Re: Thinking about doing ABA for my son, advic...

[Guest guest]

ABA was very much the wrong thing for my son. We did it for about 2 and

a half years in total. Vicky's son and my son are very different (I've

not him) but my son's biggest difficulties were/ are social, play, he

wasn't a happy boy (is now) NATURAL eye contact (not " look at me " ABA

eye contact), sharing, showing, enjoying being around people reading and

making facial expression - basically all the stuff that NT kids learn in

their first year. So for us the answer has been Intensive Interaction. I

am very very happy with it. I am just about to start an advanced course

in it. At the moment it's not very available to parents or families

although it is easy to implement and easy to be flexible with. It's

cheap and British. (I mean books etc are aimed at professionals). I am

always very happy to chat about II with anyone who's interested,

Sara (01792 296017)

[Guest guest]

Neither of my boys are have social skills, if they had then I guess they wouldn't be autistic.

Unfortunately as well as, or maybe on top of, we have LD's, this makes teaching social skills even harder and in 's case who is profoundly autistic pretty much a waste of valuable time. At 14yrs old we cannot waste time trying to instill play skills when he cannot speak a word and is still prone to mindless rage cycles. This is why imho level of functioning and age will probably determine which therapy is most appropriate.

may have done better on play based therapy when he was very much younger, that is if he hadn't been in desperate pain of course!

would probably have gained much from RDI but not sure it was that well known 12yrs ago, certainly I hadn't heard of it.

Vicky

Re: Thinking about doing ABA for my son, advic...

ABA was very much the wrong thing for my son. We did it for about 2 and

a half years in total. Vicky's son and my son are very different (I've

not him) but my son's biggest difficulties were/ are social, play, he

wasn't a happy boy (is now) NATURAL eye contact (not "look at me" ABA

eye contact), sharing, showing, enjoying being around people reading and

making facial expression - basically all the stuff that NT kids learn in

their first year. So for us the answer has been Intensive Interaction. I

am very very happy with it. I am just about to start an advanced course

in it. At the moment it's not very available to parents or families

although it is easy to implement and easy to be flexible with. It's

cheap and British. (I mean books etc are aimed at professionals). I am

always very happy to chat about II with anyone who's interested,

Sara (01792 296017)

[Guest guest]

Just wanted to say I really agree with this Vicky - I don't know much about RDI

- want to look at it as it's on the Treating Autism conference stuff and I could

see that for , play skills are understandably not high on the list of

priorities. I think Sophie's original post was about her 4.5 year old and I

just wanted to make the point that at that age I think ABA could still be very

helpful for teaching play skills. I think that's the point about a lot of the

things we do - it really depends on what age / skills your child has and what

stage you're at in the whole journey through therapy / biomed stuff - what works

for one person will be useless for someone else.

Sara - I'd also just make the point that despite the fact that in the early days

Hugo would never make appropriate eye contact / greet people appropriately we

were specifically taught (by our ABA case manager / tutors) to never say " look

at me " as it was aversive and counter-productive for him. We got round it in

other ways and he eventually picked it up and now uses it totally appropriately.

Just wanted to point that out as not all ABA is of the rigid 'Do this' type

anymore...

Apologies for my stream of consciousness rant - climbing off my soap box now!!

Lorna

xxx

>

>

> Neither of my boys are have social skills, if they had then I guess they

wouldn't be autistic.

> Unfortunately as well as, or maybe on top of, we have LD's, this makes

teaching social skills even harder and in 's case who is profoundly autistic

pretty much a waste of valuable time. At 14yrs old we cannot waste time trying

to instill play skills when he cannot speak a word and is still prone to

mindless rage cycles. This is why imho level of functioning and age will

probably determine which therapy is most appropriate.

> may have done better on play based therapy when he was very much

younger, that is if he hadn't been in desperate pain of course!

> would probably have gained much from RDI but not sure it was that well

known 12yrs ago, certainly I hadn't heard of it.

> Vicky

>

>

>

>

>

> Re: Thinking about doing ABA for my son,

advic...

>

>

>

>

>

> ABA was very much the wrong thing for my son. We did it for about 2 and

> a half years in total. Vicky's son and my son are very different (I've

> not him) but my son's biggest difficulties were/ are social, play, he

> wasn't a happy boy (is now) NATURAL eye contact (not " look at me " ABA

> eye contact), sharing, showing, enjoying being around people reading and

> making facial expression - basically all the stuff that NT kids learn in

> their first year. So for us the answer has been Intensive Interaction. I

> am very very happy with it. I am just about to start an advanced course

> in it. At the moment it's not very available to parents or families

> although it is easy to implement and easy to be flexible with. It's

> cheap and British. (I mean books etc are aimed at professionals). I am

> always very happy to chat about II with anyone who's interested,

> Sara (01792 296017)

>

[Guest guest]

Just to add that we were told 14 years ago by the Lovaas clinic to not use

" look at me " with my then 2 year old as the' look at me 'program was redundant !

so its always sad and frustrating to hear that its still used.

