We speak a different emotional language.

[Guest guest]

Newland wrote:

> /But we look like you, we speak the same language, maybe went to the

> exact same schools. You *know* us, right? So you marry us, right? We

> should behave like you do, right?

> No, wrong. We " speak " a different " emotional " language./

>

> Bill:

>

> I am totally with you here and others. No arguments. BUT, here is the

> million dollar question?

[ snip ]

These are *very* important questions.

No surprise: I'll essay answers. But not tonight; I've a lo-o-ong

day in only a few hours (friends' !50th! bash) and just gotta get some

sleep. After maybe 5-6pm I'll be back.

Somebody else: Jump in and have at!

- Bill, 75, AS

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

I am discovering in my relationship....

> Can someone with AS and I know many do, provide the emotional support

> needed to maintain a relationship? 

My AS partner is learning how to provide me with the emotional support

I need and I am learning how to communicate my needs to him in a way

that he can understand. So I think that a person with AS can provide

emotional support. But every individual is different and every

relationship too.

> What about the ones that cannot? 

I personally would not have a relationship with someone who could not

support me emotionally. I do not think that being AS means being unable

to fulfill emotional needs of a partner. This is not my experience. I

have had relationships with NS's who have been unable to support my

emotional needs. My partner did not instinctively understand my needs

but is willing and able to learn about my needs and I am learning how

to communicate them to him. If he wasn't prepared to try and fulfill my

needs I do not think I could stay in a relationship with him. For me,

being in a relationship is all about being with a person who is

fulfilling emotional needs. I have also learned that some of my needs

could not be met by him alone but not because of AS but because it was

an unrealistic expectation. Communication is the answer.

> How can anyone say that someone should live without emotional support

> that needs it to grow and flourish? 

No one should have to live without emotional support - who says they

should? My AS partner has many emotional needs (more than I do

possibly) and I support him. He has difficulty expressing them to me,

but I am learning how to understand his needs and he is learning how to

recognise and express his needs.

> You cannot blame someone with NS for wanting or craving this life  as

> they need this like they breath air. 

All people have emotional needs - AS and NS - and need them fulfilled

just like we all need air to breath. Different people have different

needs, it is not a divide between NS/AS in my experience.

> Just curious any more than one can say the one with AS is providing

> emotional support the best they can but might seem like they aren't. 

> Either they are or not?  Who is the Judge?  The one with AS or the one

> on the receiving end???

I think that if a person feels supported then they are being supported.

If not, then they are not. It is no good feeding someone apples if they

need bananas so to speak... but it is the responsibility of the needy

person to communicate accurately what they need. If shouting " I need

bananas " is not heard then a new language might be needed.

Best wishes

Delyth

[Guest guest]

,

I think a huge part of this whole 'thing' (for lack of a better word) is that as a society people are defining actions as feelings. There would be much less confusion if we understood things as actions. Entirely too often a person is accepted on the basis of how they make another person feel. There is no thought process. There is no logic. Anyone can show remorse by their actions. Anyone can show love by their actions. (For you Christian types read 1 Cor. Ch 13. Those are predominately action words. Feel free to contact me off list as I could have a lot more to say about this from a Christian standpoint.) Anyone can decide to GIVE instead of TAKE from their partner. These are all actions. We do not need the feeling to be there first in order to CHOOSE to do something nice. I don't have to feel anything about the grocery clerk to say, "Have a nice day." but it makes the grocery clerk FEEL like I felt something. (I just figured that out as I was writing by the way)

>>I am totally with you here and others. No arguments. BUT, here is the million dollar question? Can someone with AS and I know many do, provide the emotional support needed to maintain a relationship?<<

I have provided my husband with emotional support not only to maintain the relationship but also to assist him in moving on from his past issues. (abusive family)

>>What about the ones that cannot?<<

I do not believe it is cannot. I believe it is will not. I think in the end good relationships come down to a few very basic principles. Do both people give or take. Does one give and one take. Anyone can choose to give to another. Take the example of gifts. Anyone can mark his/her calendar and then go to the store and buy something. I'm willing to bet these people buy things for themselves. Do things for themselves. There is nothing stopping them from doing for someone else. The same is true for other ways of giving.

