Re: [aspires-relationships on holidays and parenting

[Guest guest]

My husband and daughter both have a hard time with holidays as well. But their problem seems to be they have a certain expectation of how it should go or turn out. Yet they never share this idea or plan with me so I can help it turn out. I do not even think they are aware they do it or have it in their head till everything goes wrong in their minds and they are furious and making everyone around them sad. This x-mas was the worst yet. However My daughter was able to have her gifts wrapped and did well with it. Not too over whelmed or anything. She did have to be reminded not to keep track of how many gifts everyone was getting that sort of thing. But mothersday any holiday just has lost it's luster for

me. He wants to celebrate yet it usually turns out very badly. I wish I could figure out a way to help them especially my husband with this matter. Any suggestions? Also to the autistic or asperger people on the list. I was wondering if any of you had suggestions on how I can help my daughter appreciate her "ways" at the same time as teach her appropriate social behavior and sense of family team. Which she seems to be getting slowly. I just want to be sure I am not doing in a way as putting her ways down. Does that make sense? I try to pick my battles with her and give her space to express herself. She is very "creative" of sorts. She loves to tie things and collects broken pieces of paper and sharp pieces of plastic or glass. So as long as it is not a safety issue we will do either a craft with above or keep in a special spot away from younger kids for a agreed amount of time then get rid of it. She loves to tie

things in our trees and last week decorated all our buses and trees in newspaper in the front yard. Oh what the neighbors must think and the people driving down the road. lol But I was very proud of how well she took it when told she had to take it all down before she came in since it could blow in the neighbors yards and they could call the county. Well I better run thanks for any advice you all might have to offer. Kian Re: Reminder from as-if

Gosh Tim. This is where NTs and ASs (oops, a freudian slip....lol) ,

have a major difference. Family is everything to me. I strongly

dislike when a family member just shows up for funerals. To me, why

bother? I think on-going family contacts and rituals enrich my

life. My husband hates Christmas and other holidays. To the extent

that he doesn't want a wreath on the door or hear Christmas music.

Christmas was a treasured part of my life. I could almost leave him

because of Christmas alone.....lol. Christmas is family time,

sharing, loving and keeping traditions. He likes the gifts he gets

though...... .grin. Verleen

> > Tim, just a quick note to add some more descriptive things about

> > involving socializing. He has a married sister, niece and

> > nephew, cousins, aunts and uncles living nearby. He hasn't talked to

> > them in decades. I have not met them. He doesn't even see his own

> > family, except for his father who passed away a number of years ago.

>

> I don't.

>

> I've discussed this and it was pointed out that there is a difference

> between people who are minutes away and hours.

>

> When I was young I would visit occasionally but that fell away.

There is

> nothing to discuss, nothing in common but apart from my brother there

> isn't a problem as such. (my brother doesn't want contact for reasons

> which are unclear)

>

> Visiting relatives seems to be all about duty, not a wish to do so.

>

> Having no sense of family seems to be common in autism. Strangers are

> just as important. To be honest the family thing puzzles me.

>

> > If he is in any group, such as when he takes me to a club meeting

> > where most of the membership is men, he talks to no one and keeps

> > entirely to himself. He usually leaves the area and takes a walk

> > somewhere.

>

> Grin. If my wife wanted to go the the cinema that is what I would want

> to do. I don't mind taking her at all.

>

> Maybe it's as much about tolerating things without showing what is

> really going on, not so easy.

>

> So you go to visit a relative.

> To do what? Births, marriages, deaths, funerals.

>

> Seems to me there is nonsense talk. I guess a lot of non verbal. It

> holds no interest.

>

> Don't you think, in regards to my husband, that the term

> > 'antisocial' just might fit? Verleen

>

> Must fit me too.

> The situation if you see people daily is I suspect different, more

> likely to he shared things.