Nina

> Sara - I'd also just make the point that despite the fact that in the early

days Hugo would never make appropriate eye contact / greet people appropriately

we were specifically taught (by our ABA case manager / tutors) to never say

" look at me " as it was aversive and counter-productive for him. We got round it

in other ways and he eventually picked it up and now uses it totally

appropriately. Just wanted to point that out as not all ABA is of the rigid 'Do

this' type anymore...

>

>

> Lorna

> xxx

>

>

[Guest guest]

A support worker was saying 'look at me' to my adult son a few weeks ago. I can

only think the support worker picked it up from a school in Norwich where he

also supports an autistic primary school child, so it's still current. I told

him to stop btw.

Patience

>

> Just to add that we were told 14 years ago by the Lovaas clinic to not use

" look at me " with my then 2 year old as the' look at me 'program was redundant !

so its always sad and frustrating to hear that its still used.

> Nina

>

>

> > Sara - I'd also just make the point that despite the fact that in the early

days Hugo would never make appropriate eye contact / greet people appropriately

we were specifically taught (by our ABA case manager / tutors) to never say

" look at me " as it was aversive and counter-productive for him. We got round it

in other ways and he eventually picked it up and now uses it totally

appropriately. Just wanted to point that out as not all ABA is of the rigid 'Do

this' type anymore...

> >

> >

> > Lorna

> > xxx

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Not strictly" look at me" because generally does anyway but he will struggle to look at anything we may be working on, visual skills are on the floor tbh, he cannot scan consistently or well, does not follow a point or even look at his own pointed items! is not a visual learner.

Going to see Ian Jordan in 6 weeks, can't wait. My point though is we have never insisted he look at things so that by itself hasn't improved anything, more often than not though needs and wants instruction, kind of don't want to know what that tells me.

Lorna I agree with you I think ABA/VB is probably pretty good for pre-schoolers as is a lot of therapies, early intervention and all that, my experience is it is largely play based, if a child learns through play then that would be ideal.

Vicky

Re: Thinking about doing ABA for my son, advic...

A support worker was saying 'look at me' to my adult son a few weeks ago. I can only think the support worker picked it up from a school in Norwich where he also supports an autistic primary school child, so it's still current. I told him to stop btw.

Patience

>

> Just to add that we were told 14 years ago by the Lovaas clinic to not use "look at me"with my then 2 year old as the' look at me 'program was redundant ! so its always sad and frustrating to hear that its still used.

> Nina

>

>

> > Sara - I'd also just make the point that despite the fact that in the early days Hugo would never make appropriate eye contact / greet people appropriately we were specifically taught (by our ABA case manager / tutors) to never say "look at me" as it was aversive and counter-productive for him. We got round it in other ways and he eventually picked it up and now uses it totally appropriately. Just wanted to point that out as not all ABA is of the rigid 'Do this' type anymore...

> >

> >

> > Lorna

> > xxx

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Not strictly" look at me" because generally does anyway but he will struggle to look at anything we may be working on, visual skills are on the floor tbh, he cannot scan consistently or well, does not follow a point or even look at his own pointed items! is not a visual learner.

Going to see Ian Jordan in 6 weeks, can't wait. My point though is we have never insisted he look at things so that by itself hasn't improved anything, more often than not though needs and wants instruction, kind of don't want to know what that tells me.

Lorna I agree with you I think ABA/VB is probably pretty good for pre-schoolers as is a lot of therapies, early intervention and all that, my experience is it is largely play based, if a child learns through play then that would be ideal.

Vicky

Re: Thinking about doing ABA for my son, advic...

A support worker was saying 'look at me' to my adult son a few weeks ago. I can only think the support worker picked it up from a school in Norwich where he also supports an autistic primary school child, so it's still current. I told him to stop btw.

Patience

>

> Just to add that we were told 14 years ago by the Lovaas clinic to not use "look at me"with my then 2 year old as the' look at me 'program was redundant ! so its always sad and frustrating to hear that its still used.

