Re: Aspergers and Naturism/Nudism

[Guest guest]

and Moderators, With all due respect, there are religious implications here. My faith would not let me even consider this. I cannot adequately relpy, without being able to discuss my faith. Why can't Christians reply, while others are allowed to? The playing field is not terribly level here. Claudfia wrote: Since I have been a member of Aspires, I haven't seen this topic so I am going to start a

new topic - Aspergers and naturism/nudism. I would be curious to know if any research has been done on this topic. If so, what does the research say about it? What do you think about it? Do you think people who have AS would be comfortable in an environment as such? Why or why not? I'll start first, so people don't feel like "Ok, who's going to touch this topic?" As for myself, I have been a naturist/nudist since 2003. For having AS, I find that this lifestyle helps me very much because I can be in an environment that is safe to me. I can be around other people who share the same opinions as me. I feel that nudism/naturism allows me to be on a more level playing field of sorts than in the non-naturist world. I am not judged for having AS. I can be myself. Most people I know are non-nudists, and I know that naturism/nudism is more prevaling in Europe and in more liberal parts of the world than here. I have been a

member of AANR (American Association for Nude Recreation), but am seeking to become a member of TNS (The Naturist Society) soon.I will respect people's opinions on the subject, although I may not agree with everyone's opinions. I welcome NT/NS responses as well. If you don't feel comfortable sharing your opinion here, please feel free to email me from this group and express your opinion. Just wanted to get this conversation started, since I had never seen it posted.Naturally, __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

david bailey wrote:

>

> */WD Loughman /* wrote:

> > bill said:

>

> Okay, it must happen sometimes. I have seen a few men abruptly and

> unaccountably break off conversations and take a (motivated?) leap into

> the river/pool. But places I've been - the need certainly is uncommon.

>

> - Bill, 75, AS

>

> bill you have a writing style that is knowledgable andf wise without

> sounding like you are trying to say " been there done that " perhaps

> a function of age, your age, that you really have done that.

Count on it! I really have.

No lies or sly half-truths from me on this List. Or anywhere else

either.

That said, I have lived a full, rich, varied life. Not so much in

the last 20 years or so; and probably it will be even less so in the

future. I'm slowing down, as we all must. My stories increasingly are

of past events.

Annoying, that! Agreeing with the dying Saroyan: " ...I thought an

exception might be made in my case. "

> everything from the number of legs on a fruit fly to naturism.

> it makes very interesting reading, even things i have no interest in.

> when a man abruply and unaccountable takes a leap into a nearby

> river at a nudist camp.....this conjures up hilarious images,

> because we all " know " why the hell he has chosen to do same, yet you

> allow the reader to make up their own mind, paint the picture and

> let them see what they chose to see after reading your words.

>

> perhaps there is wisdom in your words...but also your approach to

> your style of writing, suggestive, informative, knowledgable and

> very often , succintly truthfull, without the " been there done that

> " arrogance that can make digestion of words difficult.

>

> 36 m AS...appreciative for your wisdom, knowledge and subtle

> sense of humour. and realising that there is an " art " to delivering

> same.

Oh Gawd, ! <furiously BLUSHing here> But thank you just the same.

- Bill, 75, AS

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

Bill - you are full of surprises. Here's our family lore about nude beaches in Northern California. Our family had just moved from Southern to Northern California when my oldest daughter began college. As the only "local" Californian, she was asked to recommend some sights to see. Being a beach girl, she wanted to show her new college friends the gorgeous California coast, so she chose a beach as their first sight. But, she was unfamiliar with Northern California beaches. Her classmates on this trip were from France, Lebanon, and Illinois. They had no sooner set out their towels, when they discovered that the beach was a gay nude beach. As she puts it, "lots of frolicking."Daneka

> Since I have been a member of Aspires, I haven't seen this topic so I

> am going to start a new topic - Aspergers and naturism/nudism. I

> would be curious to know if any research has been done on this

> topic. If so, what does the research say about it? What do you

> think about it? Do you think people who have AS would be comfortable

> in an environment as such? Why or why not?