I know I have said this before but it's been a few years so maybe it bears repeating.... If these AS partners were functional enough to appear 'good' enough to marry then they are certainly capable of continuing that behavior. If they weren't any more functional when dating then what can anyone do with that? The partner then choose to marry a clearly dysfunctional person. But if he/she appeared reasonably normal.... well then he/she was 'capable' of behaving in that way. He/she has clearly already done that.

>>Where is the middle ground for someone with NS that needs this sun light with a partner with AS who has no need and is happy with out the light?<<

See above point....There must have been some common ground in the first place or the two would not have married...? They found middle ground when they were dating. Either through genuine sameness/attraction, or on the negative side through denial of reality. Probably both. Also probably some behavioral adjusting on the part of both. Also I doubt that the AS partner has no need. It just isn't apparent, doesn't look the same.

>>Question: How do we separate those with AS that appear to have no empathy or remorse for their behavior that hurt others with those that stand before the criminal courts and present the same? How do we know the difference as like you and I and others have said before there is no real test for AS? If the courts can't see a difference, how can you expect families and others to see what you do? With all do respect and not trying to pick a fight, just trying to understand.<<

First, If I do something illegal it makes no difference if I have remorse or not I should have whatever the consequence is. I am not stupid therefore I would have known before I did whatever it was that it was illegal / wrong. When I speed I don't expect to get let off from having a ticket just because I feel remorse.... even IF I was speeding unintentionally.(Say I didn't see the speed change sign.) So I don't think it's relevant to tell the difference between those with remorse and those without. But in my opinion someone with remorse would demonstrate that by DOing something. Example: Two men joined a Christian ministry for veterans. The rules of the house were that you could not have outstanding criminal records. One of the men had no remorse and just took what he could get from the system. He had to be 'found out'. One of the leaders found out that he had an outstanding warrant and turned him in. The other man lived for a while at the house also but then came forward and turned himself in. His crime was done in another state and was not significant, it is likely he could have gotten away without anyone knowing. To see the two men one would have thought they were the same. Both got into the program. One DID something that showed remorse. The other did not.

The whole idea of there being people without the capacity to stop doing things that are clearly wrong is just to weird to me. When I say 'wrong' I do not mean lack of hygiene. I suppose the whole thing comes down to a theory of origins. If you subscribe to the theory of evolution then I suppose it is very possible that some beings might evolve without a moral compass. If you subscribe to a religious explanation for the universe then saying someone has no conscience becomes a moral dilemma in and of its self depending on which of the many religious views you hold to.

Jennie

[Guest guest]

I suppose the whole thing comes down to a theory of origins. If you subscribe to the theory of evolution then I suppose it is very possible that some beings might evolve without a moral compass. If you subscribe to a religious explanation for the universe then saying someone has no conscience becomes a moral dilemma in and of its self depending on which of the many religious views you hold to. Jennie, I found your post helpful and insightful but when I got to the end, and read the part I copied here... I'm not going to touch this with a ten foot pole.... Janet ZEE almost offended.

[Guest guest]

Jennie, I tried to send this off-list, but for some reason, my computer would not allow it. So, I will take a bit of the Scripture out. if you write me off-list, my computer should let me reply. I love your post- it made me feel much better! there are people on this list who have stated recently that they do not want to be bothered with others who have a developmental delay-- or at least, reading it literally implies that. I know that these remarks are not meant to include all AS folk, and that it is written this way out of pain, but it still hurt. Your letter made me feel a lot better. Thanks!Jennie Unknown wrote: , I think a huge part of this whole 'thing' (for lack of a better word) is that as a society people are defining actions as feelings. There would be much less confusion if we understood things as actions. Entirely too often a person is accepted on the basis of how they make another person feel. There is no thought process. There is no logic. Anyone can show remorse by their actions. Anyone can show love by their actions. (For you Christian types read 1 Cor. Ch 13. Those are predominately action words. Feel free to

contact me off list as I could have a lot more to say about this from a Christian standpoint.) Anyone can decide to GIVE instead of TAKE from their partner. These are all actions. We do not need the feeling to be there first in order to CHOOSE to do something nice. I don't have to feel anything about the grocery clerk to say, "Have a nice day." but it makes the grocery clerk FEEL like I felt something. (I just figured that out as I was writing by the way) >>I am totally with you here and others. No arguments. BUT, here is the million dollar question? Can someone with AS and I know many do, provide the emotional support needed to maintain a relationship?<< I have provided my husband with emotional support not only to maintain the relationship but also to