>

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Guest guest]

My husband also dislike the holidays. Any of them...The week before Christmas he is miserable. He doesn't like changing things in the house like moving furniture to put the tree up. He doesn't like going on vacation even though we know now when we are going and where we are staying the whole week before we leave he is so out of sorts I have always thought it was about spending the money but now I think its about change. Once we are there he has a great time and he knows that before we go but I guess the thought of his routine being different is a streeor for him. I've have tried to be patient when I see he struggles with things so instead of saying why would you do that or what were you thinking, I have started to say things like what is your thinking behind this decision. Example he made himself dinner last night even though he new I ordered Pizza. Today for lunch he made his own lunch and didn't feed the kids or ask me if I wanted anything he just took

care of himself. Instead of starting a arguement because this behavior in the past has really pissed me off actually. Today I said to him "What is train of thought what is the thinking behind your actions for not feeding the kids or asking anyone else if they were hungry?" I've tried to feed the kids in the past and it seems like we are not on the same page for some reason. Like dinner last night I didn't know why we couldn' t have leftovers than I explained there wasn't enough for everyone and he said "Oh". He wasn't thinking of having enough food for everyone just about having enough for him Its how his brain works.... I UNDERSTAND THAT NOW!!!!! I have felt that I needed to change myself but over the last 2 weeks or so I feel as if I just need to understand what he is feeling and react differently and not change me.....Change how I respond to him and his actions... kian vencill

wrote: My husband and daughter both have a hard time with holidays as well. But their problem seems to be they have a certain expectation of how it should go or turn out. Yet they never share this idea or plan with me so I can help it turn out. I do not even think they are aware they do it or have it in their head till everything goes wrong in their minds and they are

furious and making everyone around them sad. This x-mas was the worst yet. However My daughter was able to have her gifts wrapped and did well with it. Not too over whelmed or anything. She did have to be reminded not to keep track of how many gifts everyone was getting that sort of thing. But mothersday any holiday just has lost it's luster for me. He wants to celebrate yet it usually turns out very badly. I wish I could figure out a way to help them especially my husband with this matter. Any suggestions? Also to the autistic or asperger people on the list. I was wondering if any of you had suggestions on how I can help my daughter appreciate her "ways" at the same time as teach her appropriate social behavior and sense of family team. Which she seems to be getting slowly. I just want to be sure I am not doing in a way as putting her ways down. Does that make sense? I try to pick my battles with her and give her space to express

herself. She is very "creative" of sorts. She loves to tie things and collects broken pieces of paper and sharp pieces of plastic or glass. So as long as it is not a safety issue we will do either a craft with above or keep in a special spot away from younger kids for a agreed amount of time then get rid of it. She loves to tie things in our trees and last week decorated all our buses and trees in newspaper in the front yard. Oh what the neighbors must think and the people driving down the road. lol But I was very proud of how well she took it when told she had to take it all down before she came in since it could blow in the neighbors yards and they could call the county. Well I better run thanks for any advice you all might have to offer. Kian Re: Reminder from as-if Gosh Tim. This is where NTs and ASs (oops, a freudian slip....lol) ,have a major difference. Family is everything to me. I stronglydislike when a family member just shows up for funerals. To me, whybother? I think on-going family contacts and rituals enrich mylife. My husband hates Christmas and other holidays. To the extentthat he doesn't want a wreath on the door or hear Christmas music. Christmas was a treasured part of my life. I could almost leave himbecause of Christmas alone.....lol. Christmas is family time,sharing, loving and keeping traditions. He likes the gifts he getsthough...... .grin. Verleen> > Tim, just a quick note to add some more descriptive things about> > involving socializing. He has a married sister, niece and> > nephew, cousins, aunts and uncles living nearby. He hasn't talked to> > them in decades. I have not met them. He doesn't even see his own> > family, except for his father who passed away a number of years ago. > > I don't.> > I've discussed this and it was pointed out that there is a difference > between people who are minutes away and hours.> > When I was young I would visit occasionally but that fell away.There is > nothing to discuss, nothing in common but apart from my brother there > isn't a problem as such. (my brother doesn't want contact for reasons

