need advice

[Guest guest]

2nd step, if 1st step not effective: contact local media, county and state

departments of education, and district attorney's office

_________________________________________________________________

Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your current Internet access and enjoy

patented spam control and more. Get two months FREE!

http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/byoa

[Guest guest]

I work on the habilitation needs of autistic kids who are high functioning enough to be able to play X-box, Nintendo DS, Gameboy and the like. What "mental" games would be ideal for kids 6 years to 12 years old range? They are so used to racing speed games and 'combat" games and i am wondering if "Wild Divine' and "Thoughtstream" (both of which i have never tried) would be enough to get them interested enough to immerself themselves with training. Also can Bio-explorer work with these two games? I just thought "thought-controlled' games would be of immense help to their lack of focus and attention.Please comment. Thanks. Van Deusen wrote: Our goal is to finish the video workshops on Placing Electrodes and the Basics of Brain Training in June and July. That will complete the package for introduction to the basic information, terminology and skills. Level 2, the information regarding brain activation patterns and how they relate to symptoms people are likely to experience, is already available in recorded form. I'll probably do another BioExplorer workshop and perhaps another Level 3--Managing the Training Process--this summer online as we continue to work toward getting everything into video format. The cost of travel--not to mention the great pleasure involved in it these days--has changed the whole equation of doing the traveling workshop tours for me and for participants. More importantly, the

feedback from those who have participated in the online workshop and have worked with the first Skills Video workshop has strongly reinforced the benefits of that format. In the onsite workshops, you get 1-5 days straight of 8-9 hours of material...one time. While I have had some people in workshops who I sincerely believe got every single word I said, most find that it is overwhelming. The online workshop allow participants to listen at home for two hours at a time--and then receive a recorded version of what they heard, if they want to review it. The videos are downloaded directly onto your computer and can be watched in whatever chunks work for the lifestyle or attention span of the user. I'll grant that I miss the workshop format, being able to tell jokes and act out the brain states and meet the participants, but after nearly 4 years being on the road half my days, I don't miss the travel at all. For those

who want to learn about brain training--if you want to learn from me--I strongly encourage you to try out one of the online or video workshops and see if it isn't a better alternative all the way around. Pete On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Carl Brahms <carl.brahmsgmail> wrote: I too have gone to Pete's level two class, and learning from him is incredible. I wish he was giving workshops this summer in the US. My wife is looking for an in-person training, and apparently doesn't like my disorganized and tangential teaching style ;-) .-- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmailhttp://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

,

I don't know about Thoughtstream, but Wild Divine is a completely freestanding game. It doesn't work with EEG electrodes or BioExplorer. It has a finger pad setup that reads galvanic skin response (a measure of sympathetic/fight or flight activation) and heart-rate variability (which activates the parasympathetic system). While Wild Divine is perhaps the best feedback game I've ever seen in its graphics and sound and the variety of tasks, it might seem " boring " to kids raised on Grand Theft Auto, etc. Part of this is the trainer's job, to get the client involved in the game, but it requires a response (calming, stilling) which is almost the opposite of what they are used to producing for standard video games, and where the standard games through high levels of stimulation at the player, Wild Divine does the opposite. It's like the difference between mowing a field by flying a helicopter over it upside down 6 inches from the ground and watching a flower open at dawn.

Pete

I work on the habilitation needs of autistic kids who are high functioning enough to be able to play X-box, Nintendo DS, Gameboy and the like. What " mental " games would be ideal for kids 6 years to 12 years old range? They are so used to racing speed games and 'combat " games and i am wondering if " Wild Divine' and " Thoughtstream " (both of which i have never tried) would be enough to get them interested enough to immerself themselves with training.

Also can Bio-explorer work with these two games? I just thought " thought-controlled' games would be of immense help to their lack of focus and attention.Please comment. Thanks.

-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

,

I don't know about Thoughtstream, but Wild Divine is a completely freestanding game. It doesn't work with EEG electrodes or BioExplorer. It has a finger pad setup that reads galvanic skin response (a measure of sympathetic/fight or flight activation) and heart-rate variability (which activates the parasympathetic system). While Wild Divine is perhaps the best feedback game I've ever seen in its graphics and sound and the variety of tasks, it might seem " boring " to kids raised on Grand Theft Auto, etc. Part of this is the trainer's job, to get the client involved in the game, but it requires a response (calming, stilling) which is almost the opposite of what they are used to producing for standard video games, and where the standard games through high levels of stimulation at the player, Wild Divine does the opposite. It's like the difference between mowing a field by flying a helicopter over it upside down 6 inches from the ground and watching a flower open at dawn.

Pete

I work on the habilitation needs of autistic kids who are high functioning enough to be able to play X-box, Nintendo DS, Gameboy and the like. What " mental " games would be ideal for kids 6 years to 12 years old range? They are so used to racing speed games and 'combat " games and i am wondering if " Wild Divine' and " Thoughtstream " (both of which i have never tried) would be enough to get them interested enough to immerself themselves with training.

