Re: Adapting

[Guest guest]

Sounds like your husband's life is too comfortable. No one AS or otherwise has a need to adapt if their life is just how they want it. It is the problems and discomforts in life that make us change/adapt. Shoot, even animals adapt for those reasons. My guess is your adaptation is making his life comfortable. He has come to a place where he thinks that your adaptation is a normal part of his existance.

My NT husband did this. When I stopped adapting, suddenly his life got uncomfortable. It took a lot of strength, a lot of remaining calm & reasonable to work it out though. It took a lot of thinking about what is ok with me and what is not. Figuring out what things about him are just annoying and what things about him would be unacceptable to anyone. Figuring out reasonable (for both of us) solutions that would work and standing by them. Until recent times (last year) I did all the work in the relationship. In the first 8-9 yrs I did all the adapting, he thought everything was fine. When I started learning about what is 'normal' and what isn't I realized I wasn't the only one who needed to adapt. So I quit many of my adaptations. Suddenly his life got uncomfortable. For about 2-3 years we went around and around with him having the sulks and trying to get me to go back to adapting for him. For about the last year he has been making steady progress forward and he's pulling his own weight most of the time now. Anyway......

Jennie

>>Ann said: I really don't see my AS husband trying to adapt at all. He thinks he is just fine and if I don't like it, I can adapt. That is what I have done for 23 years. I don't like it but that is where we are. He just doesn't seem to care if I am unhappy. He thinks if I am it is my fault (unless I am sick) and has nothing to do with him. If I try to get him to talk to me about having a better relationship, he just sees it as me being critical of him - so what is the use?<<

[Guest guest]

Hi Ann, You raise two good and different points: one is his lack of awareness of his own behavior and the other is his indifference to your happiness. I think the first is likely the result of AS, but not the second. My husband does the first one also, he just doesn't see where he has offended someone or embarrassed his family. Like you, I hate pointing it out because I dislike the negative role. On the other hand, my husband does care very much that I'm happy and that the children are happy; he just doesn't believe that sometimes when we're not, it has anything to do with him. Thus, no adapting going on around here !Yesterday, my boys had a group of friends over to play their new game that they got for xmas, Rockband. It's a blast, and each player plays a different instrument. Everyone was laughing, etc., trying to advance to a higher level, and my husband just went in and unplugged it because he wanted to watch

a football game. He didn't say anything to them first. The boys just sat there stunned. He really is unaware that his behavior was viewed as rude. I tried to speak to him about it, but he thought I was being critical and seeing problems that didn't exist. He couldn't/didn't read the faces of these 12-year-old boys, an AS-related issue, and so he didn't realize that they were stunned and disappointed or that his son was very embarrassed. Similar incidents happen all of the time. Talking to my son about it later, we decided that next time, he'll ask his dad to talk to him for a moment out of the room, and explain how turning off the game made him feel. My husband needs to hear the message from people other than me. Okay, I'm rambling now, so I'll stop.Happy new year to you all,DanekaAnn Byers wrote: I really don't see my AS husband trying to adapt at all. He thinks he is just fine and if I don't like it, I can adapt. That is what I have done for 23 years. I don't like it but that is where we are. He just doesn't seem to care if I am unhappy. He thinks if I am it is my fault (unless I am sick) and has nothing to do with him. If I try to get him to talk to me about having a better relationship, he just sees it as me being critical of him - so what is the use? As to the lady who wrote in to , I

have just a few comments. First of all I believe her opinions are off. God actually made woman so that man wouldn't have to be alone. (If you believe the Bible.) said it was better not to marry, but said it was better to marry than to burn. (I don't know if that means with passion or some eternal punishment.) Anyway, I know many people that are married who serve God through their family. They are very giving and supportive of others and are not selfish just because they are married and have children. was married as were many of the apostles. As for the other opinions about banks running the world, etc., I guess I don't understand economics enough to comment on that, but it seems unreasonable to me that they are the cause of us NTs expecting others to have certain social behaviors. I for one don't pay a whole lot of attention to what TV says but go more on how I was brought up by my

parents, who didn't even own a tv until us kids were way up in school. So their teaching didn't come from there or politics. They were too busy working to make a living to be concerned about that. Most of their teaching to us came from either family tradition or the Bible. It seems that in trying to justify lack of social cues, this person has created some sort of evil plot by the government to ruin us all. It actually sounds paranoid to me, for what it is worth. Ann Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