>

> I'll start first, so people don't feel like "Ok, who's going to touch

> this topic?" As for myself, I have been a naturist/nudist since

> 2003. For having AS, I find that this lifestyle helps me very much

> because I can be in an environment that is safe to me. I can be

> around other people who share the same opinions as me. I feel that

> nudism/naturism allows me to be on a more level playing field of

> sorts than in the non-naturist world. I am not judged for having

> AS. I can be myself. Most people I know are non-nudists, and I know

> that naturism/nudism is more prevaling in Europe and in more liberal

> parts of the world than here. I have been a member of AANR (American

> Association for Nude Recreation), but am seeking to become a member

> of TNS (The Naturist Society) soon.

[ snip ]

, I was a TNS member for several decades.

I was introduced to "naturism" in my very late teens and early 20s, by

my then girlfriend when I was in the US Army in Germany. There was an

officially sanctioned "nude beach" (= "clothing optional") on the Rhine

at Rhinestetten, near Karlsruhe where I was stationed.

After mustering out, I sought out "clothing optional" places in the

San Francisco Bay Area (my home) where the practice was "okay". For the

next 40-odd years I enjoyed the life style, intermittently, when and

where I could. My first wife accompanied me usually. After a very few

tries, my present wife has not; though she's never minded my occasional

solo foray.

After awhile local religious groups and "anti-hippie" rednecks made

life pretty uncomfortable for us. There were lawsuits and court cases

and new laws passed (sometimes overturned).

Some of us took our enjoyment to more distant, but more secure, spots

in the deserts of southwestern Nevada and Arizona. For *years* "The

Community" has maintained a number of beautiful spots out there. Still

today visitors to those "secret" places usually aren't bothered much.

It always was easier and more secure, if more expensive, to patronize

the various private outdoor Clubs and Camps, locally and all across the

continent. Many are quite large, both in area and membership, and often

nicely appointed.

Unfortunately, *now* almost all do not permit entry (nor membership!)

to "single" men, or married men unaccompanied by wives. So I've not

participated in group naturism for nearly 20 years.

But when off back-packing or car-camping in wilderness areas, I do

*still* enjoy sitting atop a big rock, clothed only by a sunbeam,

pondering human nature and the far nicer natural beauty all around me.

Yes, , one does meet interesting people!

- Bill, 75, AS; ..."who knew?", we both said, meeting accidentally. ..

--

WD "Bill" Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home. earthlink. net/~wdloughman/ wdl.htm

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Daneka Wheeler wrote:

> Bill - you are full of surprises.

> Here's our family lore about nude beaches in Northern California. Our

> family had just moved from Southern to Northern California when my

> oldest daughter began college. As the only " local " Californian, she was

> asked to recommend some sights to see. Being a beach girl, she wanted

> to show her new college friends the gorgeous California coast, so she

> chose a beach as their first sight. But, she was unfamiliar with

> Northern California beaches. Her classmates on this trip were from

> France, Lebanon, and Illinois. They had no sooner set out their towels,

> when they discovered that the beach was a gay nude beach. As she puts

> it, " lots of frolicking. "

But, but... The rest of the story? Did they stand their ground and

stay, to enjoy the beach (or whatever)? Any repercussions?

- Bill

>

>

> > Since I have been a member of Aspires, I haven't seen this topic so I

> > am going to start a new topic - Aspergers and naturism/nudism.

[ snip ]

> > I'll start first, so people don't feel like " Ok, who's going to touch

> > this topic? " As for myself, I have been a naturist/nudist since

> > 2003.

[ snip ]

> > I have been a member of AANR (American

> > Association for Nude Recreation), but am seeking to become a member

> > of TNS (The Naturist Society) soon.

> [ snip ]

>

> , I was a TNS member for several decades.

>

> I was introduced to " naturism " in my very late teens and early 20s, by

> my then girlfriend when I was in the US Army in Germany.

[ snip ]

- Bill, 75, AS

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

Again, just wanted input from others on the topic. I know that not

everyone will agree with the idea or anything else about it. Much

like my idea of watching people interact with one another in a mall

area or elsewhere and seeing what is being expressed.