assist him in moving on from his past issues. (abusive family) >>What about the ones that cannot?<< I do not believe it is cannot. I believe it is will not. I think in the end good relationships come down to a few very basic principles. Do both people give or take. Does one give and one take. Anyone can choose to give to another. Take the example of gifts. Anyone can mark his/her calendar and then go to the store and buy something. I'm willing to bet these people buy things for themselves. Do things for themselves. There is nothing stopping them from doing for someone else. The same is true for other ways of giving. I know I have said this before but it's been a few years so maybe it bears

repeating.... If these AS partners were functional enough to appear 'good' enough to marry then they are certainly capable of continuing that behavior. If they weren't any more functional when dating then what can anyone do with that? The partner then choose to marry a clearly dysfunctional person. But if he/she appeared reasonably normal.... well then he/she was 'capable' of behaving in that way. He/she has clearly already done that. >>Where is the middle ground for someone with NS that needs this sun light with a partner with AS who has no need and is happy with out the light?<< See above point....There must have been some common ground in the first place or the two would not have married...? They found middle ground when they were dating. Either through

genuine sameness/attraction, or on the negative side through denial of reality. Probably both. Also probably some behavioral adjusting on the part of both. Also I doubt that the AS partner has no need. It just isn't apparent, doesn't look the same. >>Question: How do we separate those with AS that appear to have no empathy or remorse for their behavior that hurt others with those that stand before the criminal courts and present the same? How do we know the difference as like you and I and others have said before there is no real test for AS? If the courts can't see a difference, how can you expect families and others to see what you do? With all do respect and not trying to pick a fight, just trying to understand.<< First, If I do something illegal it makes no difference if I have remorse or not I should have whatever the consequence is. I am not stupid therefore I would have known before I did whatever it was that it was illegal / wrong. When I speed I don't expect to get let off from having a ticket just because I feel remorse.... even IF I was speeding unintentionally.(Say I didn't see the speed change sign.) So I don't think it's relevant to tell the difference between those with remorse and those without. But in my opinion someone with remorse would demonstrate that by DOing something. Example: Two men joined a Christian ministry for veterans. The rules of the house were that you could not have outstanding criminal records. One of the men had no remorse and just took what he could get from the system. He had to be 'found out'. One of the leaders found out that he had an outstanding warrant and turned him in. The other man lived for a

while at the house also but then came forward and turned himself in. His crime was done in another state and was not significant, it is likely he could have gotten away without anyone knowing. To see the two men one would have thought they were the same. Both got into the program. One DID something that showed remorse. The other did not. The whole idea of there being people without the capacity to stop doing things that are clearly wrong is just to weird to me. When I say 'wrong' I do not mean lack of hygiene. I suppose the whole thing comes down to a theory of origins. If you subscribe to the theory of evolution then I suppose it is very possible that some beings might evolve without a moral compass. If you subscribe to a religious explanation for the universe then saying someone has no conscience becomes a moral dilemma in and of its self depending on which

of the many religious views you hold to. Jennie

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[Guest guest]

HI AstryngiaHelena here again, after a 6 month absence from list. We met in Coventry alst May at the Maxine Aston weekend. I am so glad to hear you've moved and are coming out of the twilight zone!Keep on; it sounds wonderful.HelenaEngland, UK Re: We "speak" a different "emotional" language.

I was talking to a new friend the other day, and explained the bare bones of AS in my family - my husband, mother, son...She knew something of AS, tho I didn't know what exactly (she had been in the medical profession). ..She also knew I had cancer and was now living alone somewhere completely new to take time and space to look after myself.

And then she astounded me by saying 'Haven't you got *anyone* who can support you?'. Well, I replied, I have a very good friend who I know wants all good things for me...And she said 'Well, you've got another one here'. How kind! But I hadn't thought of it that way - I was just glad to escape the negative stuff.

Much as those AS people in my life are instrinsically good people, and I care about them and can feel tender love for them, and they don't wish me any harm, they all cause me damage. Without knowing it, without me knowing it. It's in the subtle everday interactions - the stress of uneasy communication, the tension of having to explain things every which way and still being misunderstood and assumed to be 'out to get them'. Riding that fine line to avoid triggering fear or rage in the person with AS. Organising a life so as to avoid their discomfiture.