> which are unclear)> > Visiting relatives seems to be all about duty, not a wish to do so.> > Having no sense of family seems to be common in autism. Strangers are > just as important. To be honest the family thing puzzles me.> > > If he is in any group, such as when he takes me to a club meeting> > where most of the membership is men, he talks to no one and keeps> > entirely to himself. He usually leaves the area and takes a walk> > somewhere.> > Grin. If my wife wanted to go the the cinema that is what I would want > to do. I don't mind taking her at all.> > Maybe it's as much about tolerating things without showing what is > really going on, not so easy.> > So you go to visit a relative.> To do what? Births, marriages, deaths, funerals.> > Seems to me there is nonsense talk. I guess a lot of non verbal. It

> holds no interest.> > Don't you think, in regards to my husband, that the term> > 'antisocial' just might fit? Verleen> > Must fit me too.> The situation if you see people daily is I suspect different, more > likely to he shared things.> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Guest guest]

, I have to disagree with you about your need to change how

you respond to your husband and his actions. Some actions are not

acceptable. Feeding himself and not the kids is not acceptable, in

my opinion. What if something happened to you? Could you depend on

him to adequately take care of your children? He needs to have some

responsibility for his actions and behaviors too. Having a strong

sense of self preservation at the expense of others is not acceptable.

You shouldn't be the only one bending over backwards to accommodate him.

It is interesting that your and Kian's husbands have problems with

Christmas and holidays. When I ask mine why he hates Christmas, he

cannot give me an answer. I have given up things from the beginning,

changed my life, year after year. Its time for my AS husband to

learn to accept what I need. Verleen

>

> My husband also dislike the holidays. Any of them...The week before

Christmas he is miserable. He doesn't like changing things in the

house like moving furniture to put the tree up. He doesn't like going

on vacation even though we know now when we are going and where we are

staying the whole week before we leave he is so out of sorts I have

always thought it was about spending the money but now I think its

about change. Once we are there he has a great time and he knows that

before we go but I guess the thought of his routine being different is

a streeor for him. I've have tried to be patient when I see he

struggles with things so instead of saying why would you do that or

what were you thinking, I have started to say things like what is your

thinking behind this decision. Example he made himself dinner last

night even though he new I ordered Pizza. Today for lunch he made his

own lunch and didn't feed the kids or ask me if I wanted anything he

just took care of himself.

> Instead of starting a arguement because this behavior in the past

has really pissed me off actually. Today I said to him " What is train

of thought what is the thinking behind your actions for not feeding

the kids or asking anyone else if they were hungry? " I've tried to

feed the kids in the past and it seems like we are not on the same

page for some reason. Like dinner last night I didn't know why we

couldn' t have leftovers than I explained there wasn't enough for

everyone and he said " Oh " . He wasn't thinking of having enough food

for everyone just about having enough for him Its how his brain

works.... I UNDERSTAND THAT NOW!!!!! I have felt that I needed to

change myself but over the last 2 weeks or so I feel as if I just need

to understand what he is feeling and react differently and not change

me.....Change how I respond to him and his actions...

>

>

[Guest guest]

Verleen, thanks for your insight. In the past my response to my husbands actions was to basically pick a fight because I just couldn't figure out what his prob;em was. My exact words what be "What is wrong with you?" Where did you learn that? it is ok to act like that? etc......In my defense I am very verball when something is bothering me or I don't care for a situation. Once I speak my mind I can move on. I feel better once things are off mychest. So when now I have a problem with a behavior I try not to get upset or raise my voice and waslk Curt through what his thought process is. You are right I shouldn't be satified with not truly addressing the problem. I will continue to work on this and appreciate another perspective. It helps so much. As far as the holiday thing it took years for me to figure out how to extract the information from my husband why he dislikes holidays. I accepted his answer and try not to take it personally but this

