent. I am co-dependent. I am also

married

(mostly happily) to a co-dependent (thankfully he's not BPD). When I got

married, I knew

nothing about BPD. I had previously been involved in an abusive relationship (2

years)

-- he abused me emotionally and raped me on a regular basis. I just barely

escaped from

that relationship. Luckily, I think I had enough insight to learn from the

experience

instead of repeating it. I would guess that's how I ended up with my NonBP

hubby instead

of with another abuser/BP.

My husband is a wonderful person, but our co-dependent traits can make things

hard

sometimes. We are in marriage counseling and working away -- with lots of good

results,

although we still have work to do.

I would guess that most of the posters are women because (like all things

related to the

mental health field) most men won't pursue the line of thinking we do (they

don't want to

be perceived as " weak " , " weepy " or the " victim " ). By no means are all men like

this, but

society has poisoned many of them to be afraid of their feelings. This means

painful

childhoods and pasts are better left unexamined. As far as more nadas than

fadas, you

mention that the classic abuser profile fits BPD. Maybe more men than women mix

physical

abuse with the BPD (I'm just speculating here), so maybe men are just called

abusive

instead of BP (and maybe their children seek help among other physically abused

children

instead of here). There are several people with fadas on this list -- maybe

there are

more but they aren't speaking up.

I also have a very difficult time with intimacy (emotional and physcial). Even

though I

love my husband very much, it's hard for me to tell him so. I also find it

incapable to

feel love for him when I am angry with him (I " split " him -- a BPD flea). It's

also

difficult for me to share with him the way I feel in general -- it makes me feel

VERY

vulnerable. Additionally, the closer we became emotionally, the less I wanted

to have

sex. Sex was great when there were no emotions attached to it (or him). But

when I

started to have feelings for him, it suddenly became really hard to have sex

(because sex

was no longer just physical, it was now an expression of my love). I went from

a person

that absolutely loved sex and feeling sexy, to someone that felt frigid. We

have been

together over five years, and this has been a persistant problem. There has

been some

improvement lately, but it is sporadic at best. I am so thankful for his love,

support

and patience.

I also have a hard time letting ANYONE know who the real " me " is (i.e., what

books,

hobbies, movies, etc. that I like). My hubby has proved over and over that he

won't

judge or criticize me, so I have a certain comfort level with him, but there are

still

issues. For instance, I've been captivated by Temptation Island (I know, guilty

pleasures -- it's like ogling a car wreck). He is very disdainful of this show

so I try

to hide from him that I'm watching it. Instead of saying, " I understand that

you don't

like this show, but I do, so I'm going to watch it. "

Actually, when I first started responding to your post, I felt that I really

didn't have

a problem sharing my likes with my SO -- but on closer inspection, I fear that

I, too,

look for reassurance that he'll agree with me before putting them out there.

Basically I think the following sentence sums up a lot of what you (and I) are

feeling:

<<plus I worry that he'll disapprove...>>

It sounds like you're afraid that he'll disapprove of EVERYTHING (your tastes,

your

apartment, your parents, you, etc.). I struggle with the same thing, and I

think it

stems from my co-dependency and lack of self-worth (i.e., just ME and WHO I AM

is not

good enough). It sounds like my particular experiences with my nada are

somewhat

different from those with your fada. BUT, so many of us KOs feel like twins

because no

matter how the BPD manifests itself, the outcome always seems to be the same

(more or

less). Therefore, the fact that you are a female with a male BP parent may have

some

bearing on your experiences, but I bet you still have a lot in common with most

people on

this list, whether they're male or female or have a nada or fada.

As far as introducing a boyfriend to fada... I would put it off as long as you

can. If

it's serious, hopefully you've been able to share what your family experience is

like,

and prepare him as best as possible for what is coming. Also, make sure it's

not an

open-ended encounter (e.g., going over to fada's house). Meet at a restaurant

for dinner

-- that way, when dinner is over, so is the encounter. I also find that having

more

people around dilutes nada's effect, so try to invite more " normal " people

(after all, we

don't want to compound the problem!) if possible (siblings? mother? family

friends?).

I would caution against focusing only on your " emotional intimacy with

boyfriends "

problem -- it's just a symptom of the bigger problem. Take a more global

view... try to

heal the wounds inflicted by fada and learn to be yourSELF and love yourSELF.

All the

rest will fall into place if you can accomplish this.

Rest assured that you will find plenty of company and understanding here!

Hugs,

Anon

--- Bridgetk74@... wrote:

> I've just noticed that most of the posters here are women who have

> nadas rather than women w/fadas (like myself) or men with nadas

> (although more of those than women w/fadas - come to think of it, am I

> the only woman w/a fada? the only one here w/a fada, period?)