> Nina

>

>

> > Sara - I'd also just make the point that despite the fact that in the early days Hugo would never make appropriate eye contact / greet people appropriately we were specifically taught (by our ABA case manager / tutors) to never say "look at me" as it was aversive and counter-productive for him. We got round it in other ways and he eventually picked it up and now uses it totally appropriately. Just wanted to point that out as not all ABA is of the rigid 'Do this' type anymore...

> >

> >

> > Lorna

> > xxx

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Not strictly" look at me" because generally does anyway but he will struggle to look at anything we may be working on, visual skills are on the floor tbh, he cannot scan consistently or well, does not follow a point or even look at his own pointed items! is not a visual learner.

Going to see Ian Jordan in 6 weeks, can't wait. My point though is we have never insisted he look at things so that by itself hasn't improved anything, more often than not though needs and wants instruction, kind of don't want to know what that tells me.

Lorna I agree with you I think ABA/VB is probably pretty good for pre-schoolers as is a lot of therapies, early intervention and all that, my experience is it is largely play based, if a child learns through play then that would be ideal.

Vicky

Re: Thinking about doing ABA for my son, advic...

A support worker was saying 'look at me' to my adult son a few weeks ago. I can only think the support worker picked it up from a school in Norwich where he also supports an autistic primary school child, so it's still current. I told him to stop btw.

Patience

>

> Just to add that we were told 14 years ago by the Lovaas clinic to not use "look at me"with my then 2 year old as the' look at me 'program was redundant ! so its always sad and frustrating to hear that its still used.

> Nina

>

>

> > Sara - I'd also just make the point that despite the fact that in the early days Hugo would never make appropriate eye contact / greet people appropriately we were specifically taught (by our ABA case manager / tutors) to never say "look at me" as it was aversive and counter-productive for him. We got round it in other ways and he eventually picked it up and now uses it totally appropriately. Just wanted to point that out as not all ABA is of the rigid 'Do this' type anymore...

> >

> >

> > Lorna

> > xxx

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Just goes to show that although say and I seem to have quite similar boys, I would love to have the academic side that Harry has and Jack has spontaneous appropriate play which I know Harry struggles with, ABA has done wonders for Harry and play therapy done wonders for Jack.

 

As to what works I think a lot of it is trial and error and what suits your child best.

 

Marina x

 

Not strictly " look at me " because generally does anyway but he will struggle to look at anything we may be working on, visual skills are on the floor tbh, he cannot scan consistently or well, does not follow a point or even look at his own pointed items!  is not a visual learner.

Going to see Ian Jordan in 6 weeks, can't wait.   My point though is we have never insisted he look at things so that by itself hasn't  improved anything, more often than not though needs and wants instruction, kind of don't want to know what that tells me.

Lorna I agree with you I think ABA/VB is probably pretty good for pre-schoolers as is a lot of therapies, early intervention and all that, my experience is it is largely play based, if a child learns through play then that would be ideal. 

Vicky

Re: Thinking about doing ABA for my son, advic...

 

A support worker was saying 'look at me' to my adult son a few weeks ago. I can only think the support worker picked it up from a school in Norwich where he also supports an autistic primary school child, so it's still current. I told him to stop btw.

Patience>> Just to add that we were told 14 years ago by the Lovaas clinic to not use " look at me " with my then 2 year old as the' look at me 'program was redundant ! so its always sad and frustrating to hear that its still used.

> Nina> > > > Sara - I'd also just make the point that despite the fact that in the early days Hugo would never make appropriate eye contact / greet people appropriately we were specifically taught (by our ABA case manager / tutors) to never say " look at me " as it was aversive and counter-productive for him. We got round it in other ways and he eventually picked it up and now uses it totally appropriately. Just wanted to point that out as not all ABA is of the rigid 'Do this' type anymore...

> > > > > > Lorna> > xxx> > > >>

[Guest guest]

Just goes to show that although say and I seem to have quite similar boys, I would love to have the academic side that Harry has and Jack has spontaneous appropriate play which I know Harry struggles with, ABA has done wonders for Harry and play therapy done wonders for Jack.

 

As to what works I think a lot of it is trial and error and what suits your child best.

 

Marina x

 

Not strictly " look at me " because generally does anyway but he will struggle to look at anything we may be working on, visual skills are on the floor tbh, he cannot scan consistently or well, does not follow a point or even look at his own pointed items!  is not a visual learner.

Going to see Ian Jordan in 6 weeks, can't wait.   My point though is we have never insisted he look at things so that by itself hasn't  improved anything, more often than not though needs and wants instruction, kind of don't want to know what that tells me.