year he said its because he doesn't like the change, moving furniture, taking stuff down putting stuff up....But I just acknowledge what he's saying and continue to decorate and maybe next year it will be alittle easier because I understand a little more....I agree that the AS husbands should accept what we need but my feeling is that my husband is making changes as small as they maybe but they are still changes and eventually we will be able to work on the goal of recognizing what I need. you definitely have made me think deep about a few things. Would my husband be able to care for my kids if anything were to happen to me? I'm not sure really. If I wrote a specific list for him to follow yes he would. He is a good Dad in the aspect he enjoys his time with the kids. He entertains them he has patience when disciplining them and he truly tries to talk them throught their frustrations because he knows that he struggles.But as far as caring for them on a daily basis

I don't know....IVerleen wrote: , I have to disagree with you about your need to change howyou respond to your husband and his actions. Some actions are notacceptable. Feeding himself and not the kids is not acceptable, inmy opinion. What if something happened to you? Could you depend onhim to adequately take care of your children? He needs to have someresponsibility for his actions and behaviors too. Having a strongsense of self preservation at the expense of others is not acceptable.You

shouldn't be the only one bending over backwards to accommodate him.It is interesting that your and Kian's husbands have problems withChristmas and holidays. When I ask mine why he hates Christmas, hecannot give me an answer. I have given up things from the beginning,changed my life, year after year. Its time for my AS husband tolearn to accept what I need. Verleen >> My husband also dislike the holidays. Any of them...The week beforeChristmas he is miserable. He doesn't like changing things in thehouse like moving furniture to put the tree up. He doesn't like goingon vacation even though we know now when we are going and where we arestaying the whole week before we leave he is so out of sorts I havealways thought it was about spending the

money but now I think itsabout change. Once we are there he has a great time and he knows thatbefore we go but I guess the thought of his routine being different isa streeor for him. I've have tried to be patient when I see hestruggles with things so instead of saying why would you do that orwhat were you thinking, I have started to say things like what is yourthinking behind this decision. Example he made himself dinner lastnight even though he new I ordered Pizza. Today for lunch he made hisown lunch and didn't feed the kids or ask me if I wanted anything hejust took care of himself.> Instead of starting a arguement because this behavior in the pasthas really pissed me off actually. Today I said to him "What is trainof thought what is the thinking behind your actions for not feedingthe kids or asking anyone else if they were hungry?" I've tried tofeed the kids in the past and it seems like we are not on the

samepage for some reason. Like dinner last night I didn't know why wecouldn' t have leftovers than I explained there wasn't enough foreveryone and he said "Oh". He wasn't thinking of having enough foodfor everyone just about having enough for him Its how his brainworks.... I UNDERSTAND THAT NOW!!!!! I have felt that I needed tochange myself but over the last 2 weeks or so I feel as if I just needto understand what he is feeling and react differently and not changeme.....Change how I respond to him and his actions...> >

[Guest guest]

stephanie muska wrote:

>

So when now I have a problem

> with a behavior I try not to get upset or raise my voice and waslk Curt

> through what his thought process is. You are right I shouldn't be

> satified with not truly addressing the problem.

Interesting. If I ask Rex what his through process is he will tell me he

doesn't know. I used to get quite angry with that response. But now I

know that he truly doesn't, because it didn't involve a thought process.

Most of us NTs have a reason for why we do the things we do. I can't

speak for the other AS spouses here but I know that Rex simply acts in

the moment. If he is hungry, he eats. He doesn't think, " I'm hungry and

I want food, and I don't want to be bothered with asking/caring for

Shoshana too. " My solution? Tell him what the problem is, that I need

to eat also and food preparation is beyond me, and that he needs to do

whatever he has to do to remind himself that we both need to eat. He

solved it, because he wanted to, by putting us on a mealtime schedule.

I will continue to work

> on this and appreciate another perspective. It helps so much. As far as

> the holiday thing it took years for me to figure out how to extract the

> information from my husband why he dislikes holidays.

