Re: My descent into oz.

[Guest guest]

Why are you so against meds for the depression?? It really sounds to me like

you are extremely depressed.

They are not addictive and they can make a tremendous difference in how you cope

and feel about everything in general.

Are you seeing a therapist? It's stated in several books including the UtheBM,

that children that live in very stressful enviroments as children may be

severely depressed as adults. Life is too short to live it unhappily. I think

natural is wonderful, but there can be a time for stronger meds until you can

get a grip on life. If you were diabetic wouldn't you take insulin????

Exercise helps too, but not if you can't get out the door!! I take the very

lowest dose of Zoloft and it does wonders.

My kids make sure I take it!! <grin>

Just my 2 cents.

Ilene in TX

[Guest guest]

Why are you so against meds for the depression?? It really sounds to me like

you are extremely depressed.

They are not addictive and they can make a tremendous difference in how you cope

and feel about everything in general.

Are you seeing a therapist? It's stated in several books including the UtheBM,

that children that live in very stressful enviroments as children may be

severely depressed as adults. Life is too short to live it unhappily. I think

natural is wonderful, but there can be a time for stronger meds until you can

get a grip on life. If you were diabetic wouldn't you take insulin????

Exercise helps too, but not if you can't get out the door!! I take the very

lowest dose of Zoloft and it does wonders.

My kids make sure I take it!! <grin>

Just my 2 cents.

Ilene in TX

[Guest guest]

Why are you so against meds for the depression?? It really sounds to me like

you are extremely depressed.

They are not addictive and they can make a tremendous difference in how you cope

and feel about everything in general.

Are you seeing a therapist? It's stated in several books including the UtheBM,

that children that live in very stressful enviroments as children may be

severely depressed as adults. Life is too short to live it unhappily. I think

natural is wonderful, but there can be a time for stronger meds until you can

get a grip on life. If you were diabetic wouldn't you take insulin????

Exercise helps too, but not if you can't get out the door!! I take the very

lowest dose of Zoloft and it does wonders.

My kids make sure I take it!! <grin>

Just my 2 cents.

Ilene in TX

[Guest guest]

Huge hugs for

{{{{{{{{{{{{{}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I am having a terribly busy day, but I wanted to post quickly to

let you know that you are not alone. I completely understand

what you are going through and have been there myself. Have

compassion for yourself. The best thing right now may be to

rest (your body and soul). Don't beat yourself up for not

exercising or cleaning the house. That can be done later (the

exercising and cleaning, that is -- beating up is NEVER allowed

. You are doing a lot of emotional work, so you have to allow

time and space for that. There have been times when I have felt

absolutely out of control, lost and desperate. During those

times I frequently criticize myself for not being " normal " ...

why can't I clean my house like " normal " people, why can't I

work a 40 hour week like " normal " people, why am I too tired to

exercise, etc., etc. That is my inner critic, busily shaming

me. If you are hearing the same voice, try to at least turn the

volume down some. Just give yourself permission to BE YOU, no

matter what that might mean. As awful as you feel, you will

come out the other side in one piece. Just hang in there.

As far as meds go, I understand your decision because I feel the

same way. Sometimes, when I'm feeling particularly depressed, I

consider taking St. 's Wart (an herb that has been shown to

help some people with depression). I never stay depressed long

enough to pursue it, but it's something to consider (if you

haven't already). I also believe that the herb kava kava has

been shown to help with anxiety and depression.

Stay with us ... we'll help you get through this. I think

it's a good sign that you posted and shared your feelings with

us -- that can sometimes be hard for us KOs when we've

retreated to our " cave " .

Big hugs,

Anon

--- already_free@... wrote:

> I hate to ask the question because I fear the answer may not

> be the

> one I want, but where does the line draw between fleas and

> BPD. When

> I read the posts of others here I always seems crystal clear

> to me

> that anyone who is asking the question, who is trying to

> function and

> improve must not be borderline. The borderlines are so

> resistant to

> actually looking at themselves.

>

> When it comes to myself, most of the time I see this the same

> way,

> but occasionally I really fear for my own sanity. Yesterday

> was one

> of those days. Ever since Thanksgiving I have been struggling

> with

> depression and the consequential difficulty in keeping up with

> my

> environment and myself. Cleaning my house becomes an effort

> when I

> need the order of a clean organized environment, etc. It

> becomes more

> difficult to take my vitamins, exercise and take care of

> myself, just

> when my brain chemistry is the most fragile and needs support.