[Guest guest]

Adaptive behaviour has to have a stimulus

and I often think that maladaptive behaviour can easily be the result unless

we are careful. I have often thought that one of the reasons why

AS people stay loyal to the marriage is because they do not want things

to change. Note that I said " loyal to the marriage " rather

than loyal to the partner, which may not be a distinction that has been

explored on this list, but correct me if I am wrong. The problem

is I think, that a relationship changes because it grows and as an AS person

I have not grown as my wife has. So the dynamic changed and I believe

that AS partners fight that change and want their partners to not change

also. But that is denying their right to experience life in their

own way.

My wife has recently told me how demoralizing

it has been trying to accommodate what I want and trying to cope with her

own needs. She has been truly heroic in battling with this over the

last 30 years and it makes me feel very inadequate about the role I played.

She has literally been forced to adopt the lifestyle of an AS person.

I have told her and my daughters how

proud I am of them but being concerned for them and needing to recognise

the lack of true feeling that I struggle to find within myself towards

them is where the lie lays. I have had to face the fact that I have

been faking it for years, and this was what has caused such pain for my

family. I will be working on this with the counsellor and the psychologist

for a while as this needs to be a focus for me.

I need to face the fact that I have

never really felt true love except from an egocentric perspective. This

is due to the aspergers, but the challenge my wife has given me is to not

accept that this is all it can be and to put more effort into trying. I

have come to realise how much my partner helped me to negotiate life whether

family or social and I am the richer for it. Unfortunately, she is

the victim of my problem which is exactly as my wife expresses it. If

I have the problem, why am I punishing her and the family?

Adapting is something that AS and NT

partners in a marriage need help with. Incidentally, my wife knows

of another local couple where the AS husband has been diagnosed in the

last 12 months same as me. The difference is that he has accepted

the diagnosis and his family (including his parents) are helping the wife

with managing the whole thing. Very different to my own situation

where my family have not accepted it and have no interest in helping let

alone talking to my wife and hearing her side of it.

Greg

dx AS at 53

" Newland "

Sent by: aspires-relationships

03/01/2008 05:27 AM

Please respond to

aspires-relationships

To

<aspires-relationships >

cc

Subject

Adapting

Hi

I have been thinking about this as

Meyer (AS) sent me a series of emails that were addressed to him and me

(old email address and I never got them). It was from a man in Canada

who never mentioned being dx. with an ASD. His response to the writer

was at the end. This man is clearly paranoid and writing advocates

everywhere and posting his words on blogs as he always included a web link.

's response was to seek mental health services. I than

shared a post that I shared on ASPIRES of a woman dx. with AS. My

writer starts off good and makes some good points and than she starts to

ramble and rant. was saying, look at the similarities in the

writings although totally different facets of the diamond. Impaired

theory of mind, organizational issues, etc., etc., etc.. Now keep

in mind we were just discussing the writings of these two people and how

we saw them. This is not a reflection on anyone else with AS nor

does it mean or take on it was correct.

When I read the writings of the man in

Canada I though of a cousin of mine and 2 words popped in to my head, " paranoid

sychophrenic " often misdiagnosed and many times AS for some folks

with a dash of other issues. Here is a man writing anyone and everyone

with his thoughts they he believes are true. People are trying to

kill him. He has written the paper naming the company and contacts,

dates and times and HOW they were trying to do it. He wants justice.