Again, at least for me, a futile action. Extracting information is like

pulling teeth. Actually, he doesn't see the reason for verbalizing his

discomfort.

I agree that the AS husbands should accept

> what we need but my feeling is that my husband is making changes as

> small as they maybe but they are still changes and eventually we will be

> able to work on the goal of recognizing what I need.

Why should he learn to recognize what you need? It is your

responsibility to tell him what you need, and it is his responsibility

to listen and ACT. I know my AS husband rarely is able to recognize what

I or anyone else around him need. I have accepted (finally) my

responsibility to be as clear and immediate as I can in voicing my

needs. And as you know from my earlier post, I am no longer cutting him

any slack. He is perfectly capable of responding to my clear

unambivalent requests.

you definitely have

> made me think deep about a few things. Would my husband be able to care

> for my kids if anything were to happen to me? I'm not sure really. If I

> wrote a specific list for him to follow yes he would. He is a good Dad

> in the aspect he enjoys his time with the kids. He entertains them he

> has patience when disciplining them and he truly tries to talk them

> throught their frustrations because he knows that he struggles.But as

> far as caring for them on a daily basis I don't know....I

It is NOT your job to create a specific list for him. If he is anything

like Rex and several other AS people I know, he would follow the list

when it suited him, and probably not at all after a while. but if HE

makes the list and is truly committed to doing it and truly wants to

keep the relationship, he will keep doing it.

If he can keep a job, if he is functional in the world at all, he can

care for his kids on a daily basis. He simply has to be told that this

is his job and his responsibility and the consequences will be that he

no longer has his children if he doesn't do it.

For what it is worth, and I recognize you didn't ask for advice so take

this or leave it, I think you are doing yourself and your husband a huge

disservice by cutting him so much slack. You are taking on the

responsibility for his maturation, and no one can do that for another

person. It is like disciplining the dog instead of training it. The dog

will behave while the disciplinarian is there, but left to its own

devices he is what he is: an untrained dog. If your husband has to make

his own choices about his behavior, knowing full well what the

consequences will be if he doesn't, he will change if he wants to.

Let me end this too long post by referring back to your Christmas tale.

So what if he is uncomfortable with moving things around? Does one

person get to make the entire family miserable so he can avoid

discomfort? HE needs to find coping mechanisms that work for him so his

family can have a happy holiday. NO, you don't help him find his coping

mechanisms. Don't talk it to death. Just tell him, we are having

Christmas and you need to find a way to deal with this. I don't know

what you have to do, just do it so we can have a nice Christmas. You

have a husband and a father, not another child. Treat him like it.

Shoshana

--

Life is what happens to you; living is how you manage it.

read about our adventures at www.justjosmidden.blogspot.com

[Guest guest]

edwards-jemison wrote:

> stephanie muska wrote:

>

> So when now I have a problem

>

>>with a behavior I try not to get upset or raise my voice and waslk Curt

>>through what his thought process is. You are right I shouldn't be

>>satified with not truly addressing the problem.

>

>

> Interesting. If I ask Rex what his through process is he will tell me he

> doesn't know. I used to get quite angry with that response. But now I

> know that he truly doesn't, because it didn't involve a thought process.

[ snip ]

Actually of course, it *does* involve " a " thought process. If in fact

he's truly AS, it's very likely to be very different from yours.

If the archives are available (?) you could search on

" visual-spatial " (OR/AND " metaphor " , " picture-thinking " and similar).

Adding my last name mightn't hurt; I hammered on the subject a lot over

the last year or so.

That different cognitive style is more common among autistics and

very much less common among NTs. *It IS real*. It's very worthwhile to

understand what it is and how it plays out in both your lives.

And in AS/NT interactions generally.

- Bill, 75, AS

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

WD Loughman wrote:

> If the archives are available (?) you could search on

> " visual-spatial " (OR/AND " metaphor " , " picture-thinking " and similar).

> Adding my last name mightn't hurt; I hammered on the subject a lot over

> the last year or so.