> I have

> never taken nor want to take antidepressant medications. There

> are

> many reasons I feel this way, and I realize that some people

> may make

> different choices in this area. But that doesn't mean I will

> not

> pay the price if I don't do other natural things to support

> myself. Lately I have not been doing them.

>

> When I was a collage student I remember often feeling

> helplessly out

> of control. I was empty and frantic inside and the only things

> that

> would alleviate the pain even a little were going for walks

> and

> swimming. I did a lot of these activities and they were

> wholesome

> things. I also suffered with eating disorders from the time I

> was in

> high school, anorexia changing into bulimia; this was not so

> wholesome a method of coping. It's been a long time since I

> was

> actively bulimic but my increasing waistline bears testament

> that I

> still use food as a comforting and numbing agent. The extra

> pounds

> don't help my health and well being one bit.

>

> I have finally started the SWOE book and was reminded that one

> of the

> symptoms of BPD is self-hurting. My mother never cut or

> physically

> hurt herself. As an adult I have never done anything like this

> but

> when I was a child I used to bite myself as a way to avoid

> crying

> (and getting beaten for crying if I was at home or simply

> being

> embarrassed and out of control if I was at school); the

> physical pain

> was able to distract me from the emotional pain I was feeling,

> and

> yet was much less painful and more manageable than the

> emotional

> pain.

>

> For many years I have not felt that frantic emptiness. It had

> been

> long enough that I had sort of forgotten what this state feels

> like.

> I have felt depression sometimes and anxiety often. However I

> had an

> episode of the frantic emptiness yesterday. I image that is

> the basic

> state that my mother has lived in for the majority of her

> life.

> ly it's no wonder that borderlines often turn to drugs,

> alcohol, suicide or self-hurting. Whatever makes the pain stop

> for a

> minute or so must seem like a good thing to them. For a moment

> or two

> I think I managed some genuine compassion for my mother and

> her pain.

>

> Today my back pain is improving to the point that I can move

> around

> again. It's painful and slow going but at least I'm mobile.

> The terrible empty feeling is mostly past. And I have the

> first

> headache (not an incapacitating one) that I have gotten since

> starting to bare my soul here on this message board. I wonder

> if I

> will ever progress to the point where I can get angry without

> having

> my body fall apart. My theme song: " Still Crazy After All

> These

> Years " has the line " I fear I will do some damage some fine

> day. " Well at least the only damage I need to fear I'll do is

> to myself. That sets me apart from my Mother.

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi -

I am so sorry that you are feeling depressed. But I'm glad you're

here. Talking (or posting) can help so much.

I also have an eating disorder and have been diagnosed with Obsessive

Compulsive Disorder. (I compulsively pick at myself and sometimes

pull out my eyelashes.) I've read that this kind of " hurting "

behavior is a way that people self-soothe their anxieties. It

stimulates brain chemistry that acts like pain killers. Overeating

also is a self-soothing action that sedates you.

We all find our ways to cope, healthy or not. But it is our desire to

be better that differentiates us KOs from BPs. BPs are unaware of

their own behavior or its consequences. You know that you are going

through a rough time. All a BP can see is anihilation.

I am taking medication for my OCD (a low dose of Prozac) and it has

helped me immensely. Before the medicaiton, I was defensive (like a

knee-jerk reaction) to any suggestion that I had problems and needed

help. I know that if I didn't have the help from the medication, I

never would have been able to make the progress I have in these last

few months. But that's just me. =) You need to follow your heart and

do what's best for you. I know you're on the right path, just because

you're here!

Hugs,

Rosemary

> I hate to ask the question because I fear the answer may not be the

> one I want, but where does the line draw between fleas and BPD.

When

> I read the posts of others here I always seems crystal clear to me

> that anyone who is asking the question, who is trying to function

and

> improve must not be borderline. The borderlines are so resistant to

> actually looking at themselves.

>

> When it comes to myself, most of the time I see this the same way,

> but occasionally I really fear for my own sanity. Yesterday was one

> of those days. Ever since Thanksgiving I have been struggling with

> depression and the consequential difficulty in keeping up with my

> environment and myself. Cleaning my house becomes an effort when I

> need the order of a clean organized environment, etc. It becomes

more

> difficult to take my vitamins, exercise and take care of myself,

just

> when my brain chemistry is the most fragile and needs support. I

have

> never taken nor want to take antidepressant medications. There are

> many reasons I feel this way, and I realize that some people may

make

> different choices in this area. But that doesn't mean I will not

> pay the price if I don't do other natural things to support

> myself. Lately I have not been doing them.