Lucky he is a man of little words unlike my writer who goes on and

on. was talking about how he and others with AS write and can

come across to those without AS and he made a good point, AS is considered

by some a different way of thinking, but many times at the moment it comes

across as delusional thinking and one has to be careful about being drawn

into their web. As brilliant as some can be, some thoughts are out

of sync with reality and they want everyone to think like they do and that

just does not happen in most cases. Than there is the " knee

jerk response " that we saw in some writers like and

still deals with this. Immediately from the brain to the email with no

filters.

My cousin is a good example. Home

bound since High School with medical problems. I sent my Uncle some

info on AS years ago and he thanked me but dismissed it. Doug emailed

me a couple of years ago and I sent a copy to Lorelie and said, what do

U think as she has had experience in the mental health field. Text

book paranoid sychophrenic. But is it? He is very much like

this man from Canada. Everyone is out to get him. The police

and FBI have hidden cameras all over the house including the toilet. They

want to put him away. The neighbors are plotting against hm. My

Uncle passed away last year. He was a Corporate Attorney and Rabbi.

Dough has 2 brothers who tell everyone, just ignore him. My

mom was saying the family was concerned since my Uncles passing, my Aunt

is starting to buy in to his delusions. I am sure like this writer

Doug is all over the internet everywhere he can spreading his delusions

asking for justice. Most folks probably just ignore him. I

am sure over the years Doug probably has had every mental health label

possible except the correct one and medication. My mom was saying

he now looks like in his last years. The hair and nails,

etc.

How far to you go to adapt is the question?

If someone with AS is planted on the spectrum not open to change

or anything that is outside how they view life, how far do you go? Maybe

it depends on YOU. We are all different. YOU have to be getting

something out of the relationship and the bottom line with me when I raised

my kids was, it did not matter how far I would go to adapt but how far

society will go. If they can not adapt that might mean no relationships

or employment. Sinatra was one of the few men that could say,

" it is my way or the highway, " and get away with it due

to his money and power. No two AS or NS folks are alike and every

relationships has different components as we are all different. Some

combinations seem to work better and others are toxic and end just like

employment when you don't fit the picture that the administration or powers

to be are looking for or feel it is a good fit.

What really is adapting? Anyone?

Comments? Is it different for all of us? Is it a personal

thing? When does one cross over in to what some consider delusional

thinking? Many are praised for thinking out of the box. When

does out of the box cross over in to delusional thoughts? When does

NS cross over to AS? Anyone?

Just thinking out loud.

Happy New Year!

[Guest guest]

Greg Greer wrote:

>

>

> Adaptive behaviour has to have a stimulus and I often think that

> maladaptive behaviour can easily be the result unless we are careful. I

> have often thought that one of the reasons why AS people stay loyal to

> the marriage is because they do not want things to change. Note that I

> said " loyal to the marriage " rather than loyal to the partner, which may

> not be a distinction that has been explored on this list, but correct me

> if I am wrong. The problem is I think, that a relationship changes

> because it grows and as an AS person I have not grown as my wife has.

> So the dynamic changed and I believe that AS partners fight that change

> and want their partners to not change also. But that is denying their

> right to experience life in their own way.

>

> My wife has recently told me how demoralizing it has been trying to

> accommodate what I want and trying to cope with her own needs. She has

> been truly heroic in battling with this over the last 30 years and it

> makes me feel very inadequate about the role I played. She has

> literally been forced to adopt the lifestyle of an AS person.

>

> I have told her and my daughters how proud I am of them but being

> concerned for them and needing to recognise the lack of true feeling

> that I struggle to find within myself towards them is where the lie

> lays. I have had to face the fact that I have been faking it for years,

> and this was what has caused such pain for my family. I will be working

> on this with the counsellor and the psychologist for a while as this

> needs to be a focus for me.