>

> I know that about a third of people w/BPD are male, and that the

> classic abuser personality fits the profile for BPD, also so many

> people here and on the WTO list are women w/male exes or SOs w/BPD, so

> I can't be the only one...

>

> But anyway - I've noticed that I have a raging fear of intimacy going

> on, a desperate need for privacy, which of course comes from having

> had my boundaries violated routinely by my fada when I was a kid. I

> have a really, really hard time telling anyone I date about my real

> preferences in music or books or movies or whatever until I'm pretty

> sure that he'll agree with me. Likewise, I'm afraid to let anyone know

> my hobbies or anything about the " real " me - which of course comes

> from the same source. I feel like once he knows, there goes all

> chances for a relationship... but, ironically, the thing that keeps me

> from having a " real " or serious relationship is often that I seem too

> guarded to the guy in question, or it seems like the only thing I'm

> comfortable dealing with is sex (but w/sex, also, I have a hard time

> asking for what I want until it's clear what the guy's " style " is,

> which is another way of saying I wait until I'm certain I won't be

> rejected there either).

>

> All of this stems directly from having had an opposite sex parent who

> ridiculed any opinions or preferences (how could anyone listen to that

> crap? shouted while the radio station forcibly changed, me being

> forbidden to listen to what I most wanted to hear from then until the

> end of time). Any interest or hobby I had, my father would either: a)

> deny " You're not an artist " b)ridicule " That's so stupid, how could

> anyone waste their time with that " c) get so overinterested in that I

> would feel like I couldn't do it myself - i.e., he'd want to read

> everything I wrote if I did creative writing - he visited me at

> college once, and I came back from the bathroom to find him opening my

> desk drawers, which contained, among other things, my writing journal.

> When I slammed the drawer shut and told him to respect my privacy, he

> got really angry, shouted in earshot of everyone in the dorm, " I'm

> just trying to see how neat you are! " as if he had the right to police

> my tidyness anymore or as if that excused it or d)deliberately

> sabotage, as in the time he threw out a huge pile of newspaper

> clippings on Haiti that I needed for Model UN, again claiming that he

> was " helping me clean my room. " Never mind that I'd hid them under my

> bed because I knew he'd throw them out... or e) any combination of the

> above.

>

> So I have really, really bad issues with trying to be truly

> (emotionally) intimate with the men I date. I've noticed that plenty

> of the women here w/nadas are married, a few very happily so to

> non-BPs and I'm wondering if having a same-sex nada/fada sort of

> lessens the impact of the intimacy stuff w/relationship partners

> somewhat...

>

> I'm also afraid that I'd have to introduce a serious boyfriend to my

> parents at some point, and I'm terrified of what he'll think...or what

> my dad will say to him (fada has another incredibly endearing habit of

> telling total strangers all sorts of embarrassing information about me

> and my past - i.e., that my junior prom date got kicked out of the

> event for being drunk - this, mind you, a full ten years after the

> 11th grade - whether or not I want him to; he thinks he owns me and

> all my personal information).

>

> I also have real problems having boyfriends over to my apartment. I

> live alone, have shoddy furniture (I'm kinda broke), and it's kind of

> messy here, which I like since fada was a compulsive neatnik and I

> find order too reminiscent of his attempts to control. But I find any

> potential SO's coming over too threatening and invasive, plus I worry

> that he'll disapprove...

>

> Can anyone relate to any of this? Also, any comments on the same

> sex/opposite sex BP parent thing?

>

> Thanks,

>

> Kathleen

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Kathleen,

Whew, you wrote a whole bunch! Let's see... I am female and have an undiagnosed

BPD

mother. I believe my father is co-dependent. I am co-dependent. I am also

married

(mostly happily) to a co-dependent (thankfully he's not BPD). When I got

married, I knew

nothing about BPD. I had previously been involved in an abusive relationship (2

years)

-- he abused me emotionally and raped me on a regular basis. I just barely

escaped from

that relationship. Luckily, I think I had enough insight to learn from the

experience

instead of repeating it. I would guess that's how I ended up with my NonBP

hubby instead

of with another abuser/BP.

My husband is a wonderful person, but our co-dependent traits can make things

hard

sometimes. We are in marriage counseling and working away -- with lots of good

results,

although we still have work to do.

I would guess that most of the posters are women because (like all things

related to the

mental health field) most men won't pursue the line of thinking we do (they

don't want to

be perceived as " weak " , " weepy " or the " victim " ). By no means are all men like

this, but

society has poisoned many of them to be afraid of their feelings. This means

painful

childhoods and pasts are better left unexamined. As far as more nadas than

fadas, you

mention that the classic abuser profile fits BPD. Maybe more men than women mix

physical

abuse with the BPD (I'm just speculating here), so maybe men are just called

abusive

instead of BP (and maybe their children seek help among other physically abused

children

instead of here). There are several people with fadas on this list -- maybe

there are

more but they aren't speaking up.