Message-ID:

Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 12:26:54 -0700

Reply-To: ASPIRES discussion

Sender: ASPIRES discussion

Subject: Re: [ASPIRES] Autism 'Epidemic' in Schools Called Illusory

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Tim Channon wrote:

> This subject is deeply important to me as I try to get an understanding

> of what is different in my brain.

>

> WD Loughman wrote:

[ snip ]

>> As to " impairment which causes difficulty with higher abstract

>> thought " . I have no such impairment. But my cognitive process is

>> very different from others', in being *hugely* " visual-spatial " .

>> Relatively few NTs have it; and not all autists by any means.

>> Abstract thought is a snap. It's been the major underpinning of

>> whatever success I achieved.

>

> Ok, it would be useful to know what you mean by v-s and by abstract.

" The visual spatial learner thrives on complexity, yet struggles with

easy material; loves difficult puzzles, but hates drill and repetition;

is great at geometry and physics, but poor at phonics and spelling. She

has keen visual memory, but poor auditory memory; is creative and

imaginative, but inattentive in class; is a systems thinker, all the

while disorganized, forgets the details. He excels in math analysis, but

is poor at calculation; has high reading comprehension, but low word

recognition; has an excellent sense of humor, and performs poorly on

timed tests. " -- Kreger Silverman

That's from: http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/visual-spatial.htm

....which has more good stuff.

Silverman's website(s): http://www.gifteddevelopment.com/

....also leads to lots of good stuff.

The term " abstract " was yours. While others are valid, *I* take its

meaning to be both of:

1. Considered apart from concrete existence: an abstract concept.

2. Difficult to understand; abstruse:

The second is the commonplace meaning? In the context of visual-spatial

thinking - mine anyway - the first is more useful.

I " see " the essence of things, their abstractions, *and* the connections

between those abstractions.

When I look at some mechanism I " see " its component parts and how

they fit together - the gestalt. I " see " how it works. If it's broken,

I " see " the way to fix. Even improve it. This isn't linear analysis.

Happens in a wink, all at once.

I " see " mathematical concepts, formulae, answers all together in a

sort of space-filling abstraction. Visual-spatial.

I " see " political concepts, personal relationships, " the world " ,

everything, ...all in that same visual-spatial way.

This seems _similar_ to what Temple Grandin famously calls " picture

thinking " . I don't think it's quite the same.

>

> For me I hit a mental wall if I try to get the concept of fancy math

> into my brain, can't handle the upper levels of literature, that kind if

> thing. Perhaps this is just my poor memory, I hate this, it is so

> frustrating, when others seem to have no trouble.

The common alternate to " visual-spatial " is " auditory-sequential " , maybe

also a Silverman coinage. Most standard ways of teaching math are

auditory-sequential in nature. Most people " think math " that way. Some

can think *both* ways to some degree. There are some tricks useful in

casting one approach into the framework of the other, even for NTs.

>

> I used to think that I did not have a visual memory but recently I am

> starting to wonder whether that is so.

[ snip ]

> Some time ago I came across something written by an AS computer

> programmer. It was so on the mark, mentioning things I do and included

> the computer debug problem, where he could only do it if he could

> visualise the problem, then he was very good. Load of stuff not normally

> mentioned.

All of this is hugely interesting to me, and deserves much more comment.

If you want to pursue it, let's avoid provoking anyone; take it all

off-list.

- Bill

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

Tim Channon wrote:

> WD Loughman wrote:

>>If the archives are available (?) you could search on

>> " visual-spatial " (OR/AND " metaphor " , " picture-thinking " and similar).

>>Adding my last name mightn't hurt; I hammered on the subject a lot over

>>the last year or so.

>

> Message-ID:

> Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 12:26:54 -0700

> Reply-To: ASPIRES discussion

> Sender: ASPIRES discussion

>

> Subject: Re: [ASPIRES] Autism 'Epidemic' in Schools Called Illusory

> To: ASPIRES@...