> >

> > Since I have been a member of Aspires, I haven't seen this topic

so I

> > am going to start a new topic - Aspergers and naturism/nudism. I

> > would be curious to know if any research has been done on this

> > topic. If so, what does the research say about it? What do you

> > think about it? Do you think people who have AS would be

comfortable

> > in an environment as such? Why or why not?

> >

> > I'll start first, so people don't feel like " Ok, who's going to

touch

> > this topic? " As for myself, I have been a naturist/nudist since

> > 2003. For having AS, I find that this lifestyle helps me very much

> > because I can be in an environment that is safe to me. I can be

> > around other people who share the same opinions as me. I feel that

> > nudism/naturism allows me to be on a more level playing field of

> > sorts than in the non-naturist world. I am not judged for having

> > AS. I can be myself. Most people I know are non-nudists, and I

know

> > that naturism/nudism is more prevaling in Europe and in more

liberal

> > parts of the world than here. I have been a member of AANR

(American

> > Association for Nude Recreation), but am seeking to become a

member

> > of TNS (The Naturist Society) soon.

> >

> > I will respect people's opinions on the subject, although I may

not

> > agree with everyone's opinions. I welcome NT/NS responses as well.

> > If you don't feel comfortable sharing your opinion here, please

feel

> > free to email me from this group and express your opinion.

> >

> > Just wanted to get this conversation started, since I had never

seen

> > it posted.

> >

> > Naturally,

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Helen. I would discuss things like this very tastefully.

I would never want to think otherwise. I have my own experiences,

and would be glad to share those through email. I don't want to

offend anyone.

> >Since I have been a member of Aspires, I haven't seen this topic

so I

> >am going to start a new topic - Aspergers and naturism/nudism. I

> >would be curious to know if any research has been done on this

> >topic. If so, what does the research say about it? What do you

> >think about it? Do you think people who have AS would be

comfortable

> >in an environment as such? Why or why not?

> >I'll start first, so people don't feel like " Ok, who's going to

touch

> >this topic? " As for myself, I have been a naturist/nudist since

> >2003. For having AS, I find that this lifestyle helps me very much

> >because I can be in an environment that is safe to me. I can be

> >around other people who share the same opinions as me. I feel that

> >nudism/naturism allows me to be on a more level playing field of

> >sorts than in the non-naturist world. I am not judged for having

> >AS. I can be myself. Most people I know are non-nudists, and I know

> >that naturism/nudism is more prevaling in Europe and in more

liberal

> >parts of the world than here. I have been a member of AANR

(American

> >Association for Nude Recreation), but am seeking to become a member

> >of TNS (The Naturist Society) soon.

> >I will respect people's opinions on the subject, although I may not

> >agree with everyone's opinions. I welcome NT/NS responses as well.

> >If you don't feel comfortable sharing your opinion here, please

feel

> >free to email me from this group and express your opinion.

> >Just wanted to get this conversation started, since I had never

seen

> >it posted.

> >Naturally,

>

[Guest guest]

I don't see it having anything to do with religion either. Thanks

for sharing your experiences, .

>

> Greetings:

>

> I would agree with Helen, I saw nothing wrong with s post. It

is a lifestyle for some and has nothing to do with religion. My

personal opinion is colored by my experience. When I was dancing

professionally and living in Reno, Neveda/USA, we were not allowed to

get tan marks. There was a nude beach in North Shore, Lake Tahoe

that a lot of " show kids " and Casino folks went to. It was a

private cove that you had to hike a 1/2 down to. It was beautiful.

The first time I went and we were not totally nude, was hard for me

and I was glad I had these BIG sun glasses on. lol It is an

experience and I WAS uncomfortable. But, after a few times you don't

even realize people are nude. It was just a beautiful private cove.

When Larry (AS) and I were dating he came with me a few times and it

never bothered him. It was strickly adults from the area and no

children and if you work in Casinos you are use to half clothed

people from the show rooms, so maybe that made a difference???? That

summer was my only experience. It attracted some really nice and

interesting people.