I also have a very difficult time with intimacy (emotional and physcial). Even

though I

love my husband very much, it's hard for me to tell him so. I also find it

incapable to

feel love for him when I am angry with him (I " split " him -- a BPD flea). It's

also

difficult for me to share with him the way I feel in general -- it makes me feel

VERY

vulnerable. Additionally, the closer we became emotionally, the less I wanted

to have

sex. Sex was great when there were no emotions attached to it (or him). But

when I

started to have feelings for him, it suddenly became really hard to have sex

(because sex

was no longer just physical, it was now an expression of my love). I went from

a person

that absolutely loved sex and feeling sexy, to someone that felt frigid. We

have been

together over five years, and this has been a persistant problem. There has

been some

improvement lately, but it is sporadic at best. I am so thankful for his love,

support

and patience.

I also have a hard time letting ANYONE know who the real " me " is (i.e., what

books,

hobbies, movies, etc. that I like). My hubby has proved over and over that he

won't

judge or criticize me, so I have a certain comfort level with him, but there are

still

issues. For instance, I've been captivated by Temptation Island (I know, guilty

pleasures -- it's like ogling a car wreck). He is very disdainful of this show

so I try

to hide from him that I'm watching it. Instead of saying, " I understand that

you don't

like this show, but I do, so I'm going to watch it. "

Actually, when I first started responding to your post, I felt that I really

didn't have

a problem sharing my likes with my SO -- but on closer inspection, I fear that

I, too,

look for reassurance that he'll agree with me before putting them out there.

Basically I think the following sentence sums up a lot of what you (and I) are

feeling:

<<plus I worry that he'll disapprove...>>

It sounds like you're afraid that he'll disapprove of EVERYTHING (your tastes,

your

apartment, your parents, you, etc.). I struggle with the same thing, and I

think it

stems from my co-dependency and lack of self-worth (i.e., just ME and WHO I AM

is not

good enough). It sounds like my particular experiences with my nada are

somewhat

different from those with your fada. BUT, so many of us KOs feel like twins

because no

matter how the BPD manifests itself, the outcome always seems to be the same

(more or

less). Therefore, the fact that you are a female with a male BP parent may have

some

bearing on your experiences, but I bet you still have a lot in common with most

people on

this list, whether they're male or female or have a nada or fada.

As far as introducing a boyfriend to fada... I would put it off as long as you

can. If

it's serious, hopefully you've been able to share what your family experience is

like,

and prepare him as best as possible for what is coming. Also, make sure it's

not an

open-ended encounter (e.g., going over to fada's house). Meet at a restaurant

for dinner

-- that way, when dinner is over, so is the encounter. I also find that having

more

people around dilutes nada's effect, so try to invite more " normal " people

(after all, we

don't want to compound the problem!) if possible (siblings? mother? family

friends?).

I would caution against focusing only on your " emotional intimacy with

boyfriends "

problem -- it's just a symptom of the bigger problem. Take a more global

view... try to

heal the wounds inflicted by fada and learn to be yourSELF and love yourSELF.

All the

rest will fall into place if you can accomplish this.

Rest assured that you will find plenty of company and understanding here!

Hugs,

Anon

--- Bridgetk74@... wrote:

> I've just noticed that most of the posters here are women who have

> nadas rather than women w/fadas (like myself) or men with nadas

> (although more of those than women w/fadas - come to think of it, am I

> the only woman w/a fada? the only one here w/a fada, period?)

>

> I know that about a third of people w/BPD are male, and that the

> classic abuser personality fits the profile for BPD, also so many

> people here and on the WTO list are women w/male exes or SOs w/BPD, so

> I can't be the only one...

>

> But anyway - I've noticed that I have a raging fear of intimacy going

> on, a desperate need for privacy, which of course comes from having

> had my boundaries violated routinely by my fada when I was a kid. I

> have a really, really hard time telling anyone I date about my real

> preferences in music or books or movies or whatever until I'm pretty

> sure that he'll agree with me. Likewise, I'm afraid to let anyone know

> my hobbies or anything about the " real " me - which of course comes

> from the same source. I feel like once he knows, there goes all

> chances for a relationship... but, ironically, the thing that keeps me

> from having a " real " or serious relationship is often that I seem too

> guarded to the guy in question, or it seems like the only thing I'm

> comfortable dealing with is sex (but w/sex, also, I have a hard time

> asking for what I want until it's clear what the guy's " style " is,

> which is another way of saying I wait until I'm certain I won't be

> rejected there either).

