Re: Nature, Nurture, and SolutionTemplates

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/4/2008 10:16:14 A.M. Central America Standard ,

kshobman@... writes:

I don't know if I agree with that. There are lots of people who

started hitting young who can't get around on a major league fastball.

There are less, but there are still highly skilled athletes who came

to their sport late

****

Hi !

As Dr. Klawans points out in his book:

" There are no scientific studies of windows of opportunity in baseball

players, but the appropriate studies have been done in violinists. Becoming an

accomplished violinist requires motor skills that must be mastered by the

brain. Instead of learning to recognize the spin on a speeding baseball and

translate that into a muscular response, playing a violin consists of the brain

learning to give rapid and complex directions to the fingers of both hands in

response to visual or aural clues. Scientific investigation of the process

showed pretty much what professional musicians have always known. In order to

become a violin virtuoso, a musician has to start playing before the age of

thirteen. "

Klawans also notes a similarity with language development:

" Just like the learning of bird songs by birds and learning how to hit a

curveball, the acquisition of language requires environmental input. And no

matter what culture the human infant is raised in, no matter what language his

is exposed to, acquisition of language can only occur during a critical period

of development. A critical period is a specific time interval in which an

ability must be acquired if it is ever to be acquired at all. "

According to Klawans, evidence of such 'windows of opportunity " relative to

language can be found in humans who have not been exposed to language until

after this critical period has passed, such as Itard's " Victor " (Wild Boy of

Averyron) and the more contemporary " Genie, " extensively researched by

Curtiss.

Parallels to this " window of opportunity " can also be found in gymnastics as

well as music.

Ken Jakalski

Lisle HS

Lisle, IL USA

[Guest guest]

I don't know if I agree with that. There are lots of people who

started hitting young who can't get around on a major league fastball.

There are less, but there are still highly skilled athletes who came

to their sport late.

Hobman

Saskatoon, Canada

> > A good example of this is Jordan. He quit basketball to

> > play baseball. Despite all his efforts and the efforts of the

> > coaches he could not hit a curve ball to save his career. He was

> > forced to admit failure and returned to basketball.

> >

> > Ralph Giarnella MD

> > Southington Ct USA

>

> In Why Couldn’t Hit And Other Tales Of The Neurology Of

> Sports, the author Harold Klawans links a " window of opportunity " to

> the perfecting of sports skills. The below paragraph explains this

> very clearly.

>

> " Like every successful professional golfer, Hogan started out young…

> It seems that hitting a golf ball, like hitting a baseball, is an

> acquired skill that has a window of opportunity- a time frame during

> the development and maturation of the brain when it must be learned

> if it is ever to be truly perfected. "

>

> In the case of Jordan, he had apparently missed his window of

> opportunity when it came to hitting a baseball.

> _____________________________

> Gerald Lafon

> Director, Judo America San Diego

> Coach, Mira Mesa Weightlifting Club

> http://www.judoamerica.com

> 858 578-7748

>

>

[Guest guest]

Excellent point. Like most things complex motor skills are multi-

factorial and obviously genetics plays into the picture - as does

other individual and environmental factors.

I once asked a person I considered an excellent coach what makes a

great coach. His reply was telling.

You can take a very complex motor skill, analyze the individuals

performance and then explain what they should be attending to in a

simple way that they can grasp and apply.

eg. baseball - " Hips before hands. "

Hobman

Saskatoon, Canada

On 3-Dec-08, at 3:15 PM, , (Health Sciences) wrote:

> I think the argument of Nature vs. Nurture is never ending. For

> every example of nature there is a comparable story of nurture. I

> don't think this is an either or scenario with anything that has

> been mentioned but I think it is logical to subscribe to the notion

> that there is a compromise between nature and nurture. Not

> necessarily from a Motor Learning perspective but from a motor

> development perspective.

>

> Fascinating discussions and I have enjoyed reading the input of all

> regarding this issue.

>

> Steve , ABD, CSCS, USAW

> Lynchburg, VA

>

> =============================

>

> From: Supertraining [mailto:Supertraining

> ] On Behalf Of Jerry Telle

> Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 3:38 PM

> To: Supertraining

> Subject: Re: Nature, Nurture, and " SolutionTemplates "

>

>

>

> > All a natural is a a quick motor learner

>

> Telle -- Like the first time they did it after watching it a few

> times.

>

> > - possibly with genetic advantage for that particular sport they

> > are deemed 'natural' at.

>

> Telle -- " possibly? " A good friend of mine -- Joe Romig -- took 3rd in

> state as a just turned 15 yr old 175 lb sophomore. Was All State

> football and wrestling his Jr and Sr year, and broke the state

> record( I think) in the shot but preferred to lift weights instead of

> track. Consensus All American at Colorado Univ his Jr and Sr years and

> National Lineman of the year his Sr. year. He also military pressed

> 225 for reps at 14. Not to mention he was a scholar in

> Astrogeophysics ?-- that he had to work for -- the sports were a

> given. I don't know any physical thing that would have been out of his

> element.

>

> I had 2 14 year old athletes bench press 295 and 305 full pause,

> narrow grip, no arch at 144 and 147 lbs. after 4-6 months of training,

> 5 sets of 5 as per I Berger, Fred Hatfields mentor. And they were

> good, albeit not great, at whatever they did.I know adults who have

> trained forever who cant strict bench 300 lbs. How many caucasians

> have broken the 100-200 meter record in the last 20 years? Or play in

> the secondary or could excel at 3 prof sports?

>

> I can't imagine anyone thinking there are not super naturals. Bill

> Kazmier once told me he started powerlifting at 225 lbs and got up to

> 275 w/out drugs !!! and watching him during the multi task Strong

> Man ????

>

> > I remember the 'Superstars' competitions from the 70's and one thing

> > they showed was that even gifted athletes out of their element --

>

> Telle -- how far out?

>

> > -- of expertise look clumsy when trying to perform a complex novel

> > task.

>

> Telle -- that they had never seen before? Who were they compared

> against? Others that had never seen/practiced the novel task before??

>

> ===============================

>

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