>

> I need to face the fact that I have never really felt true love except

> from an egocentric perspective. This is due to the aspergers, but the

> challenge my wife has given me is to not accept that this is all it can

> be and to put more effort into trying. I have come to realise how much

> my partner helped me to negotiate life whether family or social and I am

> the richer for it. Unfortunately, she is the victim of my problem which

> is exactly as my wife expresses it. If I have the problem, why am I

> punishing her and the family?

>

> Adapting is something that AS and NT partners in a marriage need help

> with. Incidentally, my wife knows of another local couple where the AS

> husband has been diagnosed in the last 12 months same as me. The

> difference is that he has accepted the diagnosis and his family

> (including his parents) are helping the wife with managing the whole

> thing. Very different to my own situation where my family have not

> accepted it and have no interest in helping let alone talking to my wife

> and hearing her side of it.

>

> Greg

>

> dx AS at 53

Superb exposition Greg. SUPERB! I wish you loads of luck.

- Bill, 75, AS

> * " Newland " * wrote:

> 03/01/2008 05:27 AM

> To <aspires-relationships >

> Subject Adapting

>

> Hi

>

> I have been thinking about this as Meyer (AS) sent me a series of

> emails that were addressed to him and me (old email address and I never

> got them).

[ snip ]

> /What really is adapting?/ Anyone? Comments? Is it different for all

> of us? Is it a personal thing? When does one cross over in to what

> some consider delusional thinking? Many are praised for thinking out of

> the box. When does out of the box cross over in to delusional thoughts?

> When does NS cross over to AS? Anyone?

>

> Just thinking out loud.

>

> Happy New Year!

>

>

- Bill, 75, AS

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

, are you equating nutters with AS because that can be read either way?

I for example pour vitriol on many who are behaving atrociously but

there is no aimed at me personally because it isn't. What they do wrong

is either factually so or in need of explanation. If the situation is

rational, talk about it, yet that is often denied so the truth is

unclear. There are shades of no blinkers in that, pun intended.

Scitz fantasy? I have met it. Nothing like AS.

It is often misdiagnosed to the extent that some pro's deny it exists.

I've had long discussions about that one. View seems to be it is too

vague and is something else but is perhaps back in fashion.

Acting out fantasies is not acceptable in the real world, especially

when it impacts others.

Newland wrote:

> Hi

>

> I have been thinking about this as Meyer (AS) sent me a series of emails

that were addressed to him and me (old email address and I never got them). It

was from a man in Canada who never mentioned being dx. with an ASD. His

response to the writer was at the end. This man is clearly paranoid and writing

advocates everywhere and posting his words on blogs as he always included a web

link. 's response was to seek mental health services. I than shared a

post that I shared on ASPIRES of a woman dx. with AS. My writer starts off good

and makes some good points and than she starts to ramble and rant. was

saying, look at the similarities in the writings although totally different

facets of the diamond. Impaired theory of mind, organizational issues, etc.,

etc., etc.. Now keep in mind we were just discussing the writings of these two

people and how we saw them. This is not a reflection on anyone else with AS nor

does it mean or take on it was correct.

>

> When I read the writings of the man in Canada I though of a cousin of mine and

2 words popped in to my head, " paranoid sychophrenic " often misdiagnosed and

many times AS for some folks with a dash of other issues. Here is a man writing

anyone and everyone with his thoughts they he believes are true. People are

trying to kill him. He has written the paper naming the company and contacts,

dates and times and HOW they were trying to do it. He wants justice. Lucky he

is a man of little words unlike my writer who goes on and on. was talking

about how he and others with AS write and can come across to those without AS

and he made a good point, AS is considered by some a different way of thinking,

but many times at the moment it comes across as delusional thinking and one has

to be careful about being drawn into their web. As brilliant as some can be,

some thoughts are out of sync with reality and they want everyone to think like

they do and that just does not happen

in most cases. Than there is the " knee jerk response " that we saw in some

writers like and still deals with this. Immediately from the brain

to the email with no filters.

