Re: Bioexplorer/Bioera training

[Guest guest]

Jay,

In the BioExplorer world there are several packages of pre-built protocols (you can find them at the software link at www.brain-trainer.com ). These kill two birds with one stone: You get something you can use right out of the box, and, as long as they don't lock the Signal Diagram, you can go behind the scenes when you find something you like and reverse engineer it. For people who are comfortable with the flow-chart graphical user interface, BE is pretty simple to use, but there are definitely some steep steps at the beginning of the learning curve.

BioEra is also remarkable powerful, but getting off the ground with it requires even more effort. We are in the process of developing a " Quick Start " package for it, like the 59 protocols in the BioExplorer QuickStart package we offer on brain-trainer, but I'm still in the cursing and stumbling stage at this point myself.

Pete

I've been considering using the Bioexplorer or BioEra softwares but I'm very intimidated by their process of protocol design. What is the best way to learn them? I find that there is a relative dearth of online instruction available for these systems - no tutorials or videos that I can find.

I see that BioEra can be used to design impressively simple training screens (Ex. Cygnet), but the process of creating such a design seems totally cryptic. I'm a very skilled computer user and builder but when it comes to these softwares I'm a bit lost.

Any advice?Thanks,Jay Gattis, Psy.D. -- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...

http://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

Jay,

In the BioExplorer world there are several packages of pre-built protocols (you can find them at the software link at www.brain-trainer.com ). These kill two birds with one stone: You get something you can use right out of the box, and, as long as they don't lock the Signal Diagram, you can go behind the scenes when you find something you like and reverse engineer it. For people who are comfortable with the flow-chart graphical user interface, BE is pretty simple to use, but there are definitely some steep steps at the beginning of the learning curve.

BioEra is also remarkable powerful, but getting off the ground with it requires even more effort. We are in the process of developing a " Quick Start " package for it, like the 59 protocols in the BioExplorer QuickStart package we offer on brain-trainer, but I'm still in the cursing and stumbling stage at this point myself.

Pete

I've been considering using the Bioexplorer or BioEra softwares but I'm very intimidated by their process of protocol design. What is the best way to learn them? I find that there is a relative dearth of online instruction available for these systems - no tutorials or videos that I can find.

I see that BioEra can be used to design impressively simple training screens (Ex. Cygnet), but the process of creating such a design seems totally cryptic. I'm a very skilled computer user and builder but when it comes to these softwares I'm a bit lost.

Any advice?Thanks,Jay Gattis, Psy.D. -- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...

http://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

Jay,

In the BioExplorer world there are several packages of pre-built protocols (you can find them at the software link at www.brain-trainer.com ). These kill two birds with one stone: You get something you can use right out of the box, and, as long as they don't lock the Signal Diagram, you can go behind the scenes when you find something you like and reverse engineer it. For people who are comfortable with the flow-chart graphical user interface, BE is pretty simple to use, but there are definitely some steep steps at the beginning of the learning curve.

BioEra is also remarkable powerful, but getting off the ground with it requires even more effort. We are in the process of developing a " Quick Start " package for it, like the 59 protocols in the BioExplorer QuickStart package we offer on brain-trainer, but I'm still in the cursing and stumbling stage at this point myself.

Pete

I've been considering using the Bioexplorer or BioEra softwares but I'm very intimidated by their process of protocol design. What is the best way to learn them? I find that there is a relative dearth of online instruction available for these systems - no tutorials or videos that I can find.

I see that BioEra can be used to design impressively simple training screens (Ex. Cygnet), but the process of creating such a design seems totally cryptic. I'm a very skilled computer user and builder but when it comes to these softwares I'm a bit lost.