>

> Religion has always been allowed when you talk about your faith and

how it has affected your life. We need to stay away from

preaching " our " way is the " only " way. That is when it offends

others. We are a world of mixed faith. There was a ex-member who

lives by me that has had a very difficult time with her AS spouse and

says her faith has kept her going. She is a strong believer. She

puts her faith in God.

>

> I told this story years ago: I took my kids to a magic show and

the magician kept saying, I need to disclose that there is a trick in

the second half of the show that might offend some and you might want

to leave for that part. At the intermission, I saw the above

mentioned friend with her family who was there with members from her

church as they helped sponsor the event. It was not till the

intermission and I saw his books that he was selling along with magic

tricks and stuff for kids that I realized what he was referring to.

He was a Christian minister as well.

>

> After the trick, he preached for about 15 mins.. My kids didn't

mind and said, " wait till we tell Dad, " as he was suppose to take

them and had to work at the last moment. lol Larry hates religion

of any kind but after said, he would of been OK and jut stepped

outside for that part. The show was really GOOD!!!!

>

> It is unfortunate that we as a culture can not talk religion

without offending someone. That is why it is banned on many lists

including our's in that content. I know many of different faiths and

we all find out own way to the mountain.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Audrey....

Yeah, I don't like the feel of clothing. I can dress nicely in a

tux, dress shoes, and the whole nine yards. This is how I have been

my entire life seemingly (even as a small child). Like anything else

in life, we all must come to our own conclusions of what we are

comfortable with and such, and respect those who might feel

differently. This is why there are so many wars and such in this

world.

> > Since I have been a member of Aspires, I haven't seen

this

> topic so I

> > am going to start a new topic - Aspergers and naturism/nudism. I

> > would be curious to know if any research has been done on this

> > topic. If so, what does the research say about it? What do you

> > think about it? Do you think people who have AS would be

comfortable

> > in an environment as such? Why or why not?

> >

> > I'll start first, so people don't feel like " Ok, who's going to

touch

> > this topic? " As for myself, I have been a naturist/nudist since

> > 2003. For having AS, I find that this lifestyle helps me very

much

> > because I can be in an environment that is safe to me. I can be

> > around other people who share the same opinions as me. I feel

that

> > nudism/naturism allows me to be on a more level playing field of

> > sorts than in the non-naturist world. I am not judged for having

> > AS. I can be myself. Most people I know are non-nudists, and I

know

> > that naturism/nudism is more prevaling in Europe and in more

liberal

> > parts of the world than here. I have been a member of AANR

(American

> > Association for Nude Recreation), but am seeking to become a

member

> > of TNS (The Naturist Society) soon.

> >

> > I will respect people's opinions on the subject, although I may

not

> > agree with everyone's opinions. I welcome NT/NS responses as

well.

> > If you don't feel comfortable sharing your opinion here, please

feel

> > free to email me from this group and express your opinion.

> >

> > Just wanted to get this conversation started, since I had never

seen

> > it posted.

> >

> > Naturally,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks for sharing your opinion, Bill. I find that the area between

NW Washington state coast on down to California tends to be quite

more liberal about naturism and such things. I know of this one

woman who used to have a group that went to San Onofre beach in CA

and she moved out here to TN awhile back. She's mentioned to me

about her experiences there, and I was proud of her for doing what

she did. She considers herself very religious, but respects those

who are atheists and the like as well. She's far from the skinniest

woman either. Very far from it.

> > Since I have been a member of Aspires, I haven't seen this topic

so I

> > am going to start a new topic - Aspergers and naturism/nudism. I

> > would be curious to know if any research has been done on this

> > topic. If so, what does the research say about it? What do you

> > think about it? Do you think people who have AS would be

comfortable

> > in an environment as such? Why or why not?

> >

> > I'll start first, so people don't feel like " Ok, who's going to

touch

> > this topic? " As for myself, I have been a naturist/nudist since

> > 2003. For having AS, I find that this lifestyle helps me very

much

> > because I can be in an environment that is safe to me. I can be

> > around other people who share the same opinions as me. I feel

that

> > nudism/naturism allows me to be on a more level playing field of

> > sorts than in the non-naturist world. I am not judged for having

> > AS. I can be myself. Most people I know are non-nudists, and I

know

> > that naturism/nudism is more prevaling in Europe and in more

liberal

> > parts of the world than here. I have been a member of AANR

(American

> > Association for Nude Recreation), but am seeking to become a

member

> > of TNS (The Naturist Society) soon.