>

> My cousin is a good example. Home bound since High School with medical

problems. I sent my Uncle some info on AS years ago and he thanked me but

dismissed it. Doug emailed me a couple of years ago and I sent a copy to

Lorelie and said, what do U think as she has had experience in the mental health

field. Text book paranoid sychophrenic. But is it? He is very much like this

man from Canada. Everyone is out to get him. The police and FBI have hidden

cameras all over the house including the toilet. They want to put him away.

The neighbors are plotting against hm. My Uncle passed away last year. He was

a Corporate Attorney and Rabbi. Dough has 2 brothers who tell everyone, just

ignore him. My mom was saying the family was concerned since my Uncles passing,

my Aunt is starting to buy in to his delusions. I am sure like this writer Doug

is all over the internet everywhere he can spreading his delusions asking for

justice. Most folks probably just ignore him. I a

m sure over the years Doug probably has had every mental health label possible

except the correct one and medication. My mom was saying he now looks like

in his last years. The hair and nails, etc.

>

> How far to you go to adapt is the question? If someone with AS is planted on

the spectrum not open to change or anything that is outside how they view life,

how far do you go? Maybe it depends on YOU. We are all different. YOU have to

be getting something out of the relationship and the bottom line with me when I

raised my kids was, it did not matter how far I would go to adapt but how far

society will go. If they can not adapt that might mean no relationships or

employment. Sinatra was one of the few men that could say, " it is my way

or the highway, " and get away with it due to his money and power. No two AS or

NS folks are alike and every relationships has different components as we are

all different. Some combinations seem to work better and others are toxic and

end just like employment when you don't fit the picture that the administration

or powers to be are looking for or feel it is a good fit.

>

> What really is adapting? Anyone? Comments? Is it different for all of us?

Is it a personal thing? When does one cross over in to what some consider

delusional thinking? Many are praised for thinking out of the box. When does

out of the box cross over in to delusional thoughts? When does NS cross over to

AS? Anyone?

>

> Just thinking out loud.

>

> Happy New Year!

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Bill.

One good thing about this list is

the support that exists from NT and AS alike. Thanks to you for making

this list possible.

Greg

dx AS at 53

WD Loughman

Sent by: aspires-relationships

03/01/2008 12:33 PM

Please respond to

aspires-relationships

To

aspires-relationships

cc

Subject

Re: Adapting

Superb exposition Greg. SUPERB! I wish you loads of luck.

- Bill, 75, AS

> * " Newland " *

wrote:

> 03/01/2008 05:27 AM

> To <aspires-relationships >

> Subject Adapting

>

> Hi

>

> I have been thinking about this as Meyer (AS) sent me a series

of

> emails that were addressed to him and me (old email address and I

never

> got them).

[ snip ]

> /What really is adapting?/ Anyone? Comments? Is it different for all

> of us? Is it a personal thing? When does one cross over in to what

> some consider delusional thinking? Many are praised for thinking out

of

> the box. When does out of the box cross over in to delusional thoughts?

> When does NS cross over to AS? Anyone?

>

> Just thinking out loud.

>

> Happy New Year!

>

>

- Bill, 75, AS

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

what is a nutter ?  I hate to guess ... jkz, are you equating nutters with AS because that can be read either way? No.  Some folks regardless of labels also have mental health issues.  It is about a particular person and not a reflection of others in the community with the same label.  Autism has a wild card, meaning no two are alike so any behavior of anyone in the autism community should not reflect on others.  Unfortunately that is not always true.  Some folks like to label folks with one picture and one side of the diamond.  With Autism no two are alike.  It is hard to get a good picture of what it really is as the highest and lowest functioning are so completely different to someone who has no idea what it is and baffled that many on both ends of the spectrum consider themselves the same.  How can one with no knowledge of autism understand that someone with mental retardation living in a residential facility is the same as someone with a Ph.D. behind their name living among us and very successful asking for the same supports?  How do you equate need and level of support????  Am I the only one with this question?  It has been an issue that has concerned the public and families.  Is it just me? Just me.