Any advice?Thanks,Jay Gattis, Psy.D. -- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...

http://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

Jay,Yes the Cygnet software is quite elegant, and is a true BIoEra design,In terms of ease of protocol design BioExplorer is less complex.  Once you start in on it you will find it rather easy to use.  I have seen people go from total intimidation to "look at the cool stuff I did"  in the first day of BioEx instruction,If I remember right Van Deusen has developed a tutorial for BioExplorer.There are two big differences between BioEra and BioExplorer in terms of design creation.The first being the naming conventions used in each.  BioExplorer has names for objects that are at least somewhat descriptive of their purpose while the objects (called elements in BioEra) are named for their technical function.  For instance, BioEx has a percentile design where you simply select the percentile you want.  In BioEra you have the scalartimeratio object.  The second difference is how objects function.  In BioEx most of the function is preprogrammed.  In BioEra there is more flexibility on and more complexity as many values that are set in BioEx and be changed in BioEraFor instance, BioEx has a percentile design where you simply select the percentile you want.  In BioEra you have the scalartimeratio object.  There you set the epoch in samples, seconds, mSeconds etc. The object ranks the incoming data from lowest to highest value.  you have to calculate yourself what (based on sample rate and epoch where the percentile you want lies than enter that into the object.  So if you had a sample rate of 100 samples per second and an epoch of one second you would enter 90 for the 90th percentile.  Over a 2 second epoch you would enter 180 to get the 90th percentile.In BioEx you set up a bandpass filter and it has two outputs.  One for filtered wave the other for amplitude.In BioEra the bandpass filter sends out just the filtered wave.  The scalar instant transform object is used to convert it to amplitude.I have found the naming conventions to be the most difficult aspect in BioEra.  As I become more familiar with them the rest of the tprocess seems much smoother,The other thing about BioEra is that the developer, Jarek Foltynski, is very responsive to requests for help and suggestions for improvement,The interface for client and clinician is spartan but you can customize the look and feel if you want.  Adding dropdown menus, extra windows for displays, and custom graphics for bar graphs etc.In the long run BIoEra has abilities that BioEx does not.  Some of this is clear if you look at the online info about Cygnet.If you want to dive in quickly the BioExplorer with 's tutorial and/or designs purchased from folks who make them available is the most direct way to go.I suspect that as BioEra gets more popular then there will be training materials and premade designs available for it as well,.I've been considering using the Bioexplorer or BioEra softwares but I'm very intimyidated by their process of protocol design.  What is the best way to learn them?  I find that there is a relative dearth of online instruction available for these systems - no tutorials or videos that I can find.I see that BioEra can be used to design impressively simple training screens (Ex. Cygnet), but the process of creating such a design seems totally cryptic.  I'm a very skilled computer user and builder but when it comes to these softwares I'm a bit lost.Any advice?Thanks,Jay Gattis, Psy.D.

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[Guest guest]

Jay,Yes the Cygnet software is quite elegant, and is a true BIoEra design,In terms of ease of protocol design BioExplorer is less complex.  Once you start in on it you will find it rather easy to use.  I have seen people go from total intimidation to "look at the cool stuff I did"  in the first day of BioEx instruction,If I remember right Van Deusen has developed a tutorial for BioExplorer.There are two big differences between BioEra and BioExplorer in terms of design creation.The first being the naming conventions used in each.  BioExplorer has names for objects that are at least somewhat descriptive of their purpose while the objects (called elements in BioEra) are named for their technical function.  For instance, BioEx has a percentile design where you simply select the percentile you want.  In BioEra you have the scalartimeratio object.  The second difference is how objects function.  In BioEx most of the function is preprogrammed.  In BioEra there is more flexibility on and more complexity as many values that are set in BioEx and be changed in BioEraFor instance, BioEx has a percentile design where you simply select the percentile you want.  In BioEra you have the scalartimeratio object.  There you set the epoch in samples, seconds, mSeconds etc. The object ranks the incoming data from lowest to highest value.  you have to calculate yourself what (based on sample rate and epoch where the percentile you want lies than enter that into the object.  So if you had a sample rate of 100 samples per second and an epoch of one second you would enter 90 for the 90th percentile.  Over a 2 second epoch you would enter 180 to get the 90th percentile.In BioEx you set up a bandpass filter and it has two outputs.  One for filtered wave the other for amplitude.In BioEra the bandpass filter sends out just the filtered wave.  The scalar instant transform object is used to convert it to amplitude.I have found the naming conventions to be the most difficult aspect in BioEra.  As I become more familiar with them the rest of the tprocess seems much smoother,The other thing about BioEra is that the developer, Jarek Foltynski, is very responsive to requests for help and suggestions for improvement,The interface for client and clinician is spartan but you can customize the look and feel if you want.  Adding dropdown menus, extra windows for displays, and custom graphics for bar graphs etc.In the long run BIoEra has abilities that BioEx does not.  Some of this is clear if you look at the online info about Cygnet.If you want to dive in quickly the BioExplorer with 's tutorial and/or designs purchased from folks who make them available is the most direct way to go.I suspect that as BioEra gets more popular then there will be training materials and premade designs available for it as well,.I've been considering using the Bioexplorer or BioEra softwares but I'm very intimyidated by their process of protocol design.  What is the best way to learn them?  I find that there is a relative dearth of online instruction available for these systems - no tutorials or videos that I can find.I see that BioEra can be used to design impressively simple training screens (Ex. Cygnet), but the process of creating such a design seems totally cryptic.  I'm a very skilled computer user and builder but when it comes to these softwares I'm a bit lost.Any advice?Thanks,Jay Gattis, Psy.D.