>

> All of this stems directly from having had an opposite sex parent who

> ridiculed any opinions or preferences (how could anyone listen to that

> crap? shouted while the radio station forcibly changed, me being

> forbidden to listen to what I most wanted to hear from then until the

> end of time). Any interest or hobby I had, my father would either: a)

> deny " You're not an artist " b)ridicule " That's so stupid, how could

> anyone waste their time with that " c) get so overinterested in that I

> would feel like I couldn't do it myself - i.e., he'd want to read

> everything I wrote if I did creative writing - he visited me at

> college once, and I came back from the bathroom to find him opening my

> desk drawers, which contained, among other things, my writing journal.

> When I slammed the drawer shut and told him to respect my privacy, he

> got really angry, shouted in earshot of everyone in the dorm, " I'm

> just trying to see how neat you are! " as if he had the right to police

> my tidyness anymore or as if that excused it or d)deliberately

> sabotage, as in the time he threw out a huge pile of newspaper

> clippings on Haiti that I needed for Model UN, again claiming that he

> was " helping me clean my room. " Never mind that I'd hid them under my

> bed because I knew he'd throw them out... or e) any combination of the

> above.

>

> So I have really, really bad issues with trying to be truly

> (emotionally) intimate with the men I date. I've noticed that plenty

> of the women here w/nadas are married, a few very happily so to

> non-BPs and I'm wondering if having a same-sex nada/fada sort of

> lessens the impact of the intimacy stuff w/relationship partners

> somewhat...

>

> I'm also afraid that I'd have to introduce a serious boyfriend to my

> parents at some point, and I'm terrified of what he'll think...or what

> my dad will say to him (fada has another incredibly endearing habit of

> telling total strangers all sorts of embarrassing information about me

> and my past - i.e., that my junior prom date got kicked out of the

> event for being drunk - this, mind you, a full ten years after the

> 11th grade - whether or not I want him to; he thinks he owns me and

> all my personal information).

>

> I also have real problems having boyfriends over to my apartment. I

> live alone, have shoddy furniture (I'm kinda broke), and it's kind of

> messy here, which I like since fada was a compulsive neatnik and I

> find order too reminiscent of his attempts to control. But I find any

> potential SO's coming over too threatening and invasive, plus I worry

> that he'll disapprove...

>

> Can anyone relate to any of this? Also, any comments on the same

> sex/opposite sex BP parent thing?

>

> Thanks,

>

> Kathleen

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/29/01 4:04:51 PM Pacific Standard Time,

Bridgetk74@... writes:

<< fada has another incredibly endearing habit of

telling total strangers all sorts of embarrassing information about me

and my past - >>

I can relate - my mother used to do this more - if I hung around with her any

more than I do, Im sure she would start again. She'd play " isn't Lissa

stupid? " with a big smile. I can also relate to the privacy issue - whe she

comes over, which is very seldom now b/c I don't invite her, I have to hide

anything I don't want her poking into. when I was a young adult I had to

lock the bathroom door to prevent her from coming in while I was using the

bathroom or taking a bath without knocking. fun and games.

Lissa

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/29/01 4:04:51 PM Pacific Standard Time,

Bridgetk74@... writes:

<< fada has another incredibly endearing habit of

telling total strangers all sorts of embarrassing information about me

and my past - >>

I can relate - my mother used to do this more - if I hung around with her any

more than I do, Im sure she would start again. She'd play " isn't Lissa

stupid? " with a big smile. I can also relate to the privacy issue - whe she

comes over, which is very seldom now b/c I don't invite her, I have to hide

anything I don't want her poking into. when I was a young adult I had to

lock the bathroom door to prevent her from coming in while I was using the

bathroom or taking a bath without knocking. fun and games.

Lissa

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/29/01 4:04:51 PM Pacific Standard Time,

Bridgetk74@... writes:

<< fada has another incredibly endearing habit of

telling total strangers all sorts of embarrassing information about me

and my past - >>

I can relate - my mother used to do this more - if I hung around with her any

more than I do, Im sure she would start again. She'd play " isn't Lissa

stupid? " with a big smile. I can also relate to the privacy issue - whe she

comes over, which is very seldom now b/c I don't invite her, I have to hide

anything I don't want her poking into. when I was a young adult I had to

lock the bathroom door to prevent her from coming in while I was using the

bathroom or taking a bath without knocking. fun and games.

Lissa

[Guest guest]

>

> << fada has another incredibly endearing habit of

> telling total strangers all sorts of embarrassing

> information about me

> and my past - >>

Yep. My nada used to tell her boyfriend and his teenage son, in great detail

and in front of me, all about the various spankings she had given me. Talk

about humiliation!!! I realize now she was trying to turn him on. Maybe both

of them - who knows?

>