> [ snip ]

>

> , I was a TNS member for several decades.

>

> I was introduced to " naturism " in my very late teens and early 20s,

by

> my then girlfriend when I was in the US Army in Germany. There was

an

> officially sanctioned " nude beach " (= " clothing optional " ) on the

Rhine

> at Rhinestetten, near Karlsruhe where I was stationed.

> After mustering out, I sought out " clothing optional " places in

the

> San Francisco Bay Area (my home) where the practice was " okay " .

For the

> next 40-odd years I enjoyed the life style, intermittently, when

and

> where I could. My first wife accompanied me usually. After a very

few

> tries, my present wife has not; though she's never minded my

occasional

> solo foray.

> After awhile local religious groups and " anti-hippie " rednecks

made

> life pretty uncomfortable for us. There were lawsuits and court

cases

> and new laws passed (sometimes overturned).

> Some of us took our enjoyment to more distant, but more secure,

spots

> in the deserts of southwestern Nevada and Arizona. For

*years* " The

> Community " has maintained a number of beautiful spots out there.

Still

> today visitors to those " secret " places usually aren't bothered

much.

> It always was easier and more secure, if more expensive, to

patronize

> the various private outdoor Clubs and Camps, locally and all across

the

> continent. Many are quite large, both in area and membership, and

often

> nicely appointed.

> Unfortunately, *now* almost all do not permit entry (nor

membership!)

> to " single " men, or married men unaccompanied by wives. So I've

not

> participated in group naturism for nearly 20 years.

> But when off back-packing or car-camping in wilderness areas, I

do

> *still* enjoy sitting atop a big rock, clothed only by a sunbeam,

> pondering human nature and the far nicer natural beauty all around

me.

>

> Yes, , one does meet interesting people!

>

> - Bill, 75, AS; ... " who knew? " , we both said, meeting

accidentally...

>

> --

> WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

> http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

>

[Guest guest]

Being in a nude setting is very comfortable to me. I don't feel like

anyone judges me for having AS or anything else. I don't stare at

women's body parts or anything because I don't notice what's going on

around me, except a bunch of people who are enjoying socializing with

others nude in a swimming pool, a beach, or other such events. I

feel when I am in a nude setting, the cares of the world disappear.

I can be me. I have met people from all walks of life in nudist

settings. Doesn't make me any better than anyone else, or anyone

else any better than me.

> > Hi ,

> >

> > Everything you said here was totally appropriate, no worries

there.

> [ snip ]

>

> > As for the last part of your post, how males react to females who

are

> > in a very air conditioned state, I can't speak to that one, LOL.

> > Maybe our male members can respond. My guess is you are

a " regular "

> > at " bare bum beach " it quickly becomes sort of like, " if you've

seen

> > one, you've seen 'em all. " It seems to me that it's only when

> > something is " forbidden " that it becomes a big deal.....

> > - Helen

>

> Yes.

>

> Nudity, in a " naturist " setting, very quickly becomes - well -

Natural.

> Normal. People just no longer really notice. Really.

> The " problem " delicately alluded to with males just isn't; both

in my

> own experience and in observation of others.

>

> That surprises a *LOT* of men. Women too, I suppose.

> A well-experienced male friend, new to the scene, once asked me

if

> there might be something wrong: " When I'm there [the beach] ...it,

uh,

> just... er... *doesn't happen*! What's wrong? " Me: Nothing.

>

> Okay, it must happen sometimes. I have seen a few men abruptly and

> unaccountably break off conversations and take a (motivated?) leap

into

> the river/pool. But places I've been - the need certainly is

uncommon.