--- USFamily.Net - $8.25/mo! -- Highspeed - $19.99/mo! ---

[Guest guest]

Jay,Yes the Cygnet software is quite elegant, and is a true BIoEra design,In terms of ease of protocol design BioExplorer is less complex.  Once you start in on it you will find it rather easy to use.  I have seen people go from total intimidation to "look at the cool stuff I did"  in the first day of BioEx instruction,If I remember right Van Deusen has developed a tutorial for BioExplorer.There are two big differences between BioEra and BioExplorer in terms of design creation.The first being the naming conventions used in each.  BioExplorer has names for objects that are at least somewhat descriptive of their purpose while the objects (called elements in BioEra) are named for their technical function.  For instance, BioEx has a percentile design where you simply select the percentile you want.  In BioEra you have the scalartimeratio object.  The second difference is how objects function.  In BioEx most of the function is preprogrammed.  In BioEra there is more flexibility on and more complexity as many values that are set in BioEx and be changed in BioEraFor instance, BioEx has a percentile design where you simply select the percentile you want.  In BioEra you have the scalartimeratio object.  There you set the epoch in samples, seconds, mSeconds etc. The object ranks the incoming data from lowest to highest value.  you have to calculate yourself what (based on sample rate and epoch where the percentile you want lies than enter that into the object.  So if you had a sample rate of 100 samples per second and an epoch of one second you would enter 90 for the 90th percentile.  Over a 2 second epoch you would enter 180 to get the 90th percentile.In BioEx you set up a bandpass filter and it has two outputs.  One for filtered wave the other for amplitude.In BioEra the bandpass filter sends out just the filtered wave.  The scalar instant transform object is used to convert it to amplitude.I have found the naming conventions to be the most difficult aspect in BioEra.  As I become more familiar with them the rest of the tprocess seems much smoother,The other thing about BioEra is that the developer, Jarek Foltynski, is very responsive to requests for help and suggestions for improvement,The interface for client and clinician is spartan but you can customize the look and feel if you want.  Adding dropdown menus, extra windows for displays, and custom graphics for bar graphs etc.In the long run BIoEra has abilities that BioEx does not.  Some of this is clear if you look at the online info about Cygnet.If you want to dive in quickly the BioExplorer with 's tutorial and/or designs purchased from folks who make them available is the most direct way to go.I suspect that as BioEra gets more popular then there will be training materials and premade designs available for it as well,.I've been considering using the Bioexplorer or BioEra softwares but I'm very intimyidated by their process of protocol design.  What is the best way to learn them?  I find that there is a relative dearth of online instruction available for these systems - no tutorials or videos that I can find.I see that BioEra can be used to design impressively simple training screens (Ex. Cygnet), but the process of creating such a design seems totally cryptic.  I'm a very skilled computer user and builder but when it comes to these softwares I'm a bit lost.Any advice?Thanks,Jay Gattis, Psy.D.

--- USFamily.Net - $8.25/mo! -- Highspeed - $19.99/mo! ---

[Guest guest]

Thank you both for the great information. I'm glad to hear that others experience the steep learning curve with these programs as well. I look forward to seeing the protocol package you are developing for BioEra Pete. I see that Cygnet's price just went from $500 to $8000, LOL. I hope that other developers give them some competition shortly because that's insane. It's a shame when development on something as great as Bioexplorer just disappears. Who knows maybe it makes way for BioEra that will eventually exceed it. I just hate to invest much $$ in a system that's DOA.