Also can Bio-explorer work with these two games? I just thought " thought-controlled' games would be of immense help to their lack of focus and attention.Please comment. Thanks.

-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I'm very curious about how you relate the games to the areas of the

brain and also to the actual neurofeedback.

I can understand that if you want to train certain areas, say, up, you

would give tasks that use those areas of the brain. But then the

neurofeedback itself is also training that area of the brain, right?

So...I'm a little confused, in that you are now giving the person two

sets of feedback simultaneously, right? the feedback from your

neurofeedback machine (like the tone, if you're just doing audio) and

the feedback from the, e.g., Nintendo DS). Do you connect those in any

way, or are you just doing that to sort of " activate " or " focus " the

brain more in that area?

I am probably overthinking this? Also I guess you would not give games

if you are trying to increase the brain's ability to relax, decrease

anxiety, etc.?

thanks

>

> (post about using handheld devices etc. for games and tasks while

training with just audio feedback)

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I'm very curious about how you relate the games to the areas of the

brain and also to the actual neurofeedback.

I can understand that if you want to train certain areas, say, up, you

would give tasks that use those areas of the brain. But then the

neurofeedback itself is also training that area of the brain, right?

So...I'm a little confused, in that you are now giving the person two

sets of feedback simultaneously, right? the feedback from your

neurofeedback machine (like the tone, if you're just doing audio) and

the feedback from the, e.g., Nintendo DS). Do you connect those in any

way, or are you just doing that to sort of " activate " or " focus " the

brain more in that area?

I am probably overthinking this? Also I guess you would not give games

if you are trying to increase the brain's ability to relax, decrease

anxiety, etc.?

thanks

>

> (post about using handheld devices etc. for games and tasks while

training with just audio feedback)

[Guest guest]

and ,The new 2.1 version of BioEra has an "application player" element that allows you to control computer games.  You can have some parameters controlled by eeg and others with keyboard.   The 3D race game that is included uses eeg to control speed and keyboard to steer.  BioEra also has the ability to send keystrokes to external applications and games can be controlled that way as well, but the set up is  more difficult than with the application player. georgemartin@...www.northstarneurofeedback.com Hi , The Thoughtstream GSR system has it's own software (mindgames) that provides some games, progressively more challenging. and gives you a statistical output (POINTS)!!! to motivate a kid to do better every time. My gripe with the Thoughtstream is the palm sensor that has so much surface area that it becomes necessary to keep the hand completely still to hold a consistant signal. In other words, the signal becomes very easily effected by artifact (false data). Though it's graphics aren't so modern, they are better based upon science that we in psychophysiology know and respect. The wild divine has better graphics and the finger sensor is nice, but it doesn't have the science to support it (based on "the yogic breath"), nor the points to tell you how well you are doing overall over time. However. Perhaps the best match is: Wilddivine hardware with Somatic Visions software. That oughta give you a nice beginning info to offer your kid clients in their language.   More on EEG and games can be found on this list. Unfortunately, very little can be found on The Market.   Working on it,   need advice I work on the habilitation needs of autistic kids who are high functioning enough to be able to play X-box, Nintendo DS, Gameboy and the like. What "mental" games would be ideal for kids 6 years to 12 years old range? They are so used to racing speed games and 'combat" games and i am wondering if "Wild Divine' and "Thoughtstream" (both of which i have never tried) would be enough to get them interested enough to immerself themselves with training. Also can Bio-explorer work with these  two games? I just thought "thought-controlled' games would be of immense help to their lack of focus and attention.Please comment. Thanks. Van Deusen <pvdtlcgmail> wrote: Our goal is to finish the video workshops on Placing Electrodes and the Basics of Brain Training in June and July.  That will complete the package for introduction to the basic information, terminology and skills.  Level 2, the information regarding brain activation patterns and how they relate to symptoms people are likely to experience, is already available in recorded form.  I'll probably do another BioExplorer workshop and perhaps another Level 3--Managing the Training Process--this summer online as we continue to work toward getting everything into video format.   The cost of travel--not to mention the great pleasure involved in it these days--has changed the whole equation of doing the traveling workshop tours for me and for participants. More importantly, the feedback from those who have participated in the online workshop and have worked with the first Skills Video workshop has strongly reinforced the benefits of that format.  In the onsite workshops, you get 1-5 days straight of 8-9 hours of material...one time.  While I have had some people in workshops who I sincerely believe got every single word I said, most find that it is overwhelming.  The online workshop allow participants to listen at home for two hours at a time--and then receive a recorded version of what they heard, if they want to review it.  The videos are downloaded directly onto your computer and can be watched in whatever chunks work for the lifestyle or attention span of the user.   I'll grant that I miss the workshop format, being able to tell jokes and act out the brain states and meet the participants, but after nearly 4 years being on the road half my days, I don't miss the travel at all.  For those who want to learn about brain training--if you want to learn from me--I strongly encourage you to try out one of the online or video workshops and see if it isn't a better alternative all the way around.   Pete On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Carl Brahms <carl.brahmsgmail> wrote: I too have gone to Pete's level two class, and learning from him is incredible.  I wish he was giving workshops this summer in the US.  My wife is looking for an in-person training, and apparently doesn't like my disorganized and tangential teaching style ;-) .-- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmailhttp://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

--- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! ---

[Guest guest]

and ,The new 2.1 version of BioEra has an "application player" element that allows you to control computer games.  You can have some parameters controlled by eeg and others with keyboard.   The 3D race game that is included uses eeg to control speed and keyboard to steer.  BioEra also has the ability to send keystrokes to external applications and games can be controlled that way as well, but the set up is  more difficult than with the application player. georgemartin@...www.northstarneurofeedback.com Hi , The Thoughtstream GSR system has it's own software (mindgames) that provides some games, progressively more challenging. and gives you a statistical output (POINTS)!!! to motivate a kid to do better every time. My gripe with the Thoughtstream is the palm sensor that has so much surface area that it becomes necessary to keep the hand completely still to hold a consistant signal. In other words, the signal becomes very easily effected by artifact (false data). Though it's graphics aren't so modern, they are better based upon science that we in psychophysiology know and respect. The wild divine has better graphics and the finger sensor is nice, but it doesn't have the science to support it (based on "the yogic breath"), nor the points to tell you how well you are doing overall over time. However. Perhaps the best match is: Wilddivine hardware with Somatic Visions software. That oughta give you a nice beginning info to offer your kid clients in their language.   More on EEG and games can be found on this list. Unfortunately, very little can be found on The Market.   Working on it,   need advice I work on the habilitation needs of autistic kids who are high functioning enough to be able to play X-box, Nintendo DS, Gameboy and the like. What "mental" games would be ideal for kids 6 years to 12 years old range? They are so used to racing speed games and 'combat" games and i am wondering if "Wild Divine' and "Thoughtstream" (both of which i have never tried) would be enough to get them interested enough to immerself themselves with training. Also can Bio-explorer work with these  two games? I just thought "thought-controlled' games would be of immense help to their lack of focus and attention.Please comment. Thanks. Van Deusen <pvdtlcgmail> wrote: Our goal is to finish the video workshops on Placing Electrodes and the Basics of Brain Training in June and July.  That will complete the package for introduction to the basic information, terminology and skills.  Level 2, the information regarding brain activation patterns and how they relate to symptoms people are likely to experience, is already available in recorded form.  I'll probably do another BioExplorer workshop and perhaps another Level 3--Managing the Training Process--this summer online as we continue to work toward getting everything into video format.   The cost of travel--not to mention the great pleasure involved in it these days--has changed the whole equation of doing the traveling workshop tours for me and for participants. More importantly, the feedback from those who have participated in the online workshop and have worked with the first Skills Video workshop has strongly reinforced the benefits of that format.  In the onsite workshops, you get 1-5 days straight of 8-9 hours of material...one time.  While I have had some people in workshops who I sincerely believe got every single word I said, most find that it is overwhelming.  The online workshop allow participants to listen at home for two hours at a time--and then receive a recorded version of what they heard, if they want to review it.  The videos are downloaded directly onto your computer and can be watched in whatever chunks work for the lifestyle or attention span of the user.   I'll grant that I miss the workshop format, being able to tell jokes and act out the brain states and meet the participants, but after nearly 4 years being on the road half my days, I don't miss the travel at all.  For those who want to learn about brain training--if you want to learn from me--I strongly encourage you to try out one of the online or video workshops and see if it isn't a better alternative all the way around.   Pete On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Carl Brahms <carl.brahmsgmail> wrote: I too have gone to Pete's level two class, and learning from him is incredible.  I wish he was giving workshops this summer in the US.  My wife is looking for an in-person training, and apparently doesn't like my disorganized and tangential teaching style ;-) .-- Van Deusenpvdtlcgmailhttp://www.brain-trainer.com305/433-3160The Learning Curve, Inc.

--- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! ---

[Guest guest]

Attention to and awareness of feedback are two different things all together.  My belief is that awareness of the feedback is sufficient.  I have had several very oppositional you clients who have refused to look at or listen to the feedback, and still improved.  I think it is because although the were not "listening" they were still hearing.I do a few sessions with just feedback before I do the feedback with games or other tasks so they are familiar with the procedure.  The first few minutes of each session are with feedback only.   I spend the whole session with the client and as a result I can see how they are doing.  If they begin to falter in the training I will have them attend directly to the feedback again for a short time. georgemartin@...www.northstarneurofeedback.com I thought that, while the client is not "trying" to achieve a goalduring neurofeedback, s/he is supposed to be paying attention. So I'mwondering what the effects are of splitting that attention. Or do younot concern yourself at all with attention to the neurofeedbackstimuli? thanksliz (post about using handheld devices etc. for games and tasks while training with just audio feedback)------------------------------------