>

> - Bill, 75, AS

>

> --

> WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

> http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

>

[Guest guest]

I am jumping in here... perhaps inappropriately and my cat is tryin gto lay on my ha =nds, so hang in there while I boot her away!   I don't see what nudity has to do with Chrisitianity or Jesus.  Religious beliefs, yes.  but they are not one and the same.  I think that this is where the argumentative tone about religion (Or whatever you want to call it) always comes up on this site... people propose that their 'flavor' of Christianity is the only one and that is what is offensive, not the actual exchange of ideas about the subject.   So it is forbidden.   To bad I say.  And to further muddy the waters, I am very envious of those who are not self conscious about being seen in their birthday suits.  I have extreme anxiety about this and I hate it.  I don't look on this as a virtue but as a handicap.  It has nothing to do with my spiritual beliefs.  jkz always clothed  Hi, correct me if I am wrong... I think what was saying was that she feels she cannot honestly answer the questions asked without 'getting in trouble' on the list because of her own 'lifestyle'. Her lifestyle is Christian so her answer would come from that perspective and she feels she her perspective is not allowed. I have often struggled with this same concept. And neither nor myself are browbeaters. <g> We just don't know where the line IS. We have a lifestyle, we have a belief but we feel (correctly or incorrectly I don't know) like we cannot respond to things from our lifestyle perspective which happens to be a belief in Jesus Christ. When we became Christians we learned to see virtually everything from a different perspective, it is extremely difficult to know what is ok to say and what isn't. This has been an ongoing problem for me at least since I joined the 'cyber world'. I don't know where the boundaries are. I see other folks being allowed to say things and talk about things but feel like the topic of religion is particularly forbidden. This is very confusing since my 'religion' (hate that word BTW) is who I am. I am not 'me' seperate from my religious beliefs. I am defined by my religious (hate that word!) beliefs. Do you understand our difficulty... why we struggle with this? The NT folk who are Christian don't appear to struggle with this... so maybe this is a TOM thing? Don't know but I would like further discussion on this if possible so I could somehow get a clear understanding of where the 'line' IS. Thanks, Jennie AS     Aspergers and Naturism/NudismGreetings: I would agree with Helen, I saw nothing wrong with s post.  It is a lifestyle for some and has nothing to do with religion.  My personal opinion is colored by my experience.  When I was dancing professionally and living in Reno, Neveda/USA, we were not allowed to get tan marks.  There was a nude beach in North Shore, Lake Tahoe that a lot of "show kids"  and Casino folks went to.  It was a private cove that you had to hike a 1/2 down to.  It was beautiful.  The first time I went and we were not totally nude, was hard for me and I was glad I had these BIG sun glasses on.  lol  It is an experience and I WAS uncomfortable.  But, after a few times you don't even realize people are nude.  It was just a beautiful private cove.  When Larry (AS) and I were dating he came with me a few times and it never bothered him.  It was strickly adults from the area and no children and if you work in Casinos you are use to half clothed people from the show rooms, so maybe that made a difference????  That summer was my only experience.  It attracted some really nice and interesting people.  Religion has always been allowed when you talk about your faith and how it has affected your life.  We need to stay away from preaching "our" way is the "only" way.  That is when it offends others.  We are a world of mixed faith.  There was a ex-member who lives by me that has had a very difficult time with her AS spouse and says her faith has kept her going.  She is a strong believer.  She puts her faith in God.  I told this story years ago:  I took my kids to a magic show and the magician kept saying, I need to disclose that there is a trick in the second half of the show that might offend some and you might want to leave for that part.  At the intermission, I saw the above mentioned friend with her family who was there with members from her church as they helped sponsor the event.  It was not till the intermission and I saw his books that he was selling along with magic tricks and stuff for kids that I realized what he was referring to.  He was a Christian minister as well.  After the trick, he preached for about 15 mins..  My kids didn't mind and said, "wait till we tell Dad," as he was suppose to take them and had to work at the last moment.  lol  Larry hates religion of any kind but after said, he would of been OK and jut stepped outside for that part.  The show was really GOOD!!!! It is unfortunate that we as a culture can not talk religion without offending someone.  That is why it is banned on many lists including our's in that content.  I know many of different faiths and we all find out own way to the mountain.  <03e201c89cca$41ac8010$0200a8c0>No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.10/1367 - Release Date: 4/9/2008 7:10 AM