> In-Reply-To:

[ snip ]

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

> Tim Channon wrote:

> > This subject is deeply important to me as I try to get an understanding

> > of what is different in my brain.

> >

> > WD Loughman wrote:

> [ snip ]

> >> As to " impairment which causes difficulty with higher abstract

> >> thought " . I have no such impairment. But my cognitive process is

> >> very different from others', in being *hugely* " visual-spatial " .

> >> Relatively few NTs have it; and not all autists by any means.

> >> Abstract thought is a snap. It's been the major underpinning of

> >> whatever success I achieved.

> >

> > Ok, it would be useful to know what you mean by v-s and by abstract.

>

> " The visual spatial learner thrives on complexity, yet struggles with

> easy material; loves difficult puzzles, but hates drill and repetition;

> is great at geometry and physics, but poor at phonics and spelling. She

> has keen visual memory, but poor auditory memory; is creative and

> imaginative, but inattentive in class; is a systems thinker, all the

> while disorganized, forgets the details. He excels in math analysis, but

> is poor at calculation; has high reading comprehension, but low word

> recognition; has an excellent sense of humor, and performs poorly on

> timed tests. " -- Kreger Silverman

>

> That's from: http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/visual-spatial.htm

> ...which has more good stuff.

>

> Silverman's website(s): http://www.gifteddevelopment.com/

> ...also leads to lots of good stuff.

[ snip, for brevity ]

> - Bill

Good, Tim. Is that from your own personal " cache " ?

A similar search might turn up stuff on AS' thinking with " metaphor " as

well, which should be equally or more useful in the current context.

- Bill, 75, AS

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

WD Loughman wrote:

> Good, Tim. Is that from your own personal " cache " ?

>

> A similar search might turn up stuff on AS' thinking with " metaphor " as

> well, which should be equally or more useful in the current context.

Yes, I don't delete, some though is unusually archived into a different

place. I have yet to find a satisfactory email archival method. Probably

200M of mbox data for Aspires.

Searching is not very satisfactory unless the keywords are distinct.

Metaphor appears in 29 messages. AS is not a useful term.

[Guest guest]

Tim Channon wrote:

> WD Loughman wrote:

>

>>Good, Tim. Is that from your own personal " cache " ?

>>

>>A similar search might turn up stuff on AS' thinking with " metaphor " as

>>well, which should be equally or more useful in the current context.

>

> Yes, I don't delete, some though is unusually archived into a different

> place. I have yet to find a satisfactory email archival method. Probably

> 200M of mbox data for Aspires.

Maybe a little low actually; otherwise in the right range.

Especially considering all the " chaff " propagated into archives by

people who won't trim down original-message threads, and by people who

insist on using HTML in email. Both of which bloat message sizes

something fearful (as you know).

My own holdings for 2006 (since Mar 11, when I joined ASPIRES) run

c.9MB. For 2007 it's c.29MB. ...I *do* delete a great many.

In both cases my saved sizes also are reduced hugely because the

larger emails *I* trim the chaff. Semi-automagically with a lil'old

program I wrote originally for trimming USENET postings.

>

> Searching is not very satisfactory unless the keywords are distinct.

> Metaphor appears in 29 messages. AS is not a useful term.

Yeah, and yeah. One has to admire Google's methods. Conceptualizing a

search program isn't so hard, even with " random " data. But actually

*writing* a good one isn't so easy. A little like solving (a matrix

of) N equations with N+1 unknowns.

- Bill, 75, AS; ...EVERYbody loves math and computers, right?

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

Wow,!

A hand-made gift for your ex-girlfriend! I am impressed with your

thoughtfulness.

Sharon NT(?) wife and mom of AS family

> > > > Tim, just a quick note to add some more descriptive things about

> > > > involving socializing. He has a married sister, niece

> and

> > > > nephew, cousins, aunts and uncles living nearby. He hasn't

> talked to

> > > > them in decades. I have not met them. He doesn't even see his

> own

> > > > family, except for his father who passed away a number of years

> ago.