Thanks again, Jay

[Guest guest]

Thank you both for the great information. I'm glad to hear that others experience the steep learning curve with these programs as well. I look forward to seeing the protocol package you are developing for BioEra Pete. I see that Cygnet's price just went from $500 to $8000, LOL. I hope that other developers give them some competition shortly because that's insane. It's a shame when development on something as great as Bioexplorer just disappears. Who knows maybe it makes way for BioEra that will eventually exceed it. I just hate to invest much $$ in a system that's DOA.

Thanks again, Jay

[Guest guest]

Jay,

A final comment: If you are speaking of BioExplorer when you talk about a system that's DOA, you have misunderstood what I meant, and I'm pretty sure what meant as well. BioExplorer is very alive and kicking. Development of the next release of the software seems to be stalled somewhere, but after having seen what happened when the world was shoved kicking and screaming from Windows XP (which I guess was DOA, since Microsoft wasn't developing in it any more) into Vista, I personally have strong preferences for well-known " older " software that has lots of resources! There are certainly easier ways to do some things in BioEra that we all have asked for in BioExplorer, but there is precious little in the realm of training or providing meaningful feedback that a trainer would ever use in anything up to and beyond 8-channels that you can't do in BioExplorer.

As for the cost, the program with the QuickStart package I mentioned (59 protocols) and the Tutorial costs $530 complete.

Pete

Thank you both for the great information. I'm glad to hear that others experience the steep learning curve with these programs as well. I look forward to seeing the protocol package you are developing for BioEra Pete. I see that Cygnet's price just went from $500 to $8000, LOL. I hope that other developers give them some competition shortly because that's insane. It's a shame when development on something as great as Bioexplorer just disappears. Who knows maybe it makes way for BioEra that will eventually exceed it. I just hate to invest much $$ in a system that's DOA.

Thanks again, Jay

.. -- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...

http://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

Jay,

A final comment: If you are speaking of BioExplorer when you talk about a system that's DOA, you have misunderstood what I meant, and I'm pretty sure what meant as well. BioExplorer is very alive and kicking. Development of the next release of the software seems to be stalled somewhere, but after having seen what happened when the world was shoved kicking and screaming from Windows XP (which I guess was DOA, since Microsoft wasn't developing in it any more) into Vista, I personally have strong preferences for well-known " older " software that has lots of resources! There are certainly easier ways to do some things in BioEra that we all have asked for in BioExplorer, but there is precious little in the realm of training or providing meaningful feedback that a trainer would ever use in anything up to and beyond 8-channels that you can't do in BioExplorer.

As for the cost, the program with the QuickStart package I mentioned (59 protocols) and the Tutorial costs $530 complete.

Pete

Thank you both for the great information. I'm glad to hear that others experience the steep learning curve with these programs as well. I look forward to seeing the protocol package you are developing for BioEra Pete. I see that Cygnet's price just went from $500 to $8000, LOL. I hope that other developers give them some competition shortly because that's insane. It's a shame when development on something as great as Bioexplorer just disappears. Who knows maybe it makes way for BioEra that will eventually exceed it. I just hate to invest much $$ in a system that's DOA.

Thanks again, Jay

.. -- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...

http://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

Jay,I think the software itself may still be $500, but bundled with the games and neuroamp is 8,000.00.I am in the process of developing designs for the 4 channel QDS excalibur, which is the workhorse in my practice.I think there are many ways in which BIoEra surpasses BioEx right now, Cygnets dynamic changing of bandpass range as the reward frequency is changed is but one example.BioEra also can do JTF, which I have been able to do, and wavelets which I have yet to figure out.Thank you both for the great information.  I'm glad to hear that others experience the steep learning curve with these programs as well.  I look forward to seeing the protocol package you are developing for BioEra Pete.  I see that Cygnet's price just went from $500 to $8000, LOL.  I hope that other developers give them some competition shortly because that's insane.  It's a shame when development on something as great as Bioexplorer just disappears.  Who knows maybe it makes way for BioEra that will eventually exceed it.  I just hate to invest much $$ in a system that's DOA.Thanks again, Jay

--- USFamily.Net - $8.25/mo! -- Highspeed - $19.99/mo! ---

[Guest guest]

,I have a client who wants to do home training. A QDS Focus seemed the inexpensive way to go but I've got to make sure that I can support her on the software that runs it. Will your BioEra designs for QDS be available in some way?