Lorna I agree with you I think ABA/VB is probably pretty good for pre-schoolers as is a lot of therapies, early intervention and all that, my experience is it is largely play based, if a child learns through play then that would be ideal. 

Vicky

Re: Thinking about doing ABA for my son, advic...

 

A support worker was saying 'look at me' to my adult son a few weeks ago. I can only think the support worker picked it up from a school in Norwich where he also supports an autistic primary school child, so it's still current. I told him to stop btw.

Patience>> Just to add that we were told 14 years ago by the Lovaas clinic to not use " look at me " with my then 2 year old as the' look at me 'program was redundant ! so its always sad and frustrating to hear that its still used.

> Nina> > > > Sara - I'd also just make the point that despite the fact that in the early days Hugo would never make appropriate eye contact / greet people appropriately we were specifically taught (by our ABA case manager / tutors) to never say " look at me " as it was aversive and counter-productive for him. We got round it in other ways and he eventually picked it up and now uses it totally appropriately. Just wanted to point that out as not all ABA is of the rigid 'Do this' type anymore...

> > > > > > Lorna> > xxx> > > >>

[Guest guest]

Just goes to show that although say and I seem to have quite similar boys, I would love to have the academic side that Harry has and Jack has spontaneous appropriate play which I know Harry struggles with, ABA has done wonders for Harry and play therapy done wonders for Jack.

 

As to what works I think a lot of it is trial and error and what suits your child best.

 

Marina x

 

Not strictly " look at me " because generally does anyway but he will struggle to look at anything we may be working on, visual skills are on the floor tbh, he cannot scan consistently or well, does not follow a point or even look at his own pointed items!  is not a visual learner.

Going to see Ian Jordan in 6 weeks, can't wait.   My point though is we have never insisted he look at things so that by itself hasn't  improved anything, more often than not though needs and wants instruction, kind of don't want to know what that tells me.

Lorna I agree with you I think ABA/VB is probably pretty good for pre-schoolers as is a lot of therapies, early intervention and all that, my experience is it is largely play based, if a child learns through play then that would be ideal. 

Vicky

Re: Thinking about doing ABA for my son, advic...

 

A support worker was saying 'look at me' to my adult son a few weeks ago. I can only think the support worker picked it up from a school in Norwich where he also supports an autistic primary school child, so it's still current. I told him to stop btw.

Patience>> Just to add that we were told 14 years ago by the Lovaas clinic to not use " look at me " with my then 2 year old as the' look at me 'program was redundant ! so its always sad and frustrating to hear that its still used.

> Nina> > > > Sara - I'd also just make the point that despite the fact that in the early days Hugo would never make appropriate eye contact / greet people appropriately we were specifically taught (by our ABA case manager / tutors) to never say " look at me " as it was aversive and counter-productive for him. We got round it in other ways and he eventually picked it up and now uses it totally appropriately. Just wanted to point that out as not all ABA is of the rigid 'Do this' type anymore...

> > > > > > Lorna> > xxx> > > >>

[Guest guest]

THe skills taught through Intensive Interaction are those learnt at age

0 - 1 in a typical child so absolutely these are all pre-speech skills.

They are absolutely essential for further typical development and they

all increase quality of life and relationships for people with autism/

learning difficulties: 'play' as in playfulness - not as in playing with

toys necessarily more like enjoying other company, laughing for tickles,

bouncing on the knee (or the equivalent for an adult or big child.

Babies learn all this as well as " pre-conversation " and reading and

making facial expressions and much more before they can speak.

[Guest guest]

THe skills taught through Intensive Interaction are those learnt at age

0 - 1 in a typical child so absolutely these are all pre-speech skills.

They are absolutely essential for further typical development and they

all increase quality of life and relationships for people with autism/

learning difficulties: 'play' as in playfulness - not as in playing with

toys necessarily more like enjoying other company, laughing for tickles,

bouncing on the knee (or the equivalent for an adult or big child.

Babies learn all this as well as " pre-conversation " and reading and

making facial expressions and much more before they can speak.

[Guest guest]

THe skills taught through Intensive Interaction are those learnt at age

0 - 1 in a typical child so absolutely these are all pre-speech skills.

They are absolutely essential for further typical development and they

all increase quality of life and relationships for people with autism/

learning difficulties: 'play' as in playfulness - not as in playing with

toys necessarily more like enjoying other company, laughing for tickles,

bouncing on the knee (or the equivalent for an adult or big child.

Babies learn all this as well as " pre-conversation " and reading and

making facial expressions and much more before they can speak.