> > >

> > > I don't.

> > >

> > > I've discussed this and it was pointed out that there is a

> difference

> > > between people who are minutes away and hours.

> > >

> > > When I was young I would visit occasionally but that fell away.

> > There is

> > > nothing to discuss, nothing in common but apart from my brother

> there

> > > isn't a problem as such. (my brother doesn't want contact for

> reasons

> > > which are unclear)

> > >

> > > Visiting relatives seems to be all about duty, not a wish to do

> so.

> > >

> > > Having no sense of family seems to be common in autism. Strangers

> are

> > > just as important. To be honest the family thing puzzles me.

> > >

> > > > If he is in any group, such as when he takes me to a club

> meeting

> > > > where most of the membership is men, he talks to no one and

> keeps

> > > > entirely to himself. He usually leaves the area and takes a walk

> > > > somewhere.

> > >

> > > Grin. If my wife wanted to go the the cinema that is what I would

> want

> > > to do. I don't mind taking her at all.

> > >

> > > Maybe it's as much about tolerating things without showing what

> is

> > > really going on, not so easy.

> > >

> > > So you go to visit a relative.

> > > To do what? Births, marriages, deaths, funerals.

> > >

> > > Seems to me there is nonsense talk. I guess a lot of non verbal.

> It

> > > holds no interest.

> > >

> > > Don't you think, in regards to my husband, that the term

> > > > 'antisocial' just might fit? Verleen

> > >

> > > Must fit me too.

> > > The situation if you see people daily is I suspect different,

> more

> > > likely to he shared things.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Sharon. I am living proof that those who have AS can go

on to live a productive life (even as I felt last year a rug had been

taken out from me under me, metaphorically, and I saw myself dropping

down a good way before picking myself up).

> > > > > Tim, just a quick note to add some more descriptive things

about

> > > > > involving socializing. He has a married sister,

niece

> > and

> > > > > nephew, cousins, aunts and uncles living nearby. He hasn't

> > talked to

> > > > > them in decades. I have not met them. He doesn't even see

his

> > own

> > > > > family, except for his father who passed away a number of

years

> > ago.

> > > >

> > > > I don't.

> > > >

> > > > I've discussed this and it was pointed out that there is a

> > difference

> > > > between people who are minutes away and hours.

> > > >

> > > > When I was young I would visit occasionally but that fell

away.

> > > There is

> > > > nothing to discuss, nothing in common but apart from my

brother

> > there

> > > > isn't a problem as such. (my brother doesn't want contact for

> > reasons

> > > > which are unclear)

> > > >

> > > > Visiting relatives seems to be all about duty, not a wish to

do

> > so.

> > > >

> > > > Having no sense of family seems to be common in autism.

Strangers

> > are

> > > > just as important. To be honest the family thing puzzles me.

> > > >

> > > > > If he is in any group, such as when he takes me to a club

> > meeting

> > > > > where most of the membership is men, he talks to no one and

> > keeps

> > > > > entirely to himself. He usually leaves the area and takes a

walk

> > > > > somewhere.

> > > >

> > > > Grin. If my wife wanted to go the the cinema that is what I

would

> > want

> > > > to do. I don't mind taking her at all.

> > > >

> > > > Maybe it's as much about tolerating things without showing

what

> > is

> > > > really going on, not so easy.

> > > >

> > > > So you go to visit a relative.

> > > > To do what? Births, marriages, deaths, funerals.

> > > >

> > > > Seems to me there is nonsense talk. I guess a lot of non

verbal.

> > It

> > > > holds no interest.

> > > >

> > > > Don't you think, in regards to my husband, that the term

> > > > > 'antisocial' just might fit? Verleen

> > > >

> > > > Must fit me too.

> > > > The situation if you see people daily is I suspect different,

> > more

> > > > likely to he shared things.

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>