Pete,That is good to hear about BioEx. I'm trying out the demo now, but for some reason I can't get Hyperpong to work with it (I'd like to see the games in action). I noticed the Demo version of the software seems to be an older 1.00 version, maybe it won't work with the most current games? That Quickstart package sounds pretty reasonable. Hmm... Do you know what reason I'd need the 'enhanced driver' from Brainmaster for BioEx for? (I have an Atlantis 4x4)

-J

[Guest guest]

,I have a client who wants to do home training. A QDS Focus seemed the inexpensive way to go but I've got to make sure that I can support her on the software that runs it. Will your BioEra designs for QDS be available in some way?

Pete,That is good to hear about BioEx. I'm trying out the demo now, but for some reason I can't get Hyperpong to work with it (I'd like to see the games in action). I noticed the Demo version of the software seems to be an older 1.00 version, maybe it won't work with the most current games? That Quickstart package sounds pretty reasonable. Hmm... Do you know what reason I'd need the 'enhanced driver' from Brainmaster for BioEx for? (I have an Atlantis 4x4)

-J

[Guest guest]

,I have a client who wants to do home training. A QDS Focus seemed the inexpensive way to go but I've got to make sure that I can support her on the software that runs it. Will your BioEra designs for QDS be available in some way?

Pete,That is good to hear about BioEx. I'm trying out the demo now, but for some reason I can't get Hyperpong to work with it (I'd like to see the games in action). I noticed the Demo version of the software seems to be an older 1.00 version, maybe it won't work with the most current games? That Quickstart package sounds pretty reasonable. Hmm... Do you know what reason I'd need the 'enhanced driver' from Brainmaster for BioEx for? (I have an Atlantis 4x4)

-J

[Guest guest]

Again, I'm working with the Demo and find that the DVD player won't show video on my second monitor. Displays fine on the primary monitor but when I drag the window to the second monitor it goes blank though the sound still plays. Odd. I'm wondering if this is a bug that's been fixed in later versions?

-J

[Guest guest]

The Games like hyperpong may use an interface specific to the Cygnet software.  I do not know if BioEra has an object like the server object in BioEx.  You could certainly email Jarek and ask.  As I mentioned earlier he is very quick to respond. The Focus would be a good choice.  It will a little while yet before I have designs to distribute for BIoEra.  I had not thought of distributing others but I do so for BIoEx so I  could certainly do the same for BioEra.The enhanced driver for BMr/BioEx is necessary to get any new BrainMaster to communicate with BIoEx.  ,I have a client who wants to do home training.  A QDS Focus seemed the inexpensive way to go but I've got to make sure that I can support her on the software that runs it.  Will your BioEra designs for QDS be available in some way?Pete,That is good to hear about BioEx.  I'm trying out the demo now, but for some reason I can't get Hyperpong to work with it (I'd like to see the games in action).  I noticed the Demo version of the software seems to be an older 1.00 version, maybe it won't work with the most current games?  That Quickstart package sounds pretty reasonable.  Hmm...  Do you know what reason I'd need the 'enhanced driver' from Brainmaster for BioEx for?  (I have an Atlantis 4x4)-J

--- USFamily.Net - $8.25/mo! -- Highspeed - $19.99/mo! ---

[Guest guest]

The Games like hyperpong may use an interface specific to the Cygnet software.  I do not know if BioEra has an object like the server object in BioEx.  You could certainly email Jarek and ask.  As I mentioned earlier he is very quick to respond. The Focus would be a good choice.  It will a little while yet before I have designs to distribute for BIoEra.  I had not thought of distributing others but I do so for BIoEx so I  could certainly do the same for BioEra.The enhanced driver for BMr/BioEx is necessary to get any new BrainMaster to communicate with BIoEx.  ,I have a client who wants to do home training.  A QDS Focus seemed the inexpensive way to go but I've got to make sure that I can support her on the software that runs it.  Will your BioEra designs for QDS be available in some way?Pete,That is good to hear about BioEx.  I'm trying out the demo now, but for some reason I can't get Hyperpong to work with it (I'd like to see the games in action).  I noticed the Demo version of the software seems to be an older 1.00 version, maybe it won't work with the most current games?  That Quickstart package sounds pretty reasonable.  Hmm...  Do you know what reason I'd need the 'enhanced driver' from Brainmaster for BioEx for?  (I have an Atlantis 4x4)-J