And the effect that had on me : I had begun to communicate in the same way with 'normal' people - but then that made my 'normal' communication 'odd'!! I'd find myself repeating myself several times, repeating myself - several times - and wondering why; and I'd find myself explaining things in as many ways as I could think of and through as many media as possible - then being accused of being patronising and infuriating people who felt slighted. It was only after I began to understand about AS that i began to understand why I had changed my communication style so much after I was married. (Going back in time - as a child, I had given up hope of being understood so was silent long into my young adulthood but had finally found my voice as a university student so I had a few 'normal' years!).

If it had become so 'normal' for me to communicate in such an 'abnormal' way, to go to such lengths to ensure other people felt comfortable around me, I wonder if anyone living with AS actually realises how much they adapt and change - it's so subtle and over such a long period of time...do they realise how stressful it is, how much stress their body and their emotions and brain is dealing with every day. It just becomes...'normal'.

I like my new 'normal' without the stress of communicating with my AS loved ones. I can feel my body expanding (I guess that means 'relaxing'), my weight is coming down, my brain is slowing down instead of being 'hyper', I can think and remember, and I can follow my own sense of time. I'm no longer in a state of high alert, acting as tho I'm under attack and ready for a seige!! So I'm spending less, too!! I'm not expecting to get bumped into like I'm living in a pinball machine. What's precious to me, is taken care of - and nobody carelessly and thoughtlessly damages it or destroys it.

I knew very little of all this while I was living it. Someone gave me the phrase - living in another dimension. And that's what it feels like - AS and NT - we are here and now together and yet...living in two different dimensions. I don't think we ever meet each other's needs other than in functional terms. The biggest shock to me was learning that my husband just 'goes through the motions' and he's very good at it. I understood it when I saw how my son handles his friends and teachers. He uses the right vocabularly, does the 'right' things - and I admire my son for being so smart. But as a wife, being 'handled' or 'managed' isn't right. Love isn't love without the desire and the heart. Functional love is not love. Going through the motions isn't 'love'. My lovely husband is totally incapable of loving me, of having an emotionally intimate relationship with me.

And I finally know I deserve better and that one day - even tho I'm 55 - somebody is going to turn to me and say 'I love you' and have the same meaning behind it as I do. And I will find joy instead of grinding misery. Because I finally realised just how grey and miserable I had become, functioning (barely) rather than living.

i care very much about those people with AS in my life - I feel huge amounts of compassion for their pain at trying to/having to live in this NT world and cope with the unkindness and antagonism of those who don't understand AS. I don't think they are able to feel compassion for me, but I know they wish me well. They don't 'miss' me except in functional ways for what I can 'do' or 'did' for them. I think my husband is relieved that he doesn't have to work so hard at trying to do something he can never do 'naturally' - it was jolly hard work for him, too.

I can only say 'stop banging your head against a brick wall' - it won't shift, it won't budge - and it's just so nice when it stops!!! :-)Namaste!A.On 03/02/2008, Newland <opubendbroadband (DOT) com> wrote:

But we look like you, we speak the same language, maybe went to the exact same schools. You *know* us, right? So you marry us, right? We should behave like you do, right?No, wrong. We "speak" a different "emotional" language.

Bill:

I am totally with you here and others. No arguments. BUT, here is the million dollar question? Can someone with AS and I know many do, provide the emotional support needed to maintain a relationship? What about the ones that cannot? How can anyone say that someone should live without emotional support that needs it to grow and flourish? You cannot blame someone with NS for wanting or craving this life as they need this like they breath air. Just curious any more than one can say the one with AS is providing emotional support the best they can but might seem like they aren't. Either they are or not? Who is the Judge? The one with AS or the one on the receiving end???

Where is the middle ground for someone with NS that needs this sun light with a partner with AS who has no need and is happy with out the light? Not trying to offend, just trying to understand? A partnership or marriage is earned on both sides and it is not a right of law or passage. One can not force NS or AS on another person. Most folks come to support groups due to bad or hurtful behavior seeking awareness, understanding and above all support.

Question: How do we separate those with AS that appear to have no empathy or remorse for their behavior that hurt others with those that stand before the criminal courts and present the same? How do we know the difference as like you and I and others have said before there is no real test for AS? If the courts can't see a difference, how can you expect families and others to see what you do? With all do respect and not trying to pick a fight, just trying to understand.