[Guest guest]

But when the child has learning difficulties and SLD's on top of autism , even

when you learn and get that play aspect the interaction only goes so far if

understanding and communication don't develop.

>

>

> THe skills taught through Intensive Interaction are those learnt at age

> 0 - 1 in a typical child so absolutely these are all pre-speech skills.

> They are absolutely essential for further typical development and they

> all increase quality of life and relationships for people with autism/

> learning difficulties: 'play' as in playfulness - not as in playing with

> toys necessarily more like enjoying other company, laughing for tickles,

> bouncing on the knee (or the equivalent for an adult or big child.

> Babies learn all this as well as " pre-conversation " and reading and

> making facial expressions and much more before they can speak.

>

[Guest guest]

But when the child has learning difficulties and SLD's on top of autism , even

when you learn and get that play aspect the interaction only goes so far if

understanding and communication don't develop.

>

>

> THe skills taught through Intensive Interaction are those learnt at age

> 0 - 1 in a typical child so absolutely these are all pre-speech skills.

> They are absolutely essential for further typical development and they

> all increase quality of life and relationships for people with autism/

> learning difficulties: 'play' as in playfulness - not as in playing with

> toys necessarily more like enjoying other company, laughing for tickles,

> bouncing on the knee (or the equivalent for an adult or big child.

> Babies learn all this as well as " pre-conversation " and reading and

> making facial expressions and much more before they can speak.

>

[Guest guest]

For me, I think it does depend on what your child is like, and what the most

pressing need is.

We haven't finished with ABA/VB, but I like what I have read about Intensive

Interaction, because J and me missed out on great chunks of sharing the people

that we are because he was in ABA/VB therapy.

I remember this one day where J when he was in one of his good spells and threw

his arms around me and said Mummy, I need a love. His therapist was there

waiting, and I felt really inhibited by her. I gave him a cuddle, then she took

over and said, come on lets do some work.

I don't know if this makes sense but this is what I personally missed too much

of, and I feel that Intensive Interaction, is as much for the parent as for the

child. its for both, and I think the fact it doesn't have a curriculum makes it

really liberating. What I saw is that its not necessarily for just those with

really severe problems but for those who have progressed as well.

I just don't want a book anymore, I want the therapy to be about me and him,

spontaneity, for us to be brought closer together.

What I think will happen is we will continue to combine lots of different

therapies around him, which works. So maybe that is something to consider if

you can run to it.

Good Luck

Eileen

>

> I would suggest if the child is higher functioning that RDI is probably

> more appropriate, it's so hard to know because some therapies suit some

> children better than others depending on their level of functioning and their

age.

> I know I wouldn't ever have gone down the ABA route for my older higher

> functioning son but really wish I had known about RDI when he was younger

> because this looks to be very relevent for him.

> ABA is the right thing imo for my youngest who is very severe and non

> verbal but at 14 the play side of things is not of any interest to him, so my

> experience is functioning and age are the issue when deciding on a therapy.

> Vicky

>

[Guest guest]

For me, I think it does depend on what your child is like, and what the most

pressing need is.

We haven't finished with ABA/VB, but I like what I have read about Intensive

Interaction, because J and me missed out on great chunks of sharing the people

that we are because he was in ABA/VB therapy.

I remember this one day where J when he was in one of his good spells and threw

his arms around me and said Mummy, I need a love. His therapist was there

waiting, and I felt really inhibited by her. I gave him a cuddle, then she took

over and said, come on lets do some work.

I don't know if this makes sense but this is what I personally missed too much

of, and I feel that Intensive Interaction, is as much for the parent as for the

child. its for both, and I think the fact it doesn't have a curriculum makes it

really liberating. What I saw is that its not necessarily for just those with

really severe problems but for those who have progressed as well.

I just don't want a book anymore, I want the therapy to be about me and him,

spontaneity, for us to be brought closer together.

What I think will happen is we will continue to combine lots of different

therapies around him, which works. So maybe that is something to consider if

you can run to it.

Good Luck

Eileen

>

> I would suggest if the child is higher functioning that RDI is probably

> more appropriate, it's so hard to know because some therapies suit some

> children better than others depending on their level of functioning and their

age.

> I know I wouldn't ever have gone down the ABA route for my older higher

> functioning son but really wish I had known about RDI when he was younger

> because this looks to be very relevent for him.

> ABA is the right thing imo for my youngest who is very severe and non

> verbal but at 14 the play side of things is not of any interest to him, so my

> experience is functioning and age are the issue when deciding on a therapy.

> Vicky

>