--- USFamily.Net - $8.25/mo! -- Highspeed - $19.99/mo! ---

[Guest guest]

Jay,I will test it out.  I know that was a problem with BIoEx as well with some of the older DVD codecs.  Windows sometimes balks at having the DVD play on a second screen.My sound card allows me to designate which monitor is primary and at my second office I use that function.  If you are running from a desktop machine you could just swap position of the monitors.Again, I'm working with the Demo and find that the DVD player won't show video on my second monitor.  Displays fine on the primary monitor but when I drag the window to the second monitor it goes blank though the sound still plays.  Odd.  I'm wondering if this is a bug that's been fixed in later versions?-J

--- USFamily.Net - $8.25/mo! -- Highspeed - $19.99/mo! ---

[Guest guest]

Jay,

you need the "enhanced driver" for your Atlantis 4x4 to run bioexplorer. Brainmaster in all their wisdom charges for this. It's worth it though, to be able to have bioExplorer working.

Re: Bioexplorer/Bioera training

,I have a client who wants to do home training. A QDS Focus seemed the inexpensive way to go but I've got to make sure that I can support her on the software that runs it. Will your BioEra designs for QDS be available in some way?Pete,That is good to hear about BioEx. I'm trying out the demo now, but for some reason I can't get Hyperpong to work with it (I'd like to see the games in action). I noticed the Demo version of the software seems to be an older 1.00 version, maybe it won't work with the most current games? That Quickstart package sounds pretty reasonable. Hmm... Do you know what reason I'd need the 'enhanced driver' from Brainmaster for BioEx for? (I have an Atlantis 4x4)-J

[Guest guest]

what do you find most useful about BioExplorer over the Brainmaster software? Is it the games?Thanks for the explanation of the necessity of the enhanced driver, that is very good to know.It's too bad my old Thought Tech amps aren't compatible with BioEx as well. But as far as I know they are only compatible with EEGer and Biograph.

-J

[Guest guest]

Jay,

The " enhanced " driver from BrainMaster is essentially a tax they charge to allow you to use BioExplorer with their hardware. It adds nothing to the software, but without it, you won't be able to use BE with your amp. It's a $100 subsidy, I guess.

Oh, and by the way, you'll only be able to use the first two channels of you Atlantis with BE. Brainmaster has for some reason never allowed the others to work with it.

Pete

,I have a client who wants to do home training. A QDS Focus seemed the inexpensive way to go but I've got to make sure that I can support her on the software that runs it. Will your BioEra designs for QDS be available in some way?

Pete,That is good to hear about BioEx. I'm trying out the demo now, but for some reason I can't get Hyperpong to work with it (I'd like to see the games in action). I noticed the Demo version of the software seems to be an older 1.00 version, maybe it won't work with the most current games? That Quickstart package sounds pretty reasonable. Hmm... Do you know what reason I'd need the 'enhanced driver' from Brainmaster for BioEx for? (I have an Atlantis 4x4)

.. _ -- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...

http://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

Jay,

The " enhanced " driver from BrainMaster is essentially a tax they charge to allow you to use BioExplorer with their hardware. It adds nothing to the software, but without it, you won't be able to use BE with your amp. It's a $100 subsidy, I guess.

Oh, and by the way, you'll only be able to use the first two channels of you Atlantis with BE. Brainmaster has for some reason never allowed the others to work with it.

Pete

,I have a client who wants to do home training. A QDS Focus seemed the inexpensive way to go but I've got to make sure that I can support her on the software that runs it. Will your BioEra designs for QDS be available in some way?

Pete,That is good to hear about BioEx. I'm trying out the demo now, but for some reason I can't get Hyperpong to work with it (I'd like to see the games in action). I noticed the Demo version of the software seems to be an older 1.00 version, maybe it won't work with the most current games? That Quickstart package sounds pretty reasonable. Hmm... Do you know what reason I'd need the 'enhanced driver' from Brainmaster for BioEx for? (I have an Atlantis 4x4)

.. _ -- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...

http://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.