Does this make any sense? Starting a 4 day vacation with a glass of wine. Happy Super Bowl to all you Sports fans/USA tomorrow.

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[Guest guest]

Wow, I had missed that you had made these changes... my best wishes for you!  Let us know how you are progressing... jkzI was talking to a new friend the other day, and explained the bare bones of AS in my family - my husband, mother, son...She knew something of AS, tho I didn't know what exactly (she had been in the medical profession)...She also knew I had cancer and was now living alone somewhere completely new to take time and space to look after myself. And then she astounded me by saying 'Haven't you got *anyone* who can support you?'.  Well, I replied, I have a very good friend who I know wants all good things for me...And she said 'Well, you've got another one here'.  How kind!  But I hadn't thought of it that way - I was just glad to escape the negative stuff.Much as those AS people in my life are instrinsically good people, and I care about them and can feel tender love for them, and they don't wish me any harm,  they all cause me damage.  Without knowing it, without me knowing it.  It's in the subtle everday interactions - the stress of uneasy communication, the tension of having to explain things every which way and still being misunderstood and assumed to be 'out to get them'.  Riding that fine line to avoid triggering fear or rage in the person with AS.  Organising a life so as to avoid their discomfiture.And the effect that had on me : I had begun to communicate in the same way with 'normal' people - but then that made my 'normal' communication 'odd'!!  I'd find myself repeating myself several times, repeating myself - several times - and wondering why; and I'd find myself explaining things in as many ways as I could think of and through as many media as possible - then being accused of being patronising and infuriating people who felt slighted.  It was only after I began to understand about AS that i began to understand why I had changed my communication style so much after I was married. (Going back in time - as a child, I had given up hope of being understood so was silent long into my young adulthood but had finally found my voice as a university student so I had a few 'normal' years!).  If it had become so 'normal' for me to communicate in such an 'abnormal' way, to go to such lengths to ensure other people felt comfortable around me, I wonder if anyone living with AS actually realises how much they adapt and change - it's so subtle and over such a long period of time...do they realise how stressful it is, how much stress their body and their emotions and brain is dealing with every day. It just becomes...'normal'.I like my new 'normal' without the stress of communicating with my AS loved ones.  I can feel my body expanding (I guess that means 'relaxing'), my weight is coming down, my brain is slowing down instead of being 'hyper', I can think and remember, and I can follow my own sense of time.  I'm no longer in a state of high alert, acting as tho I'm under attack and ready for a seige!!  So I'm spending less, too!!  I'm not expecting to get bumped into like I'm living in a pinball machine. What's precious to me, is taken care of - and nobody carelessly and thoughtlessly damages it or destroys it.I knew very little of all this while I was living it.  Someone gave me the phrase - living in another dimension.  And that's what it feels like - AS and NT - we are here and now together and yet...living in two different dimensions.  I don't think we ever meet each other's needs other than in functional terms.  The biggest shock to me was learning that my husband just 'goes through the motions' and he's very good at it. I understood it when I saw how my son handles his friends and teachers. He uses the right vocabularly, does the 'right' things - and I admire my son for being so smart.  But as a wife, being 'handled' or 'managed' isn't right.  Love isn't love without the desire and the heart.  Functional love is not love.  Going through the motions isn't 'love'.  My lovely husband is totally incapable of loving me, of having an emotionally intimate relationship with me.And I finally know I deserve better and that one day - even tho I'm 55 - somebody is going to turn to me and say 'I love you' and have the same meaning behind it as I do.  And I will find joy instead of grinding misery.  Because I finally realised just how grey and miserable I had become, functioning (barely) rather than living.i care very much about those people with AS in my life - I feel huge amounts of compassion for their pain at trying to/having to live in this NT world and cope with the unkindness and antagonism of those who don't understand AS.  I don't think they are able to feel compassion for me, but I know they wish me well.  They don't 'miss' me except in functional ways for what I can 'do' or 'did' for them.  I think my husband is relieved that he doesn't have to work so hard at trying to do something he can never do 'naturally' - it was jolly hard work for him, too.  I can only say 'stop banging your head against a brick wall' - it won't shift, it won't budge - and it's just so nice when it stops!!! :-)Namaste!A.On 03/02/2008,  Newland <opubendbroadband> wrote:But we look like you, we speak the same language, maybe went to the exact same schools. You *know* us, right? So you marry us, right? We should behave like you do, right?No, wrong. We "speak" a different "emotional" language. Bill: I am totally with you here and others.  No arguments.  BUT, here is the million dollar question?  Can someone with AS and I know many do, provide the emotional support needed to maintain a relationship?  What about the ones that cannot?  How can anyone say that someone should live without emotional support that needs it to grow and flourish?  You cannot blame someone with NS for wanting or craving this life  as they need this like they breath air.  Just curious any more than one can say the one with AS is providing emotional support the best they can but might seem like they aren't.  Either they are or not?  Who is the Judge?  The one with AS or the one on the receiving end??? Where is the middle ground for someone with NS that needs this sun light with a partner with AS who has no need and is happy with out the light?  Not trying to offend, just trying to understand?  A partnership or marriage is earned on both sides and it is not a right of law or passage.  One can not force NS or AS on another person.  Most folks come to support groups due to bad or hurtful behavior seeking awareness, understanding and above all support.  Question:  How do we separate those with AS that appear to have no empathy or remorse for their behavior that hurt others with those that stand before the criminal courts and present the same?  How do we know the difference as like you and I and others have said before there is no real test for AS?  If the courts can't see a difference, how can you expect families and others to see what you do?  With all do respect and not trying to pick a fight, just trying to understand.   Does this make any sense?  Starting a 4 day vacation with a glass of wine.  Happy Super Bowl to all you Sports fans/USA tomorrow.