>

> When I was a collage student I remember often feeling helplessly

out

> of control. I was empty and frantic inside and the only things that

> would alleviate the pain even a little were going for walks and

> swimming. I did a lot of these activities and they were wholesome

> things. I also suffered with eating disorders from the time I was

in

> high school, anorexia changing into bulimia; this was not so

> wholesome a method of coping. It's been a long time since I was

> actively bulimic but my increasing waistline bears testament that I

> still use food as a comforting and numbing agent. The extra pounds

> don't help my health and well being one bit.

>

> I have finally started the SWOE book and was reminded that one of

the

> symptoms of BPD is self-hurting. My mother never cut or physically

> hurt herself. As an adult I have never done anything like this but

> when I was a child I used to bite myself as a way to avoid crying

> (and getting beaten for crying if I was at home or simply being

> embarrassed and out of control if I was at school); the physical

pain

> was able to distract me from the emotional pain I was feeling, and

> yet was much less painful and more manageable than the emotional

> pain.

>

> For many years I have not felt that frantic emptiness. It had been

> long enough that I had sort of forgotten what this state feels

like.

> I have felt depression sometimes and anxiety often. However I had

an

> episode of the frantic emptiness yesterday. I image that is the

basic

> state that my mother has lived in for the majority of her life.

> ly it's no wonder that borderlines often turn to drugs,

> alcohol, suicide or self-hurting. Whatever makes the pain stop for

a

> minute or so must seem like a good thing to them. For a moment or

two

> I think I managed some genuine compassion for my mother and her

pain.

>

> Today my back pain is improving to the point that I can move around

> again. It's painful and slow going but at least I'm mobile.

> The terrible empty feeling is mostly past. And I have the first

> headache (not an incapacitating one) that I have gotten since

> starting to bare my soul here on this message board. I wonder if I

> will ever progress to the point where I can get angry without

having

> my body fall apart. My theme song: " Still Crazy After All These

> Years " has the line " I fear I will do some damage some fine

> day. " Well at least the only damage I need to fear I'll do is

> to myself. That sets me apart from my Mother.

>

>

[Guest guest]

> " Why are you so against meds for the depression?? It really sounds

to me like you are extremely depressed.

> They are not addictive and they can make a tremendous difference in

how you cope and feel about everything in general. "

Actually the antidepressant drugs are very addictive, and this is one

of my reasons for not wanting to take them. I also feel that they

treat a symptom and not the cause. No one got ill from a lack of

drugs. But people do get imbalances in their brains from stress,

allergies, nutrient deficiencies, environmental toxins, infections,

etc. It's a lot harder to do the detective work and then the

lifestyle changes to get there naturally.

My oldest female friend, who is also a KO, has taken Prozac for

years. She didn't feel she could hold together her schedule as a

single mother without it. I respect her decision to do what she felt

was best for her kids. I understand why some people choose to take

drugs.

KO's have been overloaded with emotional stress and if that has

resulted in the breakdown of their immune function then they may also

have stress from allergy and infection as well.

I have found that taking orthomolecular (large pharmaceutical)

dosages of some of the B vitamins, gingko, and when in trouble some

free amino acids is very helpful for me. It helps me to have less

allergic symptoms and less anxiety and depression. The B vitamins and

amino acids are used by the body to make the same neurotransmitters

that the drugs influence, but leave the body's own feed back

mechanisms to work. I know I need the vitamins the rest of my life

and have no good excuse for not taking them regularly when I was so

upset after thanksgiving. Depression makes it harder to take care of

myself; and a not so good negative loop developed. Drugs and vitamins

have one thing in common, they only work if you take them daily. Mea

culpa.

>

> Why are you so against meds for the depression?? It really sounds

to me like

> you are extremely depressed.

> They are not addictive and they can make a tremendous difference in

how you cope

> and feel about everything in general.

> Are you seeing a therapist? It's stated in several books including

the UtheBM,

> that children that live in very stressful enviroments as children

may be

> severely depressed as adults. Life is too short to live it

unhappily. I think

> natural is wonderful, but there can be a time for stronger meds

until you can

> get a grip on life. If you were diabetic wouldn't you take

insulin????

> Exercise helps too, but not if you can't get out the door!! I take

the very

> lowest dose of Zoloft and it does wonders.

> My kids make sure I take it!! <grin>

>

> Just my 2 cents.

>

> Ilene in TX