[Guest guest]

How funny. I hadn't come up with this possibility of things to be 'almost offensive' at all. LOL

Anyway, just to set the record straight I was not drawing a comparison between the two as I am well aware of religious folk who subscribe to the theory of evolution as well as folks who are not religious but subscribe to a theory of creationistic beginnings. I just think that a person's belief about this may effect their perspective on this particular topic.

Jennie- Thanks for the clarification.

Re: We "speak" a different "emotional" language.

I suppose the whole thing comes down to a theory of origins. If you subscribe to the theory of evolution then I suppose it is very possible that some beings might evolve without a moral compass. If you subscribe to a religious explanation for the universe then saying someone has no conscience becomes a moral dilemma in and of its self depending on which of the many religious views you hold to.

Jennie, I found your post helpful and insightful but when I got to the end, and read the part I copied here... I'm not going to touch this with a ten foot pole.... Janet ZEE almost offended.

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[Guest guest]

I agree many religious people are like that. I grew up in a nearly a cult religion. Extreme us/them mentality. However many non religious people create a divide by the same us-them mentality. Like they (the religious) are stupid and weak versus we are intellectual and strong. Or they (the religious) are all judgmental fruitcakes. The knife cuts both ways.

Jennie -don't worry folks, this isn't degenerating into a fight... Janet and I are old buddies. Right Janet? LOL A little levity does no harm.

Re: We "speak" a different "emotional" language.

I suppose the whole thing comes down to a theory of origins. If you subscribe to the theory of evolution then I suppose it is very possible that some beings might evolve without a moral compass. If you subscribe to a religious explanation for the universe then saying someone has no conscience becomes a moral dilemma in and of its self depending on which of the many religious views you hold to.

Jennie, I found your post helpful and insightful but when I got to the end, and read the part I copied here... I'm not going to touch this with a ten foot pole.... Janet ZEE almost offended

..

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[Guest guest]

Been there, done that. My father was the " my way or the highway "

type who lived by an extremist form of Christianity and brain washed

me to believe things his way. He called himself, " God's Green Beret "

of all things. I was young back then. What else did I know other

than obeying what my parents said?

Only one year stands larger than last year - 2003. That's when I was

at the University of Kansas for my first semester in graduate

school. About halfway through that semester, I put everything on the

proverbial " kitchen table " and asked myself why I believed the things

I did. Then I asked myself did I believe it for one reason or

another. After I came to my own conclusions, I began to experience a

sense of evolution occuring in my own life. I began experiencing and

doing things I would not have thought of until that point in my life

So, I did them, and don't have any regrets about doing them. Over

the course of that time, I became very liberal in what I believed and

developed a strong open mindedness about life in general. This

occured BEFORE I was diagnosed with AS and ADHD. Being diagnosed

with these things have enabled me to appreciate my very liberal self

and such.

I respect those who might be much more conservative and the like. We

all should do whatever makes us the happiest in life. After all, I

don't see anyone in the NT business world giving me any advantage

over someone who is NT. Know what? I don't care. In my view, life

is about making the world a better place than it is now. How I wish

I was old enough to have taken part of the hippie movement in the

1960's. Peace, love, happiness, and joy. But all of it without the

drug paraphenalia and facial hair LOL.

>

>

>

>

>

> I suppose the whole thing comes down to a theory of origins. If

you subscribe to the theory of evolution then I suppose it is very

possible that some beings might evolve without a moral compass. If

you subscribe to a religious explanation for the universe then saying

someone has no conscience becomes a moral dilemma in and of its self

depending on which of the many religious views you hold to.

>

>

>

> Jennie, I found your post helpful and insightful but when I got

to the end, and read the part I copied here... I'm not going to touch

this with a ten foot pole.... Janet ZEE almost offended

>

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> --------------------------------------------------------------------

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> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.19/1258 - Release Date:

2/4/2008 10:10 AM

>

[Guest guest]

Oh great! Now I’m hungry!  Off to wal-mart I go, we’re out of

jelly.

-:¦:-

(¯`'•.¸(¯`a Kathleen Simpson´¯)¸.•'´¯)-:¦:-

From:

aspires-relationships

[mailto:aspires-relationships ] On Behalf Of Janet

Zimmerman

Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 10:07 PM

To: aspires-relationships

Subject: Re: We " speak " a different

" emotional " language.

If we had an e-fight , it would be us vrs them now wouldn't it?

;-) Janet ZEE hoping not to frighten anyone... I only

use my knife for spreading.......

peanut butter and jelly....

[Guest guest]

If we had an e-fight , it would be us vrs them now wouldn't it? ;-)  Janet ZEE hoping not to frighten anyone... I only use my knife for spreading.......peanut butter and jelly....I agree many religious people are like that. I grew up in a nearly a cult religion. Extreme us/them mentality. However many non religious people create a divide by the same us-them mentality. Like they (the religious) are stupid and weak versus we are intellectual and strong. Or they (the religious) are all judgmental fruitcakes. The knife cuts both ways. Jennie -don't worry folks, this isn't degenerating into a fight... Janet and I are old buddies. Right Janet? LOL A little levity does no harm.  Re: We "speak" a different "emotional" language.I suppose the whole thing comes down to a theory of origins. If you subscribe to the theory of evolution then I suppose it is very possible that some beings might evolve without a moral compass. If you subscribe to a religious explanation for the universe then saying someone has no conscience becomes a moral dilemma in and of its self depending on which of the many religious views you hold to. Jennie, I found your post helpful and insightful but when I got to the end, and read the part I copied here... I'm not going to touch this with a ten foot pole.... Janet ZEE almost offended.No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.19/1258 - Release Date: 2/4/2008 10:10 AM

[Guest guest]

pb and j on whole grain TOAST... ambrosia especially with homemade jelly or jam... any kind!  Oh great! Now I’m hungry!  Off to wal-mart I go, we’re out of jelly. -:¦:- (¯`'•.¸(¯`a Kathleen Simpson´¯)¸.•'´¯)-:¦:- From: aspires-relationships [mailto:aspires-relationships ] On Behalf Of Janet ZimmermanSent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 10:07 PMTo: aspires-relationships Subject: Re: We "speak" a different "emotional" language. If we had an e-fight , it would be us vrs them now wouldn't it? ;-)  Janet ZEE hoping not to frighten anyone... I only use my knife for spreading.......peanut butter and jelly....

[Guest guest]

An e-fight? LOL..

P.S. What has our world come to? A fight over words? LOL

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >> I suppose the whole thing comes down to a theory of origins. If

> >> you subscribe to the theory of evolution then I suppose it is

very

> >> possible that some beings might evolve without a moral compass.

If

> >> you subscribe to a religious explanation for the universe then

> >> saying someone has no conscience becomes a moral dilemma in and

of

> >> its self depending on which of the many religious views you hold

to.

> >>

> >>

> >> Jennie, I found your post helpful and insightful but when I got

to

> >> the end, and read the part I copied here... I'm not going to

touch

> >> this with a ten foot pole.... Janet ZEE almost offended

> >>

> >> .

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.19/1258 - Release

Date:

> > 2/4/2008 10:10 AM

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Order a pizza - it's much more convenient

>